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New Heroes Coming: October 23rd (Brave Redux) Loki, Kliff, and Owain


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17 minutes ago, Sentinel07 said:

Yeah, Thracia has been royally screwed over so far.

Eh, they’re only continuing tradition given FE5 has been screwed over its entire life because someone thought releasing it for the Super Famicom in 1999 was a good idea.

Edited by Tybrosion
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2 minutes ago, Tybrosion said:

Eh, they’re only continuing tradition given FE5 has been screwed over its entire life because someone thought releasing it for the Super Famicom in 1998 was a good idea.

Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Thracia in 2019! Exclusively for the Wii U!

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6 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

Dammit guys, why the fuck was I even mentioned in this topic? Can't a person just get back from a D&D session with friends and chill without being thrown into this idiocy?

I've expressed my disappointment with newer male units tending to be more mediocre than female units on average -- Silas and Libra were created just to be dropped. Lewyn and Quan probably avoided that fate because they're popular, plot-relevant, canonically powerful, and Silvia is ... well, none of those. She's just another random character in regards to the story. Also, @NoirCore, I don't think this was your intent but I do not like the insinuation that people (and especially I) are only complaining about things Anacybele is complaining about because she "planted" the idea in our heads, like we're so weak-willed that we didn't notice it ourselves or that we were just completely fine with it beforehand. On the contrary, there have always been people complaining about things, not just Anacybele. Where the fuck were you?

With regards to this banner:

Kliff: I guess he's cool. Will probably try for him.
Owain: I like him more than Odin as a character, and he seems cool. Wouldn't mind getting him.
Loki: Ugh, but I guess OCs are fair game now, especially after the Muspell trio. Don't really want to get her, but I will use her if I get her. Also, fuck these duel skills.
Aversa: She's free, can't complain.

I meant what she specifically complains about that I did not manage to see others complain about, not complaining in general. I was not referring to the gender imbalance (which is very understandable, as I agreed with it in the same thread), but the idea that IS employees were sexist. Maybe it was bad wording on my part (though I said unintentionally planted), but I did not imply you guys were weak-willed. Like I said, when someone says something, it can get others thinking, especially if it stands out. The gender imbalance is a common complaint and nothing necessarily new, although it is reasonable to complain about when not done to THAT extent I implied earlier.

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16 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

Loki: Ugh, but I guess OCs are fair game now, especially after the Muspell trio. Don't really want to get her, but I will use her if I get her. Also, fuck these duel skills.

Weren't you saying you want Hrid for legendary hero? Better these OCs are here then on legendary hero banners IMO. 

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12 minutes ago, NoirCore said:

Well, we ARE coming up on the V3 update, so if there's a time to add stuff to get people interested again, it's then.

I hope so, I miss the game even though I play it regularly enough. A weird dynamic. 

12 minutes ago, NoirCore said:

...you say that like Knoll and Reina are deconfirmed for Heroes because their weapons/notable traits are in there with others. That's not true. Knoll can still be added with his weapon (we have units sharing legendary weapons already in the form of Seliph and Julia) and Reina can still come in as a Kinshi Knight. Nothing says they can't, especially Reina. Similarly, flying healer Elincia is not deconfirmed. No one is taking away any right to get in the game.

Reina and Knoll are definitely not deconfirmed (although I would argue they're very unlikely). The point isn't that they're not ever going to be put in the game, but rather that IS makes the direct decision to ignore these characters to force a number of unncessary alts on more popular characters. Obviously, monetary value is the underlying reason behind these decisions and I understand people accept this because of such, but you have to understand that others absolutely will not stand by or accept this. Yes, Eirika and Hinoka fans get a new alt, but Knoll and Reina fans absolutely got screwed and now have many months to wait before they can get added into the game.

6 minutes ago, XRay said:

I know it is a hypothetical, but maybe they think Kagero fans are more profitable. At least there is a precedent for them to have a clear bias for waifu fans over husbando fans.

If they were trying to go for more equal representation, they could have at least thrown in one Foci for Thracia and one for Binding Blade sometime within the first 12 months. World of Thracia did not make it in the game until 18 months later and two of them are alts. Binding Blade's only new addition to the permanent summoning pool is Klein who was released shortly after the game's debut.

Oh, and I guess BH!Roy too. I forgot about him.

High expectations is earned. For the past few months, Intelligent Systems stopped earning it for me in regards to Arena. In regards to character releases concerning alts, gender ratio, game representation, etc. I am surprised people still have any sort of expectations from them after over 1.5 years of little improvement.

I am guessing that they had such low confidence in Thracia that they think Olwen is more profitable than other Thracia characters because she is recognizable for being in the game for quite a while now.

Monetary gain will definitely be the underlying and most important factor for IS's decisions when it comes to character and banner releases, but... You're acting as if it's the only motivation behind their decision-making which is simply not the case. Many times they've released alts of lesser popular characters. Bride Sanaki, Olwen2, Hardin, Nina, Halloween Jakob, Summer Innes, Karla and so on... These characters absolutely would have not been getting seasonals, let alone included in the game if money was the only motivation behind releasing characters. Similarly, we wouldn't have gotten a Thracia or New Mystery banner in the first place. Similarly, there's no excuse for characters like Ike, Eirika, Ephraim, Celica, Alm and so on not having seasonals.

Just look at the recent announcement, if they only cared about money, they absolutely wouldn't have made Aversa the GHB... and yet, they did. I do think IS has been greedy in a number of different ways, but they absolutely have been trying to listen to fans in other aspects, hence why they need to release a damn Binding Blade banner for the same reason Thracia 776 needed a banner (and arguably, still does, without alts bloating the pool). 

If money was the only motivation towards , they would have never released Leif, they would continue making alts of popular character only (rather than going back to new characters like the recent banners have been doing).

Really... this whole circular discussion is a bit silly. When they make literal "irrelevant" characters like Lene, Karla and (to a lesser degree, due to his unique situation) Reinhardt desirable units with real fans now, it just goes to show that a bit of effort can actually go a long way.

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1 minute ago, TheWill said:

I hope so, I miss the game even though I play it regularly enough. A weird dynamic. 

Reina and Knoll are definitely not deconfirmed (although I would argue they're very unlikely). The point isn't that they're not ever going to be put in the game, but rather that IS makes the direct decision to ignore these characters to force a number of unncessary alts on more popular characters. Obviously, monetary value is the underlying reason behind these decisions and I understand people accept this because of such, but you have to understand that others absolutely will not stand by or accept this. Yes, Eirika and Hinoka fans get a new alt, but Knoll and Reina fans absolutely got screwed and now have many months to wait before they can get added into the game.

Monetary gain will definitely be the underlying and most important factor for IS's decisions when it comes to character and banner releases, but... You're acting as if it's the only motivation behind their decision-making which is simply not the case. Many times they've released alts of lesser popular characters. Bride Sanaki, Olwen2, Hardin, Nina, Halloween Jakob, Summer Innes, Karla and so on... These characters absolutely would have not been getting seasonals, let alone included in the game if money was the only motivation behind releasing characters. Similarly, we wouldn't have gotten a Thracia or New Mystery banner in the first place. Similarly, there's no excuse for characters like Ike, Eirika, Ephraim, Celica, Alm and so on not having seasonals.

Just look at the recent announcement, if they only cared about money, they absolutely wouldn't have made Aversa the GHB... and yet, they did. I do think IS has been greedy in a number of different ways, but they absolutely have been trying to listen to fans in other aspects, hence why they need to release a damn Binding Blade banner for the same reason Thracia 776 needed a banner (and arguably, still does, without alts bloating the pool). 

If money was the only motivation towards , they would have never released Leif, they would continue making alts of popular character only (rather than going back to new characters like the recent banners have been doing).

Really... this whole circular discussion is a bit silly. When they make literal "irrelevant" characters like Lene, Karla and (to a lesser degree, due to his unique situation) Reinhardt desirable units with real fans now, it just goes to show that a bit of effort can actually go a long way.

Well, Kinshi isn't necessarily exclusive to Reina like Knoll's tome. Sure, she's the first knight you see, but any sky knight can promote into them. And it's not like healer flying Elincia was bound to show up on a Halloween banner, not to mention she'd technically be an alt as well, though I don't comprehend if you view alts in general as unnecessary or those that match a certain criteria.

...speaking of characters planned, though, it does have me thinking about Valbar possibly being excluded with how Leon's dialogue talks about him being separated from Valbar. That's worrying for the big guy.

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15 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Weren't you saying you want Hrid for legendary hero? Better these OCs are here then on legendary hero banners IMO. 

Did you also somehow miss the part where I've said I primarily want Hrid because I want more playable male OCs? Also, it'd be weird to make Gunnthra legendary and not Hrid, when both have approximately the same plot relevance anyway. Unless Gunnthra and Fjorm became legendary because they both died due to Rite of Frost.

EDIT: Also, I'm not too keen on having Heroes' villains be added until their role in the plot is done. We never get to play as the villains in many FE games, so I'm not too fussed if we have to wait a bit longer for Heroes villains here. Also, it's implied that Loki is not done with the plot yet, while Nifl likely is.

Edited by Sunwoo
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4 minutes ago, NoirCore said:

Well, Kinshi isn't necessarily exclusive to Reina like Knoll's tome.

Sure, but Ewan can also use Gleipnir, I guess.

Maybe Validar is the only character that really got screwed. Why does Morgan have Grima's Truth again?

 

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4 minutes ago, Vince777 said:

Sure, but Ewan can also use Gleipnir, I guess.

Maybe Validar is the only character that really got screwed. Why does Morgan have Grima's Truth again?

 

Because he didn't want to take Grima's dare.

Seriously, though, yeah, IS is weird with how they're introducing units. Charlotte, Shigure and Noire (and maybe Inigo, but with Laslow already in I'm not too sure?) getting in first as alternates before their vanilla selves are even more examples of this.

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Inigo and Severa are probably greatly hindered by being units too similar to Laslow and Selena, something Odin/Owain aren't.

I feel like Noire's alternate being an archer may mean we'll never get her vanilla version.

I've no doubt Charlotte is getting in again though. She's money. 

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33 minutes ago, XRay said:

Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Thracia in 2019! Exclusively for the Wii U!

You are still being too optimistic.  It is more like Thracia 776, ported to the Wii U, lovingly translated into English for the first time!  The creator will say how the game is such a masterpiece that they didn't want to change a thing.  

One other thing since Thracia was brought up that I believe is very important.  Leif, Finn, and Nanna are all characters (important ones) in Genealogy as well.  So anyone who played FE4 knows well who they all are, Finn is special in that he is playable in both generations so you see a ton of him.  The only Thracia exclusive characters in the game are Saias, Reinhardt and Olwen.   

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I wonder if Duel skills will be locked to OCs...

Anyway, our second Farfetched Heroes banner! With all the demand I've heard for these characters I'm sure a lot of people are happy.

(...I also hope this kills interest in Loki winning CYL3 so Eirika has a chance, but who am I kidding.)

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14 minutes ago, Vince777 said:

Inigo and Severa are probably greatly hindered by being units too similar to Laslow and Selena, something Odin/Owain aren't.

They could make one or both of them bow cavs if they don’t want to make Severa and Inigo yet more unneeded infantry swords. Bow Knight is the promoted class Selena uses in Birthright’s late-game and the two royals vs royals DLC maps, so there’d at least be some basis for a bow cav Severa not that there even needs to be a logical basis *glares at mage knight Eirika*.

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Interesting new take on Farfetched. Loki is a clever way of avoiding the "only Owain, Kliff, and Aversa as viable picks if it's before beasts get added" issue.

Surprising that Aversa is a GHB, but it's nice to see them breaking from that kind of pattern. This also means Forging Bonds doesn't have to guarantee a 4-character banner, which is something I'd been wondering about and is not so fortunate.

Not sure why people are still freaking out so much over another Duel skill now that they're already established as a thing. There's at least 9 more, and we're going to get them all eventually.

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44 minutes ago, Vince777 said:

Sure, but Ewan can also use Gleipnir, I guess.

Maybe Validar is the only character that really got screwed. Why does Morgan have Grima's Truth again?

 

It's a family heirloom, though now that i think about it, it also would have made sense for a Robin refine but owell

Edited by colossus86
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SURPRISE WE'RE GETTING HER NOW!

So, I'm shocked we get Loki, but otherwise called Farfetched 2 pretty well (barring the name). Loki has Thokk (Well shit), Restore, the Def/Res +6 balm, another Duel skill and Odd Atk Wave, pretty understandable build. Kliff (AAAAAAA) comes with Sagittae (which looks great, gives defence and if an enemy has at least 5 more attack +5 to all stats, which sounds fun), an AoE special, Fortress Def/Res (which grant +6 to each for only -2 Atk. That's busted.), Chill Spd and Fort Res. Owain has Sword Missiletainn (which has faster cooldown and increased charge on enemy attack.), Blue Flame (boosts damage by 10 or if an ally is next to him 25 (Also known as at least 30 Def/Res, but with faster charge because he'll get it on EP after being attacked)), Atk/Def Bond (okay), Wrath (OF COURSE) and a spur skill. Also, Aversa's a red flier and GHB (CALLED IT)

So, I want Kliff (#DELIVERAMCE) but if one of the other fell into my lap I wouldn't be mad.

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I like OCs and I like Loki so I'm going all in exclusively on colourless, probably for many of the most worthless fodder along the way.

I did get all all 3 OCs in the last banner (including 2 extra Laegjarn) so I'm feeling good about my chances. I'm f2p and it was the first time I've completed an entire banner since the beginning of this game.

 

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Oof. GG, Arena, GG. Colorless Duel Infantry's already going to be in the game.

Cheerleader meta is going to be much easier thanks to having a Razzle Dazzle healer being able to shove their Dazzling Pain(is) staff up some bonus unit's arse (though staff units still have no access to a 500-SP special; best is 300-SP via Windfire Balm+ and Earthwater Balm+; followed by the budget 200-SP Miracle). Renewal can be swapped out for Quick Riposte on the bonus unit as they can now effectively get infinite HP from the healer in addition their Aether special.

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2 minutes ago, TheWill said:

Monetary gain will definitely be the underlying and most important factor for IS's decisions when it comes to character and banner releases, but... You're acting as if it's the only motivation behind their decision-making which is simply not the case.

It is their primary motivation and expecting them to act otherwise is not realistic. Sure, maybe they will act altruistically once in a while, but you should not expect them to always act in your favor.

1 hour ago, TheWill said:

Many times they've released alts of lesser popular characters. Bride Sanaki, Olwen2, Hardin, Nina, Halloween Jakob, Summer Innes, Karla and so on...

Most of those units are part of a desirable class and/or comes with or have access to powerful skills to make them sellable.

1 hour ago, TheWill said:

I do think IS has been greedy in a number of different ways, but they absolutely have been trying to listen to fans in other aspects, hence why they need to release a damn Binding Blade banner for the same reason Thracia 776 needed a banner (and arguably, still does, without alts bloating the pool). 

Listening to fans once in while is not done because it is the ethical thing to do, it is done because it is the profitable thing to do. Expecting them to do exactly as you say is unreasonable at best, and unless a huge portion of the fandom starts to demand Thracia and Binding Blade Foci, they are not going to release them anytime soon in 6 to 12 months.

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2 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Except, I wasn't the only person to have the same disappointments. A couple others voiced that they also didn't like how IS kept giving males worse skillsets and all and a couple others also voiced that they agreed that Elincia or someone else other than Mia should've been the first flying healer. These opinions weren't restricted to just me at all.

Elincia being flying healer is honestly kind of a roundabout. Ask anyone during 2017 and i can bet you you'd get flamed for suggesting Flying Elincia

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32 minutes ago, colossus86 said:

It's a family heirloom, though now that i think about it, it also would have made sense for a Robin refine but owell

The only character that "deserves" to have Gleipnir is Lyon, but he already has Naglfar. Knoll, who is effectively Lyon's retainer, if I recall correctly, has no real claim to it other than being one of the three playable characters in the game who can use it after it is obtained.

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YEEESSSSSS!! YES YES YES! I was scared this wouldn't happen. The non-believers made me scared. But it happened, my faith was rewarded.

Let me calm down a little... boy this is a good banner. Not only there is no color overlap, all the characters aren't alts (shut up, the original version of a character isn't the alt, even if it's added later. Flying Shigure wasn't the alt, Dancer Shigure was. If Charlotte was added instead, would she be an alt? Stop being stupid, Owain is a new character).

Plus I noticed something. Last year we got 2 females on the banner and 1 male, with another male for free. This year we get 2 males on the banner and 1 female, with another female for free. I'm pointing this out for those who accuse IS of sexism. You cannot get more equal than this, literally. At least they are not sexist when it comes to their Brave Heroes and Farfetched Heroes.

And they gave us a free Flying Mage!!! WHAT? Is this real life? Also, I noticed another bit of equality. In both banners there was a game with two people voted (Sacred Stones: Joshua and Lute and Awakening: Aversa and Owain) and in both cases they chose to be equal on game representation on the actual banner, giving the second unit for free.

Seriuosly there are a lot of reasons to be mad at IS, but if you get mad at how they handled Farfetched Heroes you are being a little ungrateful imho.

On that matter.

@Anacybele

1 hour ago, TheWill said:

I agree with you tbh. Farfetched was (IMO) unnecessary in comparison to Binding Blade/Tellius/Valentia that desperately need a banner. 

Ana, TheWill, I'm sorry if it seems like I'm being antagonistic with people that have a different opinion. I have no reason to start a fight, but since you are the two users who seems the most unsatisfied with the banner I want to tell you why you are looking at it the wrong way, and even if you don't like this specific banner, you will be happy that this tradition exists in the future. First of all it is a super good thing that both the Brave Heroes and the Farfetched Heroes seem to have a fixed period in which they appear, like they are a holyday. Because it gives people some kind of expectations, something to look forward to, just look at how many times we tried to guess who would be in such a banner. Without this kind of banner we are in the dark all the time and can only wait to see what IS decides to do, or vaguely guess something from the calendars. Second of all, I can't stress enough how important it is that WE decide who gets on these banners. Because make no mistake, even if you say that Kliff could have gotten in as part of an Echoes banner the truth is: we don't know that. Not only we don't know if we will have an Echoes banner in the foreseeable future (someone once told me that coming up with a new banner for Echoes is hard because the cast is small and all the "necessary" people are already in) but if we do have one we have no way of knowing if he will be in that banner. And don't tell me that "because he is the most popular Valentian still missing it's obvious he would be in the banner" because no, it's not. Nina was in the last New Heroes banner instead of other Fates units, even only counting children who are more popular than her. IS does whatever the heck they please, there's no consistency. And if we examine last year FH we discover something interesting. None of the 4 units (except maybe Joshua) would have fit with the theme of the banners released in the next 365 days. Mia would obviously come in a Greil Mercs banner, but we got no such banner, we got a Dawn Brigade one and a Crimean one. And I don't even know in what kind of banners Dorcas and Lute would come but probably not in the ONE (O - N - E) banner we received for their games. What would have happened is that we simply wouldn't have Joshua, Lute, Mia and Dorcas in the game. And I know that it's difficult to grasp why this sucks if you don't care for these units, so I will play a little game with you Ana (I don't know TheWill's preferences): let's pretend that Marcia got more votes than Aversa, and she was the one added this year. Let's also pretend that in 2019 we will get 4 Tellius banner (I'm being generous to make a point, I doubt we will get so much Tellius love), but these banners will be 2 Laguz banners, a banner with the remaining Greil Mercenaries and a banner with the rest of the Dawn Brigade. Finally, let's pretend that you can see the future and already know that the banners for Tellius won't have a slot that fits Marcia. If I told you that the banner that brought Marcia in the game is "pointless" and she should come in a different kind of banner, would you still agree?                                                                                Now, another reason why the Farfetched Heroes banners becoming a tradition is important in the long run is that people will get smarter. We already pretty much figured out how this shit works, and we will make "strategic" votes. This strategy can be limited to simply vote for our faves not in the game or can rely on the bandwagon effect and finding a "cause to fight for". Why do you think Kliff won? Who gives a damn about Kliff? He is the least important and interesting of the Ram kids. I don't doubt that there are people who love him, but so many to make him win? No, the real reason is that somebody noticed that he was the only villager from Ram not in the game and that wasn't "fair" and their argument convinced a lot of people who normally wouldn't give two shits about Kliff to vote for him. And if it happened once, it can happen again. Let's pretend that we get a Greil Merc's banner in november and everyone gets added except Rhys, because there was no room for him. All it will take is one #SaveTheGrelFamily #Rhys4CYL and he will get a TON of votes, he will be the new Kilff. CYL is literally the weapon we have to patch IS many mistakes. Yes, we can give them our feedback, but numbers speak louder than words. Let's pretend that IS is crazy and doesn't add Laguz even with V3. In the last CYL we placed a single beast unit in top 40 and they ignored the issue of beast units. Let's see if they can still ignore the issue when we place 5 (F-I-V-E) beast units in top 40 in CYL3, perhaps one even on the podium. What I'm trying to say is: don't underestimate how important it is to have control over banner, even if it's "only one" and don't underestimate how important your vote is. Don't sell away your vote folks. Next thing you know you are selling away your freedom. Next thing you know you are letting IS make all the decisions for you, and you don't matter to them. You are just a number for them.

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  • Ice Dragon changed the title to New Heroes Coming: October 23rd (Brave Redux) Loki, Kliff, and Owain
1 hour ago, Vince777 said:

Sure, but Ewan can also use Gleipnir, I guess.

Maybe Validar is the only character that really got screwed. Why does Morgan have Grima's Truth again?

 

Ok being super honest here

 

 

Did people like actually want Validar in the game? Because that is justification enough to slap his "supposed weapon" on a barely related more popular alternative

 

20 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

The only character that "deserves" to have Gleipnir is Lyon, but he already has Naglfar. Knoll, who is effectively Lyon's retainer, if I recall correctly, has no real claim to it other than being one of the three playable characters in the game who can use it after it is obtained.

Honestly this whole "X deserves weapon Y" thing is always silly. Case in point, why did Lilina deserves Forblaze again? It wasn't hers, theres a canon wielder of Forblaze already that is an established character, and shes not really relevant as a character(people always treat her as if she is Guinivere for some reason)

 

 

This isn't even Sigurd's case where his signature weapon is so meta that it got referenced in other series..... and Sigurd did not even get his signature weapon either

Edited by JSND Alter Dragon Boner
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I just realized Kliff is probably the first offensive unit a person would care to have as a neutral or even -Atk bane unit, just so you can secure the effects of Saggitae against as many units as possible.

...oh god, is Donnel gonna get a personal weapon with his own Underdog effect?

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