poll Should the weapon triangle return?

[anikom15]

Personally, I think the weapon triangle can be a distraction over other tactical considerations, like positioning and terrain, and after playing SoV I think it's definitely possible to do without the weapon triangle completely. The main problem with getting rid of it, however, is that it can make the game more difficult for new players. It's easy to get a hang of the weapon triangle whereas other tactics require a stronger intuition.

What do you all hope to see? Do you want to keep the unified triangle from Fates? or a return to a more traditional triangle where magic and bows are neutral?

[Dragoncat]

Yes! I want a weapon triangle and trinity of magic.

[DisobeyedCargo]

But the weapon triangle never went away. Echoes didn’t have it cause it was a remake of Gaiden and Gaiden didn’t have it.

[anikom15]

2 minutes ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

But the weapon triangle never went away. Echoes didn’t have it cause it was a remake of Gaiden and Gaiden didn’t have it.

Shadow Dragon and New Mystery had it though, while the originals did not.

[DisobeyedCargo]

6 minutes ago, anikom15 said:

Shadow Dragon and New Mystery had it though, while the originals did not.

Echoes had no axe users except for brigands so swords would like always be at a disadvantage 

 

meanwhile SD and NM had all three weapons scattered around the place 

[Slumber]

14 minutes ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

Echoes had no axe users except for brigands so swords would like always be at a disadvantage 

 

meanwhile SD and NM had all three weapons scattered around the place 

There's an argument to be made that the inclusion of the WT actually made SD a worse game, since the latter half of the game is so heavily sword and lance based, with very few axes on the enemy side. It ended up making the game super unbalanced later on.

Anyway, yes. There should be WT. It's a core concept of the series, and quite frankly, the games become more monotonous without having to factor it in. I really don't consider SoV a "strategy" game for a number of reasons, the lack of consideration going into the combat being one of them. WT plays into that a bit, as it ends up just being "Just toss out your strongest units and watch out for magic".

Without the WT, I feel like Fire Emblem would have to fundamentally change its identity to still hold onto the idea that they're strategy games.

Edited October 20, 2018 by Slumber

[Shadow Mir]

I'm kinda expecting the weapon triangle to show up, to be honest. But I'm not expecting the RGB triangle from Fates unless daggers turn out to not be a one-off idea, and in general, the trinity of magic tends to be an afterthought. Thus, I would rather have the WT encompass swords, lances and axes only.

[Von Ithipathachai]

2 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

I'm kinda expecting the weapon triangle to show up, to be honest. But I'm not expecting the RGB triangle from Fates unless daggers turn out to not be a one-off idea, and in general, the trinity of magic tends to be an afterthought.

...Or they could just as easily have only a Swords/Lances/Axes triangle with Bows and Daggers being Triangle-neutral, like they did in the Tellius games and Heroes (initially).

[DarthR0xas]

Yeah, the weapon triangle should return. Without it, the game either becomes "Oh my god I can't hit or beat these dudes", or "Oh my god this is so boring, my one guy is taking all of these guys out no problem", as shown with the hardest difficulty of Radiant Dawn. As for the magic triangle, I always found it neat but something I could ignore, since magic normally has higher hit rates, or at least it's users never had any trouble hitting (Unless it's dark against light). Don't do what Fates did, bows and daggers really should just stay out of the triangle since they're mainly supposed to be for chip damage, and magic deserves it's own triangle

[Ivy Wife Supremacy]

It's obvious it's in at least for Swords-Lances-Axes. Bows and possible return of daggers should stay the neutral types. The MT could come back but I'm doubtful I'd be surprised if it does!

Edited October 20, 2018 by Regal Edelgard Axe Master

[RexBolt]

41 minutes ago, DarthR0xas said:

Yeah, the weapon triangle should return. Without it, the game either becomes "Oh my god I can't hit or beat these dudes", or "Oh my god this is so boring, my one guy is taking all of these guys out no problem", as shown with the hardest difficulty of Radiant Dawn. As for the magic triangle, I always found it neat but something I could ignore, since magic normally has higher hit rates, or at least it's users never had any trouble hitting (Unless it's dark against light). Don't do what Fates did, bows and daggers really should just stay out of the triangle since they're mainly supposed to be for chip damage, and magic deserves it's own triangle

In a way i want it to be like Fates/Heroes did in 2 unified triangle. but not with bows and daggers in it. 

I want the secondary part of the triangle to be the magic one, Anima or Trinity doesn't matter, so the type of magic you use against even fighters matter.

Daggers for real should just be the ranged sword options, never got very into them being their own thing even when they are useful.

Bows for sure outside the triangle. I'm currently playing Fates and using plenty of bows because i personaly love them, even if i'm hating how they were used as the inferior ranged weapon here. Being effective against fliers isn't a plus worth giving up fighting at 1 range without a special weapon, it just makes you look inferior.

[YingofDarkness]

I think the weapon triangle is an easy way to get new or less experienced players thinking about their strategy's early on. That having been said I'd prefer if they only stick to the sword-axe-lance triangle.

[Arcphoenix]

Honestly, I'm split on this one as to whether or not it should return. I'm used to traditionally having the triangle, but it felt somewhat refreshing to not even need to be concerned with it in Echoes.

 

I prefer having the weapons triangle separated from ranged weapons and for the trinity of magic to return. Daggers/Knives and Bows would stay outside the triangle

[Florete]

It never really left, it just wasn't in SoV.

And it's not going away.

[AnonymousSpeed]

Probably not. It helps weapons which are otherwise similar feel more distinct, but I don't think it offers anything that more distinct weapon types couldn't.

I mean, as much as I like axes I admit that they're functionally lances with slight statistical differences, while the arsenal of swords and lances at least used to be vastly different. Bows and magic obviously serve their own distinct functions.

19 minutes ago, RexBolt said:

I want the secondary part of the triangle to be the magic one, Anima or Trinity doesn't matter, so the type of magic you use against even fighters matter.

I'd like to second this part. We know it will come back, and since it will it should be in the most interesting and impactful form possible. I would actually argue that bows and knives (if the latter returns) should be a part of the weapon triangle because of that, though.

All that being said I don't mind it, I just could leave it and it might result in an overall more elegant core.

[Interdimensional Observer]

In all likelihood it'd return, but I'm not one of those people who think it is absolutely necessary. There are ways other than rock-paper-scissors to make multiple weapons types each in their own way valuable I think. IS wouldn't know, because IS hasn't tried pursuing alternatives, but they always could explore them.

 

[RexBolt]

54 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

I'd like to second this part. We know it will come back, and since it will it should be in the most interesting and impactful form possible. I would actually argue that bows and knives (if the latter returns) should be a part of the weapon triangle because of that, though.

All that being said I don't mind it, I just could leave it and it might result in an overall more elegant core.

Daggers and bows may work inside a solid triangle core, if we presume that Bows now can attack at 1-range. But there a problem with the third side of this triangle.

I don't the way Tomes were used as this third site in Fates, in fact the ranged side of the Fates-triangle feels super unbalanced, those weapons have specific characteristics and strategic potential, but are locked in an arbitrary system made to diversify axes/swords/lances and sometimes magic. 

Even if we find a third side for these two, with let's say beaststones, we could be in danger of diminishing these weapons utility.

What do you think about this? Do non-magical ranged really have more to gain being part of this triangle core?

[AnonymousSpeed]

8 minutes ago, RexBolt said:

What do you think about this? Do non-magical ranged really have more to gain being part of this triangle core?

Not any more than axes do, to be honest.

I'd actually argue that, if the weapon triangle makes you reconsider a strategy you would otherwise go with, then it's serving the best function it possibly can.

[smgrinus]

Fire Emblem doesn't really feel like Fire Emblem without the various weapon triangles mechanic in conjunction with other systems. I really wouldn't mind seeing biorhythm return with the unit pairing from Awakening added. And how about adding a day/night weather cycles that affect stats. I am glad durability is coming back for Houses. Echoes without weapon triangles and durability on weapons made the game somewhat dull.

[Quackra]

The weapon triangle honestly was a good idea when it was made and it should come back for three houses. Though biorhythm would be something good to see return and expanded on.

[Mau]

Yes, please let weapon triangle return, the biggest reason I've never finished Echoes is because I thought the battles were very boring (and also a lot harder) without it. I don't really care which kind of triangle returns though, as long as there some sort of traingle(s) going on.

[𝐅𝐞𝐧𝐫𝐢𝐞𝐥]

11 hours ago, anikom15 said:

What do you all hope to see? Do you want to keep the unified triangle from Fates? or a return to a more traditional triangle where magic and bows are neutral?

i would rather not have the weapon triangle again.

i never really liked the rock-paper-scissor mechanic, and usually in late-game chapters of early FE titles the triangle mechanic itself becomes pretty much useless when everyone is boosted to the max, to the point it becomes irrelevant.

it mattered mostly in Awakening/Fates, since you could stack skills for massive evasion bonuses against certain weapons, but that was outright broken to me. just my opinion anyway.

 

however, i would like to see the weapon weight mechanic coming back.

that would make way more sense to me if a unit's evasion was influenced by that, and it would still mantain its tactical use against specific classes.

the elemental magic triangle could come back as well, as long as it makes sense( example: fire is weak to water, but is resistant to wind ) and gives extra defense rather than evasion.

[edit] or even better, rather than a magic triangle, having a whole new array of magic elements with new mechanics.

Edited October 21, 2018 by Fenreir

[Jotari]

I'd rather vote for the unified Heroes version, rather than the unified Fates version. That is to say magic and physical weapons combined, but daggers and bows etc still lying outside of it (and yeah, I know Heroes has some coloured bows and daggers, a decision I don't particularly like).

Edited October 21, 2018 by Jotari

[tektra]

I like the weapon triangle as a mechanic and prefer separate triangles for weapons and magic, but it'd be nice to see it rebalanced so that it actually matters through the game and also so that axe users aren't at such a disadvantage tactically versus sword and lance users, in the sense of "How useful is this unit for an entire map".  Not a fan of bows being stuck in the triangle, there's at least some reasoning behind the weapon and magic triangles but there's no reason for bows to be involved and archers are already bad enough.  No need to make them even worse by giving them a disadvantage against certain weapons.

[redlight]

I would like it to return, but to not have it on the highest difficulty