Aether Raids General Thread

[Stroud]

Just reached T18. I guess I still can reach T19, but that would be the end of the line. And I don't want to waste all my orbs for mythic heroes. It would take Light Deirdre to bait me. But I don't believe that they would do that. 

Edited December 20, 2018 by Stroud

[Maaka]

I need some serious lessons on how to ninja out of getting attacked. I am getting so many defense matches it is insane. Just lost 80 more lift, literally less than 21 hours after my last loss. Now there is no chance of me reaching tier 20. It's strange too because I've rematched half the top players and their defenses are not that difficult to beat, yet somehow they rarely lose lift. They're either getting lucky and being matched up with people who don't care about winning, or they aren't even getting any attackers. In any case, I'm never going to worry about improving my defense team. My defense team just can't handle the whales that can plant a +10 unit in range that will delete or tank any possible builds I am able to make without throwing my wallet at my phone. At least I can relax now and not have to worry about playing perfectly for the next month or so.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

6 hours ago, Johann said:

It's possible that his Japanese name translates to SURTRBOY4EVA, I shouldn't rule that out

I've fought multiple people with two Surtr +10s on their defense teams in Arena, so apparently he's got a few die-hard fans for one reason or another.

13 minutes ago, Maaka said:

I need some serious lessons on how to ninja out of getting attacked. I am getting so many defense matches it is insane. Just lost 80 more lift, literally less than 21 hours after my last loss. Now there is no chance of me reaching tier 20. It's strange too because I've rematched half the top players and their defenses are not that difficult to beat, yet somehow they rarely lose lift. They're either getting lucky and being matched up with people who don't care about winning, or they aren't even getting any attackers. In any case, I'm never going to worry about improving my defense team. My defense team just can't handle the whales that can plant a +10 unit in range that will delete or tank any possible builds I am able to make without throwing my wallet at my phone. At least I can relax now and not have to worry about playing perfectly for the next month or so.

I feel you there. I don't quite have the same problem as far as volume goes, but I keep getting strategically hit by super whales so that the game ensures I take Lift loss every 20 hours (there is the odd exception where I get a non-super whale attacker and then they lose a couple units or even lose entirely on that key match, but it's generally maybe once per week).

[DarkAlf]

47 minutes ago, Maaka said:

I need some serious lessons on how to ninja out of getting attacked. I am getting so many defense matches it is insane. Just lost 80 more lift, literally less than 21 hours after my last loss. Now there is no chance of me reaching tier 20. It's strange too because I've rematched half the top players and their defenses are not that difficult to beat, yet somehow they rarely lose lift. They're either getting lucky and being matched up with people who don't care about winning, or they aren't even getting any attackers. In any case, I'm never going to worry about improving my defense team. My defense team just can't handle the whales that can plant a +10 unit in range that will delete or tank any possible builds I am able to make without throwing my wallet at my phone. At least I can relax now and not have to worry about playing perfectly for the next month or so.

Me three.  I've been hit every day this week.  Significantly retooling my defense has helped mitigate the damage a bit (only -40 today instead of -80), but it might be a bit too late.  I don't think I'm making T19 unless I don't get attacked again and I play perfectly on offense, both tall orders.  I will only care about defense until T21 is attained, whenever that'll be, then I'll throw a themed defense team in.

Like you, I'm going to just relax now and slowly move up.  This has simply been way too intense and stressful for my taste.  At least next week should be a lot easier to move up a tier with light season around the corner.

[Azuni]

1 hour ago, Maaka said:

I need some serious lessons on how to ninja out of getting attacked. I am getting so many defense matches it is insane. Just lost 80 more lift, literally less than 21 hours after my last loss. Now there is no chance of me reaching tier 20.

About the same situation for me; at least next week is ezmode to get to t20, regardless of defense losses.

[Azuris]

Today is the best day in Aether Raids I had in some time. I don't have to play a single match. Yes!

My defense fell apart spectacularly as always and I did get attacked over ten times already, so tier 20 is out of reach, but I made enough lift to not be able to fall out of tier 19 any more. Just have to remember to get the first game bonus sometimes. Too bad the next light season falls on the holidays so I'm not sure I'll find time to play.

 

16 hours ago, Rezzy said:

I'm really feeling that Aether Raids is the worst of both worlds with the way its stamina system works.

A: "I'm really exhausted, and don't feel up to doing Aether Raids right now."  Too bad, you have to do it once or twice or risk losing out on Aether.

B: "You know, I really feel like doing some Aether Raids today!"  Too bad, you only have enough Aether to do it once or twice.

That is so true. I keep reading some people wanting to play more, but I would be so glad if I didn't have to play every single day. Even worse if you are really tired or unwell and still have to force yourself to play and then may destroy your whole season by lack of concentration, which at the moment could mean waiting two weeks for the next try.

 

55 minutes ago, Maaka said:

I need some serious lessons on how to ninja out of getting attacked. I am getting so many defense matches it is insane. Just lost 80 more lift, literally less than 21 hours after my last loss. Now there is no chance of me reaching tier 20. It's strange too because I've rematched half the top players and their defenses are not that difficult to beat, yet somehow they rarely lose lift. They're either getting lucky and being matched up with people who don't care about winning, or they aren't even getting any attackers. In any case, I'm never going to worry about improving my defense team. My defense team just can't handle the whales that can plant a +10 unit in range that will delete or tank any possible builds I am able to make without throwing my wallet at my phone. At least I can relax now and not have to worry about playing perfectly for the next month or so.

Aw, I'm so sorry to hear that, you would have deserved it. Can't help you with being a ninja though, as apparently I'm free lift and everyone heard the tale. At least I could cherry-pick rematches.

 

9 minutes ago, DarkAlf said:

Me three.  I've been hit every day this week.  Significantly retooling my defense has helped mitigate the damage a bit (only -40 today instead of -80), but it might be a bit too late.  I don't think I'm making T19 unless I don't get attacked again and I play perfectly on offense, both tall orders.  I will only care about defense until T21 is attained, whenever that'll be, then I'll throw a themed defense team in.

Like you, I'm going to just relax now and slowly move up.  This has simply been way too intense and stressful for my taste.  At least next week should be a lot easier to move up a tier with light season around the corner.

That's rough. But good job getting your defense to do things, I am way past that point. In light season my offense can score enough for tier 20 and then I'll have to see, maybe I have to wait for defensive blessings or a real good bonus unit, Eir as a bonus is nice but may be gone again when it comes to this.

But as long as it's not impossible, you can still do it. I believe in you.

[Othin]

12 hours ago, Alkaid said:

It feels entirely the same to me aside from I'm now gated out of moving up up in tiers and rank soon thanks to not getting more Eirs to score with.

Even with just one Eir, once enough of the weekly blessings become available, you can get 140 lift fights. Getting to Tier 21 with that seems rough, but Tier 20 should be plenty manageable.

[Astellius]

10 hours ago, Johann said:

How so? All I'm saying is that, while Mythic blessings are dumb, the math behind rankings and tiers makes it so whales/lucky summoners can only get so far ahead with them before they hit scoring walls of some kind, enabling other plays to catch up in rank. Quitting the mode because you're not ranking as high as you once were is only going to affect the number of grails you're getting.

But the mythic blessings only benefit the whales, and, while there is a cap on how much anyone can benefit from the mythic blessings, the introduction of the blessings did nothing but only further widen the gap. I don't particularly take solace in the fact that there's a cap because this whole situation created a problem where there was none before. It puts whoever doesn't acquire multiple blessings via summoning at an inherent disadvantage, and this problem will be replicated again for when new mythic heroes are released. One will need to pull multiple copies of those in order to remain competitive when they come out. This will be ameliorated over time, as they start to make blessings available through other means, but, until then, this is all to the detriment of F2P players.

As for me just potentially quitting the mode, it's not simply because of rank, it's because the problems with the mode hinder my enjoyment of it. I'd like to see them address the problems.

[Ice Dragon]

29 minutes ago, Astellius said:

But the mythic blessings only benefit the whales,

As @Othin mentioned above, after 2 more weeks, assuming we continue to get Light blessings as the fifth daily reward, a free-to-player can get a base victory score of 140 on Light season.

If you manage to get even one spare copy of Eir on this month-end's Legendary Hero banner (assuming you didn't get one from the Hero Fest banner), you can get a base victory score of 160 for next season after getting the free Light blessing from tomorrow's daily reward.

The blessings give whales an advantage, but they certainly benefit other players.

[DehNutCase]

53 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

As @Othin mentioned above, after 2 more weeks, assuming we continue to get Light blessings as the fifth daily reward, a free-to-player can get a base victory score of 140 on Light season.

If you manage to get even one spare copy of Eir on this month-end's Legendary Hero banner (assuming you didn't get one from the Hero Fest banner), you can get a base victory score of 160 for next season after getting the free Light blessing from tomorrow's daily reward.

The blessings give whales an advantage, but they certainly benefit other players.

I'm not sure 140 lift/fight is enough for anyone except those that are already top 1k or so to move up into T20. Hell, I'm not sure I'd be able to handle getting into T20 with 140 lift/fight, considering 1 Eir isn't enough to really leverage her buffing ability, and she doesn't do offensive support well.

It's a good catchup mechanic for people who started late but are good, but I don't think it'll help the people who started at the start time but fell behind.

 

That said, the fact that you can get max rewards, assuming perfect play, by just pulling 2 Eir is a lot better than Arena in terms of orbs spent vs. rewards. It's just that the skill requirement for max rewards with 3 Eir is kind of hilarious (I'd guess less than 500 or so of all players can make it to T21 consistently with just 3 Eir and nothing else---but maybe 10k or so would slowly trickle up from just getting lucky seasons), considering you won't have any leeway at all to make mistakes without defensive Mythics or Eir merges.

Edited December 20, 2018 by DehNutCase

[Ice Dragon]

8 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

I'm not sure 140 lift/fight is enough for anyone except those that are already top 1k or so to move up into T20. Hell, I'm not sure I'd be able to handle getting into T20 with 140 lift/fight, considering 1 Eir isn't enough to really leverage her buffing ability, and she doesn't do offensive support well.

I don't see why plateauing at Tier 19 is such a problem.

Reaching Tier 21 in Aether Raids should be approximately as prestigious as maintaining Tier 21 in Arena due to the fact that it's difficult to drop a tier in Aether Raids, meaning Tier 19 in Aether Raids should, in effect, be approximately equivalent to Tier 19.5 in the Arena.

[Rezzy]

4 hours ago, Azuris said:

Today is the best day in Aether Raids I had in some time. I don't have to play a single match. Yes!

My defense fell apart spectacularly as always and I did get attacked over ten times already, so tier 20 is out of reach, but I made enough lift to not be able to fall out of tier 19 any more. Just have to remember to get the first game bonus sometimes. Too bad the next light season falls on the holidays so I'm not sure I'll find time to play.

 

That is so true. I keep reading some people wanting to play more, but I would be so glad if I didn't have to play every single day. Even worse if you are really tired or unwell and still have to force yourself to play and then may destroy your whole season by lack of concentration, which at the moment could mean waiting two weeks for the next try.

 

Aw, I'm so sorry to hear that, you would have deserved it. Can't help you with being a ninja though, as apparently I'm free lift and everyone heard the tale. At least I could cherry-pick rematches.

 

That's rough. But good job getting your defense to do things, I am way past that point. In light season my offense can score enough for tier 20 and then I'll have to see, maybe I have to wait for defensive blessings or a real good bonus unit, Eir as a bonus is nice but may be gone again when it comes to this.

But as long as it's not impossible, you can still do it. I believe in you.

I have lost too many times from trying to play when exhausted after a 12+ hour shift.

[DarkAlf]

4 hours ago, Azuris said:

That's rough. But good job getting your defense to do things, I am way past that point. In light season my offense can score enough for tier 20 and then I'll have to see, maybe I have to wait for defensive blessings or a real good bonus unit, Eir as a bonus is nice but may be gone again when it comes to this.

But as long as it's not impossible, you can still do it. I believe in you.

Thanks for the encouragement!  Sorry about those defensive losses, though.  Unfortunately my first offensive loss (due to time-out) in nearly 3 weeks occurred today with the Escape Ladder already used.  Now it is mathematically impossible for me to reach T19 this week.  Top 3000 is still in play, though, so there's definitely something to shoot for, but even if I don't get it, it's really not a big deal.  At least next week should be easier to reach T19, even with a bunch of defensive losses.  That's provided I don't screw up on offense.

[Ice Dragon]

I'm really confused as to how the game figures out who to match players against and when.

My defense map was challenged 4 times on the first day of this season, which makes sense because players have the most Aether to spend on the first day, but was challenged zero times on the second, 5 times on the third, and zero times today.

I'm really confused, but I don't mind the free points from not being challenged.

[Hilda]

30 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

I'm really confused as to how the game figures out who to match players against and when.

My defense map was challenged 4 times on the first day of this season, which makes sense because players have the most Aether to spend on the first day, but was challenged zero times on the second, 5 times on the third, and zero times today.

I'm really confused, but I don't mind the free points from not being challenged.

 I am getting challenged everyday once at least or twice. so far only lost 1 defense battle, but thats  due to the fact that my defense fortress is upgraded and i run a rather odd defense Team with Hrid Gunnthra Legendary Lucina, Clair and Azama both with wind blessings benefiting from +4 DEF RES +3 SPD and +9 HP. Its kinda hard for people with none upgraded offense fortress to kill a 50 RES DEF+ Azama that runs witchy wand and resets their special constantly and a Clair with Steady Stance 4, Flier Formation, Guidance and Iotes Shield (needless to say the Team also runs Tactic buffs on top of everything). Needless to say all the -Attack debuffs the enemy suffers from Azamas Hrid and Gunnthras B-Slot.

Seen desperate attempts of a Reinhardt with lance breaker trying to kill my Clair with 2 dancers...

The defense loss i suffered was obviously against a Team running Surtr lol

[DehNutCase]

2 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

I don't see why plateauing at Tier 19 is such a problem.

Reaching Tier 21 in Aether Raids should be approximately as prestigious as maintaining Tier 21 in Arena due to the fact that it's difficult to drop a tier in Aether Raids, meaning Tier 19 in Aether Raids should, in effect, be approximately equivalent to Tier 19.5 in the Arena.

Is maintaining T21 in Arena actually prestigious? I've never thought of the people at T21 as good because they're in T21---I respect you, of course, but that's because I can tell you're actually good at the game from just talking to you. Like, if you're fighting teams that are either homogenized like crazy (all armors/dragons), or deliberately hampering themselves (duel skills), you're not really fighting the best the game has to offer, meaning you can get away with a lot more than you should.

That is, I've always thought of arena as a mode that measured how much you're willing to invest in a game mode rather than how good you are at the game.

 

Regarding plateauing at T19 for AR, I suppose the biggest problem is that, while the hilariously skilled can get to T21 on a shoe-string budget, it takes enormous investment for the merely mediocre to reach that same level. (Since they'll want both offensive and defensive Mythics, possibly some merges, and a good core on top of that.) And most people are mediocre rather than hilariously skilled.

And, beyond that, having only 1 Eir means that until everyone had like 10 or so free light blessings they lose one of the major advantages of Aether Raids over arena in having multiple teams. You can't run multiple teams if you only have 4 blessings and 1 Eir, unless you're just going to start a match as if you've lost 2 units to begin with.

 

Strictly speaking, I don't really have a problem with it---I'm bouncing between T17 and T19 in arena, for example, so you can tell how little I care about bragging rights---but it does feel kind of weird for a mode to go from mostly skill based (which is an extreme oddity in FEH) back to mostly resource based (which is par for the course for FEH). Mind the shift isn't really unexpected, just annoying.

 

[Othin]

Personally, I feel more incentivized to go for T21 in AR than Arena to be able to make use of the thrones I've already been getting.

[Azuris]

3 hours ago, Rezzy said:

I have lost too many times from trying to play when exhausted after a 12+ hour shift.

I am sorry. That's sad to hear and they really should try to find a way, that this is not a thing any more.

 

3 hours ago, DarkAlf said:

Unfortunately my first offensive loss (due to time-out) in nearly 3 weeks occurred today with the Escape Ladder already used.  Now it is mathematically impossible for me to reach T19 this week.

Aw, but there is always next week. With blessings it is more forgiving. I got it done, so you will as well. Good luck.

[Rezzy]

1 hour ago, Azuris said:

I am sorry. That's sad to hear and they really should try to find a way, that this is not a thing any more.

 

Aw, but there is always next week. With blessings it is more forgiving. I got it done, so you will as well. Good luck.

At least part of the problem could be solved by not capping Aether at 200.  Since it gets wiped at the end of the week anyway, I don't see why they couldn't just let you pile it up on days you're busy, and maybe give you a ticket for a free match every day that you could use later in the week, like the Summon Tickets.

I'm just trying to get into Tier 18 this week.

[DehNutCase]

5 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

I'm really confused as to how the game figures out who to match players against and when.

My defense map was challenged 4 times on the first day of this season, which makes sense because players have the most Aether to spend on the first day, but was challenged zero times on the second, 5 times on the third, and zero times today.

I'm really confused, but I don't mind the free points from not being challenged.

I have a small theory on why.

 

Day 1, everyone challenges random maps (they have to).

Day 2, the people who care rematch, carefully selecting the low merge challengers. (Which, I assume, you aren't---your +10s scare them off, basically.)

Day 3, Because day 2 has more rematches than regular matches, a lot of people are forced into random maps.

Day 4, See day 2.

 

Personally I only ever challenge random maps, and I assume you're the same way, so it's not obvious. (Strictly speaking, if all I cared about is lift I should do rematches, but challenging random maps gives me a better feel for the meta---theorycraft is good and all, but the difference between what could be and what is is sometimes big enough to let me run teams I have no business running if everyone was playing optimally.)

Edited December 21, 2018 by DehNutCase

[eclipse]

21 hours ago, Johann said:

It's possible that his Japanese name translates to SURTRBOY4EVA, I shouldn't rule that out

Do you have Aversa at 5*? She could probably handle it, unless I guess it's Lewyn or something, then I guess she'd need Green Tomebreaker

Nope, nor do I have the feathers to do so.  If I get desperate enough, I'll throw Sanaki at the problem.

[Ice Dragon]

6 hours ago, DehNutCase said:

Is maintaining T21 in Arena actually prestigious?

"Prestige" isn't "being good", it's "being bling". "Prestige" refers to the recognition itself ("being bling"), not the reason for the recognition ("being good").

Being at the top of the Arena isn't about being good at the game. It's about having both the resources to appease the scoring system and just enough skill to get through. The more resources you have, the less skill you need and vice versa, but you do need both and resources are worth more than skill.

If you're in the U.S., it's fairly comparable to performance on the SAT or ACT (standardized tests taken usually in the junior year of high school and are reported for college admissions), which are less about "being smart" as they are about gaming the test (test-taking ability and the ability to memorize useless-in-practice facts are at least as important as actually knowing your stuff).

[DehNutCase]

42 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

"Prestige" isn't "being good", it's "being bling". "Prestige" refers to the recognition itself ("being bling"), not the reason for the recognition ("being good").

That's basically the issue---if arena isn't a good measurement of skill, and people know it, then is the recognition actually there? (Mind, I do respect money, but +10 teams don't cost that much money, so arena would only be prestigious from a skill based perspective.)

Edited December 21, 2018 by DehNutCase

[XRay]

2 hours ago, DehNutCase said:

That's basically the issue---if arena isn't a good measurement of skill, and people know it, then is the recognition actually there? (Mind, I do respect money, but +10 teams don't cost that much money, so arena would only be prestigious from a skill based perspective.)

For Heroes, 5*+10 of certain units do cost a lot of money though. BB!Cordelia was super expensive to get to +10 because she shared a color with BB!Lyn; I spent around $2,000 and got 22 BB!Cordelias (I would have stopped at 11, but I kept going until I got a +Atk copy). For her reappearance in Fjorm's Legendary Focus, it would have been even more expensive to get her to +10 as she shared her color with BH!Lyn and Genny.

[Johann]

16 hours ago, Astellius said:

But the mythic blessings only benefit the whales, and, while there is a cap on how much anyone can benefit from the mythic blessings, the introduction of the blessings did nothing but only further widen the gap. I don't particularly take solace in the fact that there's a cap because this whole situation created a problem where there was none before. It puts whoever doesn't acquire multiple blessings via summoning at an inherent disadvantage, and this problem will be replicated again for when new mythic heroes are released. One will need to pull multiple copies of those in order to remain competitive when they come out. This will be ameliorated over time, as they start to make blessings available through other means, but, until then, this is all to the detriment of F2P players.

As for me just potentially quitting the mode, it's not simply because of rank, it's because the problems with the mode hinder my enjoyment of it. I'd like to see them address the problems.

I would argue that whales have benefited more from being able to build practically any team (particularly capitalizing on bonus units and powerful builds) more than what score boost Mythics will provide. We've only had one season thus far where people can even use Mythic blessings, and the people who want to throw their wallets and everything else they can at the mode have already done so; they're currently at ranks where those score boosts aren't widening the gap, but instead ensuring they can get those last 2 tiers with greater certainty.

I don't disagree that the mode has a variety of problems and I probably agree with some of your views on them.

15 hours ago, DehNutCase said:

I'm not sure 140 lift/fight is enough for anyone except those that are already top 1k or so to move up into T20. Hell, I'm not sure I'd be able to handle getting into T20 with 140 lift/fight, considering 1 Eir isn't enough to really leverage her buffing ability, and she doesn't do offensive support well.

It's a good catchup mechanic for people who started late but are good, but I don't think it'll help the people who started at the start time but fell behind.

That said, the fact that you can get max rewards, assuming perfect play, by just pulling 2 Eir is a lot better than Arena in terms of orbs spent vs. rewards. It's just that the skill requirement for max rewards with 3 Eir is kind of hilarious (I'd guess less than 500 or so of all players can make it to T21 consistently with just 3 Eir and nothing else---but maybe 10k or so would slowly trickle up from just getting lucky seasons), considering you won't have any leeway at all to make mistakes without defensive Mythics or Eir merges.

For what it's worth, if you've got a team that can score 140, starting at T19 you can potentially reach a final score of 10,160-- safely above the T20 requirement and with quite a fair amount of room for error on both Offense and Defense. Even if you got hit for -80 every single day, you'd still have 200 Lift worth of wiggle room on Offense. It's interesting that, at those kinds of thresholds, grabbing all the pots can matter more than keeping everybody alive.

I haven't fought against Defense teams of 6 yet though so it might be a bit presumptuous of me to assume that scoring so well will be realistic even for myself. Perhaps my own Defense results will fare better and balance it out, I dunno. I do suspect that the more common Spring Breeze cavalry setups will become less viable as it grows more difficult to place so many units in a corner and keep the pressure, especially as players get used to those tactics and place their ever improving Offense structures in anticipation for them.