Does the Style of Awakening Point to Its Place in the Timeline?

[anikom15]

We all know Awakening takes place about two thousand years after Mystery of the Emblem, and that made me think about the state of the world and technology in Awakening. For comparison, two thousand years ago was AD 18, in which the Roman Empire existed. Obviously, technology has developed very slowly in the world compared to our own, as there is no gun powder in Awakening.

So I began to wonder if there is anything that really points to Chrom's world being different from Marth's. Thematically, the time travel aspects, as well as Walhart's humanistic ideals, does show a sense that things are perhaps modernizing. One common modern theme is that kingdoms and monarchies are doomed to fall, to be replaced by republics, but we don't really see that in the game. Valm is in a feudal state before Walhart comes around, but nobody really comments on whether that's a good or bad thing, and Ylisse and Plegia have essentially the same types of government, with the only differentiator being that one worships good while the other evil. This is certainly more Mediaeval than Modern. In Mediaevalism, religion is what determines good and evil, whereas Modernism focuses on tyranny vs. liberty, and even so the idea of good and evil is questioned to begin with. Unfortunately this is about all I can say here as the game doesn't flesh out the world very much. It leaves much to the imagination, for better or worse.

Anyway, besides the textual aspects, I think the art and music support a Modernist theme too. The soundtrack reminds me of contemporary Classical composers like John Adams and Steve Reich (but not as moronic). For example, a friend described the preparations music to me as 'insurance commercial music'. Although this genre might be called 'postmodern' instead of modern, I don't think the distinction really matters here. It's not period music, nor is it Romantic, and that's the element that makes it fit for a modern theme.

I think the art is the biggest thing, particularly if we look at the armor. Stahl, Kellam, and Sully's armor looks very smooth and lacks any indications of damage or wear. It looks more like it came off an assembly line than hammered by a grisly blacksmith. The same goes when we look at generic portraits, especially the sniper's, who looks like he could be straight out of Star Wars. In fact, the design of much of the armor reminds me of Old Republic-era Star Wars and the 'millennium' design aesthetic in the 2000s. Other armors, like Chrom's and the mercs, don't look quite so outlandish, but the aspects are still there. The non-armor clothing, such as Frederick's suit, or the Avatar's robe, look mostly 16th century-inspired, rather than Mediaeval.

Now, it's easy to blame these aspects not on an actual thematic ideal but rather just the inclinations of artists, but I don't think that applies here at all. The same artists and composers for Awakening were featured in Fates, and the styles could not be more different in terms of what I described previously. In Fates, we have period music, to the point where it annoys listeners (read the comments on the Paradise (light) YouTube video), and the armor and clothes is more Mediaeval for Nohr, while Hoshido is pretty standard Feudal Japan. I don't think the design choices in Awakening were just from the biases of the artists.

That's my analysis. I'm actually a staunch Mediaevalist in many aspects, but that didn't stop me from enjoying Awakening's style. It's kind of refreshing, but it also makes me somewhat sad we didn't get to see more of what Chrom's world is like, what extent of technological progress has been made.

Edited October 24, 2018 by anikom15

[Slumber]

I like to think that the presence of magic and supernatural elements keeps the world perpetually stuck in the medieval period. These fantastical elements stunt any progress that isn't socially-linked.

There are instances of technological advancement, but it's limited. Archanea straight up had motorized engines, far and away the most technologically impressive thing we've ever seen in a FE game, but come 2000 years later, and it's seemingly been forgotten.

The cleaner look of Awakening could be attributed to people simply getting much better at the things they have to work with in their world. They might not have automation, but they may have developed methods to quickly and cheaply produce high quality, clean armor. Or the art director had his head up his ass, which is probably more likely.

Edited October 23, 2018 by Slumber

[Hecatia]

1 hour ago, Slumber said:

I like to think that the presence of magic and supernatural elements keeps the world perpetually stuck in the medieval period. These fantastical elements stunt any progress that isn't socially-linked.

You know what? This could be it. After all, you don't need to invent a lighter if people can learn to create fire by reading books and they can end up, let's say, hired by a blacksmith.

But it's quite baffling that Ballistae were forgotten in a 2000 year jump but Armads ended up in Future Archanea and Outrealm shenanigans aren't a viable explanation.

[Hawkwing]

Considering that Grima once brought worldwide destruction 1000 years before Awakening, it isn't a stretch to say that the world had to rebuild itself, and has reached a medieval level technology by the time Awakening comes around. It does appear to have made some social progress, which is understandable as that's not always related to technology, and the presence of magic means that certain inventions would be slower to develop than they were in real life, if they're even made at all.

As for why Ballistae aren't a thing, I'd honestly have to chalk that up to the real-life development of the game, where IS didn't include them either due to time/cost constraints and/or worries about how they would affect the level design.

[NinjaMonkey]

39 minutes ago, 1% Critical Hit said:

But it's quite baffling that Ballistae were forgotten in a 2000 year jump but Armads ended up in Future Archanea and Outrealm shenanigans aren't a viable explanation.

Outrealm shenanigans are always a viable explanation.

[Ivy Wife Supremacy]

This is a damn good topic makes me think I'm definitely sure its because magic is all over and is very convenient which make advanced technological progress stunted because everything needed to live and do ALOT of things for people is there in those worlds I mean Anna had a microphone tome, a tome that records sounds and captures pictures in one of the scambles and from Heroes summer paralouges if that doesn't answer the question I don't know what else will.

Even time travel and outrealms are already technologically very advance as is.

Edited October 24, 2018 by Regal Edelgard Axe Master

[RexBolt]

1 hour ago, 1% Critical Hit said:

You know what? This could be it. After all, you don't need to invent a lighter if people can learn to create fire by reading books and they can end up, let's say, hired by a blacksmith.

But it's quite baffling that Ballistae were forgotten in a 2000 year jump but Armads ended up in Future Archanea and Outrealm shenanigans aren't a viable explanation.

I always believed that too. 

Now, about Ballistae, i haven't played New Mystery yet, but i was told that there it's explained that the fruit used to produce their fuel went extinct during Marth's time, so Ballisticians existed on Shadow Dragon/Book 1 but by the time New Mystery/Book 2 the old ballisticians took on other classes while the Ballistae that still exists is enemy-only, but unable to move.

[Hecatia]

2 hours ago, Regal Edelgard Axe Master said:

mean Anna had a microphone tome, a tome that records sounds and captures pictures in one of the scambles and from Heroes summer paralouges if that doesn't answer the question I don't know what else will.

Even time travel and outrealms are already technologically very advance as is.

It's definitely magic taking over! In a good way.

1 hour ago, RexBolt said:

Now, about Ballistae, i haven't played New Mystery yet, but i was told that there it's explained that the fruit used to produce their fuel went extinct during Marth's time, so Ballisticians existed on Shadow Dragon/Book 1 but by the time New Mystery/Book 2 the old ballisticians took on other classes while the Ballistae that still exists is enemy-only, but unable to move.

Oh, I think one character that was a ballistician explained that to the avatar! I think that could be a viable explanation, but just for some years, they could find another source of fuel to make Ballistae work again :o

[Hanes]

2 hours ago, Slumber said:

There are instances of technological advancement, but it's limited. Archanea straight up had motorized engines, far and away the most technologically impressive thing we've ever seen in a FE game, but come 2000 years later, and it's seemingly been forgotten.

That is actually not so uncommon, at least in the retrospective of centuries; if we go back to the bronze age in the real world everything was at it's best yet with arquitecture, religion, society, economy and very intricate trade links like the modern world but then for whatever reason civilizations fell and everything went bad again until the classical age when the greeks came back up and brought the world back from the dark ages. And I do not mean medieval ages, I mean the time between 1200 BC and 5th century BC which almost lost the written word.

So in summary, tchnology sometimes gets lost in the fall of civilizations

Or what if actually it's just that Archaneans found a replacement? In Awakening we have Mire, a long range tome, while in FE1 and 2 we do not, it is possible they simply found a replacement which happens to be magic tomes and they are more effective since it targets resistance rather than defense so it usually does more damage

 

Edited October 24, 2018 by Critical Sniper

[Dandy Druid]

What's even trippier is that Genealogy takes place a thousand years before Marth's timeline, which makes me wonder how technologically advanced Jugdral is. (unless a natural disaster occurred).

[anikom15]

If the ballistician is canon in Fates, and assuming Nohr and Hoshido exist in the same world as Archanaea, then we might argue that the mobile ballista was perhaps recently developed during that time, although the class description says the class is otherworldy, I have no idea what the original Japanese says.

[RexBolt]

9 hours ago, anikom15 said:

If the ballistician is canon in Fates, and assuming Nohr and Hoshido exist in the same world as Archanaea, then we might argue that the mobile ballista was perhaps recently developed during that time, although the class description says the class is otherworldy, I have no idea what the original Japanese says.

I don't think there's a connection between the 2 worlds besides the Outrelms. Specially since the Ballistae is a outrelm thing. I don't think it's original of that world.

[Ertrick36]

9 hours ago, Dandy Druid said:

What's even trippier is that Genealogy takes place a thousand years before Marth's timeline, which makes me wonder how technologically advanced Jugdral is. (unless a natural disaster occurred).

Velthomer developed an advanced barbecue machine out of Valflame.  Freege has invented electricity, and are the masters of the internet.  Silesse made Jugdral skip the fossil fuels and head straight for renewable energy with their mountain wind mages.  Miletos invented modern classist warfare and oppressive capitalism, because f*** them.  And Verdane winds up being that third-world nation people only care about so that they can plunder its resources.

Or the nations of Jugdral invented nukes and the houses all blew each other up.  Because I feel like they have a hard time being at peace for more than a hundred years, even after victories like the one Seliph's liberation force scored over the Lopt Sect.  After all, pretty much the same thing happened a hundred years prior with the Twelve Crusaders, yet the noble families all wound up at each other's throats a few generations later.

14 hours ago, Slumber said:

I like to think that the presence of magic and supernatural elements keeps the world perpetually stuck in the medieval period. These fantastical elements stunt any progress that isn't socially-linked.

I feel like if there's any reason those elements would stagnate progress, it's because their ready access to magical elements makes them so self-destructive that they never get passed a certain point before they reduce themselves to cinders and set themselves back a few hundred years-or-so.  Or simply the threat of world-eating dragons keeps humanity from advancing.  Either way, it'd have to be because civilization falls too rapidly for it to progress past a certain stage, not due to, say, a lack of necessity.

With the power of magic, I could definitely see that scenario being plausible.

[PeaceRibbon]

I feel like regarding magic and technology as two different things is something of a poor way to look at the world's progression in the context of Awakening's world. I've heard it said that even the very clothes we wear can be considered technology from the right perspective. I think the people talking about the ruin of civilization are spot on as to what happened to stunt the world's advances. Granted, you would think the people of Awakening's world would have done a little more experimentation in their spare time, but ehh, gotta keep your fantasy setting in tact. 

[Dandy Druid]

17 hours ago, Ertrick36 said:

Velthomer developed an advanced barbecue machine out of Valflame.  Freege has invented electricity, and are the masters of the internet.  Silesse made Jugdral skip the fossil fuels and head straight for renewable energy with their mountain wind mages.  Miletos invented modern classist warfare and oppressive capitalism, because f*** them.  And Verdane winds up being that third-world nation people only care about so that they can plunder its resources.

Or the nations of Jugdral invented nukes and the houses all blew each other up.  Because I feel like they have a hard time being at peace for more than a hundred years, even after victories like the one Seliph's liberation force scored over the Lopt Sect.  After all, pretty much the same thing happened a hundred years prior with the Twelve Crusaders, yet the noble families all wound up at each other's throats a few generations later.

I feel like if there's any reason those elements would stagnate progress, it's because their ready access to magical elements makes them so self-destructive that they never get passed a certain point before they reduce themselves to cinders and set themselves back a few hundred years-or-so.  Or simply the threat of world-eating dragons keeps humanity from advancing.  Either way, it'd have to be because civilization falls too rapidly for it to progress past a certain stage, not due to, say, a lack of necessity.

With the power of magic, I could definitely see that scenario being plausible.

Jugdral be shooting itself in the foot damn.

In general though, humanity's biggest tech booms either occur during a war or right before a war. It's possible that no technology was sponsored to be made because there was simply not enough war to fuel the desire to be innovative.