New Heroes Coming: October 23rd (Brave Redux) Loki, Kliff, and Owain

[Mau]

Well then, I definitely did not expect Loki to get in this quick, I had assumed they'd go for Charlotte instead. I guess that's cool for those who like her, I personally really don't so I'm just gonna skip this color.

Kliff though! Yasss a blue mage like I hoped, cause I desperately lack in the blue mage department. I just somehow don't like a lot of them, so I only got Linde and (only recently) L'Arachel. Happy his art is done by one of my fav artists too, though gotta agree with @Landmaster about not being a fan of the side profile in his attack art. Still looks good enough for me to try for him though.

Owain's cool, he was one of my favs in Awakening and I know a lot of people have waited for him. Would def have pulled for him a year ago, but now there's so many other sword infantry units I like that I just don't care to add another one except if they have really amazing art (e.g. Alm).

Aversa for GHB though, hell yessss. I like her simply because of her design really, she just looks awesome. So definitely happy we're getting her for free, though sad she's a red flier while I can build a whole team of red fliers by now, and the one flying mage I have is also red (H!Nowi) ^^;

[Emperor Hardin]

6 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

Honestly, was that even NEEDED? Aversa could literally have been a victim of the war that Chrom's father launched. She's 8 years older than Chrom, so she must have lived through that war. 

Exactly, Aversa's spotpass backstory just reaffirmed the whole "Grimleal=Always Bad" and "Ylisse=Always Good" theme.

[omegaxis1]

6 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Exactly, Aversa's spotpass backstory just reaffirmed the whole "Grimleal=Always Bad" and "Ylisse=Always Good" theme.

Not like the Grimleal religion itself were ever good, to begin with. Even if Aversa had the tragic backstory where she's a victim of the war, she is still serving a world-ending dragon and has to be stopped. Only, the way that the former Exalt handled it was just terribly wrong.

And honestly, it isn't like this is new in Fire Emblem. We've had the cases of there always being stuff being shown to be evil or just never really sympathetic in their depiction. 

SoV showed the current Duma Faithful all being a bunch of villainous guys. The Lopto Sect had this tragedy where they are all evil because of persecution, but hardly anyone honestly sympathizes with them, because the game never shows said persecution, and the current Lopto Sect are just a bunch of evil guys. They are worshipping a dragon that involves killing children after all. 

[Troykv]

7 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

SoV showed the current Duma Faithful all being a bunch of villainous guys. The Lopto Sect had this tragedy where they are all evil because of persecution, but hardly anyone honestly sympathizes with them, because the game never shows said persecution, and the current Lopto Sect are just a bunch of evil guys. They are worshipping a dragon that involves killing children after all. 

That only person that doesn't seem to hate Lopto Sect is a god.

[Vince777]

9 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

They are worshipping a dragon that involves killing children after all. 

So many of the world's oldest religions involved the sacrifice of children though. Were they evil?

Sometimes, it is just best to do what needs to be done to appease a God if you want to thrive or even just survive.

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, Vince777 said:

So many of the world's oldest religions involved the sacrifice of children though. Were they evil?

Sometimes, it is just best to do what needs to be done to appease a God if you want to thrive or even just survive.

 

If the game is depicting them as evil, and the guys in it aren't doing it because they are trying to appease their god, but just love to make people suffer, then yes, they are evil. Loptous didn't actually need sacrifices, he just hates humans and wanted them to suffer.

[Vince777]

9 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

If the game is depicting them as evil, and the guys in it aren't doing it because they are trying to appease their god, but just love to make people suffer, then yes, they are evil. Loptous didn't actually need sacrifices, he just hates humans and wanted them to suffer.

We really only get an outside perspective of the Sect though so it makes sense that they will be heavily vilified by others.  

It would be more interesting if we had one from the inside. I wish they did a bit more with Salem in Thracia776.

[omegaxis1]

11 minutes ago, Vince777 said:

We really only get an outside perspective of the Sect though so it makes sense that they will be heavily vilified by others.  

It would be more interesting if we had one from the inside. I wish they did a bit more with Salem in Thracia776.

Which is generally my problem. The idea of trying to say that the Lopto Sect feel justified because of some tragic past feels too forced if you don't even try to show us the persecution.

Depending on how old Salem is, he might never have even suffered from the persecution. 

[Rezzy]

I wonder if this is going to be "mirror universe" Loki, like what they did with Veronica, in case they plan on her being an antagonist in Book 3.

[Nym]

They took forever to put my boi Owain into the game after the dissapointement that is Odin.

[RexBolt]

55 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

I wonder if this is going to be "mirror universe" Loki, like what they did with Veronica, in case they plan on her being an antagonist in Book 3.

Yeah, this is the main reason i'm upset with Loki being here. She had all the build up since Book 1 to be the villain of Book 3, but her suddently giving up in the middle of Book 2 after so many story chapters and paralogues felt lazy and now with this it look's like she will just be dropped like the Muspell people. After all, we still don't have Bruno or normal Veronica.

[Rezzy]

3 minutes ago, RexBolt said:

Yeah, this is the main reason i'm upset with Loki being here. She had all the build up since Book 1 to be the villain of Book 3, but her suddently giving up in the middle of Book 2 after so many story chapters and paralogues felt lazy and now with this it look's like she will just be dropped like the Muspell people. After all, we still don't have Bruno or normal Veronica.

I think Bruno's CYL performance might have gotten hurt a bit by being completely absent for most of Book 2.

[silverserpent]

Ahhhh....do I go for Owain or Kliff first before seeing who the Legendary is this month? Ugh...i don't know!

[bottlegnomes]

5 hours ago, Vince777 said:

Won't lie. I like everything about Loki but her looks especially.

The manner by which people react so negatively to the sort of women I like (and refer to them in all sorts of pejorative and shaming ways) just gives me additional reasons to vote for them. These are often the same sort of assholes that will call them 'thot' or something similar. That, to be, is what is disgusting.

Up until the disaster (IMO) of an ending book 2 had, I would have definitely agreed with you. I still like Loki quite a bit, but I feel like she's sort of becoming the story's excuse to say it has a cohesive plot rather than making it one. But yeah, still hyped about her and definitely agree that she gets way too much crap for her appearance. I can understand not wanting blatant fan service to be the only thing, but I feel like Heroes is decent enough, or at least tasteful in a good chunk, that the occasional character like Loki is fine by me.

Anyway:

Loki - She seems like she'll be okay. I think she'll be the first gen 2 infantry staff unit meaning she'll probably have 151-2 BST, 42 of which goes to HP. From what I recall from chapters, def will be her dump stat and maybe something along the lines of 42/32/35/18/25? Seems like she'll be a solid unit, but nothing astounding in light of recent staff additions. At least given her staff and healers' A slot restrictions, the duel skill seems like it'll be a somewat decent choice for her even outside of arena.

Kliff - Eh. As a unit, he seems like he might be fun, and that animation is great, but I was never a huge fan of Kliff in SoV. Also not huge on his art. Would've honestly preferred Tobin get some better art and be a bow cav with some broken-ass bow, selfish as that may be.

Owain - Again, same as Kliff. His special seems like it'll be really good, though wrath doesn't seem like it'd necessarily be the best skill for him since he'll still be 1 CD short when in wrath range. His other skills seem to synergize quite well. Missletainn guarantees he'll proc immediately upon countering and his special and A skill are obvious and C fits in. Still, I liked him fine as a character, but not enough to really want him. Plus, I have enough infantry swordies I barely use.

All-in-all, Loki is a definite want, but over it's decent. Glad I went for Myrrh. I'm a bit glad that Haar didn't get in. He might have fit fine, but I certainly would've preferred to see him in a home-game banner with Jill and who knows who else.

[Ottservia]

5 hours ago, Vince777 said:

Won't lie. I like everything about Loki but her looks especially.

The manner by which people react so negatively to the sort of women I like (and refer to them in all sorts of pejorative and shaming ways) just gives me additional reasons to vote for them. These are often the same sort of assholes that will call them 'thot' or something similar. That, to be, is what is disgusting.

I won't vote for Loki now that she's gotten in so my votes might now be transfered to Charlotte. Or maybe Camilla if people freak out again about her and start a campaign so she does not win.
  

Ok so while I cannot speak for everyone, the problem I have with the popularity of characters like camilla, loki, and tharja is that I generally feel like IS is disrespecting me as a fan. I mean I have nothing against fanservice when done properly(I.e seasonal banners, charlotte, senran kagura, etc.) but with characters like these I feel IS is just thinks that they can just make me like(probably not the best term but I can’t think of any better way to explain it) a character by just slapping on some big tits and a seductive yandere personality with really no rhyme or reason beyond just otaku fetish pandering. it’s just so blatent and obvious what they’re trying to do and that honestly bothers me. I mean I get it sex sells but could you at least make an effort to try and write an actual character and not just some waifu pandering bullshit. That’s not to say loki, camilla, or tharja are bad characters or that I dislike them quite the contrary actually. I think they’re decent characters in their own right. It’s just that the fanservicey(leering camera angles, obsessive and clingy, seductive) elements of their characters just feels so tacked on and lazy and doesn’t integrate themselves well with the other aspects of their characters. Again I have nothing against fanservice when done properly but here it just feels arbitrary and there to pander. It’s as if IS thinks all we care about is T&A when really that isn’t the case(at least for me anyway) cause I know there are plenty of people who like these characters(myself included) for more than just their fanservicey aspects I don’t think IS realizes this(and if they do they don’t seem to care) and honestly that irks me quite a bit. Anyway rant over. 

 

Though I cannot wait to summon for Owain!!!

[GrandeRampel]

22 minutes ago, Otts486 said:

Ok so while I cannot speak for everyone, the problem I have with the popularity of characters like camilla, loki, and tharja is that I generally feel like IS is disrespecting me as a fan. I mean I have nothing against fanservice when done properly(I.e seasonal banners, charlotte, senran kagura, etc.) but with characters like these I feel IS is just thinks that they can just make me like(probably not the best term but I can’t think of any better way to explain it) a character by just slapping on some big tits and a seductive yandere personality with really no rhyme or reason beyond just otaku fetish pandering. it’s just so blatent and obvious what they’re trying to do and that honestly bothers me. I mean I get it sex sells but could you at least make an effort to try and write an actual character and not just some waifu pandering bullshit. 

For how I see it, Camilla and Tharja (and Nowi) have no excuses for dressing the way they do. For what we know of their personality, it makes no sense. It makes even less sense when people seem to not recognize how STUPID their clothing is. It's not a deal-breaker but everyone agrees that if they dressed more modestly it would be for the better and nothing would be lost. It doesn't ruin the character and many people can get over it quickly (I'm one of them), but since other people have more of a problem with it I wish they would stop making fanservicey designs where they don't belong just so there can be less pointless arguing about them. 

However, I don't agree when we talk about characters like Loki or Aversa. They have all the reasons in the world to dress like that, it's actually complementary to their personality.

They ARE the sexy dark magic seductress, an archetype that exists at least since FE7 and Sonia. It's one thing to hate sexy clothes when they don't fit, it's another to hate them when they do fit.

Edited October 23, 2018 by GrandeRampel

[Interdimensional Observer]

5 minutes ago, GrandeRampel said:

They ARE the sexy dark magic seductress, an archetype that exists at least since FE7 and Sonia. It's one thing to hate sexy clothes when they don't fit, it's another to hate them when they do fit.

And then we run into the question of "Does every game need some sort of sultry female?". To which to be fair, I must then ask myself "Does every game need some sort of -something- male?".

 

But let us not risk this topic going too far in this direction.

[Eilanzer]

i will have some self control and reserve my orbs for legendary banner that is just around the corner... Ç_Ç

[GrandeRampel]

2 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

And then we run into the question of "Does every game need some sort of sultry female?". To which to be fair, I must then ask myself "Does every game need some sort of -something- male?".

 

But let us not risk this topic going too far in this direction.

Well, yes but you can make the same argument for every single archetype that gets repeated over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over again with every game. What I'm trying to say is that while the seductress archetype doesn't deserve a "get out of jail free" card, it also doesn't deserve to be considered the only archetype that is getting stale and dull.

 

P.S.: I was wrong. The archetype is way older than what I said. Nuibaba on the NES exists.There really isn't a single archetype that doesn't come from a Kaga game...

[Humanoid]

2 minutes ago, GrandeRampel said:

P.S.: I was wrong. The archetype is way older than what I said. Nuibaba on the NES exists.There really isn't a single archetype that doesn't come from a Kaga game...

This?

[Interdimensional Observer]

2 minutes ago, Humanoid said:

This?

Yeah, Nuibaba as a seductress was DEFINITELY an SoV invention. That might as well be Medusa's husband.

[Jingle Jangle]

10 minutes ago, GrandeRampel said:

For how I see it, Camilla and Tharja (and Nowi) have no excuses for dressing the way they do. For what we know of their personality, it makes no sense. It makes even less sense when people seem to not recognize how STUPID their clothing is. It's not a deal-breaker but everyone agrees that if they dressed more modestly it would be for the better and nothing would be lost. It doesn't ruin the character and many people can get over it quickly (I'm one of them), but since other people have more of a problem with it I wish they would stop making fanservicey designs where they don't belong just so there can be less pointless arguing about them. 

However, I don't agree when we talk about characters like Loki or Aversa. They have all the reasons in the world to dress like that, it's actually complementary to their personality.

They ARE the sexy dark magic seductress, an archetype that exists at least since FE7 and Sonia. It's one thing to hate sexy clothes when they don't fit, it's another to hate them when they do fit.

In the Summer Scramble dlc for Awakening.

Quote

Cordelia
Uh-oh. Don't look now, but I think you're getting a tan...

Tharja
What? How? I've barely been outside for five minutes!

Cordelia
I guess with your complexion, even a little sun makes a big difference. Besides, it's kind of inevitable when you're walking around half-naked like that.

Tharja
Half-naked?! How dare you! Did you not notice my cloak? It's not like I'm strutting around in my underwear like these...beach strumpets!

Later on 

Quote

Cordelia
Hi, Tharja. Feeling a little less self-conscious about your outfit yet?

Tharja
Very much so. I attached a de-shaming talisman to my back, and now I feel just fine about it.

At least Cordelia does mention Tharja's outfit, she's sensitive to criticism. As for Camilla in the past she used to worn Beruka's  armor, and that's changed for what ever reason, Nowi is the odd one form the bunch since there isn't a definitive reason for it.

[GrandeRampel]

4 minutes ago, Humanoid said:

This?

Okay now this... this is what I call unfair. If Nuibaba in HD looks so much better why the fuck does Jedah look like Lord Voldemort's ugly twin brother. Double standards much?

And yes, with this Sonia gets back the title of mother of her own archetype.

[Tybrosion]

23 minutes ago, GrandeRampel said:

Okay now this... this is what I call unfair. If Nuibaba in HD looks so much better why the fuck does Jedah look like Lord Voldemort's ugly twin brother. Double standards much?

Because he needed to look as obviously evil as possible so as to make Celica come off as Valentia’s biggest dumbass.

He also belongs to Gharnef’s archetype, and those guys tend to be rather...let’s say challenged in the beauty department.

[Interdimensional Observer]

4 minutes ago, Tybrosion said:

He also belongs to Gharnef’s archetype, and those guys tend to be rather...let’s say challenged in the beauty department.

Unless you happen to be the best Gharnef ever, who outsourced the ugliness to an inferior figure.

Really though, do we need to see the evil in their hearts always worn so readily on their faces?