Aether Raids General Thread

[DehNutCase]

9 hours ago, Jingle Bells said:

Yeah, only villains will have such a scummy way to win.

Eh....

That'll only work on immobile teams, is the problem, and the mode already favors running people with a lot of reach so you can snipe the aether refund buildings. (I'm pretty consistently team wiping around turn 4, + both the pot things. So if you box someone in all you've done is make it easier for me to snipe the pots before walking over to kill your guy.)

 

That is, a setup like that does best versus the teams that are already bad in the format, and does worse vs. teams that are already good. (But then again, maybe we can just go ahead and assume anyone competent is going to teamwipe you + grab both aether buildings without losses, so you might as well bank on the guy being bad.)

[daisy jane]

i thought we got more aether. i am at 7 - (which is where i was yesterday) but it only refilled to 50 or something not 100. so.....okay?
i like it it's fun.... but man i suck defensively. i killed someone today so that's good. but i have to wonder if i get really high if me not being able to defend properly is gonna be not so much fun. 

[Shiki]

This mode blows Blessed Garden out of the sky (get it), so yeah it's good.

Unlike Arena there is no BST crap narrowing down your options so you can field different units and face more varied compositions.
Designing your own map is also a nice time sink, but I'm not so sure if the average player has trouble dealing with your map regardless what you do. I tried some compositions like Ward Armor walls or WoM tactics but I have yet to score a win among my 5 defense rounds. Killing a unit and reducing their score is not a problem on average but getting a win seems much harder.
Right now I switched to mounted Healer cancer + Dancer, consisting of Elise (Pain+), Maribelle (Witch Wand+) and Veronica. All of them have Savage Blow and Wrath Dazzle though I'm don't have Wrathful on Elise. Hopefully that will score me a win for a change.

Though mistakes have been made.
1. I definetly bought the wrong buildings. The lack of a Bolt Tower on my defense team means I don't get a bonus on my defense team.
2. Missing the part with breaking down the Aether storage for more Aether cost me a potential fight.
3. Forgetting the turn limit was especially dumb. That was another wasted fight.

Overall the first impression is very positive though right now everyone is on the same low tier with the same limited options. Once we hit higher Aether levels and expanded teams, my opinion may change.

[Johann]

Just had a few "hmmm how will I get to the thingies in the back?" maps, but then I remembered Fjorm is invincible, so it worked out. Kinda funny to just walk by Veronica knowing she can't hurt you. I went ahead and S Supported Fjorm since I figure she's my best Bonus Unit, so might as well make her even stronger for this season.

9 hours ago, Hilda said:

honestly i dont know. atm i think i should priotize defense over offense starting from now. (its allready screwd for this season for me). and focus on aether ressource building so you have higher stamina at the beginningbof a season.(more matches = more lift)

Offense is nice but you can allways manipulate the AI as a player and razzle dazzle can keep up with anything. besides you can allways field a +10 killer team

The AI is so dumb that it needs all the help and bonuses it can get. i would have had now 3 defense wins if it werent for the fact i screwed up with the bonus buildings.  though still happy that 1-2 units on the enemy team die. even though of a stat difference of 8

On the plus side, Defense doesn't seem to matter this season, or perhaps it's tied to Tier. Even with wins, we're not getting any extra Lift, and losses don't matter. Plus, after doing the math, it's impossible for anyone to get to Tier 11 this season, so by the time next one rolls around, we'll be ready. Seems deliberate to me, that they'd want people to see how it plays out and then understand what kinds of things they should be building, cuz yeah a lot of us would be screwed if it mattered this early. Judging by how closely you and I have been losing our Defense fights, I think we'll be ok next season, and our wins should offset the losses.

But yeah anyway upgrading the Amphorae to level 3 seems like the best thing people can do with Dew for now. First purchase next season for me will be the Tactics Room (O) for sure. I recall the Feh Channel mentioned special structures being available next season, so I imagine we're gonna wanna think carefully when that comes. Really hope they give us just a few more stones for that though, I'd hate to miss out if we're short by just a little.

1 hour ago, daisy jane said:

i thought we got more aether. i am at 7 - (which is where i was yesterday) but it only refilled to 50 or something not 100. so.....okay?
i like it it's fun.... but man i suck defensively. i killed someone today so that's good. but i have to wonder if i get really high if me not being able to defend properly is gonna be not so much fun. 

No need to worry about defense just yet, it doesn't affect your score until you get to Tier 11, and you can't drop lower than Tier 11 once you're there.

We get 50 Aether a day, plus the first fight is always free, and then we get a full recharge when the next season starts. Seems like upgrading the Aether Amphorae as much as you can is the best thing since it'll let you start with 200 next season.

[Qilin]

I have only gotten 2 defenses and 1 of them had a corrupted replay. It's making it very difficult to adjust my map.

[Shiki]

Btw. regarding the corrupted replays:

They happen because the game emulates the fight but doesn't account for the agressor's Supports.
That means if during a replay a unit would achieve a different outcome by having said Support bonus the game cannot recreate the battle and the replay gets corrupted.

So if you are a really awful person, let your offense team have maxed out Support so you can't show your opponent how you won.

[Hilda]

3 hours ago, Johann said:

Just had a few "hmmm how will I get to the thingies in the back?" maps, but then I remembered Fjorm is invincible, so it worked out. Kinda funny to just walk by Veronica knowing she can't hurt you. I went ahead and S Supported Fjorm since I figure she's my best Bonus Unit, so might as well make her even stronger for this season.

On the plus side, Defense doesn't seem to matter this season, or perhaps it's tied to Tier. Even with wins, we're not getting any extra Lift, and losses don't matter. Plus, after doing the math, it's impossible for anyone to get to Tier 11 this season, so by the time next one rolls around, we'll be ready. Seems deliberate to me, that they'd want people to see how it plays out and then understand what kinds of things they should be building, cuz yeah a lot of us would be screwed if it mattered this early. Judging by how closely you and I have been losing our Defense fights, I think we'll be ok next season, and our wins should offset the losses.

But yeah anyway upgrading the Amphorae to level 3 seems like the best thing people can do with Dew for now. First purchase next season for me will be the Tactics Room (O) for sure. I recall the Feh Channel mentioned special structures being available next season, so I imagine we're gonna wanna think carefully when that comes. Really hope they give us just a few more stones for that though, I'd hate to miss out if we're short by just a little.

No need to worry about defense just yet, it doesn't affect your score until you get to Tier 11, and you can't drop lower than Tier 11 once you're there.

We get 50 Aether a day, plus the first fight is always free, and then we get a full recharge when the next season starts. Seems like upgrading the Aether Amphorae as much as you can is the best thing since it'll let you start with 200 next season.

It seems like Aether regain from destroying pots is tied to your rank. Destroying 1 Aether pot/fountain on the Defense Team gives you the amount of Aether back equal to your rank. Destroying the 2. pot adds +1 i think, in other words... if you reach rank 20 or so destroying Aether pots becomes essential, because 20 Aether... which makes it harder if you place them correctly with a cancerous setup.

On another note I got my first defense win, i upgraded my defense fortress and with only a 4 stat gap its very hard for the attacking Team to get in without loosing a unit or taking huge damage. Also he did make a mistake and took the bait... destroying the fountain opens up the path for Gunnthra to attack, so he had to reposition the unit with a high res Berkuts Sword Laslow that would have had like +40ish res, good plan, but Odd Res fucked him because he was then close to his own unit and Aversas Tome kicked in giving him -9RES (6 from Odd Res Panic and 3 from Aversas debuff), allowing for Veronica to one shot him. without the RES wave he would have survived with 12 HP left
My map is basicly built around that with traps, forcing the opposing Team to stay close so Aversas Tome affects them. I have to change the layout and tactic on the next season, because Aversa isnt a bonus unit anymore, though with 51 HP she could do still some work against ranged users.

[Ice Dragon]

15 hours ago, Johann said:

How high is their Atk? With the stat boosts on Offense, even super Pain stuff might not be enough to kill a high Res unit, especially if units like Aversa are in play

+10 Halloween Mia [+Spd, -Def] (Pain+ [Dazzling Staff], Recover+, Miracle, Speed +3, Wrathful Staff 3, Drive Spd 2, Guidance 3) has 40/44/44/23/32.
+10 Loki [+Atk, -HP] (Pain+ [Wrathful Staff], Recover+, Earthwater Balm+, C Duel Infantry 3, Dazzling Staff 3, Odd Atk Wave 3, Drive Atk 2) has 48/50/39/20/29.
+10 Elise [+Atk, -Def] (Pain+ [Dazzling Staff], Recover+, Miracle, Attack +3, Wrathful Staff 3, Savage Blow 3, Savage Blow 3) has 34/52/36/20/36.

I apparently got a win just now by time-out where Mia was the last one standing and was unable to damage a Fjorm, and the Fjorm prioritized going after the Aether stores and ran out of time. If Fjorm had prioritized killing Mia, the opponent would have won with one of the two Aether stores destroyed.

I'll probably switch Ninian out for flying Olivia once I get mine trained up and see if that's less likely to do dumb things, even if it wouldn't have helped in this particular case.

 

One tip when running this team composition build is to make sure none of your units are running Restore as their staff. Aversa and Panic huts will cause your team to sit around being dumb instead of attacking. Lightning towers aren't much of an issue if you have the healing tower to recover some of the damage.

[Qilin]

Man, the AI does NOT use Loki correctly. Instead of healing teammates to brace for enemy phase, she is used at the beginning of a turn to dispel debuffs, even if that teammate won't reach anyone.

[Mackc2]

Got my first defence wins (2) today, one was a forfeit because all they had left was a +10 Nino that didn't have enough firepower to kill a half dead kliff (lol)

[Thane]

No one has challenged me in over 24 hours now. I'm not sure why.

[Zelgius]

I'm enjoying this mode, I like how I can go back and review my old units to use in this mode to deal with new types of teams. I just redone my F Robin's build after seeing the potential for cavalry healer teams, so I have her on one of my raid teams, I upgraded Hardy Bearing seal to level 2 for the Vantage builds. I just hope we'll get a good amount of grails through other means, I'd like to get my BK to +10 so I can add more merges for Aversa to use in this mode. On that note, I'm enjoying using Loki and Aversa here. Building a defence map is also fun, I'm thinking of upgrading my defence fort next for when defence loses start to matter.

 

1 hour ago, Thane said:

No one has challenged me in over 24 hours now. I'm not sure why

I had that for first day or so, but now this morning I'm having more defence results. 

Edited November 11, 2018 by Zelgius

[RexBolt]

Is the Aether cost going to keel raising? End of first day they were asking for 17, now it's 27.

[Usana]

1 hour ago, RexBolt said:

Is the Aether cost going to keel raising? End of first day they were asking for 17, now it's 27.

Earlier in the thread Johann did some math.

Seems to work for me so far.

So if you are spending 27 per fight then you have somewhere between 1700-1799 Lift. Assuming I mathed right.

Wait. That doesn't add up. Rank 1 is 1680 last I saw.  So if the above is right, 26 should be the most anyone is paying yet.

Edited November 11, 2018 by Usana

[mampfoid]

Urgh, lost my first fight against a merged Veronica plus dancer. Time to bring some cheese units myself. 

[Landjager]

Are people getting points for defense wins now? Why is the top score 1680 Lift and not a multiple of 100? I thought defense stuff didn't kick in until 4000 Lift.

[Johann]

1 hour ago, Usana said:

Earlier in the thread Johann did some math.

Seems to work for me so far.

So if you are spending 27 per fight then you have somewhere between 1700-1799 Lift. Assuming I mathed right.

Wait. That doesn't add up. Rank 1 is 1680 last I saw.  So if the above is right, 26 should be the most anyone is paying yet.

1680? Hmm that's odd, there must be something I didn't account for, I've calculated that 1600 is the highest Lift anyone can get by today. Maybe Defense wins start to affect score at a tier lower than 11? I'm busy today so I won't likely get a chance to play until later tonight. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a cap to how much they make you spend on a fight though.

[Azuris]

12 hours ago, Alkaid said:

I feel like Aether pot > offense fort > defense fort.

 

9 hours ago, Johann said:

Seems like upgrading the Aether Amphorae as much as you can is the best thing since it'll let you start with 200 next season.

Ok, thank you. I think i'll take the bonus structures for this and next season which will generate exactly the dew needed for two upgrades of the aether amphorae.

Also something to keep in mind, once we reach 4000 lift, which is AR Tier 11 we unlock the 5th unit slot for both offense and defense, which seems to cost 300 stones (each?). So unless you like being outnumbered, keeping some stones on hand for that seems a good idea.

 

1 hour ago, Usana said:

Earlier in the thread Johann did some math.

Wow that seems rough. The highest tier is 11000 lift, so that would be 120 aether per fight. I hope it caps out somewhere.

Also the Aether Fountain has a level und a variable in it's description so seems intended to be upgradeable. That could also be the factor to let us keep up with the cost, wonder if and when that will happen.

 

9 hours ago, Johann said:

I recall the Feh Channel mentioned special structures being available next season

Oh right. I hope the Aether Raid quests won't be for that promotion only, but will be weekly and start monday or next season to provide us with some more stones and grails.

 

 

[Johann]

1 minute ago, Azuris said:

Also something to keep in mind, once we reach 4000 lift, which is AR Tier 11 we unlock the 5th unit slot for both offense and defense, which seems to cost 300 stones (each?). So unless you like being outnumbered, keeping some stones on hand for that seems a good idea.

I'm not certain since we can't do it in game yet, but I think fielding more units may affect the score? Like, if your Def team has more units, you lose more points for a failed Defense. Coulda sworn I read that somewhere

1 minute ago, Azuris said:

Oh right. I hope the Aether Raid quests won't be for that promotion only, but will be weekly and start monday or next season to provide us with some more stones and grails.

I could see them doing a monthly set of AR quests timed with the special structures, that'd be pretty rad

[Azuni]

1 hour ago, Johann said:

1680? Hmm that's odd, there must be something I didn't account for, I've calculated that 1600 is the highest Lift anyone can get by today. Maybe Defense wins start to affect score at a tier lower than 11? I'm busy today so I won't likely get a chance to play until later tonight. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a cap to how much they make you spend on a fight though.

Earlier I saw some other people talking about it, they think if someone lost unit(s) on day 1 or day 2 and ended up at say 1180, their next fight would cost less aether than someone who landed at 1200 to reach the new tier. This means they'd effectively gain one extra run today, which could explain the 1680 score for rank1 today. In comparison, someone who went deathless and broke all aether pots/fountains is stuck at 1600 cap for today, but has ~20 aether leftover to use tomorrow (I am one of these).

[Othin]

My impression is that the cost is going up by 1 every time, with the exception of the daily freebie. Does anyone have experiences to the contrary?

I'm guessing it resets each season, to keep things sane.

[Maaka]

Here's some information I've gathered so far:

Aether cost = 10 + (lift / 100) rounded down

Each aether structure destroyed restores 10% of the Aether cost of that match (or what it would have been if it was the free daily run) and rounds down. So at 1400 lift, breaking both would restore (10 + (1400/100)) * 0.2 = 4.8, rounded down to 4 Aether. 

 

As long as these numbers hold true throughout the rest of the season and nothing caps out:

The max score for absolute perfect runs where you always destroy the aether structures will net you a lift of 3600 with 43 aether remaining (45 aether if the original 2 bonus from the very first run with 100 max Aether carried over to 102).

However, it seems to be possible to get a lift of 3680 if you end up with one run of 80 points instead of 100. This causes the aether cost to be less every run since it rounds down (10 + (1480/100) = 24.8, rounded down to 24). This adds up to quite a bit of extra aether throughout the season and allows you to get an extra run in at the end.

The calculator I quickly coded shows that if you started at 80 points on the very first run, you would end up at 3680 with 29 aether left over, or 31 aether if the original 2 bonus carried over to 102 at the start.

This all hinges on whether I calculated everything correctly and everything stays the same, but it matches what I have gotten so far, what the current perfect run is, and what we are seeing with the 1680 max score for today.

[Hilda]

1 hour ago, Maaka said:

Here's some information I've gathered so far:

Aether cost = 10 + (lift / 100) rounded down

Each aether structure destroyed restores 10% of the Aether cost of that match (or what it would have been if it was the free daily run) and rounds down. So at 1400 lift, breaking both would restore (10 + (1400/100)) * 0.2 = 4.8, rounded down to 4 Aether. 

 

As long as these numbers hold true throughout the rest of the season and nothing caps out:

The max score for absolute perfect runs where you always destroy the aether structures will net you a lift of 3600 with 43 aether remaining (45 aether if the original 2 bonus from the very first run with 100 max Aether carried over to 102).

However, it seems to be possible to get a lift of 3680 if you end up with one run of 80 points instead of 100. This causes the aether cost to be less every run since it rounds down (10 + (1480/100) = 24.8, rounded down to 24). This adds up to quite a bit of extra aether throughout the season and allows you to get an extra run in at the end.

The calculator I quickly coded shows that if you started at 80 points on the very first run, you would end up at 3680 with 29 aether left over, or 31 aether if the original 2 bonus carried over to 102 at the start.

This all hinges on whether I calculated everything correctly and everything stays the same, but it matches what I have gotten so far, what the current perfect run is, and what we are seeing with the 1680 max score for today.

wait a second you are telling me that people are getting rewarded because they screwed up one run? what kind of bullshit logic from IS in their calculations is that lol

[Javi Blizz]

Hey guys, could you help me to improve this map?

Veronica has her default set plus ATK+3 in A and ATK+1 in S, and +1 merge 

Mia has Pain+ Double Savage Blow

Rein has QP Moonbow Lancebreaker

Axura has the standar dancer set

 

Their ranges are: Veronica reaches the tile next to the fortress, Mia reaches the next one and Rein the following one and the last one (only not covered the one under the breakable wall). I'm not sure were to place the tactic room, but I'd like it to be in the middle it's now (or swap its half of the map with the panic building). 

 

Right now I have too many defense loses and not a single win :(

[colossus86]

35 minutes ago, Javi Blizz said:

Hey guys, could you help me to improve this map?

Veronica has her default set plus ATK+3 in A and ATK+1 in S, and +1 merge 

Mia has Pain+ Double Savage Blow

Rein has QP Moonbow Lancebreaker

Axura has the standar dancer set

 

Their ranges are: Veronica reaches the tile next to the fortress, Mia reaches the next one and Rein the following one and the last one (only not covered the one under the breakable wall). I'm not sure were to place the tactic room, but I'd like it to be in the middle it's now (or swap its half of the map with the panic building). 

 

Right now I have too many defense loses and not a single win :(

Way too much magic damage. Azura can be easily delt with by any red unit, and probably alot of green ones, so you jusy bait rein turn 1 and let Veronica come to you. I'd recommend subbing out Mia since she'd likely struggle to get a kill shot on any unit with functional res, and having a unit that can't actually kill anyone makes it easier to "perfect clear" your map.