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California mass Shooting


Jotari
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19 minutes ago, CapnStix said:

Cause you pissed someone off? That's not a good reason to shoot someone.

Of course I'm right, I called Kavanaugh being confirmed weeks in advance, I called Hilary not being elected and I had a vision of 9/11 happening the night before. No one would believe 9/11 would happen, but it did. I tend to be right about many things. Not everything, I thought Jill Stein was gonna be the president by now.

Kinda pitiful, always worrying about being shot. Shame. I wouldn't worry about it. I'm apparently the happiest person my friends know.

I don't worry about being shot because I live in a country with sensible guns laws and public shootings are virtually nonexistant.

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1 minute ago, CapnStix said:

I meant surrounded by. This has been happening as of late, I tried writing begin yet ended with bed. Mayhaps I am tired, mayhaps it's something else

With all due respect, how the hell do you get emotional from surrounded by. At this point, yeah I'd recommend just hitting the hay, it is never a good idea to debate tired.

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11 minutes ago, CapnStix said:

Not really. And I've seen that alcohol kills more than guns. So gg, try again next time, please.

I wasn't aware I was playing a game. Please don't treat this like a game. You seem like you're trying to win and find contradictions in my argument rather than trying to have a conversation with me. I would appreciate it if you treated me like a human being and not a video game you're trying to beat, because based on what I've seen of you... that's what you are doing in this thread.  But if my pleading you goes poorly, I can just ignore you from here on out anyway. Don't feel too much pressure to treat me like a human being.

Regardless, alcohol is used significantly more as a social drug, and overuse of alcohol is seen as a mental illness. You are outlawed from using it below 21 and there are serious consequences for both the user and the person supplying the user. Our society has put the proper regulations to ensure it kills as few people as possible, including suspending those who drink and drive.

Do you sincerely believe that people are willing to put the same kinds of regulations on guns?

11 minutes ago, CapnStix said:

But you have to be a freaking crazy person to end another human life. You can be sane one moment then crazy the next.

You got evidence for this? Cause the Vegas shooter wasn't crazy, and he ended human life.

What are you defining as crazy? A particular disease? A symptom? Because crazy people are everywhere and don't kill, and sane people kill. Is everyone in the military who has participated in combat mentally ill then?

Edited by Lord Raven
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1 minute ago, Jotari said:

I don't worry about being shot because I live in a country with sensible guns laws and public shootings are virtually nonexistant.

Japan, yes? Isn't it almost impossible to get a gun? Like, you have to be a cop, iirc, correct? Shame about the suicide rate.

 

2 minutes ago, DarthR0xas said:

With all due respect, how the hell do you get emotional from surrounded by. At this point, yeah I'd recommend just hitting the hay, it is never a good idea to debate tired.

The inner machinations of my mind are an enigma, even to me. I'm finishing a project up, as we speak, so I should turn in soon. Always been something of a perfectionist.

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Mocking you'd be rude, so I won't. What is crazy? Someone who kills for no reason. Sounds pretty crazy. Modern feminism. Women have equal rights to men. And lot of the feminists are overweight lesbians, or generally unattractive women. Not all, of course. But a good chunk, like Sarkeesian or Big Red.

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35 minutes ago, CapnStix said:

Mocking you'd be rude, so I won't. What is crazy? Someone who kills for no reason. Sounds pretty crazy.

Nope!

fc9028c3f3dd59461e698d1bb417fad3.png

Sure, it can be used in that context, but if you want to somehow solve a problem with "crazy" then you have to first actually define what you mean by crazy.

Are crazy people just normally abrasive people? If so, a vast majority of the East Coast is crazy. They are not.

Are crazy people mentally ill? In that case, the vast majority of human beings would be considered crazy. Interestingly enough, I was hoping you would talk about mental illness in more depth, but I didn't lead you enough and I do apologize.

I believe you are attacking gun control as a concept yes? So are you suggesting we should fix the issue of having crazy (I'm assuming you mean mentally ill -- but honestly, I'll let you talk) people? Or should we prevent them from having access to guns? I'm very confused as to what your standpoint is.

@eclipse I believe we should be more patient and allow @CapnStix clarify his position. Depending on his response, I probably wouldn't argue with you either way. I hope my questions are more leading.

Edited by Lord Raven
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Bad and/or crazy people don't care about the laws. They're still gonna do it. Gun control only punish people who don't break the law. Yje bad people will do it regardless. Wanna be safe? Get a gun instead of making everyone suffer. We're allowed to have guns. The founding fathers didn't care about what kinda guns.

Therefore, gun control is stupid. Plain and simple.

Edited by CapnStix
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I think CapnStix is probably just trolling here but in the event that this is not the case, I'll humor it just once...

"Wanna be safe? Get a gun instead of making everyone suffer" - That talking point has more evidence against it than for it. brb, buying a gun to have around for me to kill off any suspicious looking white person I suspect of looking to incite a race war in the US

"Gun control will not stop gun shootings"- It will greatly reduce the number and that's the point.

"Gun control only punish people who don't break the law" - A Majority of Americans want increased gun control to reduce mass shootings in the country. Gun owners/enthusiasts themselves are all for the idea of making guns initially difficult to get because no one likes the thought of a little shit like Nikolas Cruz being able to acquire an assault rifle and kill innocents for whatever stupid reason/impulse these shooters have. It's not a question of "punishing people who don't break the law", it's a matter of making it more difficult for the extreme to happen as frequently. I talked to a friend who's a gun owner and enthusiast and even he believes that the current laws in Texas need to be changed to make it more difficult to get a gun.

"You have to be crazy to kill someone with a gun" - No, you just have to be a human with a gun. A person who shoots someone in an attempt to stop an assaulter and ends up accidentally shooting someone unintended is by no means crazy.

The shooting brought up in this thread is apparently the 307th shooting in the year. Tuesday November the 13th is day 317 of the year. If you seek to increase this rate of mass shootings, by all means, continue to advocate for more guns.

Edited by Dr. Tarrasque
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What I'm sensing is not that he's trolling (well, he might be, but I didn't want to actually say it outright) but that he's just interested in preaching and not necessarily discussion. Assume the best and see what happens, I say. Good time to practice my patience, tbh. I'm surprised he's only 9 months only than me, though.

48 minutes ago, CapnStix said:

Bad and/or crazy people don't care about the laws. They're still gonna do it.

Your solution to an issue is to ban nothing then, I believe? If so, what is the government for? This is very vacuous logic, because it means that a ban on anything will still lead to that ban being circumvented. This will require a governing body to enforce and possibly even given incentives to the thing that they want to ban. Like a highly competitive gun buyback program, and incrementalist regulations to give people time.

In either case, I asked you to define what crazy meant. You are correct that people who break laws don't necessarily care that they broke it, but do you mean a crazy person breaks the law? Because any time you listen to music you can buy, you're breaking the law. Does that make you crazy then?

Furthermore, what do you plan on doing with crazy? Prevent them from buying firearms or ignore it and let us figure it out? Do you believe in Anarchy?

48 minutes ago, CapnStix said:

Wanna be safe? Get a gun instead of making everyone suffer. We're allowed to have guns.

Or, we could call our congressman and work with people on sensible gun control. Go to town hall meetings. Employ some civics and encourage people to join the debate. There's a solution out there, people are just too far on one side instead of going like "here's some problems, here's some trends we're seeing, this is what we can try to fix it." You're employing plenty of partisanship into your post.

Not everyone is interested in buying guns and not everyone believes we should live in a society that basically exists as a perpetual Mexican standoff.

Do you not see the problem with this mentality, or at least understand this? You're currently saying that we're being emotional, while also preaching that you will suffer if you don't have guns. Why do I care about your emotions then if emotions are meaningless in these debates? I'm just asking you to put more thoughts into your reply and take your time. We're not out to bite your dick off, bro, so just chill, smoke a joint, grab a beer and shoot the shit. Be somewhat formal though, it's SD.

Edited by Lord Raven
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1 hour ago, CapnStix said:

Japan, yes? Isn't it almost impossible to get a gun? Like, you have to be a cop, iirc, correct? Shame about the suicide rate.

So...are you suggesting the suicide rate in Japan would go down if everyone had access to guns?

1 hour ago, eclipse said:

Someone give me a reason why I should keep this topic open.

I think it's good that there's at least some back and forth going back between opinions rather than the place becoming an echo chamber. And I don't think the conversation has become to vitriolic yet, just rather one sided.

Edited by Jotari
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7 hours ago, CapnStix said:

The founding fathers didn't care about what kinda guns.

Did you speak to them yourself? Speaking for dead men isn't very respectful.

And, didn't care about any kind of gun? Well, tell me about the rules already in place for acquiring an automatic weapon or heaven forbid chemical weapons. You think you should be able to have anything?

That said, even if I have no regard for the Second Amendment as a European that thinks the concept of gun nuts both pathetic and insane, there is both a culture and too many guns in circulation to do any such thing that would restrict owning a gun for most people. This is just pragmatic.

Edited by Tryhard
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51 minutes ago, hanhnn said:

That's absolutely atrocious. And it's going to keep happening until the police start getting reprimanded for it. The state being responsible for killing innocent people is completely unacceptable. I'm not saying any police officer that shoots an innocent should get prison time, because sometimes it is an intense situation and mistakes can happen, but any officer that kills an innocent in such a situation have proven that they are not capable of acting correctly under such circumstances and should automatically be suspended from any field duty. People should not have to live in fear of getting murdered by their law enforcement.

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No gun control. I swear, people are anti-gun just to look good. In America, it's the right of every citizen to possess firearms. To stop tyranny and/or crazy/bad people. Less government is good. It's not their job to take care of us. Their job is to keep the country running. The legislative is to make laws, the judicial to enforce those rules with the help of cops, whom I wholeheartedly support, regardless of circumstance, and the executive branch basically just lets the laws become laws.

America is free because of free speech, where you can say racial slurs or promote bad ideas and not be put in jail for that. We have freedom of speech, or 1A, because we have freedom to bear arms, or 2A. Limiting arms destroys any semblance of freedom, and screw that...I sure ain't down for that.

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I say we should arm the teachers, priests, and elderly folks for defense. More guns always helps chaotic situations, especially if you roll back protections on getting automatic weapons and explosives. We should have no restrictions on selling to anyone with a history of aggressive mental illness. We should also arm as many citizens as possible so America can delight in the act of ritual blood sports.

Edited by Tryhard
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30 minutes ago, CapnStix said:

No gun control. I swear, people are anti-gun just to look good. In America, it's the right of every citizen to possess firearms. To stop tyranny and/or crazy/bad people. Less government is good. It's not their job to take care of us. Their job is to keep the country running. The legislative is to make laws, the judicial to enforce those rules with the help of cops, whom I wholeheartedly support, regardless of circumstance, and the executive branch basically just lets the laws become laws.

America is free because of free speech, where you can say racial slurs or promote bad ideas and not be put in jail for that. We have freedom of speech, or 1A, because we have freedom to bear arms, or 2A. Limiting arms destroys any semblance of freedom, and screw that...I sure ain't down for that.

There are limits. You can't reasonably expect that threatening someone verbally is covered under 1A. So too should there be a limit on what 2A covers or how it's interpreted. And if you think the Bill of Rights should be untouchable, then I should remind you that Amendment 13 supersedes 10A because it says no state can enslave people. You defeat your own argument because not only has the Bill of Rights been overridden before, there have been absolutely valid reasons for it to be so. This is such a case, especially since actual gun lovers are finding out that the NRA and other lobbyists are gaslighting them.

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48 minutes ago, CapnStix said:

No gun control. I swear, people are anti-gun just to look good. In America, it's the right of every citizen to possess firearms. To stop tyranny and/or crazy/bad people. Less government is good. It's not their job to take care of us. Their job is to keep the country running. The legislative is to make laws, the judicial to enforce those rules with the help of cops, whom I wholeheartedly support, regardless of circumstance, and the executive branch basically just lets the laws become laws.

America is free because of free speech, where you can say racial slurs or promote bad ideas and not be put in jail for that. We have freedom of speech, or 1A, because we have freedom to bear arms, or 2A. Limiting arms destroys any semblance of freedom, and screw that...I sure ain't down for that.

to illustrate why your posts have not made much sense to this point:

if we removed weaponry from the military would less, more, or the same amount of people die? how efficient would we be at killing? (hint: it's not a surprise that wars, on average, have been much shorter while simultaneously killing orders of magnitude more people with the advent of guns. guns were made to kill, dude.)

your idealistic ravings don't reflect reality--made worse by the fact that your libertarian values are passed as fact with an argument with as strong a foundation as a house of cards (tm).

lots of other countries have free speech lol.

owning black people was a right of every citizen too. that's not an argument for why we ought to own slaves. likewise, that there is a right under the constitution to own firearms does not mean we ought own firearms, or that it is moral to do nothing in the wake of tragedy after tragedy after tragedy after tragedy after tragedy after tragedy after tragedy after tragedy after tragedy after tragedy after tragedy after tragedy after tragedy

 

Edited by Phoenix Wright
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2 minutes ago, Hylian Air Force said:

There are limits. You can't reasonably expect that threatening someone verbally is covered under 1A. So too should there be a limit on what 2A covers or how it's interpreted. And if you think the Bill of Rights should be untouchable, then I should remind you that Amendment 13 supersedes 10A because it says no state can enslave people. You defeat your own argument because not only has the Bill of Rights been overridden before, there have been absolutely valid reasons for it to be so. This is such a case, especially since actual gun lovers are finding out that the NRA and other lobbyists are gaslighting them.

That's your defense? Constitution means naught then. Just let everyone do what they want, because the constitution is just a piece of paper. Guns will never be controlled in America, like or not. So, calling a black person the n-word is a verbal threat now? What else is bad, rating people you've never talked to before based on appearance?

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4 minutes ago, CapnStix said:

Guns will never be controlled in America.

This same argument has been used in vain as an attempt to debunk feminism, civil rights, abortion, gay marriage, and many other things. It has never worked, and it never will. There will come a time where your sentiment is seen as a dangerous anachronism, and hardly anyone will want a weapon at all. Maybe not right now, or even in our lifetime, but under no circumstance should you say never.

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5 minutes ago, Phoenix Wright said:

to illustrate why your posts have not made much sense to this point:

if we removed weaponry from the military would less, more, or the same amount of people die? how efficient would we be at killing? (hint: it's not a surprise that wars, on average, have been much shorter while simultaneously killing orders of magnitude more people with the advent of guns. guns were made to kill, dude.)

your idealistic ravings don't reflect reality--made worse by the fact that your libertarian values are passed as fact with an argument with as strong a foundation as a house of cards (tm).

lots of other countries have free speech lol.

owning black people was a right of every citizen too. that's not an argument for why we ought to own slaves. likewise, that there is a right under the constitution to own firearms does not mean we ought own firearms, or that it is moral to do nothing in the wake of tragedy after tragedy after tragedy after tragedy after tragedy after tragedy after tragedy after tragedy after tragedy after tragedy after tragedy after tragedy after tragedy

 

Name one country where someone wasn't jailed for "hate speech". I'll wait. Why do you wanna ban guns, huh? Because they are kill? So do cars. Your entire argument is based purely in emotion. Freedom doesn't care about feelings, and neither do I, when it comes to basic human rights. Do guns walk and oppress people? Do guns decide to kill people? No. They're just as dangerous as cars. The car isn't a living being. We ban guns, we ban every basic human right, and become a tyranny. And that is unAmerican. You can virtue signal all you want, but that doesn't work on me. I don't automatically believe "survivors of sexual assault" just because they are a "victim". Doing so says "every accused person is guilty unless PROVEN innocent". This is America, the most free country in the world. Hate America? Don't go. Just like with entertainment. Don't like, say, Goblin Slayer? Don't watch it. Yes, there's a rape scene in the first episode. But hating the entire show because of one scene is like hating The Cosby Show just because Bill is in it. That's unjustifiable, and irrational.

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hell yeah brother, cheers from iraq

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Name one country where someone wasn't jailed for "hate speech". I'll wait.

this is a dumbass response lol. i legitimately don't understand any part of this. 

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Why do you wanna ban guns, huh?

because they're d a n g e r o u s.

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Because they are kill?

yes.

 

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So do cars.

did you know that there are laws and regulations concerning vehicles? and not just the vehicles, dude! there are also laws concerning the operation of vehicles. they're called traffic laws!

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and Your entire argument is based purely in emotion.

assuming there exists no arguments that could possibly refute the idea of gun freedoms. ooookay

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Freedom doesn't care about feelings, and neither do I,

go you.

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when it comes to basic human rights.

based off of your post history this is demonstrably false. in fact, guns rights > people's rights.

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Do guns walk and oppress people? Do guns decide to kill people? No.

they're tools used to do so. and they're damn good at it too.

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They're just as dangerous as cars.

first of all, apples to oranges. second of all, source.

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The car isn't a living being.

my best friend is a car, dude. have some respect.

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We ban guns,

not ban, just tighter control.

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we ban every basic human right,

wait what?

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and become a tyranny.

the united states is already tyrannical in a number of ways. i'd like to undo that.

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And that is unAmerican.

any argument that tries to argue something is un-american is un-american.

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You can virtue signal all you want,

ironically, it's you who's doing this.

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but that doesn't work on me.

i'm assuming not much works for you.

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I don't automatically believe "survivors of sexual assault" just because they are a "victim".

wow.

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Doing so says "every accused person is guilty unless PROVEN innocent".

flawless logic.

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This is America, the most free country in the world.

spoken like a true american who's never gone farther than 5 miles from their house.

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Hate America? Don't go.

what in god's name are you fucking talking about at this point?

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Just like with entertainment. Don't like, say, Goblin Slayer? Don't watch it. Yes, there's a rape scene in the first episode. But hating the entire show because of one scene is like hating The Cosby Show just because Bill is in it. That's unjustifiable, and irrational.

ohhhhhhhhh.

you're trolling.

Edited by Phoenix Wright
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2 minutes ago, Hylian Air Force said:

This same argument has been used in vain as an attempt to debunk feminism, civil rights, abortion, gay marriage, and many other things. It has never worked, and it never will. There will come a time where your sentiment is seen as a dangerous anachronism, and hardly anyone will want a weapon at all. Maybe not right now, or even in our lifetime, but under no circumstance should you say never.

But feminism IS cancer. Want equality of the genders? Then call it equality. I'm an egalitarian because feminism is bad now. There's no patriarchy. Men don't succeed just because they happen to be a man. The Wage Gap and Pink Tax have been debunked to hell and back, by women AND men.

Abortion is murder. The baby has different from the mother. The baby can feel pain. So the mother doesn't want it? So put it up for adoption instead of deciding "this doesn't deserve to exist". But what about rape? That's less than 1% of all women in America. It's not 1 in 4. To believe that would be straight up evil. Her body, her choice. Sure, but same to the baby. Hitler killed Jews just because he disliked them, and we condemn that.

Point is, being pro-choice, a feminist, anti-gun...It makes you selfish. In reality, we punish selfish people. Same with criminals. We don't punish tools, we punish the idiot. Come in illegally? You're gonna be deported, if you unlawfully enter a country. You aren't allowed to enter just because you want. There's rules. Follow them, or be punished. The shooter died? He clearly was punished. I don't know if some higher power was involved, but justice triumphed. Death Penalty is moral, you know? Mass shooter kills 20 people. They are no longer human. And, just like barnyard animals, shouldn't and don't have the same rights as the rest of us. Same with rapists. They willingly deserted/gave up their human rights by raping and/or murdering.

It's moral to save a human over an animal. Humans can cure cancer, or end world hunger. A dog, cat, bird, etc. can't.

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