Gramork Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 I'm curious, which do you guys consider to be a more fun challenge. No braves allowed but you can use dlc or vice versa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soly Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 To be perfectly frank, I'm tempted to just shoot for no DLC just for less grinding out kid unit stats. It also requires you to be a bit more careful with certain enemy units (other than just longbow spam). In practice I feel that no braves reduces your damage more in the general case, so it's harder to kill mooks, but mooks are pretty easy to demolish for the most part. It does open up some fun options like picking Mjolnir or Mystletainn for 100% Dual Strike runs on certain units; or Laurent's 100% critbuild; or Levin Swords and Bolt Axes to hit through Aegis+ against someone like Thronie. As well as easing some units into higher speed tiers with weapons like Ephraim's Lance which carries +2 Spe bonus. And no more Celica's Gale meta means setup is so. much. easier. Not being locked into Brave weapons opens up some more class variety, too - you'll never see a War Monk otherwise, for example. No DLC means you drop Limit Breaker + Rally Heart + Aggressor, so you're not only doing less damage but need to push harder to make things like speed tiers and survival thresholds, so you have to be more careful. That makes a bunch of difference in setup - maybe you're dropping something that's otherwise important for a skill like Defender, which eases you above a certain threshold. That may make your unit better for someone like Anna, but it also makes you worse against mooks, so there's a tradeoff. In terms of actual challenge, there's not much contest, it's no other DLC. No Brave weapons opens up more variety, but also takes away some tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gramork Posted October 26, 2018 Author Share Posted October 26, 2018 wicked thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChickenWings Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 I am interested in this 100% Crit build... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soly Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 (edited) Lon'qu!Laurent and Gregor!Laurent (Gaius!Laurent can do it too but is otherwise an irredeemable pairing) can pull this off - Laurent needs to inherit Vantage and Skl +2 mod. Avatar!Laurent notably cannot due to the build requiring Solidarity on an S-support partner. Set is Laurent @ Sorceror, Vantage/Vengeance/Wrath/Focus/Gamble, with the Ruin tome. S-support with Avatar-F, Avatar!Lucina, or any female child of Avatar-M. Lucina is preferred; her skillset should be Dual Support+/Anathema/Solidarity/2 filler skills, Dual Strike+ and Tomefaire are probably preferred - DStr+ miiiight save your butt if you fail to get a crit-kill on an enemy (with more than 55 Lck or Aegis+). At 1hp with appropriate Rally skills (offhand I don't recall if Rally Heart is required but I suspect not), this set is a guaranteed OHKO on any enemy with 55 Lck and no Aegis+. I guess if you drop Laurent's Vantage you can use the set as a tactical nuke instead of a traditional V/V unit. Gaius' Fighter inheritance would then offer Zeal for +5 Crit, allowing you to outright kill any enemy with 60 Lck who lacks Aegis+ or Vantage+. The Vantage set is probably more broadly applicable, though. Edited October 27, 2018 by soly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChickenWings Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 Doesn't Henry!Nah have a similar crit build? Can Libra!Inigo also pull it off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soly Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 Henry!Nah's critbuild is different and doesn't reach 100% crit, nor is it a Vantage/Vengeance setup. Mostly it's used in conjunction with Vengeance counterattacking as a lure - she's mostly notable for having Vengeance/Wrath/Focus/Anathema/Dual Support+, though frequently she'll be running Tomefaire over one of them - over Anathema if her partner is contributing that Aura, and over DSp+ if not. She has to give up one more of those for Limit Breaker if DLC skills are allowed, so it sort of gets worse there. Beside Morgan-M as a Sage, she can pick up 43 crit with critforged Celica's Gale (while leading) and a nasty 73 crit backed by critforged Katarina's Bolt. If you're banning Brave weapons in your run, this can get pretty nasty pretty fast. The set I have written here is Henry!Nah @ Valkyrie, Tomefaire/Vengeance/Wrath/Focus/Dual Support+; beside Morgan-M \@ Sage, Galeforce/Astra/Luna/Solidarity/Anathema. You'll immediately notice that Morgan's dropped his Tomefaire to run Anathema for Nah. Trading Dual Support+ for Anathema on Nah results in a net loss of 5 crit. Up to you if that's worth it. Note that while Nah is supporting, she drops 10 crit from the Dual System (15 if running DSp+) which is going to Morgan-M instead. The reason I'm using Morgan-M here is because he has both Galeforce and Solidarity, plus he's male and therefore able to S-support Nah. It helps that her support with him reads pretty nicely. Libra!Inigo has access to all the relevant skills (Vantage/Vengeance/Wrath/Gamble/Focus), but his Skl modifier is too low to guarantee 100% crit - you need +4 Skl to pull it off, and I think Libra!Inigo only carries +2 Skl, so he only hits 99 crit. @ChickenWings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChickenWings Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 (edited) How restrictive is No DLC Apotheosis (normal and secret)? Edited November 12, 2018 by ChickenWings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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