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2 hours ago, Hilda said:

Here is the layout of my current defense map, i changed things around abit again. The video has some explanations. I am not a nativ English speaker so misstyping and grammatical errors are there.

*snip* 

That's an impressive and well though out defense. However in your video you didnt detail what would happen if someone would to put say a Surtr on the left yellow trap, which would be easily doable moving Surtr below the pillar and then dancing and moving left. Can Bride Lyn take him out with being danced? Or any other tanky unit for that matter, Surtr is just the most common atm. Without pass, Ephraim wont be doing anything aswell seeing as the tank blocks the path standing there.

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3 hours ago, Hilda said:

Here is the layout of my current defense map, i changed things around abit again. The video has some explanations. I am not a nativ English speaker so misstyping and grammatical errors are there.

It's a pretty solid map. Kinda surprised you only have 5 slots, are you not Tier 19? Anyway, with being able to use Robin and Azura to full scoring potential, I'd feel safe taking that layout on by either having Robin tank in that spot south of Ephraim, or use Smite + Gray Waves to have her attack him where he starts (though I'd be hesitant since she could end up counter killing everybody immediately).

2 hours ago, mampfoid said:

Grima giving extra lift perhaps saved my plans to get into tier 20. Gave her Summoner support and with 2 Eirs she is a big help. Got me my first two 160 wins ever. 

Currently at 8,840 lift. 

Best strategy in the game! I freakin' love this update

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1 hour ago, Falter said:

That's an impressive and well though out defense. However in your video you didnt detail what would happen if someone would to put say a Surtr on the left yellow trap, which would be easily doable moving Surtr below the pillar and then dancing and moving left. Can Bride Lyn take him out with being danced? Or any other tanky unit for that matter, Surtr is just the most common atm. Without pass, Ephraim wont be doing anything aswell seeing as the tank blocks the path standing there.

Noone has tried out so far. It really depends on the Surtr i guess and the opponent doesnt know which of the yellow maps is real. I mean you know now that the one below Hector is the trap, but once you enter this map with no explenation you dont know. And checking that yellow trap below Ephraim is a pretty risky gamble, because as i said you cant reposition/drawback into safety without triggering the trap below Hector or staying in Bride Lyns or Ephraims attack range range. If that yellow trap would be real... Surtr would die to Bride Lyn.
I mean you just saw a Surtr die to Bride Lyn with a Light blessing and supported by 2 Eirs for an additional of 10 RES and 10 HP. Someone that wants a perfect run wont try to test that yellow trap, not if he can test the yellow trap below Hector.

The boldest move I have seen was F!Grima being danced by L.Azura and moveing straight in to kill my Azura. That was last week and i had a different layout. I wasnt running Sigurd i was running Laevatinn in the upper left corner (also with 60 Atk so her Blade-Sword would constantly get buffed, and wings of mercy). That F!Grima died the next turn.

What i want to say is, there is never an unbeatable defense map. There is allways a weakpoint/entry point. But I am very confident with my Map so far it hasnt let me down, sure it gets beaten but they usually loose at least 1-3 unit in the process. There are occasions where they dont loose a unit at all. Last week that was the case for 2 matches out of the entire week, the rest was successfull wins or a loss of 1-3 or more units.

Besides I have allready planned my 6. unit once i get to Tier 19: Sanaki (who can reach 60 atk with an atk+ seal and has deahtblow + her personal tome for another +11 attack on initiaton + 6 atk from buffs)with wings of mercy and Azura will get guidance or i put in Micaiah with Sacrifice and do that shenanigans. I will get to that point eventually.
 

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-60 loss, two 140 wins. I missed an aether structure but that's not too bad. Only need 480 more lift this season to get into T20, and with four days to go and a ladder use on hand, that should be a snap.

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49 minutes ago, Hilda said:

Noone has tried out so far. It really depends on the Surtr i guess and the opponent doesnt know which of the yellow maps is real. I mean you know now that the one below Hector is the trap, but once you enter this map with no explenation you dont know. And checking that yellow trap below Ephraim is a pretty risky gamble, because as i said you cant reposition/drawback into safety without triggering the trap below Hector or staying in Bride Lyns or Ephraims attack range range. If that yellow trap would be real... Surtr would die to Bride Lyn.
I mean you just saw a Surtr die to Bride Lyn with a Light blessing and supported by 2 Eirs for an additional of 10 RES and 10 HP. Someone that wants a perfect run wont try to test that yellow trap, not if he can test the yellow trap below Hector.

Fair point. Knowing which trap is real in advance makes breaking a map much easier ofc. I'd probably test the trap below Hector first as well if I didnt know. It's hard to say what I would do, since of course I do know now.

In the end, results don't lie. And your map is definetely proving its working.

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Oh, Legendary Tiki will now get stats from Eir. Woo!

This will be fun... once I get off from work.

 

13 minutes ago, Rinco said:

Hey guys, would you give me some tips on my def setup? 

The first thing I notice is that it's really easy to snipe Robin because the structure 2 squares below her is breakable, allowing someone to snipe her and then Reposition away. I suggest putting the Fortress in that square instead of where it currently is.

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My first instinct with Hilda's map would be to bait below the left lightning trap with Surtr while the rest of his team hides on the left. Far enough in and Ephraim doesn't reach with either Sing or Galeforce, so he's basically just ramming against Surtr until he eats Bonfire. The following turn, Surtr would Menace Azura and Aversa would debuff all four units, since Azura and Lyn would clump up, while Sigurd would most likely take the right route, with Hector Pivoting over him. At that point, Sigurd would still be relatively scary, so bringing him down next would be priority.

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10 minutes ago, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

My first instinct with Hilda's map would be to bait below the left lightning trap with Surtr while the rest of his team hides on the left. Far enough in and Ephraim doesn't reach with either Sing or Galeforce, so he's basically just ramming against Surtr until he eats Bonfire. The following turn, Surtr would Menace Azura and Aversa would debuff all four units, since Azura and Lyn would clump up, while Sigurd would most likely take the right route, with Hector Pivoting over him. At that point, Sigurd would still be relatively scary, so bringing him down next would be priority.

yeah i have changed my Ephraim back to Pass on his B-Slot;), so he will go straight through Surtr after the first round of combat when he gets redanced, but yeah with his wings of mercy thats a valid option. I also unequipped Azuras weapon so she wont attack when that happens but instead dance Ephraim. If Ephraim dies on his first attack, then Sigurd will move or Bride Lyn will move towards your pack and one of them will be danced.

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38 minutes ago, Rinco said:

Hey guys, would you give me some tips on my def setup? 

 

Screenshot_20190110-163834.png

would need to know who has what equipped so one can see in what order the AI moves, but Aversa and F!Grima are pretty open to attacks

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10 minutes ago, Hilda said:

would need to know who has what equipped so one can see in what order the AI moves, but Aversa and F!Grima are pretty open to attacks

F!Grima: Expiration, Repo, Bonfire, Dragonskin, Vantage, Res Smoke, SS = Fierce Stance

Dancer Micaiah: Dawn Suzu, Dance, Iceberg, Atk/Res Bond, WoM, Res Ploy, SS = Atk Ploy

Rein (+10): Dire Thunder, no assist, Moonbow, Deathblow, Vantage, Hone Cav, SS = Quick Pulse (Light Blessed)

Horse Chrom: As shown on the image

Eir: Lyfjaberg, no assist, Iceberg, Swift Sparrow, Mystic Boost, Sparkling Boost, SS = Rest Tactic (Probably should change to Def Tactic)

Aversa (+6): Aversa's Night, Repo, Luna, HP/Spd 2, Renewal, Odd Res Wave, SS = HP/Res 2. (Light Blessed)

 

I took Ice Dragon's suggestion and put my Fortress 2 spaces below F!Grima. I can swap Aversa with the Fountain to protect her better. I also don't know if I need the Streetlamp where it is. Maybe I could put it below the real Heavy Trap to cluster that part a little bit more...

Edited by Rinco
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2 hours ago, Johann said:

Best strategy in the game! I freakin' love this update

Fully agree. It saved me from merging a Nowi or Fae, never planned something like that. 

Next season I'll have a +10 M!Marth, not very bulky, but useful. Might bless him. 

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2 minutes ago, Rinco said:

F!Grima: Expiration, Repo, Bonfire, Dragonskin, Vantage, Res Smoke, SS = Fierce Stance

I would change Bonfire to Moonbow so she can have a Special ready if the attacker and her only hit each other once but not kill each other.

6 minutes ago, Rinco said:

Rein (+10): Dire Thunder, no assist, Moonbow, Deathblow, Vantage, Hone Cav, SS = Quick Pulse

I would give him Rally Atk or something so he can still do something if he is not in range to attack the player. I would also switch out Vantage for any breaker or Chill Res.

8 minutes ago, Rinco said:

Horse Chrom: As shown on the image

You want to replace Aether with a lower cool down Special so he can actually activate it during his first round of combat. I recommend Luna since he is running Heavy Blade and got Hone Cavalry buffs.

10 minutes ago, Rinco said:

Eir: Lyfjaberg, no assist, Iceberg, Swift Sparrow, Mystic Boost, Sparkling Boost, SS = Rest Tactic (Probably should change to Def Tactic)

Again, I would put something in the Assist slot. If you do not have a lot of Repositions left, you can use Rally Atk. I would also run Moonbow so she can activate it in her first round of combat if she fights enemies who can counter.

12 minutes ago, Rinco said:

Aversa (+6): Aversa's Night, Repo, Luna, HP/Spd 2, Renewal, Odd Res Wave, SS = HP/Res 2.

I would run Moonbow for more frequent activation. Daylight is also an option if you would rather have her keep her HP up rather than kill things.

16 minutes ago, Rinco said:

I also don't know if I need the Streetlamp where it is. Maybe I could put it below the real Heavy Trap to cluster that part a little bit more...

Yeah, you generally want your buildings and traps to cluster together for maximum effect. I would also move the Snow Family a little towards the middle since it is not really doing anything being on the side. By the same token, you also want your Schools (D) and Panic Manor (D) in the middle 4 columns. You generally do not want to put too much stuff on the far left or far right column.

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43 minutes ago, Hilda said:

yeah i have changed my Ephraim back to Pass on his B-Slot;), so he will go straight through Surtr after the first round of combat when he gets redanced, but yeah with his wings of mercy thats a valid option. I also unequipped Azuras weapon so she wont attack when that happens but instead dance Ephraim. If Ephraim dies on his first attack, then Sigurd will move or Bride Lyn will move towards your pack and one of them will be danced.

If the rest of Surtr's team is positioned far enough to the left, it still shouldn't matter, since your own buildings are stopping Pass from being useful to him. Anyone from two tiles below where I'd place Surtr, onward, would be safe due to being four tiles away from Ephraim's initial point of assault. Moving the Lantern and Flower Bed elsewhere might give him opportunity for openings, but it's still easy enough for an attacker to just clog up every valid tile with their own units.

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18 minutes ago, XRay said:

I would change Bonfire to Moonbow so she can have a Special ready if the attacker and her only hit each other once but not kill each other.

I would give him Rally Atk or something so he can still do something if he is not in range to attack the player. I would also switch out Vantage for any breaker or Chill Res.

You want to replace Aether with a lower cool down Special so he can actually activate it during his first round of combat. I recommend Luna since he is running Heavy Blade and got Hone Cavalry buffs.

Again, I would put something in the Assist slot. If you do not have a lot of Repositions left, you can use Rally Atk. I would also run Moonbow so she can activate it in her first round of combat if she fights enemies who can counter.

I would run Moonbow for more frequent activation. Daylight is also an option if you would rather have her keep her HP up rather than kill things.

Yeah, you generally want your buildings and traps to cluster together for maximum effect. I would also move the Snow Family a little towards the middle since it is not really doing anything being on the side. By the same token, you also want your Schools (D) and Panic Manor (D) in the middle 4 columns. You generally do not want to put too much stuff on the far left or far right column.

All done. Looking like this now:

 

Screenshot_20190110-181312.png

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17 minutes ago, XRay said:

I would change Bonfire to Moonbow so she can have a Special ready if the attacker and her only hit each other once but not kill each other.

I would give him Rally Atk or something so he can still do something if he is not in range to attack the player. I would also switch out Vantage for any breaker or Chill Res.

You want to replace Aether with a lower cool down Special so he can actually activate it during his first round of combat. I recommend Luna since he is running Heavy Blade and got Hone Cavalry buffs.

Again, I would put something in the Assist slot. If you do not have a lot of Repositions left, you can use Rally Atk. I would also run Moonbow so she can activate it in her first round of combat if she fights enemies who can counter.

I would run Moonbow for more frequent activation. Daylight is also an option if you would rather have her keep her HP up rather than kill things.

Yeah, you generally want your buildings and traps to cluster together for maximum effect. I would also move the Snow Family a little towards the middle since it is not really doing anything being on the side. By the same token, you also want your Schools (D) and Panic Manor (D) in the middle 4 columns. You generally do not want to put too much stuff on the far left or far right column.

There is a reason he didnt put an assist on Eir and Reinhardt: They will be the first 2 to move and then Grima or Chrom move, which makes sense, becaus it puts them back in range of Miciah to be danced when they get ripod or swaped back into range. Putting an assist skill on Eir or Reinhardt can be counterproductiv.

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1 minute ago, Hilda said:

There is a reason he didnt put an assist on Eir and Reinhardt: They will be the first 2 to move and then Grima or Chrom move, which makes sense, becaus it puts them back in range of Miciah to be danced when they get ripod or swaped back into range. Putting an assist skill on Eir or Reinhardt can be counterproductiv.

Ah, okay.

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11 minutes ago, Rinco said:

All done. Looking like this now:

 

Screenshot_20190110-181312.png

solid not sure if moveing the fortress helped you or hurt you. it exposed the middle now to attack Chrom more easy

If i was engaging this map i would clear all the obsticals in the middle and right side quickly and disarm the trap below Chrom with Micaiah (blue). then i would proceed to kill Chrom with Miciaah, redance her and kill Aversa and swap her with Legendary Hector who will proceed to kill Reinhardt and Eir with distant counter. Grima will proceed to move get danced and end the move on the left pillar (below). At which point its easy.

Additionally could run my Hrid (galeforce, Heavy Blade) L.Hector Clair (Galeforce) and L. Azura Team against this. Repo Hrid into the yellow trap proceed to attack Chrom who will be debuffed form Hrids B-Skill (he has the lowest Res of the bunch), this will prolly kill Chrom and proc his galeforce and debuff all units with Atk Smoke, proceed to kill Reinhardt. Dance Clair who has repositioned Hrid, she will get 3 movement range ----> proceed to kill Aversa ----> galeforce ----> kill micaiaha dancer with her Aerobatics. At which point only Eir and F!Grima are left. The next round Eir will proceed to attack Clair because of Hrids distant counter, but wont kill her. F!Grima will proceed to Attack Clair because she cant double Hrid, which means Clair will most likely die.

Its a solid map

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1 hour ago, mampfoid said:

Fully agree. It saved me from merging a Nowi or Fae, never planned something like that. 

Next season I'll have a +10 M!Marth, not very bulky, but useful. Might bless him. 

I'd say go ahead and bless her, the Res and HP boosts are huge, especially with everything else you can do. Adding in S Support would get her to 72 HP, 35 Def, and 39 Res before any buffs, skills, the weapon refine, or Fortress boosts. Also note that next Light season will also be Fire and Water, so you can bring Fjorm along and she'll have the HP/Res+10 as well.

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4 minutes ago, Hilda said:

solid not sure if moveing the fortress helped you or hurt you. it exposed the middle now to attack Chrom more easy

If i was engaging this map i would clear all the obsticals in the middle and right side quickly and disarm the trap below Chrom with Micaiah (blue). then i would proceed to kill Chrom with Miciaah, redance her and kill Aversa and swap her with Legendary Hector who will proceed to kill Reinhardt and Eir with distant counter. Grima will proceed to move get danced and end the move on the left pillar (below). At which point its easy.

Additionally could run my Hrid (galeforce, Heavy Blade) L.Hector Clair (Galeforce) and L. Azura Team against this. Repo Hrid into the yellow trap proceed to attack Chrom who will be debuffed form Hrids B-Skill (he has the lowest Res of the bunch), this will prolly kill Chrom and proc his galeforce and debuff all units with Atk Smoke, proceed to kill Reinhardt. Dance Clair who has repositioned Hrid, she will get 3 movement range ----> proceed to kill Aversa ----> galeforce ----> kill micaiaha dancer with her Aerobatics. At which point only Eir and F!Grima are left. The next round Eir will proceed to attack Clair because of Hrids distant counter, but wont kill her. F!Grima will proceed to Attack Clair because she cant double Hrid, which means Clair will most likely die.

Its a solid map

What if I change Eir and Aversa's positions? That would make a little harder for a mage that just attacked Chrom to pick another unit safely, since Eir also has a high Res and doesn't have triangle disadvantage. Haven't done any calc, since Aversa's res is pretty high (even more in Light Season, like this week) and her HP is also larger than Eir's, maybe that wouldn't change that much the outcome.

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7 minutes ago, Johann said:

I'd say go ahead and bless her, the Res and HP boosts are huge, especially with everything else you can do. Adding in S Support would get her to 72 HP, 35 Def, and 39 Res before any buffs, skills, the weapon refine, or Fortress boosts. Also note that next Light season will also be Fire and Water, so you can bring Fjorm along and she'll have the HP/Res+10 as well.

Yeah, but Fjorm won't be bonus unit, so I'll go with S!Micaiah and Minizura along with double Eir and M!Marth. 

I'm running Fury + sealed Falchion on Marth, that's 43 DEF and 47 RES after the first hit. May have to check for a different A skill though. 

Would run Nahlia if I get her from tickets miraculously. 

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28 minutes ago, Rinco said:

What if I change Eir and Aversa's positions? That would make a little harder for a mage that just attacked Chrom to pick another unit safely, since Eir also has a high Res and doesn't have triangle disadvantage. Haven't done any calc, since Aversa's res is pretty high (even more in Light Season, like this week) and her HP is also larger than Eir's, maybe that wouldn't change that much the outcome.

In that case Eir can be baited by a Green Distant counter (Hector) unit in the lower right part, while i would leave the unit most vulnerable to the lowest right corner. Eir dies -----> Reinhardt moves, gets repositioned by Aversa, gets redanced by Micaiah (because chrom is blocking the possibility of Aversa getting danced). Moves again three spaces down and attacks the green bait unit proceeding to die ----> Chrom will move down and Robin will move either down or right at which point its just picking them apart, I would say keeping Aversa where she is makes it more difficult, because attacking Aversa is riskier and requires an assist skill

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11 minutes ago, Hilda said:

In that case Eir can be baited by a Green Distant counter (Hector) unit in the lower right part, while i would leave the unit most vulnerable to the lowest right corner. Eir dies -----> Reinhardt moves, gets repositioned by Aversa, gets redanced by Micaiah (because chrom is blocking the possibility of Aversa getting danced). Moves again three spaces down and attacks the green bait unit proceeding to die ----> Chrom will move down and Robin will move either down or right at which point its just picking them apart, I would say keeping Aversa where she is makes it more difficult, because attacking Aversa is riskier and requires an assist skill

I'm starting to realize I can't think that far ahead lol. I'll leave it this way and see how it goes for a couple days. I'm pretty much safe getting to Tier 20 this week, unless I screw really bad on offense, but still have 3 Ladders to use, so it shouldn't be a problem.

Thanks a lot!

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10 minutes ago, Rinco said:

I'm starting to realize I can't think that far ahead lol. I'll leave it this way and see how it goes for a couple days. I'm pretty much safe getting to Tier 20 this week, unless I screw really bad on offense, but still have 3 Ladders to use, so it shouldn't be a problem.

Thanks a lot!

I would like to note that a Flying Dancer with Aerobatics would give this map a total different dynamic. As in Reinhardt would get danced before he gets repositioned or swaped intensifying his range. But it also opens up a total different problematic of being able to bait the dancer from the far left. So you would need to unequip the dancers weapon, which weakens your left side a bit, but it would make baiting that much more difficult.

Edited by Hilda
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Just now, Hilda said:

I would like to note that a Flying Dancer with Aerobatics would give this map a total different dynamic. As in Reinhardt would get danced before he gets repositioned or swaped intensifying his range.

I knew I shouldn't have merged my extra copy of flying Nino =[
Even tho I have NY!Azura and Flying Olivia, neither of them have Aerobatics and sacrificing my only flying Nino would be sad, as a F2P player.

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