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Personally, I think Neimi is a better archer. Starts out earlier, great growths, and can promote into a mount and swords. Innes it bow-locked and not mounted and joins later. Tell me, how do you think is better?

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Innes. 

 

In a no-grind scenario, Neimi is a great chore. She has less 3 Spd at base than Eirika, the same pitiful 4 Str, and no Rapier, making it difficult to get her kills or for her to contribute at all. Artur and Lute join just one chapter later and do a much better job of being fragile 1-2 range attackers, with superior bases and targeting Res. Both of them can also heal on promotion and Lute can match Neimi's future horse.

On Eirika's route, Innes joins early. If I get Neimi to level 10 by then and promote her (reasonable), she'll have:

26 HP 11 Str 10 Skl 12 Spd 8 Lck 7 Def 8 Res

Which is all inferior to Innes's bases, who will also have 9 Con to her 6. Ranger would give her a horse and a much better 8 Con, but her stats would otherwise be quite similar. Saleh is functionally similar and joins not much later with Innes-like bases, on top of being able to heal.

If I were to keep her unpromoted in hopes of outdoing Innes eventually, I would have to do without that glorious +3 Str gained by promoting for a longer time, during which she would be just inferior to Innes.

On Ephraim's route, Innes joins much later, giving Neimi much more time when he isn't around. Nonetheless his bases are solid enough to qualify as filler.

 

But let it be stressed that Neimi is, on a no-grind run with some notion of efficiency, an investment with little payoff. Innes might not be as great at 20/20, but he has no investment to start being good, he can deal a solid chip and sometimes kill at base, with a couple levels gained along the way. Enemies in FE8 outside of a few of the later chapters- namely 19- are weak and hence super stats aren't needed. 

For a better investment on a functionally similar unpromoted unit, Lute and Artur exist. Fliers aren't that big a threat in FE8, bows aren't needed, and sadly, bows aren't effective on the Mogalls, while Artur can be as a Bishop, while still ripping apart whatever Wyvern Riders you encounter.

Edited by Interdimensional Observer

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I would say Innes, since Neimi's bases aren't too good and the investment needed for the latter to get to the level of the former is too much for the payoff.

Edited by Shadow Mir

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i think in every aspect innes is better.the above posts already covered other then that his design and character are also great.

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Innes

Neimi's better on paper, but her biggest demerits come from her starting out as an Archer with bad bases. These are the most notoriously difficult units in the series to get going. I can't think of a single game(Where this criteria applies) where any of the unpromoted Archers end up better than prepromoted Snipers.

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It can't be overstated just how much more useful bow users are when they can actually kill stuff at base. Sure, you can spend a lot of time and resources getting Neimi on Innes' level, but she really doesn't do anything unique once she actually gets there. Most certainly nothing that warrants all that work.

Edited by BrightBow

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16 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Neimi's better on paper, but her biggest demerits come from her starting out as an Archer with bad bases. These are the most notoriously difficult units in the series to get going. I can't think of a single game(Where this criteria applies) where any of the unpromoted Archers end up better than prepromoted Snipers.

Aside from this, it doesn't help that in general, the best use for archers early on is chip damage so as to allow melee units to kill enemies without needing to eat a counter. Compounding this is the fact that killing an enemy awards much more exp than chipping one, and this means unless you go out of your way to set up kills for them, archers are likely to fall behind.

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Neimi is a good contender for one of the worst units in the game. Terrible bases, 2 range lock for the longest time, and it's not like FE8 has a flier problem like FE6.

Innes base wise are alright, and he also comes with solid A rank bows, which allow him to do amazing chip and potential one rounds with a silver bow.

Shoutouts to Neimi being the only unit in FE8 to use the Orion's Bolt. Hey, it's free cash

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FE8 is so easy that neimi can get levels. 

 

i mean she just needs to pop speed a few times and maybe 1-3 points of strength and then she's ORKOing mages and 2RKOing fighters and shit. This lets me killfeed gilliam or whatever.

so she's ok.

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I never used / had to use Innes because Neimi always did her job well.
To the say truth the main reason is FE8 is a very easy game. 

Innes is ok, if you don't want to bother a level 1 archer, but he never does anything special a rised Neimi couldn't do.

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If you're playing remotely efficiently, probably Innes.  I prefer taking it slow and grinding, particularly in fe8 where there's plenty opportunity to do so, and I prefer Neimi for being able to promote to a mounted unit that can use swords.  Although honestly in most cases past early game, I end up using magic users over archers anyway.  There's just very little an archer can do that a decent magic user can't meanwhile magic users have better range, staff use after promotion (or before in the case of healers), and any unit that can promote to bishop gets a massive damage bonus against monsters which make up a lot of fe8's enemy units.

I do prefer Innes on support conversation front though, I'll admit.

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It is nice that Neimi can be a Ranger while Innes is always stuck in Sniper, but getting her there requires so much effort while Innes is at least decent out of the box.

For some reason IS has always believed that Archer is a strong class and "balanced" them by giving them awful bases, when in reality archer is a bad class and IS only ended up making them worse.

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Neimi can become a ranger, but that's about it. It's a chore to level her up without the tower

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neimi at 10/1 ranger is basically a taxi for your lord that can break walls with brave bow and longbow.

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49 minutes ago, Joe Cool said:

neimi at 10/1 ranger is basically a taxi for your lord that can break walls with brave bow and longbow.

You get both weapons at endgame so if she isn't pulling her weight when she promotes then she isn't that good of a unit. There are other far better units that can be taxis for lords. And they most likely take up a huge space of your deployment. If you're looking for someone who can be a ranger then maybe Gerik for LTC runs. Anyways, selling the Orion's Bolt is a pretty solid option as Neimi is terrible.

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5 hours ago, silveraura25 said:

You get both weapons at endgame so if she isn't pulling her weight when she promotes then she isn't that good of a unit. There are other far better units that can be taxis for lords. And they most likely take up a huge space of your deployment. If you're looking for someone who can be a ranger then maybe Gerik for LTC runs. Anyways, selling the Orion's Bolt is a pretty solid option as Neimi is terrible.

in drafts she's a solid mid-late round pick due to being early, having an uncontested promotion item, being able to get exp funneled into her, and getting a mount come midgame.

even in LTC runs without seth/franz/vanessa, she's still viably useful overall as a taxi and as someone who can longbow the eggs in that one chapter, plus being able to use the brave bow to ensure KOs on certain flying enemies.

 

 

she's not completely shitty, but fe8 has this thing where it's easily steamrolled.

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In a normal FE game i would say Innes, but if you take into account the tower of Valni then yeah Neimi is much better. You're able to give her a mount and 1 range, which is great, but if you're not using the tower than she's gonna be a pain to raise

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On 10/20/2018 at 9:14 PM, Thokk Patrol said:

in drafts she's a solid mid-late round pick due to being early, having an uncontested promotion item, being able to get exp funneled into her, and getting a mount come midgame.

drafts are heavily skewed towards early joining units so i don't think reasoning involving drafts should really be used in any context outside of drafts

On 10/20/2018 at 2:35 PM, Thokk Patrol said:

neimi at 10/1 ranger is basically a taxi for your lord that can break walls with brave bow and longbow.

she's as good of a taxi as an unpromoted cavalier. not that that's not _bad_ but it's not _good_ either since you have lots of other mounts that are better than her at doing so while taking less effort to train i.e. paladins & fliers. might be useful in a draft setting if you got fucked over and didn't get a lot of mounts, otherwise iffy at best

On 10/20/2018 at 9:14 PM, Thokk Patrol said:

even in LTC runs without seth/franz/vanessa

i also don't think LTC should be used to rate units considering that rating units under an LTC setting uses a completely different criteria to judge a unit's performance (i.e. how many turns they save) than a regular playthrough (which is holistic and takes into account things like bases availability and all that)

for example lilina is pretty much worthless in any regular playthrough but is good in LTC for the bolting crits

On 10/20/2018 at 9:14 PM, Thokk Patrol said:

longbow the eggs in that one chapter

i don't think i've seen a strat that uses longbow in the egg map

On 10/20/2018 at 9:14 PM, Thokk Patrol said:

plus being able to use the brave bow to ensure KOs on certain flying enemies

by the time you get brave bow, the only flying enemies remaining in the game are gar/deathgoyles and they already get utterly smashed by the divine weapons meaning this utility is completely useless. the divine weapons have 30 uses each anyway which is more than enough for the rest of the game after you get them


as for the thread question, innes is miles ahead of neimi since he actually has stats to work with. the benchmarks for fe8 isn't high but innes takes zero effort to get there while neimi only ends up maybe marginally better than innes once trained out of her shitty archer phase because she gets a horse. but between zero investment and getting a 7 mov horse i'll pick the zero investment any day, i have 8 mov units to taxi my lords to the seize point

 

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34 minutes ago, jeigansucksexp said:

drafts are heavily skewed towards early joining units so i don't think reasoning involving drafts should really be used in any context outside of drafts

she's as good of a taxi as an unpromoted cavalier. not that that's not _bad_ but it's not _good_ either since you have lots of other mounts that are better than her at doing so while taking less effort to train i.e. paladins & fliers. might be useful in a draft setting if you got fucked over and didn't get a lot of mounts, otherwise iffy at best

i also don't think LTC should be used to rate units considering that rating units under an LTC setting uses a completely different criteria to judge a unit's performance (i.e. how many turns they save) than a regular playthrough (which is holistic and takes into account things like bases availability and all that)

for example lilina is pretty much worthless in any regular playthrough but is good in LTC for the bolting crits

i don't think i've seen a strat that uses longbow in the egg map

by the time you get brave bow, the only flying enemies remaining in the game are gar/deathgoyles and they already get utterly smashed by the divine weapons meaning this utility is completely useless. the divine weapons have 30 uses each anyway which is more than enough for the rest of the game after you get them


as for the thread question, innes is miles ahead of neimi since he actually has stats to work with. the benchmarks for fe8 isn't high but innes takes zero effort to get there while neimi only ends up maybe marginally better than innes once trained out of her shitty archer phase because she gets a horse. but between zero investment and getting a 7 mov horse i'll pick the zero investment any day, i have 8 mov units to taxi my lords to the seize point

 

i mean sure, Innes is essentially a no-effort Nidhogg user and all.

It's just that fe8's bar is so incredibly low. 

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I definitely think that if you plan on grinding, go Neimi all the way. That 7 move is too good to pass up (+swords!). But without grinding, I way prefer Innes, pretty much entirely because I don't want to spend limited experience points on Neimi when I could be leveling up Franz to Seth-tier.

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Neimi is my favorite FE character, so I’m probably biased when I say she’s better. Still, if Neimi dies (God forbid!), Innes is the only logical candidate for the legendary bow.

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2 hours ago, Thokk Patrol said:

the best bow user is clearly Warrior!Ross.

But why give up Berserker!Ross for a warrior when Berserker is better in every conceivable manner?

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10 minutes ago, DarthR0xas said:

But why give up Berserker!Ross for a warrior when Berserker is better in every conceivable manner?

 

Ocean Seal's a bitch.

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