1 more DLC characters, place your bets now. Seems we're only getting third parties this time round

[Slumber]

8 minutes ago, Lightchao42 said:

Not to mention that the stated reason of "he was too late to be included" obviously doesn't apply to DLC, so there's no reason for Sakurai to not include Rex if he wants to.

This is Sakurai.

For all we know, "He was too late to be included" might also mean "Here's his costume and that's all you're getting".

Piranha Plant also makes this whole deal weird, since it also begs the question of "Well why Piranha Plant and not Rex?"

Edited November 4, 2018 by Slumber

[Florete]

16 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Not once did ever hear of that but ok. And even if they did, it doesn't chance the fact that the Rex costume is much more detailed than any other Mii Costume? Fully animated Aegis Sword? Check. Actual model of Azurda from XC2? Check.

No other Mii Costume has that.

Other costumes do have unique swords. Regardless, why does this matter? They put some effort into something that needs to be paid for.

[The DanMan]

10 minutes ago, Lightchao42 said:

Not to mention that the stated reason of "he was too late to be included" obviously doesn't apply to DLC, so there's no reason for Sakurai to not include Rex if he wants to.

I actually got beaten over the head on Smashboards when I brought that up because it's apparantely not an uncommon industry practice to plan DLC for major titles long before launch. Which would make a lot of sense in a particular instance: if the chosen characters were 3rd party and/or 1st party marketing. Which is exactly what Smash 4's DLC newcomers were: 3 3rd parties and 1 marketing-based 1st party character.

Rex is kinda old hat from a marketing perspective; Xenoblade 2 is nearly a year old and support for it has been cut off, with Monolith Soft well underway on their next project. Nintendo has more games launching within the DLC time frame that could be promoted-- the two obvious ones being 3 Houses and the Gen VIII Pokemon games. If we get any 1st party newcomers, it'll be those two.

Put me down for some mix of a 3 Houses protagonist, a Gen VIII Pokemon, Sora, Steve/a Minecraft character, someone from Dragalia Lost or Granblue, Monster Hunter, and a Bethesda character.

Edited November 4, 2018 by The DanMan

[Jedi]

I believe that all 5 or that 4 of the 5 DLC characters (Plant is a bonus 6th) will be 3rd party DLC. 

Most likely from Capcom, SE, Microsoft, Bethesda and potentially Namco or Koei

[Jotari]

12 hours ago, Slumber said:

This is Sakurai.

For all we know, "He was too late to be included" might also mean "Here's his costume and that's all you're getting".

Piranha Plant also makes this whole deal weird, since it also begs the question of "Well why Piranha Plant and not Rex?"

Considering how far into development Piranha Plant is and it's not considered part of the "Paid DLC" (even though people who don't preorder the game will almost certainly have to pay for him, either that or he'll just be free and not really a preorder bonus like they claim, or even worse, people who don't preorder him will be forever unable to use him), I think it's clear he was intended to be part of the base game and got pushed to DLC due to the release date. That is to say, Piranha Plant was probably planned from the start or at the very least has been shown to be considered a separate development cycle to the five planned DLC characters.

And now we know Chrom also has a costume despite being a playable character, so the rule of being a costume means they can't be a playable character doesn't exist.

Since Rex seems to be such a hot button topic, would people rather see a dedicated thread arguing over his status (we could have a poll too to see what most people think)?  It's not entirely unrelated to this thread to be considered a derail, but it might kind of eclipse any other things people want to talk about.

[Lightchao42]

53 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Since Rex seems to be such a hot button topic, would people rather see a dedicated thread arguing over his status (we could have a poll too to see what most people think)?  It's not entirely unrelated to this thread to be considered a derail, but it might kind of eclipse any other things people want to talk about.

Eh, I think everyone has said everything they wanted to at this point so I don't find it necessary.

Besides we won't know for sure about Rex's status until either all the DLC is released or Sakurai says in his next Famitsu column "he's not going to be added in the Fighters Pass so we hope you like his Mii outfit."

[Perkilator]

One character I definitely wish could be part of the DLC is Alm (assuming he’s not in). His bet at this point, I suppose, is as a semi-clone of Roy with a Silver Bow.

[Shiki]

I don't think Sakurai announced a ballot or something else where fans can input their opinion on potential newcomers.
With that in mind the team probably has some vague concept what 5 fighters they want to focus on for the next year.

1. Xenoblade 2 character
Even if it is not Rex, Zeke or anyone else from the main cast a XC2 representative isn't out of question yet. I actually consider Jin a possible candidate due to his importance in the main game and practically being the protagonist in the TGC DLC. Also he is totally the Sephiroth to Cloud. There is the small thing that he is probably easier to implement than any of the Drivers due to him being "alone".
Never mind that Monolith Soft has such a close working relationship with Nintendo nowadays. Having only Shulk would be very strange and XC2 was very successful. The whole "the game came too late" shouldn't apply to the DLC anymore and it would fit with the idea of Sakurai having determined his five candidates.

2. Another retro classic
Geno from Mario RPG came up a lot, others imo include Chrono from Chrono Trigger or the Black Mage from FF (coincidentally everything from SE). Ultimate includes so many iconic retro characters like Simon or K.Rool, so having more of them is a natural conclusion.

3. Ubisoft representative (aka the Rabbits)
Both Kingdom Battle and Star Link were co-developed by Nintendo and Ubisoft, so there is some cooperation between them. I was expecting a Rabbit taking Piranha Plant's spot of being a "wtf character" but that didn't happen. Leaves the DLC to make something out of this and there is certainly some funky potential in them and it would make sense to keep the good relationship between then. Kingdom Battle has some Spirits in this game after all (like Rabbit Peach).

4. Namco representative
Probably unlikely because Smash already has Pacman but Namco games offer a lot of possible fighters, ranging from Tales (iirc Nintendo consoles had Symphonia, Abyss, Phantasia and Vesperia next year), Xenosaga and any of their fighting games (Tekken, Soul Calibur). DMC and RE are also possible though the former less so (as it had no presence on Nintendo consoles aside from Project X Zone). I wouldn't expect it but it wouldn't be a surprise either.

5. Banjo & Kazooie
As much as I want this I find this to be the most unlikely one. Microsoft keeps holding on their rights and Nintendo isn't exactly a business partner with them. When it comes to the console market they are at each other throats for the 2nd seat after Sony, so it's not like any collab between them would happen.

[Anomalocaris]

I really hope the DLC isn't just a tidal wave of 3rd-party characters again. It was my biggest complaint with Smash 4's DLC.

I feel like we have more than enough already, especially with Richter and Ken Echo Fighters padding it out further.

[Johann]

Thinking more about it, if the base game has practically nothing for new content from Square Enix, specifically Spirits, Mii outfits, and songs for Midgar, then I don't expect a DLC character from them cuz they're so reluctant to share anything, especially compared to Capcom, Konami, etc. Geno seems like he's the only character with a chance since they already managed to get him before, but at this point, I'm expecting that they'll only bring back his Mii outfit, we'll get a Spirit fight, and that'll be it. Same with Chocobo, which I only just now remembered had an outfit. I'd like to be wrong since there are a lot of great SE characters to pick from, but I think they let people down more often than not these days.

[Jotari]

6 hours ago, The Priest said:

Never mind that Monolith Soft has such a close working relationship with Nintendo nowadays. Having only Shulk would be very strange and XC2 was very successful. The whole "the game came too late" shouldn't apply to the DLC anymore and it would fit with the idea of Sakurai having determined his five candidates.

Is not really accurate to say Monolith Soft has a close working relationship with Nintendo, they're literally owned by Nintendo. It's like saying Intelligent Systems has a close working relationship with Nintendo. It's basically a subbranch of the same company.

4 hours ago, Johann said:

Thinking more about it, if the base game has practically nothing for new content from Square Enix, specifically Spirits, Mii outfits, and songs for Midgar, then I don't expect a DLC character from them cuz they're so reluctant to share anything, especially compared to Capcom, Konami, etc. Geno seems like he's the only character with a chance since they already managed to get him before, but at this point, I'm expecting that they'll only bring back his Mii outfit, we'll get a Spirit fight, and that'll be it. Same with Chocobo, which I only just now remembered had an outfit. I'd like to be wrong since there are a lot of great SE characters to pick from, but I think they let people down more often than not these days.

I'm really expecting something from Octopath Traveler, and I'm kind of baffled no one else is talking or speculating about it. It is Squares big game on the Switch this year, I thought it was pretty popular (personally I haven't played it, so I don't know who or what from it should be included in Smash, but I assumed other people were playing it). They'd no doubt want to use Smash Bros. to promote it.

Edited November 5, 2018 by Jotari

[Book Bro]

After seeing Chrom is also back as a Mii outfit, I feel like Rex could still be DLC. If he's one of the first to be released then he wouldn't feel so outdated. Is it realistic to expect at least 1 DLC pack in the first half of next year? 

[Jave]

35 minutes ago, Book Bro said:

After seeing Chrom is also back as a Mii outfit, I feel like Rex could still be DLC. If he's one of the first to be released then he wouldn't feel so outdated. Is it realistic to expect at least 1 DLC pack in the first half of next year? 

They did state the DLC will be released up to February 2020, so I'm expecting something like this:

Pack 1: June 2019
Pack 2: August 2019
Pack 3: October 2019
Pack 4: December 2019
Pack 5: February 2020

So yeah, I think the first DLC pack will barely make the first half of 2019.

[Florete]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Is not really accurate to say Monolith Soft has a close working relationship with Nintendo, they're literally owned by Nintendo. It's like saying Intelligent Systems has a close working relationship with Nintendo. It's basically a subbranch of the same company.

I'm really expecting something from Octopath Traveler, and I'm kind of baffled no one else is talking or speculating about it. It is Squares big game on the Switch this year, I thought it was pretty popular (personally I haven't played it, so I don't know who or what from it should be included in Smash, but I assumed other people were playing it). They'd no doubt want to use Smash Bros. to promote it.

It's a little late for DLC to promote a game that released months ago.

I've played and enjoyed Octopath Traveler but no one in that game really screams "Smash material" to me. There's no one protagonist, not even an implied one (you can outright skip any of the eight if you want to), so it would be up to Sakurai to just pick whoever he feels best about. 

[Jotari]

55 minutes ago, Florete said:

It's a little late for DLC to promote a game that released months ago.

I've played and enjoyed Octopath Traveler but no one in that game really screams "Smash material" to me. There's no one protagonist, not even an implied one (you can outright skip any of the eight if you want to), so it would be up to Sakurai to just pick whoever he feels best about. 

A game that's still available to the public can be promoted and expect a boost in sales. I'm not certain Sakurai will include something from Octopath Traveler, but if he did I'm certain it would lead to a tangible boost in sales purely from more people being exposed to it (I think I myself would be a perfect example, if the game appeared in Smash and looked interesting enough then I'd probably check it out).

[Johann]

16 hours ago, Jotari said:

I'm really expecting something from Octopath Traveler, and I'm kind of baffled no one else is talking or speculating about it. It is Squares big game on the Switch this year, I thought it was pretty popular (personally I haven't played it, so I don't know who or what from it should be included in Smash, but I assumed other people were playing it). They'd no doubt want to use Smash Bros. to promote it.

An issue with Octopath is that they'd have to either pick one of the eight to make the star, or pull a Bowser Jr and include them all as alts, which would be really awesome but I don't think they'd do, especially since they're of higher detail design. I wouldn't object to them being in though, and I also wouldn't rule out some Mii outfits for those, FF, or Bravely Default jobs.

[Jotari]

13 hours ago, Johann said:

An issue with Octopath is that they'd have to either pick one of the eight to make the star, or pull a Bowser Jr and include them all as alts, which would be really awesome but I don't think they'd do, especially since they're of higher detail design. I wouldn't object to them being in though, and I also wouldn't rule out some Mii outfits for those, FF, or Bravely Default jobs.

Ah, that's why it's called Octopath. And here I was thinking it had something to do with octopuses. Still, I don't think it'd be altogether strange if they picked one character out of the eight. Falco really has absolutely no reason to be in over Slippy or Peppy when it comes to Team Starfox, yet few to no one would ever think of cutting him now that he's here. And when it comes to Pokemon they useually have a sample set of over a hundred new potential fighters and still pick only a single one based on moveset and popularity. Unless all the Octopatch protagonists are particularly flat with bad designs, I'm sure there's some of them that are more popular than others among the fans. Likewise, unless they all have the same gameplay abilities, I'm sure some of them have more potential for interesting movesets than others.

[Florete]

21 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Likewise, unless they all have the same gameplay abilities

Due to how the class system works, they kind of do (so Johann's idea of including them all with one moveset would technically work). Given how the Fire Emblem characters are treated, though, Sakurai would likely just look at each one's base class.

I think the main difference between this and Falco or any given Pokemon is that those series already had a primary representative (Fox and Pikachu) that would obviously come first. And, well, they're owned by Nintendo.

If I were to actually consider one of them for Smash, though...H'aanit probably has the most potential.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Florete said:

Due to how the class system works, they kind of do (so Johann's idea of including them all with one moveset would technically work). Given how the Fire Emblem characters are treated, though, Sakurai would likely just look at each one's base class.

I think the main difference between this and Falco or any given Pokemon is that those series already had a primary representative (Fox and Pikachu) that would obviously come first. And, well, they're owned by Nintendo.

If I were to actually consider one of them for Smash, though...H'aanit probably has the most potential.

Oh wow, just quickly looking up H'annit on the Octopath Wiki, her battle section says this.

With the ability to use beasts captured from battle to aid her, along with the fact that each beast has different skills, H'aanit is one of the most versatile fighters among the eight. Not only does she come equipped with a bow and axe, but she is able to use lightning magic and use the skills of the captured beasts she has to her advantage in searching for the weaknesses of the enemy.

An axe, lightning and the ability to use captured monsters. That sounds like it could make a really unique fighter.

[Johann]

Rex being a full character after getting a Mii costume seems very unlikely the more I think about it. Like, does it make sense that there are so many people thirsty for Rex that they can't wait a few months for the real thing? Making him a Mii outfit is an incentive for his fans to buy the pass. 

Side note, the Miis are looking way better this time around, both in appearance and performance, and having voices helps make them seem more actualized (especially for characters who have never been voiced).

On 11/5/2018 at 12:23 AM, Florete said:

It's a little late for DLC to promote a game that released months ago.

This reminds me that I really hope the line-up isn't heavily based on promoting games that release around the same time, especially if we're talking 3rd parties. I'm still expecting Leon Kennedy though.

[Armagon]

44 minutes ago, Johann said:

Rex being a full character after getting a Mii costume seems very unlikely the more I think about it. Like, does it make sense that there are so many people thirsty for Rex that they can't wait a few months for the real thing? Making him a Mii outfit is an incentive for his fans to buy the pass.

The real question is, why IS the Rex costume a bonus for the Fighter Pass? The base game already has XC2 representation in the form of Spirits, Songs and a Nia costume for the Mii Brawler. So like, why isn't the Rex costume in the base game and why did Sakurai direct (heh) a whole portion of the Direct to specifically talk about the Rex costume?

The Mii outfit isn't really an incentive for Rex fans to buy the pass because most people are buying the DLC regardless of who's in it. That's the power of Smash.

To me, it sounds like Sakurai wants to put Rex in the game, and if the DLC hasn't been decided on yet (or if it's been decided on a few months ago), then Rex still has a chance.

Yes, i know this just sounds like the third stage of grief (bargaining) but let me have hope until the very end.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Armagon

[Johann]

8 minutes ago, Armagon said:

To me, it sounds like Sakurai wants to put Rex in the game, and if the DLC hasn't been decided on yet (or if it's been decided on a few months ago), then Rex still has a chance.

I've heard rumors that the list hasn't necessarily been finalized, or at least not in full. Not that it matters, I suppose, since we won't know for certain until we get an official reveal. I'll admit that practically any character has a chance, no matter how seemingly small, and that a Mii costume is certainly not disqualifying anybody, but I read the messaging of the Direct to be on the "sorry Xenoblade 2 fans, I hope this is good enough". In a similar vein, the casual way they showed ARMS content suggests that content for it is lower priority (though no doubt due to it being an entirely brand new series).

Aside, I think Rex is one of the worst looking characters I've ever seen, and him getting in over Elma, despite his game being more recent, relevant, and better selling, is something that would disappoint me. Frankly, I think Smash could use some more female characters (especially if they're of color), while characters like Rex or Spring Man strike being cliche/generic main character types and do nothing to draw me into their games.

[Florete]

17 minutes ago, Johann said:

Aside, I think Rex is one of the worst looking characters I've ever seen, and him getting in over Elma, despite his game being more recent, relevant, and better selling, is something that would disappoint me. Frankly, I think Smash could use some more female characters (especially if they're of color), while characters like Rex or Spring Man strike being cliche/generic main character types and do nothing to draw me into their games.

Couldn't agree more.

Rex's design flung me straight from "on the fence" to "wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole" with Xenoblade 2. If we got Rex, another plain white boy, over Elma, a woman of color, in Smash, I'd be quite disappointed.

[Slumber]

The designs for Xenoblade 2, in general, are pretty... questionable. I don't think I'd be happy with any XC2 characters in Smash purely based on that.

[Jingle Jangle]

10 minutes ago, Florete said:

Couldn't agree more.

Rex's design flung me straight from "on the fence" to "wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole" with Xenoblade 2. If we got Rex, another plain white boy, over Elma, a woman of color, in Smash, I'd be quite disappointed.

I didn't realized ethnicity counted in a game where Pokemon, animals, and inadamant objects are playable.