New Heroes Appear: Adrift (November 9 ~)

[Zangetsu]

47 minutes ago, Water Mage said:

Honestly I actually really like this banner.

I’m know gonna get ridiculed here for this, but I actually really like alts, especially whatifs alts like this one. It gives a new perspective of the character and I just find that really, really cool. And I honestly don’t see why people ever hate alts in the first place. It doesn’t rob an original character’s place in the game. I can’t believe I’m saying this, but this fandom is starting to feel like hivemind.

I love the creepy feel of this banner, and you can tell there’s something off with those characters.

 

Unless they came across opinionated. I don't think I've seen anyone ever gave beef about someone liking something.

 

4 minutes ago, Alkaid said:

I can't remember what the site was called, but there was one that tracks in-app sales for NA that people were using to gauge banner performance. Don't know if there's anything for JP. I think it's something you had to be a member to view, and people were using the charts taken from it to see roughly how much FEH was making overall during different banner periods. Off the top of my head I remember reading the Lene banner did quite well, while the Thracia banner seemed to be the lowest performing of the year.

Well that's depressing to know. Thanks for the answer

 

10 minutes ago, Lemmy said:

Does anyone know if the music playing in the video was from Fates or new to Heroes, it seems really dissonant when everyone is talking about dreaming.

Most of Fate OST revolves around "Lost In Thoughts" but this sounds like it's new to FEH. I can't be certain for sure.

 

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

There's really no way to know for sure until we get our fifth Xander.

 

14 minutes ago, Florete said:

You joke, but I'm serious. I guarantee you male characters would never get the same kind of vitriol.

Maybe I'm doing my math wrong but the Japanese banner videos shows the women having their 3rd alts having more dislikes than Marth & Hector.

Honestly, the double standard treatment is pretty much the reason why I don't consider myself a Fire Emblem fan anymore

 

 

[Stroud]

I recovered a bit, I want to pull for Camilla and Mikoto and I only have around 180 orbs for this. Will be a hellride of luck again… 

The sad thing for me is that, yeah. there are a lot  people who hate every new Fate banner. And I am still waiting for Rinkah here… A banner from a game you like means less if there are still not the characters you like in there. There will be much salt if the FE6 banner does not have the right characters for some. If they do something like roy alt it will be bad anyway, hopefully they don't do this.

Still, I will get myself baited, I wished for Mikoto for a long time and here she is. Still, it would be smarter to wait for a better banner. I don't like 4 unit banner that much. 

[Punished Dayni]

I'm going to say something that might be a problem: What gets me about Camilla is that she's gotten a lot of favouritism for being picked outside of Brave or Legendary (which Lyn and Lucina both have), considering at this point she now has a regular alt on top of the most seasonals (to be fair, she is tied with Xander) for any unit. 

Like, I know I was annoyed with Lyn getting it so soon after her previous alt but even then it was a legendary unit, which while I wish it was treated differently isn't maddening at this point. I wasn't even mad at Lucina even as I would have preferred Alm finally getting an alt. Though as another fault on my end Fates isn't exactly a game whose cast I like much either, Camilla included. Even now I have calmed down on my anger at the banner and am mostly laughing at it now and nodding at the theme for it.

As for the guys, Xander might not have annoyed me, but I think that was because I didn't show much of any interest in the first two alts to begin with (The first is still one of the worst units in Feh) so this alt was the only one I actually wanted to pull (though saying this also confirms he's gotten 3 seasonals, much as the 3rd and 4th were a year apart. Frankly he deserves being called out, it would be more than fair.). Chrom annoyed me because I couldn't get Chrissa without risking him for that second seasonal and the second regular alt didn't annoy me as a regular unit and I would say he got sufficient distance but then again he got that alt only one month later than Lyn waited for her legendary alt. So that terrible conclusion I didn't want to admit to might be right after all.

[DefyingFates]

Camilla? Really?! She doesn't even fit the theme, she's just here to pander to the lowest common denominator!!

I ranted about this enough on Reddit so I'll keep calm for now but if she still wins CYL after this I'm going to be furious.

The Corrins do fit the theme so I'm fine with them being alts, and the Azura-cosplay aesthetic is neat. And while this is her 3rd alt (boo), we get a free refresher in the next Tempest Trial (yay!)

[Diovani Bressan]

I believe Mikoto will be demoted, which makes me happy! Flash+ is a great staff, Martyr+ is a great assist and allows the unit to heal itself without the need of Live to Serve, Miracle is ok, Brazen Atk/Res is great and it will probably be the 4* skill, and Infantry Rush is also a great skill. Basically Mikoto is a Seasonal Unit in the normal pool, since she has skills from Bride Lyn, Summer Noire and Summer Linde. I want her so much, and if she has good stats she will be the infantry unit I will +10.

About the others units... I loved the art, but really? Corrin has the same amount of alts that Robin has now, and this is the 3rd Camilla of this year! 5 Camillas!!! Also, we are getting a TT+, with Azura as a reward, so... 4 Azuras. I will not complain about Azura, since she will probably be a free dancer.

Anyway, their skill sets are good. Both Corrins are basically made for Dragon Emblem, Male Corrin's Null Follow-Up skill is great (and makes me believe that Hardy Bearing would be a B-Skill), and Camilla's Tome is very unique. I liked how Camilas's Tome is the anti-Male Corrin weapon. Male Corrin wants to give his love to a support unit, using his refined Yato, but Camilla says NOPE!

Now... this probably means the next version update will probably be Version 2.11, HOWEVER I believe we will get something about Version 3.0 and Book III in the upcoming FEH Channel.

[mcsilas]

@Lemmy @Zangetsu

The music is called Desire Below, and is from the Hidden Truths DLC in Fates, which explains Odin/Laslow/Selena's appearance in the Fates world. The trailer is the in-battle theme but this video below shows a mix of what it also sounds like as a map theme. (Map = Calm, In-battle = Fire).

As for the dissonance, in general, most Valla-related battle/boss themes are like that. Rev-music is the most surreal/experimental compared to the Celtic-inspired Nohr and Japanese Hoshido feel.

...so the banner itself. I actually tried to just stay away because I can feel the salt.

At least I'll just share positives. Art looks nice. Mikoto being playable which is really unexpected. Finally a dragon male Corrin. Paralogue seems a lot more plot-focused than usual and if done right, could actually give a reason for this weird dream-like Valla theme. Also I guess this is my favourite Camilla outfit- it's really classy.

Also Candlelight in the general pool in the form of Flash is nice.

Funny how not long after we get a free red mage flier, this Camilla comes out. Well I guess at least we have a proper summonable red mage flier to go with Nino/Morgan?

Edited November 7, 2018 by mcsilas

[Etrurian emperor]

This is just pathetic. Absolutely pathetic. Every single thing they could have gotten wrong in a banner they got wrong.

Its yet another Fates banner despite Fates already having enough reps that they don't require another banner for at least a year.

Its almost all alts and everyone who gets an alt has already received one or several alts before. If they insist on doing alts then at least do Oboro who's popular but hasn't yet gotten alt instead of Camilla and Azura who can already field whole teams of just them and their alts.

The lone new character is someone nobody likes. Mikoto dies mere seconds into the story of Fates and is so saintly that she undermines the story in a way similar to Garon. There's still Forrest or Charlotte who everyone seems to love and who still haven't been added yet.

And lastly its yet another banner where the male are obviously snubbed in favor of some boobs. I used to say that they should try to distance themselves from that precedent rather than continue it but that ship has sailed. Only one new male addition and three waifu's aren't a precedent anymore but its the new normal. Only one male character is how things will likely go from here on out. This can get nasty in new banners because how popular Azelle, Xane, Shanan, and Tibarn are won't matter when the line up is already determined to be three females which means the chances of every male out there has drastically decreased.

Edited November 7, 2018 by Etrurian emperor

[NSSKG151]

2 hours ago, Lemmy said:

Does anyone know if the music playing in the video was from Fates or new to Heroes, it seems really dissonant when everyone is talking about dreaming.

The track is called Desires Below and plays during the Revelation route (I don't believe it is played at all during Birthright or Conquest) on missions where you fight Vallite troops and considering the units on this banner are implied to be possessed by Anakos I think the music fits.

Edit: Ninja'd, also yeah it did play in Hidden Truth DLC now that I remember though I could have sworn it plays at least once in Revelation (I have only played that route twice and it has been several months since I last played Fates).

2 hours ago, mampfoid said:

That will be the biggest reveal of the feh channel: Seasonal legendary heroes. 

I honestly wouldn't know how people would react if such a thing came true.

Edited November 7, 2018 by NSSKG151

[Diovani Bressan]

Now we learned that Camilla doesn't know how to use her legs to walk, since he only have been seen in a flying mount.

[Water Mage]

1 hour ago, eclipse said:

There's something off about male Corrin in that dress, 'cause he's prettier than me.

Those that have the most reason to complain will do so.  The rest of us. . .probably won't.  But I find that complaining about this game is rather pointless.  If it truly gets on my nerves, I'll play something else.

I know that people that have reason to complain, but the complaints are so similar, it feels like a hivemind.

 

1 hour ago, Florete said:

You joke, but I'm serious. I guarantee you male characters would never get the same kind of vitriol.

 

59 minutes ago, eclipse said:

I totally remember how hated Hector was when he came out as a legendary.  People complained about having way too many Hector alts.

Oh, wait, that was mostly around his axe.  Though I think a count of the likes/dislikes around his legendary intro video would be a good indicator IMO.

IMO it's a double standard, and one that needs to be called out.

I think the reason for that is because people tend to associate fanservice with female characters. So when there’s male fanservice, the “It’s fanservice so it sucks” alarm bell doesn’t ring on their heads. 

[Mackc2]

They have roughly twelve dedicated banners to seasonals a year, so sorry about being a bit salty that a seasonal banner crept it's way into a standard banner slot 

[XRay]

Finally caught up on reading everything.

4 hours ago, Tybrosion said:

I seriously can't tell if this banner is the product of a hidden self-sabotage fetish that IS should really get checked out or a white flag from IS, who are readily aware that they're probably going to lose a sizable amount of player traffic and just general interest in the game once Smash Ultimate arrives and aren't even going to try and fight it.

2 hours ago, Icelerate said:

Furthermore, considering that Fates is already very over represented in both alts and first versions, who at "Intelligent" Systems came up with this banner? 

I am not really sure if it would be classified as self sabotage yet, as we do not have the hard detailed numbers that Nintendo would not release. While a lot of people are voicing their displeasure at alts and stuff, they could still be a minority and the majority actually likes it or simply does not care. For me, I am more interested in a unit's skills and stat distribution, so I do not really care who they put on a banner since I just see it as a cosmetic skin.

However, from my perspective, the direction the game has been going for the past year feels quite a bit different from the first year. It feels like upper management may been a bit cocky and meddled with the marketing and/or game development department. The load of alts, Duel skills, rushed Relay Defense, recycled modes (Rival Domains > Grand Conquest; Tempest Trials > Forging Bonds; Story Maps+Chain Challenges > Blessed Gardens), etc. seems really cash grabby and extremely stingy/cost cutting, so it does not seem it would be something the marketing or development team would do on their own. Maybe they just realized the game's revenue and player count will peak soon and start falling off, so they had an early announcement about Radiant Dawn and Binding Blade Foci. This is just my speculation though, so take it with a grain of salt.

3 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

It's an absolutely brutal support weapon for a team of fast, but squishy, units in the player's hands, though, speaking from my own experience fielding Legendary Lucina and Legendary Lyn in the armor-infested high Arena.

I personally prefer Firesweep Bow in that scenario for role compression. With Poison Strike-Poison Strike, babysitting Firesweep archers got enough nuking power to finish weakened enemies off quickly if the bonus unit still fails to kill them. For Flash healer, while they can completely shutdown counter attacks, they are not exactly great at killing things quickly without Poison Strike, and Savage Blow feels a bit risky for Arena.

It probably does not matter once the player is past pony meta score range, as infantry, fliers, and especially armors are slow enough to abuse Dance/Sing-Reposition repeatedly.

2 hours ago, Vince777 said:

They should not advertise it as a new heroes banner if it's to be everything like a seasonal one. I'm hurting with disappointment.

This is a technical wording rather than common wording. In this case, New Heroes has a different meaning compared to new heroes. "New" with a capital N refers to new units that will stay as part of the permanent summoning pool, in contrast to Special which refers to units that are limited by time; New basically does not mean that the character is new. "Heroes" with a capital H refers to any unit that does not have a generic portrait (I am not completely sure on this one, but I have not heard anyone in-game referring generic enemies as Heroes); likewise, Hero does not mean character that is good or heroic.

2 hours ago, silveraura25 said:

So she's technically a alt

This will depend on your definition of alt.

For me, I am having trouble deciding whether PA!Shigure or WOF!Shigure is the alt. PA!Shigure looks like an alt, but it is placed first. WOF!Shigure looks like the normal version, but it is placed second. Normally, for everyone else with alts, the regular version is always placed first and alts are placed second, so if we are basing our definition of alt on Hero ordering, then PA!Shigure is the original and WOF!Shigure is the alt.

I personally just settle with acknowledging PA!Shigure as the original and WOF!Shigure as the alt, but treat them oppositely and I normally refer to WOF!Shigure as just Shigure.

18 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Oh, wait, that was mostly around his axe. 

I think I am one of the very few who is actually disappointed when AOTB!Hector came out since he is not wielding Armads. I want to field Hector emblem for fun, and it would be really nice if all of them are axe armor units wielding Armads. Oh well, hopefully Hector #5 would wield Armads again.

13 minutes ago, mampfoid said:

No colorless Camilla?

I hope Brave Camilla will win next year and be a flying archer. If not, then hopefully as a Special Hero.

16 minutes ago, mampfoid said:

Seasonal legendary heroes

Legendary Heroes already feel like Special Heroes. They only appear for a limited time, but they do appear a lot more often though.

17 minutes ago, Zangetsu said:

Honestly, the double standard treatment is pretty much the reason why I don't consider myself a Fire Emblem fan anymore

That feels like admitting defeat and letting the obnoxious people win. I am a feminist, a Star Wars fan, and a Fire Emblem fan. Just because some of people who label themselves similarly as you should not make you feel ashamed of being who you are.

12 minutes ago, Water Mage said:

I think the reason for that is because people tend to associate fanservice with female characters. So when there’s male fanservice, the “It’s fanservice so it sucks” alarm bell doesn’t ring on their heads. 

But Lucina does not have much fan service though. Even SF!Lucina is pretty tame.

[Thunderstar]

"A happy dream is better than a painful reality." It sums up what I think about this banner quite well. It sure doesn't help we got a Conquest banner recently. I guess this is also why they announced that FE6 and FE10 were getting banners for the next year. 

This banner is quite a missed opportunity for Lilith, Anankos, Arete and Sumeragi but I am not surprised. Mikoto is surprising though.

Oh well I can save my orbs at least and the art looks fine for the most part.

Edited November 7, 2018 by Thunderstar

[mcsilas]

41 minutes ago, NSSKG151 said:

The track is called Desires Below and plays during the Revelation route (I don't believe it is played at all during Birthright or Conquest) on missions where you fight Vallite troops and considering the units on this banner are implied to be possessed by Anakos I think the music fits.

Edit: Ninja'd, also yeah it did play in Hidden Truth DLC now that I remember though I could have sworn it plays at least once in Revelation (I have only played that route twice and it has been several months since I last played Fates).

The atonic/chaotic feel sounds similar to another track in Rev which is the theme for the second last map, which is what you may be thinking of.

 The Fates DLCs in general have some map-exclusive music, like the Shigure version of Lost in thoughts/Temporal Dreams for Heirs of Fate. So I don't think they appear in the base game.

Edited November 7, 2018 by mcsilas

[Diovani Bressan]

If the Tempest Trial Azura is a blue lance unit with a Sapphire Lance, I will be so pissed!

Edited November 7, 2018 by Diovani Bressan

[Drakhis]

1 hour ago, Zangetsu said:

Unless they came across opinionated. I don't think I've seen anyone ever gave beef about someone liking something.

 

Well that's depressing to know. Thanks for the answer

 

Most of Fate OST revolves around "Lost In Thoughts" but this sounds like it's new to FEH. I can't be certain for sure.

 

 

Maybe I'm doing my math wrong but the Japanese banner videos shows the women having their 3rd alts having more dislikes than Marth & Hector.

Honestly, the double standard treatment is pretty much the reason why I don't consider myself a Fire Emblem fan anymore

 

 

I'm sorry I'm french, and I searched the meaning of " the double standard treatment " but I can't find it (or understand it, I don't know) can you explain me this, please ?

[Alkaid]

12 minutes ago, XRay said:

However, from my perspective, the direction the game has been going for the past year feels quite a bit different from the first year. It feels like upper management may been a bit cocky and meddled with the marketing and/or game development department. The load of alts, Duel skills, rushed Relay Defense, recycled modes (Rival Domains > Grand Conquest; Tempest Trials > Forging Bonds; Story Maps+Chain Challenges > Blessed Gardens), etc. seems really cash grabby and extremely stingy/cost cutting, so it does not seem it would be something the marketing or development team would do on their own. Maybe they just realized the game's revenue and player count will peak soon and start falling off, so they had an early announcement about Radiant Dawn and Binding Blade Foci. This is just my speculation though, so take it with a grain of salt.

Wasn't there something released saying they were disappointed with their mobile market performance(even though FEH is doing good, but I guess not raking in as much cash as they wanted)? I'd agree they might be trying to cash grab while they think the game's still hot. I find the arena changes, duel skills and increasing rate of powercreep far more off-putting than their banner character selections.

[DefyingFates]

13 minutes ago, Drakhis said:

I'm sorry I'm french, and I searched the meaning of " the double standard treatment " but I can't find it (or understand it, I don't know) can you explain me this, please ?

It's when you consider one subset of people doing X to be wrong, yet another subset of people doing the same thing to be okay. In this case, the subsets are genders and X is "fanservice".

@Diovani Bressan: my bet is Azura with a lance called Verdande (with the same effect as Urdr and Skuld).

P.S. I wonder if Azura will wear her promoted outfit from Warriors? It'd be different (unless they pull a L!Ryoma) but still fit the aesthetic of the other Heroes here.

Edited November 7, 2018 by DefyingFates

[XRay]

1 minute ago, Alkaid said:

Wasn't there something released saying they were disappointed with their mobile market performance(even though FEH is doing good, but I guess not raking in as much cash as they wanted)? I'd agree they might be trying to cash grab while they think the game's still hot. I find the arena changes, duel skills and increasing rate of powercreep far more off-putting than their banner character selections.

Yeah, in the same article, they were saying that they were making a profit on Heroes, but they did not give any hard numbers. It just sounds very fishy overall. Since they did claim Heroes is making a profit, we know that they are not losing money on it, but since there was not a lot of bragging involved, I assume it is bad enough to have investors worried if they found out the actual numbers on profits.

They are basically deflecting "What score did you get on your exam?" with "It was easy, and I passed." instead of "I did minimal studying, and I got C-."

[Drakhis]

2 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

It's when you consider one subset of people doing X to be wrong, yet another subset of people doing the same thing to be okay. In this case, the subsets are genders and X is "fanservice".

Okay thanks !

[redlight]

7 minutes ago, Drakhis said:

I'm sorry I'm french, and I searched the meaning of " the double standard treatment " but I can't find it (or understand it, I don't know) can you explain me this, please ?

Basically, you apply a rule/opinion/treatment on one group, but not the other, despite there being similar circumstances. Something like people would rush in to protect a woman from being abused by a man, but not the other way around

1 minute ago, XRay said:

Yeah, in the same article, they were saying that they were making a profit on Heroes, but they did not give any hard numbers. It just sounds very fishy overall. Since they did claim Heroes is making a profit, we know that they are not losing money on it, but since there was not a lot of bragging involved, I assume it is bad enough to have investors worried if they found out the actual numbers on profits.

They are basically deflecting "What score did you get on your exam?" with "It was easy, and I passed." instead of "I did minimal studying, and I got C-."

Ice mentioned how they were presenting a scenario, which IS wanted people to believe. He talked about that IS is probably dunking with Heroes revenue. Correct me if I'm wrong

[Diovani Bressan]

@DefyingFates I don't believe IS would give us a free unit with a weapon as good as Urdr and Skuld, unless we gets the Lance with base effect like +3 Atk/Spd when refreshing (only 2 stats), and then some time later OG Azura gets the same weapon, and the refinement adds the Urdr and Skuld effect for both units (OG Azura and TT Azura).

[Zangetsu]

@mcsilas & @NSSKG151

I'm horrible at this kind of thing, thank you for correcting me.

 

35 minutes ago, Water Mage said:

I know that people that have reason to complain, but the complaints are so similar, it feels like a hivemind.

Another reason for me to believe social interaction on the web isn't worth it. So many times I've deceived the vocal minority.

 

5 minutes ago, Diovani Bressan said:

If the Tempest Trial Azura is a blue lance unit with a Sapphire Lance, I will be so pissed!

You should be more worried about whether she's actually a dancer or not. I like her to be a red unit until I realize all the accessible ones are red. So much for Azura Emblem.

 

3 minutes ago, Drakhis said:

I'm sorry I'm french, and I searched the meaning of " the double standard treatment " but I can't find it (or understand it, I don't know) can you explain me this, please ?

I doubt I can explain it better, especially when I have my own definition on it, but in this context "when 1 gender gets treat more favorably or worse while the opposite gets treated vice-versa"

 

20 minutes ago, XRay said:

That feels like admitting defeat and letting the obnoxious people win. I am a feminist, a Star Wars fan, and a Fire Emblem fan. Just because some of people who label themselves similarly as you should not make you feel ashamed of being who you are.

I can't help it, this community has made me more than once feel bad about enjoying certain things in Fire Emblem. And I, in turn, have been lashing out on them, which I shouldn't necessarily do on this site, but quite frankly what really started on this negativity was Lucina's legendary trailer & Lyn's inclusion in FE Warriors.

 

20 minutes ago, XRay said:

But Lucina does not have much fan service though. Even SF!Lucina is pretty tame.

Lucina is hated because she's a waifu & she's dull. People made that vocally clear about their disdain towards her

[Etrurian emperor]

I'm not entirely a fan of the double standard argument when it comes to fanservices. I do believe it definitely plays some part but on the whole I believe fanservice is much more a design factor with female units than male units.

A bridal Raigh would not carry the same unfortunate implications as a bridal Sanaki because shotas have never been the phenomenon that their Loli counterparts have been. If Raigh was put in a bridal banner with a husbando tuxedo  then I'm much quicker to think he was chosen because his brooding image contrasts the wedding theme in a funny way rather than because the devs wanting to appeal to the much smaller shotacon crowd.

We can already see some of this in the bunny banner. Alfonse is your typical prettyboy and I'm sure his female fans liked seeing him as a bunny. But that market is not as high of a priority so I suspect the amusing scenario of the stuffy Alfonse being stuffed in a silly bunny outfit was what gave him his bunny outfit. Kagero and Catria share this contrast as they too are stuffy enough to make the dress-up amusing but there are more lucrative reasons for having two pretty woman dress up like bunnies and I suspect that's the reason they were given their outfits.

Edited November 7, 2018 by Etrurian emperor

[Drakhis]

3 minutes ago, silveraura25 said:

Basically, you apply a rule/opinion/treatment on one group, but not the other, despite there being similar circumstances. Something like people would rush in to protect a woman from being abused by a man, but not the other way around

Ice mentioned how they were presenting a scenario, which IS wanted people to believe. He talked about that IS is probably dunking with Heroes revenue. Correct me if I'm wrong

Thanks you too! Always happy to learn things like that!

 

Does someone know if the update is in 14-18 hours? (Tomorrow for french people)