New Heroes Coming: October 23rd (Brave Redux) Loki, Kliff, and Owain

[Anacybele]

1 minute ago, NoirCore said:

Thing is, you always seem like this extra-dark cloud in this crowd of happiness every banner, and your bluntness with how you repeat "disappointing" every time while trying to deconstruct how wonderful the banner is to others (I mean, you're posting in a topic) is a super downer. Then you go claiming odd things like "Mia stole Elincia's right as the first flying healer" or "Silas is the only guy and does not have as much skills? IS is run by sexist people!" It feels like when you get disappointed, you start looking for reasons to justify your hate, and I know you aren't a big fan of best Tellius girl Mia or the large amount of female representation, which I get you have your own reasons for, which may have fueled such claims.

Except, I wasn't the only person to have the same disappointments. A couple others voiced that they also didn't like how IS kept giving males worse skillsets and all and a couple others also voiced that they agreed that Elincia or someone else other than Mia should've been the first flying healer. These opinions weren't restricted to just me at all.

[NoirCore]

Huh, I just realized that Tobin's the only Ram guy not using his canon weapon. Welp. :O

[XRay]

1 minute ago, Anacybele said:

We've had three Tellius banners though, so obviously IS must be satisfied. Thracia's also been featured in two.

I would agree with Tellius being satisfactory since they released LB!Mia recently.

As for Thracia, I am not so sure about that. Putting in the Dire Thunder siblings seems to suggest that they are not very confident that it would sell well. If we get Thracia Foci more frequently down the line, we will know for sure that the Thracia Foci we had sold well enough to justify more.

[Interdimensional Observer]

3 minutes ago, silveraura25 said:

It's funny how Kliff's "canon" class is mage based on SoV's area interactions, cause it's his worst promotion cause of the late spells he gets

Still better than Soldier, you can't forget how bad that class is.

[Rafiel's Aria]

Finally, a banner that doesn't super tempt me. lol But it's pretty cool to see all of these characters in at last. 

I love Kliff's art. I feel like if I ever actually got around to playing Echoes, I'd like him a lot. But I've really come to love Tobi's art style. 

Owain's art is rocking too. I'm glad to see him, and I hope his stats do him justice. 

Loki is Loki. I'm tired of her in the story, but if she pity-breaks me eventually, Lucius might like her A skill. I wonder if her inclusion in the game will hurt her CYL 3 chances. I do find it strange that she's in while normal Veronica and Bruno aren't here... 

Oddly enough, I'm looking forward to Aversa the most. I haven't promoted (or even bothered raising) a GHB unit in several rotations. She's a red mage flier, and that's a niche I haven't filled on my flier teams yet. Getting one for free would be great. 

[TheWill]

5 minutes ago, XRay said:

As a devil's advocate, from Intelligent System's point of view, it could be argued that maybe Tellius Foci were not that profitable, if Tellius Foci were not profitable, why would they want to be slapped with low profits multiple times?

Maybe they tried selling it to test the waters and it did not sell well enough.

 

We have no idea what the sales are, so this hypothetical is a fruitless discussion as we have no real sale figures. However, considering the most popular character in the franchise has yet to even have a seasonal alt, it's pretty inexcusable when characters like Kagero begin getting two. 

5 minutes ago, XRay said:

I would not call that equal representation if they are going address the representation of some but not others.

"Trying to equalize representation" and "equal representation" aren't the same. One is an ongoing process, the other is a current or completed state. They were trying to equalize the representation amongst the franchise, but they stopped in favour of shilling Awakening/Fates characters. Some of which of whom aren't even popular (Nina, Libra). 

5 minutes ago, XRay said:

Until they start setting the precedent for equal representation for all games, I find expecting the worst from them is more reasonable than expecting the best from them.

The game has continually made disappointing design decisions with an overall drop in community satisfaction. Should we keep expecting them to keep up this ongoing train of disappointment and bad decisions? IMO, no. We should expect them to be better. The first year of this game was great, despite the mishaps, expecting the game to be like that first year is reasonable as far as I'm concerned. 

[colossus86]

5 minutes ago, silveraura25 said:

It's funny how Kliff's "canon" class is mage based on SoV's area interactions, cause it's his worst promotion cause of the late spells he gets

I mean none of the Ram crew fare too well as mages in the long haul

[Anacybele]

3 minutes ago, XRay said:

I would agree with Tellius being satisfactory since they released LB!Mia recently.

And Elincia and Micaiah's Hoshidan summer alts as well, yeah. Thracia though, you may have a point on.

[NoirCore]

6 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Except, I wasn't the only person to have the same disappointments. A couple others voiced that they also didn't like how IS kept giving males worse skillsets and all and a couple others also voiced that they agreed that Elincia or someone else other than Mia should've been the first flying healer. These opinions weren't restricted to just me at all.

I haven't noticed them, if that's the case. Care to link me to them, perhaps? To add, you show up early often (when you are at your peak in your disappointment and are doing a quick reaction without giving time to let it sink in), so for all we know, you unintentionally plant such ideas in their heads (if those exist). In any case, no one has a right to be the first unit with such a specific weapon/movement type combo, and the same will apply to the beasts in V3.

Edited October 22, 2018 by NoirCore

[TheWill]

3 minutes ago, XRay said:

Putting in the Dire Thunder siblings seems to suggest that they are not very confident that it would sell well.

I agree - but Olwen isn't a popular character, so why did they bother making her? They should have stopped with Reinhardt if they only cared about profit, but they went out of the way to create an alternate version of Olwen to "justify" Reinhardt overshadowing Leif on the first Thracian banner. It's an ulterior move, potentially derived from the assumption that Reinhardt may carry the cost to create a second Olwen who wouldn't be popular. 

[Anacybele]

Just now, NoirCore said:

I haven't noticed them, if that's the case. Care to link me to them, perhaps? To add, you show up early often (when you are at your peak in your disappointment and are doing a quick reaction without giving time to let it sink in), so for all we know, you unintentionally plant such ideas on their heads (if those exist). In any case, no one has a right to be the first unit with such a specific weapon/movement type combo, and the same will apply to the beasts in V3.

I "plant" ideas in other people's heads without knowing? And you think what I said was odd.

One example is Sunwoo/Sangyul and I happen to know that she held the same opinion as me at least regarding Silas BEFORE I posted. And I definitely recall at least one other person agreeing with me on Elincia needing to have been the first flying healer. I would link, but it's late and I'm about to go to bed. And that thread is probably well buried now too anyway.

 

[wheelsonfire]

Was hoping for Idoun, but Loki works too. Plus it would be really funny to use her because of what she does in the story… Only bad thing is that I will probably end up having her inherit something because I don't use the arena much, but other than that, should looks like a solid unit. I don't really need any of the others, although I do like Owain as a character. Aversa’s great as well, considering I don't have any of the flying tome users. Pretty pleased with this, and I have 200+ Orbs to spend.

[Silver-Haired Maiden]

Aversa is the only character I'm looking forward to so long as she's free. This banner is a safe skip for me thankfully since I'm still stockpiling orbs :)

Still I'm happy Kliff and Owain got in, I know people really wanted those two!

[redlight]

3 minutes ago, colossus86 said:

I mean none of the Ram crew fare too well as mages in the long haul

Tobin starts off great though. Long run, not so great, but early game usage has a huge emphasis over late game

[TheWill]

3 minutes ago, NoirCore said:

I haven't noticed them, if that's the case. Care to link me to them, perhaps? To add, you show up early often (when you are at your peak in your disappointment and are doing a quick reaction without giving time to let it sink in), so for all we know, you unintentionally plant such ideas in their heads (if those exist). In any case, no one has a right to be the first unit with such a specific weapon/movement type combo, and the same will apply to the beasts in V3.

To be honest I'm kind of surprised you haven't seen these types of posts?

The exact same stuff happened when Eirika "stole" Gelipnir and Hinoka punted Reina off her Kinshi. 

Maybe "should" is the wrong word as it suggests ownership over a theme, but it makes a hell of a lot more sense for Knoll to use Gleipnir, Reina to be the first Kinshi and Elincia to be the first flying healer. Hence, the basis of the complaints. I wasn't as disappointed over Mia overriding Elincia, but the other two were especially frustrating since the only reason Knoll and Reina didn't get included into the game was so IS could make a quick buck from Eirika/Hinoka fans.

[Landmaster]

13 minutes ago, silveraura25 said:

It's funny how Kliff's "canon" class is mage based on SoV's area interactions, cause it's his worst promotion cause of the late spells he gets

He worked great as a mage for me, granted I've not used him in any other classes~

[Sentinel07]

16 minutes ago, XRay said:

I would agree with Tellius being satisfactory since they released LB!Mia recently.

As for Thracia, I am not so sure about that. Putting in the Dire Thunder siblings seems to suggest that they are not very confident that it would sell well. If we get Thracia Foci more frequently down the line, we will know for sure that the Thracia Foci we had sold well enough to justify more.

Yeah, Thracia has been royally screwed over so far.

It's only had one banner and half of it was two units we already had.

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 minute ago, Landmaster said:

He worked great as a mage for me, granted I've not used him in any other classes~

Although I've always made him a Mage, the general criticism of Kliff as a Mage is that, although he has a high Speed growth and a wide spell selection, he has a very poor Spd base, as does Mage and Sage. The result is that he can't double as many things or as fast as is expected. Tobin has a high Speed base and gets eventual Physics, which make him better. Plus Delthea isn't hard to use and can outdo Kliff.

Kliff as a Cav gives you a fairly strong Cav- fast and durable, the best Ram Villager here and it's a good choice given Clive is eh and Mathilda won't come for a while. As an Archer, he is decent, until you can get the Killer Bow, then Gray and Tobin are better. For Dread Fighter, Kliff has the highest base Res of the Villager, 6/4 more than Gray/Tobin, which with Atropos means -12/8 damage in practice, very good for magic tanking.

[NoirCore]

19 minutes ago, TheWill said:

We have no idea what the sales are, so this hypothetical is a fruitless discussion as we have no real sale figures. However, considering the most popular character in the franchise has yet to even have a seasonal alt, it's pretty inexcusable when characters like Kagero begin getting two. 

"Trying to equalize representation" and "equal representation" aren't the same. One is an ongoing process, the other is a current or completed state. They were trying to equalize the representation amongst the franchise, but they stopped in favour of shilling Awakening/Fates characters. Some of which of whom aren't even popular (Nina, Libra). 

The game has continually made disappointing design decisions with an overall drop in community satisfaction. Should we keep expecting them to keep up this ongoing train of disappointment and bad decisions? IMO, no. We should expect them to be better. The first year of this game was great, despite the mishaps, expecting the game to be like that first year is reasonable as far as I'm concerned. 

Well, we ARE coming up on the V3 update, so if there's a time to add stuff to get people interested again, it's then.

15 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

I "plant" ideas in other people's heads without knowing? And you think what I said was odd.

One example is Sunwoo/Sangyul and I happen to know that she held the same opinion as me at least regarding Silas BEFORE I posted. And I definitely recall at least one other person agreeing with me on Elincia needing to have been the first flying healer. I would link, but it's late and I'm about to go to bed. And that thread is probably well buried now too anyway.

 

Well, saying interesting facts like "Mia is the first healing flyer" alongside "Elincia can heal on a pegasus in her own game" will get people thinking about them. That's not odd. And keep in mind that I'm not specifically talking about the unbalance in gender, but your sexism accusations.

In that case, I will still wait for such links or for others to come forth with sharing such ideas.

12 minutes ago, TheWill said:

To be honest I'm kind of surprised you haven't seen these types of posts?

The exact same stuff happened when Eirika "stole" Gelipnir and Hinoka punted Reina off her Kinshi. 

Maybe "should" is the wrong word as it suggests ownership over a theme, but it makes a hell of a lot more sense for Knoll to use Gleipnir, Reina to be the first Kinshi and Elincia to be the first flying healer. Hence, the basis of the complaints. I wasn't as disappointed over Mia overriding Elincia, but the other two were especially frustrating since the only reason Knoll and Reina didn't get included into the game was so IS could make a quick buck from Eirika/Hinoka fans.

...you say that like Knoll and Reina are deconfirmed for Heroes because their weapons/notable traits are in there with others. That's not true. Knoll can still be added with his weapon (we have units sharing legendary weapons already in the form of Seliph and Julia with Sigurd and Dierdre) and Reina can still come in as a Kinshi Knight. Nothing says they can't, especially Reina. Similarly, flying healer Elincia is not deconfirmed. No one is taking away any right to get in the game.

Edited October 22, 2018 by NoirCore

[Nanima]

Ah so it's Farfetched 2.0 after all.

Suprised by Loki, though not really in such a bad way. Part of me is tempted to pull for her, just so I can put my Firesweep Tak-Tak into arena. Duel skills are still terrible, but you gotta play the cards you are given.

Kliff, I was hoping to see as a green mage who would later get dropped, so I could put him on my +10 team. Alas that won't be happening now. Srill glad to see he got in the game, and with that great art.

Owain is in the game now. Again technically. Don't really mind his presence, but also not exactly excited for him.

Aversa as a free Tome Flier, wow. That is incredibly generous of Intsys. I already have H!Nowi, but depending on how she turns out, I might give her a shot.

[Vince777]

25 minutes ago, Rafiel's Aria said:

I wonder if her inclusion in the game will hurt her CYL 3 chances.

Most definitely. 

I was planning to vote for her. Now I will not.

I'll always priviledge characters not yet in the game.

[XRay]

29 minutes ago, TheWill said:

However, considering the most popular character in the franchise has yet to even have a seasonal alt, it's pretty inexcusable when characters like Kagero begin getting two. 

I know it is a hypothetical, but maybe they think Kagero fans are more profitable. At least there is a precedent for them to have a clear bias for waifu fans over husbando fans.

29 minutes ago, TheWill said:

"Trying to equalize representation" and "equal representation" aren't the same. One is an ongoing process, the other is a current or completed state. They were trying to equalize the representation amongst the franchise, but they stopped in favour of shilling Awakening/Fates characters. Some of which of whom aren't even popular (Nina, Libra). 

If they were trying to go for more equal representation, they could have at least thrown in one Foci for Thracia and one for Binding Blade sometime within the first 12 months. World of Thracia did not make it in the game until 18 months later and two of them are alts. Binding Blade's only new addition to the permanent summoning pool is Klein who was released shortly after the game's debut.

Oh, and I guess BH!Roy too. I forgot about him.

29 minutes ago, TheWill said:

Should we keep expecting them to keep up this ongoing train of disappointment and bad decisions? IMO, no. We should expect them to be better.

High expectations is earned. For the past few months, Intelligent Systems stopped earning it for me in regards to Arena. In regards to character releases concerning alts, gender ratio, game representation, etc. I am surprised people still have any sort of expectations from them after over 1.5 years of little improvement.

26 minutes ago, TheWill said:

I agree - but Olwen isn't a popular character, so why did they bother making her?

I am guessing that they had such low confidence in Thracia that they think Olwen is more profitable than other Thracia characters because she is recognizable for being in the game for quite a while now.

Edited October 22, 2018 by XRay

[Sunwoo]

Dammit guys, why the fuck was I even mentioned in this topic? Can't a person just get back from a D&D session with friends and chill without being thrown into this idiocy?

I've expressed my disappointment with newer male units tending to be more mediocre than female units on average -- Silas and Libra were created just to be dropped. Lewyn and Quan probably avoided that fate because they're popular, plot-relevant, canonically powerful, and Silvia is ... well, none of those. She's just another random character in regards to the story. Also, @NoirCore, I don't think this was your intent but I do not like the insinuation that people (and especially I) are only complaining about things Anacybele is complaining about because she "planted" the idea in our heads, like we're so weak-willed that we didn't notice it ourselves or that we were just completely fine with it beforehand. On the contrary, there have always been people complaining about things, not just Anacybele. Where the fuck were you?

With regards to this banner:

Kliff: I guess he's cool. Will probably try for him.
Owain: I like him more than Odin as a character, and he seems cool. Wouldn't mind getting him.
Loki: Ugh, but I guess OCs are fair game now, especially after the Muspell trio. Don't really want to get her, but I will use her if I get her. Also, fuck these duel skills.
Aversa: She's free, can't complain.

[NSSKG151]

Hmmm...I just realized Kliff is the only new Echoes characters to be released this year besides outside the Celica alts.

2 hours ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

ALSO! I suppose this means that the Forging Bonds event is very likely to have the Farfetched 2 heroes, and the upcoming Voting Gauntlet will probably be Farfetched 1 vs. Farfetched 2. In which case I'm totally joining Joshua's team.

I could see the upcoming VG being themed around Farfetched Heroes since the banner for Brave Redux will still be up before it ends. I would have to decide between choosing Owain or Kliff. Not sure if they will do something about Joshua though unless they expect people to have already gotten him on the TT with repeat TT rewards or they plan on him being the next reward for Heroic Feats.

2 hours ago, NoirCore said:

Huh, I just realized that Tobin's the only Ram guy not using his canon weapon. Welp. :O

Obviously Tobin is going to be our Legendary Hero this month wielding a red bow to show his superiority towards Alm.

[Inferno lizard]

Personally, I'd love to get Loki, mostly because I rather like the Kiran x Loki ship that's been going around.