Jump to content

Should the weapon triangle return?


anikom15
 Share

Weapon Triangle Poll  

108 members have voted

  1. 1. Should the weapon triangle return?

    • Yes
      96
    • No
      12
  2. 2. What kind of weapon triangle would you most prefer?

    • Swords, lances, axes only
      13
    • Separate SLA and magic triangles
      75
    • Unified RBG triangle (Fates)
      18
    • Magic only
      2


Recommended Posts

I like the weapon triangle. The fact that the axe has the advantage over lances and a lot of enemies are usually lance-wielders is a part of what makes axe-wielding classes useful. 

Archers should be outside the triangle.

Considering light magic has low power and I want light magic to return, I would like to see the triangle return for magic so that light magic has the advantage over dark magic. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 77
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I voted for it to return, but in truth I don't really care either way. I was fine with it being absent in Shadows of Valentia and the original Mystery of the Emblem, as it basically meant that both you and your enemy were on pretty even terms with hit rates, which was an interesting scenario to deal with. However, the weapon triangle has been a series staple for a long time now, and it's worked out well enough that there isn't much of a reason to remove it. My only real request would be to add more axes and lances, as swords tend to get more variations than either of those two in pretty much every game in the series. Daggers and bows still shouldn't be involved in the weapon triangle, though.

I voted for the magic triangle to return, but only if they diversify each magic type so they're distinct and unique from each other. It wasn't exactly pointless, but from the little I played of the GBA games, there wasn't much to differentiate the magic types outside of name and some minor stat differences. I'd like them to get creative with it, and not just have it be "there".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I fully want the triangle in the game. I liked the weapon ones and also the light-dark-anima ones from the GBA games. I didn't like Tellius where it had three different types on anima magic and then light and dark on top of that (if I remember correctly). It became a bit too much. Keep it simple.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Cute Chao said:

I fully want the triangle in the game. I liked the weapon ones and also the light-dark-anima ones from the GBA games. I didn't like Tellius where it had three different types on anima magic and then light and dark on top of that (if I remember correctly). It became a bit too much. Keep it simple.

Bold: That was in Radiant Dawn only (Part of Radiance only had the three anima types and light, which was not in the triangle). Speaking of, that one was the game that convinced me the magic triangle was useless and just being tacked on - why the hell were there practically no dark users??? The fact that mages were able to use all three anima types in those games gave birth to another issue - weapon ranks. You'd practically have to specialize in order to get to the highest magic rank.

Edited by Shadow Mir
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Bold: That was in Radiant Dawn only (Part of Radiance only had the three anima types and light, which was not in the triangle). Speaking of, that one was the game that convinced me the magic triangle was useless and just being tacked on - why the hell were there practically no dark users??? The fact that mages were able to use all three anima types in those games gave birth to another issue - weapon ranks. You'd practically have to specialize in order to get to the highest magic rank.

The lack of dark magic users was more of the fault of the game/enemy design rather than the triangle itself. The magic triangle can work well enough given a good variety of magic enemies.

tellius’s was too complex and I prefer light anima dark triangle from GBA 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

The lack of dark magic users was more of the fault of the game/enemy design rather than the triangle itself. The magic triangle can work well enough given a good variety of magic enemies.

tellius’s was too complex and I prefer light anima dark triangle from GBA 

I dunno - I've said this in other threads, but sending mages at other mages generally will get you nowhere fast, since neither side's going to do much damage to the other (UNLESS one side so thoroughly outclasses the other, at which point it means nothing). All you would accomplish is wasting time, turns, and weapon uses. The only way to see it mean something would be to have to take the WTA bonus to obscene levels, which I can safely say ain't happening with the bonus/penalty being based on the weapon rank of the advantaged side.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

I dunno - I've said this in other threads, but sending mages at other mages generally will get you nowhere fast, since neither side's going to do much damage to the other (UNLESS one side so thoroughly outclasses the other, at which point it means nothing). All you would accomplish is wasting time, turns, and weapon uses. The only way to see it mean something would be to have to take the WTA bonus to obscene levels, which I can safely say ain't happening with the bonus/penalty being based on the weapon rank of the advantaged side.

Another way other out is to have the weapon and magic triangles overlap, like in heroes. Seriously, even if Heroes doesn't know how to be consistent with their triangle, the way they laid out the basics is a perfect upgrate of Fates's triangle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

The lack of dark magic users was more of the fault of the game/enemy design rather than the triangle itself. The magic triangle can work well enough given a good variety of magic enemies.

tellius’s was too complex and I prefer light anima dark triangle from GBA 

Viewing things as distinct and separate elements isn't the way Mir views the world. In his eyes if something was bad before, then it'll always be bad.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/27/2018 at 12:39 PM, Shadow Mir said:

I dunno - I've said this in other threads, but sending mages at other mages generally will get you nowhere fast, since neither side's going to do much damage to the other (UNLESS one side so thoroughly outclasses the other, at which point it means nothing). All you would accomplish is wasting time, turns, and weapon uses. The only way to see it mean something would be to have to take the WTA bonus to obscene levels, which I can safely say ain't happening with the bonus/penalty being based on the weapon rank of the advantaged side.

So mages are mechanized infantry? and you need air support (Pegasus knights) to take them out?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, anikom15 said:

So mages are mechanized infantry? and you need air support (Pegasus knights) to take them out?

What's the analogy here? Because I have not the slightest clue what you're going on about.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
On 10/21/2018 at 2:09 PM, Hawkwing said:

My only real request would be to add more axes and lances, as swords tend to get more variations than either of those two in pretty much every game in the series.

Which could be addressed by united lances and axes into a single weapon type with the unique weapon affects available to both.

You know, I'll be the one to cut Mir a little slack and here and say that the magic triangle (at least in my experience with it in FE7, FE8, FE9, and FE10) has very rarely been very impactful or otherwise, like...cool or anything at all. If it's only for mages versus mages, it exacerbates the issue where all magic using classes tend to have similar stats and not show up very often, so not only are the bonuses rare but they don't even do much except let you more effectively dodge tank the least accurate spell type and prevent a smidgen of chip damage. I think it could work, but it would require some broader changes to magical classes which I don't expect to occur.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The weapon triangle is either terrible (where you basically just stop caring because it's too much work to hold onto a minuscle advantage) or awful (where if you're not switching out units to change their weapons on the fly, you'll be swamped by a small force of differently-armed forces). "We're keeping it around because tradition" is not a good enough excuse. It goes bad places. Don't do it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From what I've heard the only reason it didn't exist in SoV is because there were no axe units so It'll probably come back in Three Houses. 

I would personally like to see it come back because it always gave another layer of strategy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, Hekselka said:

From what I've heard the only reason it didn't exist in SoV is because there were no axe units

To this day I still consider that to be SoV's one fatal flaw;  the only dark blot on an otherwise stellar remake. Why the hell couldn't they have put axes in the game?  I mean, it takes place in the same world as Shadow Dragon and New Mystery, both of which have axe users. It literally doesn't make sense for there to be no axe users in Valentia.

Historically, axes were one of the very first tools man ever made to be weaponized; men were hacking each other to death with axes long before swords or lances were even a thing.

Edited by GamerX51
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, GamerX51 said:

To this day I still consider that to be SoV's one fatal flaw;  the only dark blot on an otherwise stellar remake. Why the hell couldn't they have put axes in the game?  I mean, it takes place in the same world as Shadow Dragon and New Mystery, both of which have axe users. It literally doesn't make sense for there to be no axe users in Valentia.

Historically, axes were one of the very first tools man ever made to be weaponized; men were hacking each other to death with axes long before swords or lances were even a thing.

How do you think they should have done this? Changed the way some classes work or added new classes?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, GamerX51 said:

To this day I still consider that to be SoV's one fatal flaw;  the only dark blot on an otherwise stellar remake. Why the hell couldn't they have put axes in the game?  I mean, it takes place in the same world as Shadow Dragon and New Mystery, both of which have axe users. It literally doesn't make sense for there to be no axe users in Valentia.

Historically, axes were one of the very first tools man ever made to be weaponized; men were hacking each other to death with axes long before swords or lances were even a thing.

Something that could be an explanation lorewise. Axes could be seen in Valentia as more of a tool than a weapon, since its design is more about cleaving wood than flesh. And those who use axes in combat would be looked down on as criminals and mercenary wannabes. 

 

 

My question is why don’t the paladins get swords as a backup. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, RexBolt said:

How do you think they should have done this? Changed the way some classes work or added new classes?

Create a new unit that is a recruitable brigand, make brigand a promotion option for villagers , give generals, barons, dread fighters and/or gold knights axes in addition to their regular weapon. Boom, fully integrated axes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Create a new unit that is a recruitable brigand, make brigand a promotion option for villagers , give generals, barons, dread fighters and/or gold knights axes in addition to their regular weapon. Boom, fully integrated axes.

Yeah, the ways to integrate axes were such a no-brainer that it's kind of baffling they didn't do it.

The game even gives you a playable lumberjack who is built like a typical axer, but he can't use axes! Why?!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Slumber said:

Yeah, the ways to integrate axes were such a no-brainer that it's kind of baffling they didn't do it.

The game even gives you a playable lumberjack who is built like a typical axer, but he can't use axes! Why?!

My only guess is to keep the general spirit of the original game, and the fact that axes seem to be seen as “villain weapons” in Japanese media. It’s kinda the same situation in Awakening where barbarians are only playable through a second seal use. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, ElectiveToast said:

My only guess is to keep the general spirit of the original game, and the fact that axes seem to be seen as “villain weapons” in Japanese media. It’s kinda the same situation in Awakening where barbarians are only playable through a second seal use. 

Yeah, but this is for the remake.

FE has built axes up as a viable good guy weapon for 25 years in between the original FE2 and SoV. We know Kaga didn't like having good guys use axes, but Kaga's been gone for almost 20 years.

Edited by Slumber
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Definitely bring them back, and have light/dark/anima return as well. And for the matter, there should be more mage-type enemies to deal with so that both triangles are made relevant.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, henrymidfields said:

Definitely bring them back, and have light/dark/anima return as well. And for the matter, there should be more mage-type enemies to deal with so that both triangles are made relevant.

Except, as stated earlier, the magic triangle has no compelling arguments for its inclusion whatsoever. Mages in general tend to have similar stats, meaning the bonuses won't even be noticeable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/11/2018 at 2:47 PM, Shadow Mir said:

Except, as stated earlier, the magic triangle has no compelling arguments for its inclusion whatsoever. Mages in general tend to have similar stats, meaning the bonuses won't even be noticeable.

You already gave your opinion once. There’s no need to spam it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...