vanguard333 Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 I like the weapon triangle. The fact that the axe has the advantage over lances and a lot of enemies are usually lance-wielders is a part of what makes axe-wielding classes useful. Archers should be outside the triangle. Considering light magic has low power and I want light magic to return, I would like to see the triangle return for magic so that light magic has the advantage over dark magic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkwing Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 I voted for it to return, but in truth I don't really care either way. I was fine with it being absent in Shadows of Valentia and the original Mystery of the Emblem, as it basically meant that both you and your enemy were on pretty even terms with hit rates, which was an interesting scenario to deal with. However, the weapon triangle has been a series staple for a long time now, and it's worked out well enough that there isn't much of a reason to remove it. My only real request would be to add more axes and lances, as swords tend to get more variations than either of those two in pretty much every game in the series. Daggers and bows still shouldn't be involved in the weapon triangle, though. I voted for the magic triangle to return, but only if they diversify each magic type so they're distinct and unique from each other. It wasn't exactly pointless, but from the little I played of the GBA games, there wasn't much to differentiate the magic types outside of name and some minor stat differences. I'd like them to get creative with it, and not just have it be "there". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cute Chao Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 I fully want the triangle in the game. I liked the weapon ones and also the light-dark-anima ones from the GBA games. I didn't like Tellius where it had three different types on anima magic and then light and dark on top of that (if I remember correctly). It became a bit too much. Keep it simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 (edited) 11 hours ago, Cute Chao said: I fully want the triangle in the game. I liked the weapon ones and also the light-dark-anima ones from the GBA games. I didn't like Tellius where it had three different types on anima magic and then light and dark on top of that (if I remember correctly). It became a bit too much. Keep it simple. Bold: That was in Radiant Dawn only (Part of Radiance only had the three anima types and light, which was not in the triangle). Speaking of, that one was the game that convinced me the magic triangle was useless and just being tacked on - why the hell were there practically no dark users??? The fact that mages were able to use all three anima types in those games gave birth to another issue - weapon ranks. You'd practically have to specialize in order to get to the highest magic rank. Edited October 27, 2018 by Shadow Mir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DisobeyedCargo Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 6 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said: Bold: That was in Radiant Dawn only (Part of Radiance only had the three anima types and light, which was not in the triangle). Speaking of, that one was the game that convinced me the magic triangle was useless and just being tacked on - why the hell were there practically no dark users??? The fact that mages were able to use all three anima types in those games gave birth to another issue - weapon ranks. You'd practically have to specialize in order to get to the highest magic rank. The lack of dark magic users was more of the fault of the game/enemy design rather than the triangle itself. The magic triangle can work well enough given a good variety of magic enemies. tellius’s was too complex and I prefer light anima dark triangle from GBA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, DisobeyedCargo said: The lack of dark magic users was more of the fault of the game/enemy design rather than the triangle itself. The magic triangle can work well enough given a good variety of magic enemies. tellius’s was too complex and I prefer light anima dark triangle from GBA I dunno - I've said this in other threads, but sending mages at other mages generally will get you nowhere fast, since neither side's going to do much damage to the other (UNLESS one side so thoroughly outclasses the other, at which point it means nothing). All you would accomplish is wasting time, turns, and weapon uses. The only way to see it mean something would be to have to take the WTA bonus to obscene levels, which I can safely say ain't happening with the bonus/penalty being based on the weapon rank of the advantaged side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexBolt Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 25 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said: I dunno - I've said this in other threads, but sending mages at other mages generally will get you nowhere fast, since neither side's going to do much damage to the other (UNLESS one side so thoroughly outclasses the other, at which point it means nothing). All you would accomplish is wasting time, turns, and weapon uses. The only way to see it mean something would be to have to take the WTA bonus to obscene levels, which I can safely say ain't happening with the bonus/penalty being based on the weapon rank of the advantaged side. Another way other out is to have the weapon and magic triangles overlap, like in heroes. Seriously, even if Heroes doesn't know how to be consistent with their triangle, the way they laid out the basics is a perfect upgrate of Fates's triangle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 8 hours ago, DisobeyedCargo said: The lack of dark magic users was more of the fault of the game/enemy design rather than the triangle itself. The magic triangle can work well enough given a good variety of magic enemies. tellius’s was too complex and I prefer light anima dark triangle from GBA Viewing things as distinct and separate elements isn't the way Mir views the world. In his eyes if something was bad before, then it'll always be bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anikom15 Posted October 28, 2018 Author Share Posted October 28, 2018 On 10/27/2018 at 12:39 PM, Shadow Mir said: I dunno - I've said this in other threads, but sending mages at other mages generally will get you nowhere fast, since neither side's going to do much damage to the other (UNLESS one side so thoroughly outclasses the other, at which point it means nothing). All you would accomplish is wasting time, turns, and weapon uses. The only way to see it mean something would be to have to take the WTA bonus to obscene levels, which I can safely say ain't happening with the bonus/penalty being based on the weapon rank of the advantaged side. So mages are mechanized infantry? and you need air support (Pegasus knights) to take them out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 2 hours ago, anikom15 said: So mages are mechanized infantry? and you need air support (Pegasus knights) to take them out? What's the analogy here? Because I have not the slightest clue what you're going on about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousSpeed Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 On 10/21/2018 at 2:09 PM, Hawkwing said: My only real request would be to add more axes and lances, as swords tend to get more variations than either of those two in pretty much every game in the series. Which could be addressed by united lances and axes into a single weapon type with the unique weapon affects available to both. You know, I'll be the one to cut Mir a little slack and here and say that the magic triangle (at least in my experience with it in FE7, FE8, FE9, and FE10) has very rarely been very impactful or otherwise, like...cool or anything at all. If it's only for mages versus mages, it exacerbates the issue where all magic using classes tend to have similar stats and not show up very often, so not only are the bonuses rare but they don't even do much except let you more effectively dodge tank the least accurate spell type and prevent a smidgen of chip damage. I think it could work, but it would require some broader changes to magical classes which I don't expect to occur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bethany81707 Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 The weapon triangle is either terrible (where you basically just stop caring because it's too much work to hold onto a minuscle advantage) or awful (where if you're not switching out units to change their weapons on the fly, you'll be swamped by a small force of differently-armed forces). "We're keeping it around because tradition" is not a good enough excuse. It goes bad places. Don't do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strullemia Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 From what I've heard the only reason it didn't exist in SoV is because there were no axe units so It'll probably come back in Three Houses. I would personally like to see it come back because it always gave another layer of strategy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GamerX51 Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Hekselka said: From what I've heard the only reason it didn't exist in SoV is because there were no axe units To this day I still consider that to be SoV's one fatal flaw; the only dark blot on an otherwise stellar remake. Why the hell couldn't they have put axes in the game? I mean, it takes place in the same world as Shadow Dragon and New Mystery, both of which have axe users. It literally doesn't make sense for there to be no axe users in Valentia. Historically, axes were one of the very first tools man ever made to be weaponized; men were hacking each other to death with axes long before swords or lances were even a thing. Edited November 10, 2018 by GamerX51 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexBolt Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 1 hour ago, GamerX51 said: To this day I still consider that to be SoV's one fatal flaw; the only dark blot on an otherwise stellar remake. Why the hell couldn't they have put axes in the game? I mean, it takes place in the same world as Shadow Dragon and New Mystery, both of which have axe users. It literally doesn't make sense for there to be no axe users in Valentia. Historically, axes were one of the very first tools man ever made to be weaponized; men were hacking each other to death with axes long before swords or lances were even a thing. How do you think they should have done this? Changed the way some classes work or added new classes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectiveToast Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 2 hours ago, GamerX51 said: To this day I still consider that to be SoV's one fatal flaw; the only dark blot on an otherwise stellar remake. Why the hell couldn't they have put axes in the game? I mean, it takes place in the same world as Shadow Dragon and New Mystery, both of which have axe users. It literally doesn't make sense for there to be no axe users in Valentia. Historically, axes were one of the very first tools man ever made to be weaponized; men were hacking each other to death with axes long before swords or lances were even a thing. Something that could be an explanation lorewise. Axes could be seen in Valentia as more of a tool than a weapon, since its design is more about cleaving wood than flesh. And those who use axes in combat would be looked down on as criminals and mercenary wannabes. My question is why don’t the paladins get swords as a backup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 4 hours ago, RexBolt said: How do you think they should have done this? Changed the way some classes work or added new classes? Create a new unit that is a recruitable brigand, make brigand a promotion option for villagers , give generals, barons, dread fighters and/or gold knights axes in addition to their regular weapon. Boom, fully integrated axes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slumber Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 13 minutes ago, Jotari said: Create a new unit that is a recruitable brigand, make brigand a promotion option for villagers , give generals, barons, dread fighters and/or gold knights axes in addition to their regular weapon. Boom, fully integrated axes. Yeah, the ways to integrate axes were such a no-brainer that it's kind of baffling they didn't do it. The game even gives you a playable lumberjack who is built like a typical axer, but he can't use axes! Why?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Von Ithipathachai Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 8 minutes ago, Slumber said: The game even gives you a playable lumberjack who is built like a typical axer, but he can't use axes! Why?! This ticked me off so bad. Atlas would've made an awesome Berserker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingle Jangle Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 Yes, the weapon triangle should return. However the magic triangle shouldn't, excluding Heroes it's too niche in the series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectiveToast Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 2 hours ago, Slumber said: Yeah, the ways to integrate axes were such a no-brainer that it's kind of baffling they didn't do it. The game even gives you a playable lumberjack who is built like a typical axer, but he can't use axes! Why?! My only guess is to keep the general spirit of the original game, and the fact that axes seem to be seen as “villain weapons” in Japanese media. It’s kinda the same situation in Awakening where barbarians are only playable through a second seal use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slumber Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, ElectiveToast said: My only guess is to keep the general spirit of the original game, and the fact that axes seem to be seen as “villain weapons” in Japanese media. It’s kinda the same situation in Awakening where barbarians are only playable through a second seal use. Yeah, but this is for the remake. FE has built axes up as a viable good guy weapon for 25 years in between the original FE2 and SoV. We know Kaga didn't like having good guys use axes, but Kaga's been gone for almost 20 years. Edited November 11, 2018 by Slumber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henrymidfields Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 Definitely bring them back, and have light/dark/anima return as well. And for the matter, there should be more mage-type enemies to deal with so that both triangles are made relevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 13 hours ago, henrymidfields said: Definitely bring them back, and have light/dark/anima return as well. And for the matter, there should be more mage-type enemies to deal with so that both triangles are made relevant. Except, as stated earlier, the magic triangle has no compelling arguments for its inclusion whatsoever. Mages in general tend to have similar stats, meaning the bonuses won't even be noticeable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anikom15 Posted November 13, 2018 Author Share Posted November 13, 2018 On 11/11/2018 at 2:47 PM, Shadow Mir said: Except, as stated earlier, the magic triangle has no compelling arguments for its inclusion whatsoever. Mages in general tend to have similar stats, meaning the bonuses won't even be noticeable. You already gave your opinion once. There’s no need to spam it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.