Aether Raids General Thread

[Johann]

13 hours ago, DehNutCase said:

I'm honestly a little curious about the thought process behind 6 Azama. Like, did the people building stuff like that actually lose against armor emblem? Because the team is strictly worse than an ward stacking armor emblem.

(Staves look like they'd have sustain because staves, but what actually happens is that you just bring in the exact same team you'd use against armor emblem and crush even harder than you would crush armor emblem because Azama can't kill shit, whereas armors can at least theoretically threaten a unit.)

To be fair, against that setup, any unit with less than 29 Res is a liability since the guy was dropping Savage Pain bombs all over the place, and most of those Azamas had around 50 HP and >40 Def/Res, along with a fully charged Miracle if they weren't dispatched on turn one. With a less fortunate team build, it's more than possible that a person either times out or loses a unit when being super aggressive. I still think it's an absurd level of investment though.

[DehNutCase]

2 hours ago, Johann said:

To be fair, against that setup, any unit with less than 29 Res is a liability since the guy was dropping Savage Pain bombs all over the place, and most of those Azamas had around 50 HP and >40 Def/Res, along with a fully charged Miracle if they weren't dispatched on turn one. With a less fortunate team build, it's more than possible that a person either times out or loses a unit when being super aggressive. I still think it's an absurd level of investment though.

2x savage blow + Pain is 24 damage, with a dancer that's 48. And if Azama took Savage Blow damage they'll prioritize healing over hitting for pain damage. (Edit: And since they're using restore staves rather than rehabilitate they heal for jack all thanks to their low ass Atk.)

 

Like, armor emblem is already un-losable unless you had team building issues, and Azama spam is easier than that.

Edited January 30, 2019 by DehNutCase

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

3 hours ago, Tree said:

I've run into two this season. I also have one of these easy defense teams, but that shouldn't matter for matching.

I guess I should have clarified, since I did see a couple in something like T17 and 18 way back: T21 joke teams. I kept hearing about how chill the tier is and now that I'm in it, I'm finding that it's not.

2 hours ago, Johann said:

To be fair, against that setup, any unit with less than 29 Res is a liability since the guy was dropping Savage Pain bombs all over the place, and most of those Azamas had around 50 HP and >40 Def/Res, along with a fully charged Miracle if they weren't dispatched on turn one. With a less fortunate team build, it's more than possible that a person either times out or loses a unit when being super aggressive. I still think it's an absurd level of investment though.

In this mage-and-tank-heavy meta, I think it'd be pretty unlikely that anyone at least semi-prepared would be forced to deploy a team with more than one unit with Res that low.

[Azuni]

Judging from the last 2 weeks, there's more normal (scary) defense teams up early on, then free teams pop up later. Last week I remember I ended up facing about 5~6 real defenses early on (laddered out of 3 of them since it's not worth the time calculating how to win) within the first 3 days, and 5+ free/theme teams later.

I just permanently leave the free team up since I don't care to harass other people in a mode that is a chill Grail Farm Simulator in T21.

[Tree]

3 hours ago, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

I guess I should have clarified, since I did see a couple in something like T17 and 18 way back: T21 joke teams. I kept hearing about how chill the tier is and now that I'm in it, I'm finding that it's not.

I actually didn't see that many in lower tiers (or at least wasn't as lucky). Because it is an off season week, Tier 20 is easier than Tier 19 was last season. That, and probably the better players in Tier 20 moved on to Tier 21.

[DehNutCase]

Ahahahha double Dancer + Reinhardt + Savage Blow healer is so retardedly fun to use. I just dance the healer twice and then Reinhardt goes in and Vantage kills everyone.

Missed an aether pot but I got to style on a pair of +10 armor emblem so it's cool. Edit: Mind, I could've easily gotten the pot, I just felt like Vantage killing everyone on EP during the 'go' turn.

 

Still need another pair of wins at 11,380 lift to be safe for the season, but it sure is relaxing not to have to drag 2 Eir around. (I rate her 10/10, but she doesn't support the type of teams I like to run.)

Edited January 31, 2019 by DehNutCase

[Nanima]

I don't care what anyone says about anything below Tier 20 being easy. Tier 19 is such an unfun slog fest, filled with the worst cancer, that I am honestly considering abandoning all my grail merge projects just so I never have to play AR again.

[DehNutCase]

The problem with AR is that it basically forces you to play the teams you absolutely hate to play against---because those are the ones that consistently make you lose---until you either get either so skilled that teams that can challenge you don't exist, or forever.* Which is kind of stupid. FEH is a god damn mobile game, not some elitist jerkassy Lunatic+ only game.

*You can also just whale up---I'm honestly pretty impressed by the people who designed Nailah and Eir. They're broken, but they're subtly broken, so people don't think 'oh wow I'm being carried by my 5*s' if they pull for them and use them properly. (I know I'm being carried, of course, but that's why I pulled for Nailah + Eir in the first place.)

 

Both Nailah and Eir actually guide you on how to use them properly with just their kit. Nailah loves being surrounded but not directly, which tells you to run people with Drives (Corrin), Tactics (Legendary Azura), and a way to sustain in EP (Noontime). Which dodges a lot of mobility B-slot shenanigans, while also wiping the enemy team. It feels like some grand idea to the people who pull her and use her, but the dev actually knew that was the right way for her to crush AR to begin with, hence why her kit was designed that way.

Eir is even more subtle (and actually slightly difficult to get 100% use out of), but the thing is that even the bare minimum Eir usage means she steamrolls AR for you. +bulk makes runs hilariously forgiving, especially when everyone and their grandmothers run like 4 mages for Ophelia.

 

Off-topic Edit: Legendary Azura is actually the main reason I bumped Reinhardt down from 10/10 perfect unit status even assuming he has a horse dancer support. I rated him highly because he supported in ways most people don't value (mobility + positioning) while also being 'classically' good. Legendary Azura is basically the support version of Rein, she supports in ways most people don't value (mobility + positioning from Gray Waves + flying mobility skill access), while also being 'classically' good (Prayer Wheel + being a dancer).

That is, she power-crept him in the one area he needed to be power crept to stop being all around absurd. (Since there's now a unit that's even more all around absurd.)

 

Between Leg Azura, Nailah, and Eir I honestly feel that there's at least a couple people in the FEH dev team that has an utterly absurd understanding of the game. I just wish they went the FGO way of encouraging pulls (waifu/husbando) rather than the 'classic' gacha method of powercreep into more powercreep, because the 'classic' method is a grab all the money you can as quickly as possible and then leave once the game explodes kind of thing. And FEH is deep enough to last quite a long time if they didn't go for that method.

Edited February 1, 2019 by DehNutCase

[Lewyn]

Okay I am really worried about Duma, really worried.  It is anima season.  I am in tier 20, and I have run into Duma one time.  That Duma was unmerged and was so easy to dispose of it was a joke. 

Anyone running into Duma, multiple Dumas?  Please say yes.

[Johann]

2 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Okay I am really worried about Duma, really worried.  It is anima season.  I am in tier 20, and I have run into Duma one time.  That Duma was unmerged and was so easy to dispose of it was a joke. 

Anyone running into Duma, multiple Dumas?  Please say yes.

Haven't seen a single Duma in T21 so far. People seem to be sticking to the same old tricks they had before. I don't think he's nearly as popular as, say, Legendary Azura.

[Lewyn]

7 minutes ago, Johann said:

Haven't seen a single Duma in T21 so far. People seem to be sticking to the same old tricks they had before. I don't think he's nearly as popular as, say, Legendary Azura.

I see Legendary Azura on almost every team.  Anyways this is exactly what I feared, and while there are no numbers anywhere, if he is nowhere to be found in arena or Aether raids it is likely he is a financial failure.  On reddit there is only one post showing a +10 Duma, only one.  So here it is, whales don't want him cause he is bad in Aether raids even though that is his main purpose supposedly, they don't want him in arena cause he isn't 180BST like other recent armors, so why do they pull for him?  Bold fighter can be found on other armors, and def/res solo is new but not good for many characters.

So unimpressive for mode he was made for, nothing special skill inheritances wise, Christmas armor 2017 BST rather than the 180 that we've seen recent ones get, and an awkward starting kit.  They set him up for failure.  They make alts like Azura broken as heck but not a supposed god.  

I'll remember this when mythic heroes eventually becomes alts like all the other banners. 

[DehNutCase]

I see Duma every once in a while, but the thing is he literally doesn't matter for jack squat. The best case for him is gaining you 52 lift a day, which is peanuts. Until the offensive mythic pair for him is released Anima is just going to be a 'stay where you are' week.

[Tree]

12 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Okay I am really worried about Duma, really worried.  It is anima season.  I am in tier 20, and I have run into Duma one time.  That Duma was unmerged and was so easy to dispose of it was a joke. 

Anyone running into Duma, multiple Dumas?  Please say yes.

I've seen one in Tier 20. The team was easier to beat (even with legendary Azura), because he didn't synergize well with the rest. It was more like fighting a five unit team, than a six unit one. There aren't many anima blessings available yet, so unless you have gotten several Dumas, you'll have trouble filling out a blessed team. You can use legendaries, but that will make team synergy even harder to set up. I've spent over 100 orbs, and didn't get one, so I imagine that many players are in a similar situation. Once Astral heroes are added, his value will increase.

 

 

[colossus86]

I never had the slightest amount of faith in Duma simply because he's a melee armor unit, i.e. the singe worst thing in the game for AR defense. You can get good use out of a melee armor on offense, provided you have a decent way to lug them around. But outside of stall cheese comps with ward stacking (a strat that entirely depends on your opponent not having an armor buster team at the ready) there's nothing for a melee armor to do on defense but wait to be killed after all the meaningful combat has wrapped up. The only melee armor that really belongs on defense is L!Hector and just for Ostia's Pulse.

One thing to remember is that new banners/heroes are decided and put together 3-6 months before players get there hands on them. Duma might have been designed when AR hadn't been released and IS was just unaware of how the meta would shape up.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

I haven't seen any Dumas, either, but small sample size and all. Still mostly just seeing suiciding glass cannons, anyway.

Finally ran into a defense that didn't have Hardy Bearing Ophelia or a Lilina/dancer!Micaiah first striker and got to pull out Vantage L!Hector for some shenanigans. He killed a Nino, Reinhardt and H!Jakob. I had his Atk all beefed up to one-shot Lilina if she got sung over, but their L!Azura's turn was spent on a Nino rally trap.

[Lewyn]

59 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

I see Duma every once in a while, but the thing is he literally doesn't matter for jack squat. The best case for him is gaining you 52 lift a day, which is peanuts. Until the offensive mythic pair for him is released Anima is just going to be a 'stay where you are' week.

I thought preventing lift loss was pretty nice as it makes it easier to climb and maintain, but I guess not.  

58 minutes ago, Tree said:

I've seen one in Tier 20. The team was easier to beat (even with legendary Azura), because he didn't synergize well with the rest. It was more like fighting a five unit team, than a six unit one. There aren't many anima blessings available yet, so unless you have gotten several Dumas, you'll have trouble filling out a blessed team. You can use legendaries, but that will make team synergy even harder to set up. I've spent over 100 orbs, and didn't get one, so I imagine that many players are in a similar situation. Once Astral heroes are added, his value will increase.

 

 

Maybe we ran into the same one, I wouldn't be surprised.  He was also just there, separate from the rest of the team.  As for orb spending, seems every defense team has Legendary Azura so there shouldn't be anything preventing those same individuals from getting a Duma.  

 

50 minutes ago, colossus86 said:

I never had the slightest amount of faith in Duma simply because he's a melee armor unit, i.e. the singe worst thing in the game for AR defense. You can get good use out of a melee armor on offense, provided you have a decent way to lug them around. But outside of stall cheese comps with ward stacking (a strat that entirely depends on your opponent not having an armor buster team at the ready) there's nothing for a melee armor to do on defense but wait to be killed after all the meaningful combat has wrapped up. The only melee armor that really belongs on defense is L!Hector and just for Ostia's Pulse.

One thing to remember is that new banners/heroes are decided and put together 3-6 months before players get there hands on them. Duma might have been designed when AR hadn't been released and IS was just unaware of how the meta would shape up.

Surtr was quite the menace for awhile, still run into him on rare occasion (more than Duma still).  Ooh Ostia pulse, I haven't taken advantage of that.  

I realize Duma may have been designed before but it still doesn't excuse the low BST.  His breath is dependent on opponent being injured to get extra stats, otherwise his bulk is very underwhelming.  They gave Surtr 180BST, in addition to all the loli dragon armors.  

That's my other thing with alts, give new heroes a fair chance.  They make alts have the strongest skills and weapons, and stats, in addition to introducing new move/weapon types.  Then they can point to sales and go see alts are better.  When if they made new heroes broken they would sell too.   Make Knoll who everyone made fun of, a 170BST mage armor and I'm sure he would sell too.  Busted stuff sells, so put that stuff on new faces too.  Look at how many alts sit high on tier lists.   

[DehNutCase]

28 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

I thought preventing lift loss was pretty nice as it makes it easier to climb and maintain, but I guess not.  

It's nice, that is, something you'd like to have. But it's not something you need to have. The biggest lift gains are very much the offensive mythics. Eir is 120 lift/day with 2 copies, or 160 lift/day with 22 copies, or 180 lift/day with 33 copies. Duma is 32 lift/day with 2 copies, or 52 lift/day with 22. Eir is basically 3-4 times as good in the lift department.

 

You'd rather have your 1st and 2nd copies of Duma over your 4th copy of Eir, but after that and before that it's Eir all the way.

Edited February 1, 2019 by DehNutCase

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

I guess it there's one thing Duma has going for him on defense, is if he gives up Bold Fighter for Wings of Mercy, that Atk stat would let him do some real nasty surprise fist-to-facing.

Duma + legendaries is also a legit whatever strat in the case where one expects to just be continually run over by super whales. If one is going to be eating full loss all the time, might as well minimize what that full loss is.

[colossus86]

1 hour ago, DehNutCase said:

It's nice, that is, something you'd like to have. But it's not something you need to have. The biggest lift gains are very much the offensive mythics. Eir is 120 lift/day with 2 copies, or 160 lift/day with 22 copies or 200 lift/day with 33 copies. Duma is 32 lift/day with 2 copies, or 52 lift/day with 22. Eir is basically 3-4 times as good in the lift department.

 

You'd rather have your 1st and 2nd copies of Duma over your 4th copy of Eir, but after that and before that it's Eir all the way.

This points to the inherent flaw in the value proposition of defensive mythics. You're obligated to run offensive mythics to reach certain tiers and to stay competitive in weakly rankings, but defensive mythics are a solution to a problem you might not have. If you routinely perform well enough on defense that it doesn't keep you from your goals (whatever those may be), then what value do defensive mythics have? This is especially bad in Duma's case as he himself is not a good unit for AR defense.

I just hope to god that whatever Dark Mythic we get actually fits into AR.

Edited February 2, 2019 by colossus86

[Lewyn]

1 hour ago, DehNutCase said:

It's nice, that is, something you'd like to have. But it's not something you need to have. The biggest lift gains are very much the offensive mythics. Eir is 120 lift/day with 2 copies, or 160 lift/day with 22 copies, or 180 lift/day with 33 copies. Duma is 32 lift/day with 2 copies, or 52 lift/day with 22. Eir is basically 3-4 times as good in the lift department.

 

You'd rather have your 1st and 2nd copies of Duma over your 4th copy of Eir, but after that and before that it's Eir all the way.

Yes Eir lift gain is amazing, and there is no way you can gain as many points.  Meanwhile on defense, good teams can sometimes go days without a loss which means Duma has no effect there.  Duma also is a poor defense unit like others have said (this is on IS), and probably going to lower your chances of victory.

However I thought at least some people would be running 2 copies unmerged, it isn't that he is everywhere.  It is like he is almost never found.  It is like trying to find a Mist or something.  

[DehNutCase]

52 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

However I thought at least some people would be running 2 copies unmerged, it isn't that he is everywhere.  It is like he is almost never found.  It is like trying to find a Mist or something.  

Not having an offensive pair for him means that any benefit he has is completely worthless. If 80 lift/day from perfect defenses don't do anything then 52 lift/day is going to do all of jack all. T21 is unreachable without an offensive mythic, so you're better off spending the 'off-season' testing defense teams that you'll actually use in seasons that matter. Like, there are stupid whales, but on average whales should be better at the game than non-whales. And good players don't invest in worthless units.*

 

*Because of his blessing type he's worthless on offense, since Light and Anima don't mix. On defense I actually think he's pretty good, but the team comp he's pretty good in runs 6 copies of him, meaning you don't actually get his lift bonus beyond the -20 from merges.

Edit: Oh, actually, Mythic heroes don't get Mythic hero bonuses even if they happened to be something like a Light/Dark hero pair. Dark and Anima heroes will just forever be useless.

Edited February 2, 2019 by DehNutCase

[Landjager]

If my math is right, after the update, higher AR tiers will have a maximum of 23 possible matches. Seven free matches. 12 matches from the natural stamina gain plus 20 extra stamina. That makes 18 matches where breaking the pots matters for another 180 stamina. That means an extra 4 matches. Grand total is 23. Maximum possible lift for a double unmerged Eir team becomes 3680. For a triple fully merged Eir team, it is 4370.

[DehNutCase]

Your math is really weird.

 

Aether/fight is capped at 50 and we don't get free fights. Assuming 2 pots broken per fight then it's actually 40 Aether/fight except for the last one, which costs 50.

We get 200 at start of season and 420 from natural regen, making it 15 matches a week at max. Which is way too much for my taste. (Especially if you consider escape ropes, meaning it's like 18 if you fuck up. Right now I only need to do like 10, including fuck ups.)

[Rezzy]

3 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

Your math is really weird.

 

Aether/fight is capped at 50 and we don't get free fights. Assuming 2 pots broken per fight then it's actually 40 Aether/fight except for the last one, which costs 50.

We get 200 at start of season and 420 from natural regen, making it 15 matches a week at max. Which is way too much for my taste. (Especially if you consider escape ropes, meaning it's like 18 if you fuck up. Right now I only need to do like 10, including fuck ups.)

I forget, do you get 20 aether back if you break both the aether pots in a match?

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

20%, so you'd get 10 back from the 50-capped matches.