Least Favorite FE Character?

[Erureido]

I remember making a post in a thread with that exact same topic a few months ago. I'll just copy and paste my least favorites here:

Quote

Peri: She murders people for fun and almost no one in the Fates cast ever calls her out for it. She also makes almost every character she interacts with a worser character by the end of their supports with her (Keaton and Leo being infamous examples). Her support with Laslow is the only thing I really like about her.

Camilla: You might as well just call her "Miss Fanservice," because that's how Fates treats her. Her tragic past is never really brought up except for one support, and most of the time, she just obsesses over Corrin to the point of being a very creepy and disturbing yandere. I also didn't like most of her supports and dialogue, as I found her to be quite disturbing in most of them. There's her B-support with Takumi where she infantilizes him to the point he feels very uncomfortable, her A-support with Selena where she threatens to cut her legs off, and when she hits on Hinoka right after the Nohrian army massacres the Hoshidan capital. I definitely would not want her to be my sister, that's for sure. 

Faye: The worst example of a love-driven character I've ever seen in fiction. There is already the obvious issue that she is a one-note with her feelings for Alm, but what really grinds my gears about is how much of a bitch she is to others because of her obsession with Alm. She tells Alm, "Forget about Celica and fall in love with me instead," immediately following his argument with Celica (a moment where Alm was likely feeling shocked and upset), and that makes her come across as a very unpleasant. She also only cares about Alm, evident by how most of her supports with Silque are just her telling Silque to bug off because she isn't Alm, followed by her third base conversation where she disregards her parents' plea to write more about herself as she joyfully says, "I just can't stop writing about Alm." Moreover, she ultimately never changes as a character as her character ending suggests, and we never learn why she's so attached to Alm. If you're going to make her romance such a defining part of her character, at least give us a backstory where it originated from, IS.

I think I should list some dishonorable mentions just to bring something more originality to what I wrote.

Anna: Never found her character appealing in the slightest. She is basically just a far less entertaining version of Mr. Krabs, where she talks about money and business in a way that feels dull, uninteresting, and quite frankly, annoying. I ended up liking her Heroes incarnation more just because she doesn't get annoying with all the money talk and only brings it up in the seasonal-themed prologues, but I still don't care for her all that much there. 

Miriel: "For Science" is basically the extent of her character, and it ultimately leaves me feeling nothing for her. Laurent inherited that same gimmick from her mother, but I appreciate him much more because he at least has more character beyond that because of how he came from Lucina's past and thus feels the trauma that she has.

Gharnef archetypes: More specifically, the three that I've encountered thus far: Validar, Jedah, and Riev. They just want to resurrect the ancient evil god for reasons that can be summed up as "I'm evil" and that's about it. They feel so shallowly evil that end up being hate-able and disappointing characters.

Garon/Iago/Hans: Saturday morning cartoon villains who'd probably kick a puppy just for the sake of being evil and that's it. I like Garon a bit more than Iago and Hans just because Garon has some backstory behind how he became corrupted, but Fates didn't explore it very well, so it doesn't save Garon all that much.

Slayde: Another Saturday morning cartoon villain who felt so generic, dull, and hateable I couldn't care less about him. I mean, sure, he is supposed to be the coward-type villain, but I didn't find him to be a good one at that. He even overstays his welcome for a villain. Was there really a point in bringing him back in Act IV, because honestly, he felt only relevant during Act I and that was it.

Fernand: As I like to call him, "The Green-Armored Douchebag," Fernand is a classist douche who leaves the Deliverance purely because of Alm being of "common birth" and not because appointing a soldier that just recently joined the army as a leader can have serious consequences. He also comes across as a snobbish jerk in most of his cutscenes following it. The game tries to make him a tragic villain when they explain his backstory of how he developed his hatred for commoners, but he takes it to such an extreme (not to mention his betrayal happens too early in the game), it's hard to feel bad for him. The DLC does portray him in a better light though by showing what he was like before his family was killed, but it still didn't change my opinion on him. It doesn't help that he can just be removed from SoV and the plot wouldn't change at all. At least Fernand has a good VA though.

Berkut: Abusive boyfriend to his fiancé who also comes across as a whiny man-child. Maybe if the game actually showed how accomplished he is a Rigelian general and more scenes of him and Rinea bonding, I probably would've been convinced otherwise, but that doesn't happen. His redemption in Act V is also a joke (Rinea shouldn't even forgive him after all the crap he did to her), and he ended up being as inconsequential to the plot as Fernand was because he didn't actually affect SoV's narrative. Admittedly, Berkut does have a nice character design, arguably one of the best voice performances for an FE character, and all of his themes are some of my favorite tracks in Fire Emblem; it's his character that bothers me.

[Sub Zero]

On 11/12/2018 at 9:48 AM, NinjaMonkey said:

Why is this in Entertainment and not the General FE board where it belongs?

Anyway, it's Micaiah.

Sorry, I am pretty new to Serenes. I dont know much yet..

 

On 11/12/2018 at 11:15 AM, Ertrick36 said:

This is definitely not the correct thread, and there are probably other threads like this, but I'll participate nonetheless.

So far, my least favorites in the series are Xander and Azura.  Yes, there are some good elements to them, but as they are main characters and also a driving force for the plot, those are the roles where they really need to shine.  But instead, they fail horribly.  In these roles, Azura is little more than an exposition bot (because doing any more would break that cool aura of mystery and neutrality she's supposed to have), and Xander makes certain decisions in all paths that both needlessly extend the length of the story and make things worse for literally everyone (yet we're supposed to think he's wise, brave, and honorable for making these decisions).  Yes, there are less likable characters, and yes there are characters who are probably written worse, but main characters fall much harder than forgettable side characters; I can ignore Setsuna, but I can't ignore Xander.

Aside from that, I'll go game-by-game.

FE4: Sylvia.  I'm not a fan of the sexually promiscuous and outright horny 13 year-old angle, and I also don't like the petty love triangle crap between her and Fury over Lewyn (I never liked that stupidly anime conflict of two girls fighting over a guy).  I will say that I like her interaction with Claude in Chapter 4, but I just wish their actual familial relationship was clearer (goddammit, Kaga).

FE 1/11: Camus.  I feel like I just don't like this kind of character, or maybe I have a problem with the approach IS always takes with this archetype.  To be fair though, I didn't list Eldigan, but I also think Eldigan is the one Camus that was actually done well.  But keep in mind, I only dislike the original Shadow Dragon iteration of Camus; I do like him when he's Zeke and Sirius.

FE 2/15: Nomah.  You thought I was gonna list Alm or Celica, didn't you?  Or maybe Berkut or Faye?  The difference is that I got some entertainment out of all those characters, even if it wasn't intentional.  But Nomah's just a useless sack of shit.  There's nothing interesting about him, and Echoes doesn't even do much to help him with that.  He's just a boring old man who probably could've been left behind at the monastery and no one would notice his absence.

FE 12: Kris.  Why does my avatar have to be a complete kiss-ass to Marth?  And why is it that this random auxiliary unit is more important than the goddamn king who led the army and liberated the entire continent?  Answer is he/she isn't, but the narrative thinks he/she is for no reason.  If Kris was handled like Robin, they would've been a substantially better avatar.

FE 13: Either Severa or Validar.  The only reason Severa might be better than Validar is because of her personality in Fates.  So Validar is obviously an uninteresting antagonist who mostly serves as a foil for Robin's conflicts, I feel like that's all I need to say about him.  Severa is such an irredeemable dick to everyone except Noire.  Why the hell is she only kind to Noire?  Is Noire just that sorry a specimen that not even the rotten Severa could bring herself to be a jerk to her?  Anyway, Severa is basically a school yard bully to all the kids (aside from Noire) and a spoiled brat to her parents.

( Response to Xander and Azura ) Honestly I think all the characters in Fates were just boring, even the Awakening lookalikes ( Examples: Laslow and Selena ) they just seem lackluster compared to the great characters we had in Awakening, actually they're not just lackluster they're just straight out DISRESPECTING the Awakening characters, I think FE took a thousand steps back in terms of character development.

 ( Response to Sylvia ) I personally didn't play FE4 as much as I played other games in the series but I can see why you don't like her, she really just creeped me out during my playthrough in FE4.

( Response to Camus ) Yeah I just don't like him don't ask me why its complicated

( Response to Nomah ) RESPECT YO ELDERS YOU DWEEB 

Lame jokes aside I get why you dislike his character, he's just an old man, he just looks old and frail. I honestly feel bad for him.

( Response to Kris ) At least he's better than Corrin.... 

( Response to Severa and Validar ) I won't respond to the Severa part because I don't want to give you my bias filled response. ( I'll give you my reasoning of liking her if you really are curious ). Validar is probably one of the lamest villains in Fire Emblem, If you grinded like hell before the fight it shouldn't be that hard.

 

 

12 hours ago, Erureido said:

I remember making a post in a thread with that exact same topic a few months ago. 

I'll just copy and paste my least favorites here:I think I should list some dishonorable mentions just to bring something more originality to what I wrote.

Anna: Never found her character appealing in the slightest. She is basically just a far less entertaining version of Mr. Krabs, where she talks about money and business in a way that feels dull, uninteresting, and quite frankly, annoying. I ended up liking her Heroes incarnation more just because she doesn't get annoying with all the money talk and only brings it up in the seasonal-themed prologues, but I still don't care for her all that much there. 

Miriel: "For Science" is basically the extent of her character, and it ultimately leaves me feeling nothing for her. Laurent inherited that same gimmick from her mother, but I appreciate him much more because he at least has more character beyond that because of how he came from Lucina's past and thus feels the trauma that she has.

Gharnef archetypes: More specifically, the three that I've encountered thus far: Validar, Jedah, and Riev. They just want to resurrect the ancient evil god for reasons that can be summed up as "I'm evil" and that's about it. They feel so shallowly evil that end up being hate-able and disappointing characters.

Garon/Iago/Hans: Saturday morning cartoon villains who'd probably kick a puppy just for the sake of being evil and that's it. I like Garon a bit more than Iago and Hans just because Garon has some backstory behind how he became corrupted, but Fates didn't explore it very well, so it doesn't save Garon all that much.

Slayde: Another Saturday morning cartoon villain who felt so generic, dull, and hateable I couldn't care less about him. I mean, sure, he is supposed to be the coward-type villain, but I didn't find him to be a good one at that. He even overstays his welcome for a villain. Was there really a point in bringing him back in Act IV, because honestly, he felt only relevant during Act I and that was it.

Fernand: As I like to call him, "The Green-Armored Douchebag," Fernand is a classist douche who leaves the Deliverance purely because of Alm being of "common birth" and not because appointing a soldier that just recently joined the army as a leader can have serious consequences. He also comes across as a snobbish jerk in most of his cutscenes following it. The game tries to make him a tragic villain when they explain his backstory of how he developed his hatred for commoners, but he takes it to such an extreme (not to mention his betrayal happens too early in the game), it's hard to feel bad for him. The DLC does portray him in a better light though by showing what he was like before his family was killed, but it still didn't change my opinion on him. It doesn't help that he can just be removed from SoV and the plot wouldn't change at all. At least Fernand has a good VA though.

Berkut: Abusive boyfriend to his fiancé who also comes across as a whiny man-child. Maybe if the game actually showed how accomplished he is a Rigelian general and more scenes of him and Rinea bonding, I probably would've been convinced otherwise, but that doesn't happen. His redemption in Act V is also a joke (Rinea shouldn't even forgive him after all the crap he did to her), and he ended up being as inconsequential to the plot as Fernand was because he didn't actually affect SoV's narrative. Admittedly, Berkut does have a nice character design, arguably one of the best voice performances for an FE character, and all of his themes are some of my favorite tracks in Fire Emblem; it's his character that bothers me.

Peri The thought of people crushing on her just disturbs me..

Camilla BEGONE THOT

Faye Eww...just..EWW

DISHONORABLE MENTIONS

Anna I never really minded her to be perfectly honest. ( And Mr. Krabs is more annoying than Anna in my opinion but lets not get off track here )

Miriel I just despise the really nerdy characters like her, you can never fucking understand her, And she probably made up some of the words to sound smarter..

Gharnef archetypes I never really liked FE villains because of the " I'm evil because I'm evil " thing, that just bores me.

Garon/Iago/Hans Don't even get me started on those crapstains of characters..
 

Slayde I never got the point of him, he should of just stayed as a tutorial boss

Fernand I absolutely despise snobby characters which makes me despise him, absolutely no reason to like him.

Berkut I don't know how to feel about him, I felt bad for him but then I didn't, he's just a blank void in my eyes.

 

On 11/12/2018 at 9:43 AM, Arcphoenix said:

Surtr. No other competition that I can think of right away

I never heard of Surtr..is he from Heroes?

 

On 11/12/2018 at 10:07 AM, Michelaar said:

Ike. Don't want to start shit so I'll leave it at that.

You can just PM me if you want :3

 

On 11/12/2018 at 10:07 AM, deskita said:

Priam, more due to lack of interest than actual dislike.

He is kinda boring, not worth going through a difficult chapter just to get a lame character for the final battle.

[CapnStix]

Nothing wrong with Peri, or Tharja. Not their fault they are how they are.

[DragonFlames]

I have three general criteria for disliking characters:

1.) The shameless wannabe "cool guy" that flirts with anything even resembling a female. As someone who believes that love belongs to only one person at any one time, this archetype is disgusting to me, honestly, especially if it's portrayed in a "haha, that's funny!" kind of way. It doesn't help that most of them tend to come across as (potential) sex offenders. And yet, for whatever reason, this character tends to end up pretty high on popularity lists, which is part of the reason humanity has lost my faith. 
Specific examples include: Gatrie, Sain, Virion, Inigo, Gray, Soleil, Saul, (Heather), Ruke / Luke
Sub-category: Characters that come across as plain creepy thanks to their personalities.
Specific examples: Niles, Gregor, Makalov, Silas

2.) The bratty kid who wants to be all adult-y and thinks he's better than anyone or anything, thereby making himself look like even more of a wuss. Worse when their gameplay is the exact opposite of those claims (which is why Delthea is missing from this list, because 1) she can actually back her claims of superiority up through gameplay and 2) she has other personality traits that make her endearing).
Specific examples: Tormod, Ricken, Hayato

3.) The arrogant asshole that never gets called out on their arrogance or assholery and even if they do, they never actually suffer consequences for it. I don't think I need to elaborate on why.
Specific examples: Innes, Shinon, Subaki, Takumi
Sub-category: The asshole in general that is an asshole for no good reason and never gets called out on it / never suffers consequences for it.
Specific examples: Colm, Takumi

If any character falls under one of these three criteria, they immediately end up on this list and as far as units go, will always be on the bench, no matter how "good" they are.

For characters not in one or more of these criteria, I have compiled a seperate list per game I've played.
FE6: Bors. This isn't about his character but more about his design. I haven't played FE6 enough to actually judge characters, but as far as Knights go, he has probably the worst design out of all of them. I mean, look at that stupid haircut!
FE7: Kent. Generic "I am loyal" cavalier is generic. Moving on.
FE8: Ephraim. Fire Emblem's very own Kirito before Kirito was even a thing. I don't like many characters is Sacred Stones and I could name a few more, but this is a "one per game" list, so you're in luck this time L'Arachel.
FE9: Soren. I don't care about your backstory, you are a racist prick.
FE10: Sothe. "I am generic as hell. I was also an a-hole in FE9." He also sucks as a unit in both games, so... yay? And I'll be the one to say this: His design sucks, too.
FE11: Can't think of anyone, really, since they're either Marth, Caeda, Tiki, Minerva, or a villain, or so irrelevant to anything that they barely have character to them. I'm gonna pick Gordin for his annoying voice in the OVA, because I'm feeling petty today.
FE12: See above. I already mentioned Ruke / Luke, so he's out.
FE13: Donnel, because his presence physically annoys me.
FE14 Birthright: Kiragi. Hunting animals out of necessity is one thing. Killing living creatures for fun, and then having the gall to be proud of yourself when you did it is quite another. You know how poaching is a thing? You know how animals are going extinct? It's because of psychopathic dirtbags such as this. This annoying brat with his crap-eating grin is possibly even worse than his father when it comes to characters I utterly despise.
FE14 Conquest: Xander. Xander. Xander. Xander. Xander. Xander. And no, supports don't count. In fact, they make him seem even worse than he already is to me.
FE14 Revelation: Azura. Azura. Azura. Azura. Azura. Azura. Azura. And no, supports don't count. In fact, they make her seem even worse than she already is to me.
And yes, there are now six Xander's and seven Azura's in Fates. The games just got 13 times worse for me now.
FE15: Clive, because he is a bad unit. Really, aside from Gray, I don't really dislike anyone in Echoes, character-wise.

series as a whole: Anna. This one deserves a special mention, because ever since Awakening, she has been nothing but "money, money, money, money, money". It's been getting on my nerves ever since Awakening and it's only gotten worse with every installment since. Worse yet, since she's apparently the franchise mascot now (ugh), I'll have to deal with this money-hungry incarnation of her in probably every game from now on. I was truly relieved to find out she wasn't in Echoes.

[CapnStix]

8 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:

I have three general criteria for disliking characters:

1.) The shameless wannabe "cool guy" that flirts with anything even resembling a female. As someone who believes that love belongs to only one person at any one time, this archetype is disgusting to me, honestly, especially if it's portrayed in a "haha, that's funny!" kind of way. It doesn't help that most of them tend to come across as (potential) sex offenders. And yet, for whatever reason, this character tends to end up pretty high on popularity lists, which is part of the reason humanity has lost my faith. 
Specific examples include: Gatrie, Sain, Virion, Inigo, Gray, Soleil, Saul, (Heather), Ruke / Luke
Sub-category: Characters that come across as plain creepy thanks to their personalities.
Specific examples: Niles, Gregor, Makalov, Silas

2.) The bratty kid who wants to be all adult-y and thinks he's better than anyone or anything, thereby making himself look like even more of a wuss. Worse when their gameplay is the exact opposite of those claims (which is why Delthea is missing from this list, because 1) she can actually back her claims of superiority up through gameplay and 2) she has other personality traits that make her endearing).
Specific examples: Tormod, Ricken, Hayato

3.) The arrogant asshole that never gets called out on their arrogance or assholery and even if they do, they never actually suffer consequences for it. I don't think I need to elaborate on why.
Specific examples: Innes, Shinon, Subaki, Takumi
Sub-category: The asshole in general that is an asshole for no good reason and never gets called out on it / never suffers consequences for it.
Specific examples: Colm, Takumi

If any character falls under one of these three criteria, they immediately end up on this list and as far as units go, will always be on the bench, no matter how "good" they are.

For characters not in one or more of these criteria, I have compiled a seperate list per game I've played.
FE6: Bors. This isn't about his character but more about his design. I haven't played FE6 enough to actually judge characters, but as far as Knights go, he has probably the worst design out of all of them. I mean, look at that stupid haircut!
FE7: Kent. Generic "I am loyal" cavalier is generic. Moving on.
FE8: Ephraim. Fire Emblem's very own Kirito before Kirito was even a thing. I don't like many characters is Sacred Stones and I could name a few more, but this is a "one per game" list, so you're in luck this time L'Arachel.
FE9: Soren. I don't care about your backstory, you are a racist prick.
FE10: Sothe. "I am generic as hell. I was also an a-hole in FE9." He also sucks as a unit in both games, so... yay? And I'll be the one to say this: His design sucks, too.
FE11: Can't think of anyone, really, since they're either Marth, Caeda, Tiki, Minerva, or a villain, or so irrelevant to anything that they barely have character to them. I'm gonna pick Gordin for his annoying voice in the OVA, because I'm feeling petty today.
FE12: See above. I already mentioned Ruke / Luke, so he's out.
FE13: Donnel, because his presence physically annoys me.
FE14 Birthright: Kiragi. Hunting animals out of necessity is one thing. Killing living creatures for fun, and then having the gall to be proud of yourself when you did it is quite another. You know how poaching is a thing? You know how animals are going extinct? It's because of psychopathic dirtbags such as this. This annoying brat with his crap-eating grin is possibly even worse than his father when it comes to characters I utterly despise.
FE14 Conquest: Xander. Xander. Xander. Xander. Xander. Xander. And no, supports don't count. In fact, they make him seem even worse than he already is to me.
FE14 Revelation: Azura. Azura. Azura. Azura. Azura. Azura. Azura. And no, supports don't count. In fact, they make her seem even worse than she already is to me.
And yes, there are now six Xander's and seven Azura's in Fates. The games just got 13 times worse for me now.
FE15: Clive, because he is a bad unit. Really, aside from Gray, I don't really dislike anyone in Echoes, character-wise.

series as a whole: Anna. This one deserves a special mention, because ever since Awakening, she has been nothing but "money, money, money, money, money". It's been getting on my nerves ever since Awakening and it's only gotten worse with every installment since. Worse yet, since she's apparently the franchise mascot now (ugh), I'll have to deal with this money-hungry incarnation of her in probably every game from now on. I was truly relieved to find out she wasn't in Echoes.

Isn't Anna basically a money grubbing troll? I find that interesting. Definitely more fun then the Frederick's or "I AM LOYAL " people, if you ask me.

[DragonFlames]

7 minutes ago, CapnStix said:

Isn't Anna basically a money grubbing troll? I find that interesting. Definitely more fun then the Frederick's or "I AM LOYAL " people, if you ask me.

Frederick at least takes the "I AM LOYAL" shtick to ridiculous levels, making him what is essentially a parody of all the other generic "I AM LOYAL" types. Anna's money fetish is just plain annoying to me.

Edited November 13, 2018 by DragonFlames

[Michelaar]

43 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:

Frederick at least takes the "I AM LOYAL" shtick to ridiculous levels, making him what is essentially a parody of all the other generic "I AM LOYAL" types. Anna's money fetish is just plain annoying to me.

Anna takes money to even ridiculouser levels than Frederick ever dreamed of though?

[Ottservia]

3 hours ago, Emperor Chiam Longblade said:

Response to Xander and Azura ) Honestly I think all the characters in Fates were just boring, even the Awakening lookalikes ( Examples: Laslow and Selena ) they just seem lackluster compared to the great characters we had in Awakening, actually they're not just lackluster they're just straight out DISRESPECTING the Awakening characters, I think FE took a thousand steps back in terms of character development.

I agree with this sentiment(mostly) at least in regards to the awakening trio(with the exception of Laslow btw) honestly I cannot begin to fathom why people say Severa is a “better character” in fates because that implies good person = well written character and that is far far faaaar from the truth and it makes me angry beyond any reasonable measure. Anyway I’d argue selena is worse written in fates and the ONLY reason she works at all in that game is if you already know her story from the previous one. She’s just so one note in fates and while yes she is still the same person at the end of the day, she lacks so much of the nuance that made her(at least to me) one of the best characters in awakening. Meaning that if you’ve ONLY played fates most likely your impression of her is that she’s cliche tsundere #578 and that annoys me. Ugh I’m sorry for the rant and I know I’m preaching to the choir here but I just needed to get that off my chest.

[Farina's Pegasus]

2 hours ago, DragonFlames said:

FE15: Clive, because he is a bad unit. Really, aside from Gray, I don't really dislike anyone in Echoes, character-wise.

Same here. I don't like Clive much as a battle unit or a character, Mathilda's so much better (except for her really low starting HP). The only reason I've used them both is the A support, but even that doesn't do much. 

Gray's the same as my opinion on Faye: I like him, but I get why a lot of people wouldn't. His obsession with Clair isn't cute like Faye's infatuation with Alm, but I still find him entertaining, despite being pretty one-note. 

[Rose482]

23 hours ago, Farina's Pegasus said:

I like Faye, personally- and I'm starting to feel like the only one who does, though I totally get why people wouldn't like her. You bring up a great point in that she never makes it clear why she likes Alm so much, though. I mean, he's a nice guy, but there's no real reason for Faye to latch on to him to the point where she ignores or dismisses other people when they try to approach her. 

I like Faye as well, you aren't alone.

[Strullemia]

Makalov: He's a horrible person whose very existence makes Astrid worse. I always make sure to let him die when I get the chance.

Peri: We've had characters before that don't actually mind killing other people but never before did we have a unit that so easily threatens her own allies and has such a warped view on things. It also doesn't help that just like Makalov she ruins other characters like Xander. Oh and her hair is ugly.

 

[Farina's Pegasus]

9 minutes ago, Rose482 said:

I like Faye as well, you aren't alone.

Good to hear! She was one of my best units in my last file, I classed her as a Mage/Priestess and that worked out well.

[Erureido]

On 11/12/2018 at 1:00 PM, LJwalhout said:

Subaki; You know that person who thinks really highly of himself, talks other people down and when someone points out a flaw they start acting like a crybaby? Subaki is that kind of person in my eyes. Granted I haven't read all of his supports so maybe he is better in a few supports (and if he is I would like to know). But when your first impression on me is that you think highly of yourself and act so condescending to other people I don't want to know more about you. Subaki might be the only fictional character that I hate along with Seymour from ff10.

I don't care for Subaki all that much, but I'll admit there are four Subaki supports I recommend checking out where he doesn't come across as unpleasant.

The first one is his support with Sakura, and I'd argue it's his best support. He does come across as his perfectionist self, but mainly in that sense that he messes up on certain things and it causes him to panic. Sakura calls him out on his behavior several times and explains that she still accepts him even when he makes mistakes despite what he thinks of himself. The A-support between the two characters also reveals how Subaki developed his perfectionist attitude: his parents served the royal Hoshidan family for some time, and thus they put very high expectations on him. It lead to him convincing himself that he needs to be perfect in everything he does. We also learn the backstory about how he and Sakura first met and how he became her retainer: he tripped while landing from his pegasus, which he considered to be a huge embarrassment in front of royalty, but Sakura and Hana found it funny and presented a nice side to Subaki they didn't know prior. She decided to make him one of her retainers following this event.

The second I'd recommend is his support with Hinoka. The supports are mainly about them just reminiscing about their past. Subaki trained her to becoming the Pegasus Knight she is now, and they worked together one time to rescue Sakura trapped in a forest during a storm. Subaki doesn't act like his snobby perfectionist self during it, and you get the sense that him and Hinoka are rather close.

The third I'd recommend is his support with Nyx. The support doesn't delve into their backstories. Subaki introduces Nyx to Hoshidan tea, while Nyx introduces him to coffee. He also tries to bond with her in the first two supports while she comes across as her usual distant self, but she warms up over the course of the supports. You don't see Subaki acting like a perfectionist, and he instead comes across as someone who just wants to get to know someone better.

The fourth Subaki support worth checking out is the ones with Selena, and I'd say it's his second best support. Selena is similar to Subaki in that she also strives for perfection, and when she learns that about him, it lead to some interesting dialogue between the two. The A support is particularly my favorite, because it involves Subaki reaching out to Selena and understanding she tries to be perfect because of the reputation her mother had.

4 hours ago, DragonFlames said:

1.) The shameless wannabe "cool guy" that flirts with anything even resembling a female. As someone who believes that love belongs to only one person at any one time, this archetype is disgusting to me, honestly, especially if it's portrayed in a "haha, that's funny!" kind of way. It doesn't help that most of them tend to come across as (potential) sex offenders. And yet, for whatever reason, this character tends to end up pretty high on popularity lists, which is part of the reason humanity has lost my faith. 
Specific examples include: Gatrie, Sain, Virion, Inigo, Gray, Soleil, Saul, (Heather), Ruke / Luke
Sub-category: Characters that come across as plain creepy thanks to their personalities.
Specific examples: Niles, Gregor, Makalov, Silas

3.) The arrogant asshole that never gets called out on their arrogance or assholery and even if they do, they never actually suffer consequences for it. I don't think I need to elaborate on why.
Specific examples: Innes, Shinon, Subaki, Takumi

Sub-category: The asshole in general that is an asshole for no good reason and never gets called out on it / never suffers consequences for it.
Specific examples: Colm, Takumi

So two things interested me about those points you made in connection with your statement that you like the majority of SoV's cast character-wise aside from Gray: what is your opinion on Jesse and Python from SoV?

Jesse's most defining characteristic is that he is a major flirt. He hits on Celica (and I think Mae is well, though I don't completely remember) when they first meet on her way to stop Grieth, and we also see him flirting with Silque shortly after he rescues her during that Memory Prism of the two characters. When you promote Jesse, he even states, "I think Mila has a crush on me!" Yep, he hits on a goddess, though not directly.

Meanwhile, Python is someone that seems to fit in the asshole category you mentioned there. He also has various moments in the story where he comes across as an asshole (i.e. feeding him the food he doesn't like when he's in a dungeon), and he also has a sharp and cynical tongue when speaking to to others similar to Innes, Shinon, and Takumi (and funny enough, Python happens to be an archer just like them). You don't see very many characters calling out Python for his cynical tongue either.

[Etrurian emperor]

I'm not really disagreeing with the reasoning of people naming Xander and Azura as their least favorites. Their complaints are right but I draw another conclusion from them. 

Xander and Azura aren't idiots or cowards based on their own characters. Its not their fault, its the Fates writing just treating them horrible. I find that more of a reason to rather pity these character than to hate them. They aren't actually brought down by moral failings but by inept writing. And that's just tragic. 

[Rose482]

3 hours ago, Farina's Pegasus said:

Good to hear! She was one of my best units in my last file, I classed her as a Mage/Priestess and that worked out well.

omg I also always make her a mage, she always turns out great for me. 

[Ottservia]

2 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I'm not really disagreeing with the reasoning of people naming Xander and Azura as their least favorites. Their complaints are right but I draw another conclusion from them. 

Xander and Azura aren't idiots or cowards based on their own characters. Its not their fault, its the Fates writing just treating them horrible. I find that more of a reason to rather pity these character than to hate them. They aren't actually brought down by moral failings but by inept writing. And that's just tragic. 

I mean by that logic most characters I dislike should be pitied rather than hated. Hell a lot of the characters people are posting here fall under that category where "it's the fault of the writers not the character". what about peri? because she too is a victim of inconsistent and bad writing so does that mean we should pity her instead because "it's the fault of the writers not the character herself?'. No, The writing of a character is the character so saying "it's the writer's fault" is kind of moot because yeah it kind of is. It is the fault of the writer for writing the character that way. That's kind of what characters are.  Not to say you can't have your own opinions or anything but you're kind of presenting a weak argument here. Now I will grant that xander and azura are kind of a special case because of the drastic differences between their story and support iterations but my point still stands.

Edit: whoops created somewhat of a straw man there my apologies. It should be better now though

Edited November 14, 2018 by Otts486

[Ertrick36]

23 hours ago, Tootsie said:

Roy for gameplay reasons.

Huh, well if we're gonna bring gameplay into this, lemme just bring Ryoma in to have a chat.  Or how about just all the good royals from that game, for that matter?  I hate how the designers basically went "let's make these extremely good units and then throw lackluster counterparts to those units just to make them look good".  The fliers from Shadow Dragon didn't need punching bags to look good, they could just make punching bags out of the enemy.

Conversely, I hate trying to use practically any armor knight/general in the series for obvious reasons.  They could've just nerfed their speed and left everything else intact, but making them all have low movement is like breaking a turtle's legs and then smashing the poor bastard's shell.  A lot of Awakening's 1st gen cast is also annoying to use simply because they aren't Chrom, Robin, or Frederick - pretty much the only units actually worth using seriously apart from maybe the mercs, pegasus knights, and dark mages (or those that can reclass into those - god, Cordelia had such a ridiculous class set).  Donnel especially sucks to use if you don't know how to exploit the AI/map design to get him free grinding sessions.

23 hours ago, DarthR0xas said:

None of the children are likeable, with the possible exception of Soleil. 

It always felt like I was the only person who had something of a soft spot for Soleil, even if I took issue with her harassing Ophelia in weird, creepy ways and awkwardly gawking about how gorgeous she thinks her mom is.

23 hours ago, DarthR0xas said:

FEH: I guess Anna is the worst, with dire need of development beyond "MONEY".

FEW: The lemon-head twins are equally bad.

Heh, I forgot to mention those two games.  Probably because the original casts of those games were so forgettable, and also because I pretty much immediately started clinging to my favorite characters.

I guess my least favorite from Warriors would be... the mother, simply because she's basically just an object of affection for the twins and nothing more.  In Heroes, Alfonse was so forgettable to me that I almost didn't even remember his name; I literally don't remember what his personality was like or if he even had personality.  So those are the characters I'll list.

I actually like the Anna's in those games, ironically because I think they did more to develop her beyond simple greed than the last two games that had her did.  Particularly in Warriors, but at least in Heroes Anna's primary occupation wasn't just merchant this time.  I think the flanderization of her merchant side in Awakening was the worst thing that happened to her.

Also, bear in mind I've never even gotten into Book 2 of Heroes.  So literally the only characters I'm familiar with from that game are the siblings, "the summoner", Anna, and that doofy owl.  So I only know, like, maybe a quarter or a sixth of that game's whole cast.  But then again, these spinoffs don't really count for much in the storytelling/character department, do they?

[Ottservia]

On 11/12/2018 at 5:37 PM, Thane said:

Disregarding Fates as many of them are the lowest hanging fruits and in a league of their own, I'm going to say Alm.

His role in the story is downright detrimental and seems to work against the themes that it wanted to convey. I know plenty of people disagree with this, but I simply cannot get over that this is the game that tried to include a theme of classism and then use Alm as some kind of example of it being wrong when he gets weapons only he can use because of his special blood, and he can get past an invisible wall that literally separates kings from peasants - without it, the Deliverance would've died beneath Rigel Castle, stuck between the gate and the wall until they starved. Alm kind of proves the villains right in that you are indeed born special. Sure, Alm grew up as a normal kid, but at the end of the day it is his special blood that separates him from the rabble; Tobin isn't the main character for a reason. 

He never faces any setbacks or defeats that would force him to change his way of thinking or cause him to change as a person. Alm starts as the complete package and finishes as the complete package. This would've been less frustrating if he had had an interesting personality, but he doesn't. He's a kind soul and a good fighter in no need of change, with no interesting character dynamics or relationships.

You'd think they'd try to make his relationship with Celica more intriguing, but we get one prologue scene of them cementing the fact that yupp, they've got special birthmarks and are thus connected and then Celica has to leave for seven years. They then have a painfully forced fight and...why am I supposed to care about these two's relationship, again? To make matters even worse, Alm's perfection detracts from Celica's importance to the overall plot. Alm is the one who pushes Rigel out, defeats Rudolf, saves Celica and kills Duma, whereas Celica effectively deals with the sidequests. 

In a game all about duality, I would've thought it vital to balance Alm and Celica's roles in terms of importance and representation, but whereas Alm soldiers on without ever being wrong or challenged, Celica is manipulated, gets captured, is forced to apologize to Alm for being wrong and overall has a lack of impact on the plot. We can see Alm influencing her with his way of seeing the world, and her accepting it, but we never see the opposite happen. 

A part of the problem with Alm's utter domination of Rigel and the lack of obstacle he faces can be attributed to the horrendous use of the worldbuilding the game itself establishes. Zofia is one of the most messed up nations in the series, having suffered famines, droughts, bandit raids, a civil war, an occupation, and the living dead ravaging the land. It also has a population that is notorious for being lazy, weak, and corrupt...yet this is never really shown in the war. There is no mention of  this once the group begins pushing into Rigel. The mentions of morale, tactics, supplies, lack of training, unknown and harsh terrain, etc. get lip service at best and no mention at worst. However, while this is not directly Alm's fault, it does negatively impact his character, just like how the nonsensical plot curse of Fates makes Azura come across as a complete idiot.

Sure, there are many other characters who one could argue are worse, even discounting Fates. Nergal is the least efficient villain in the series who keeps letting people go and can't even keep a tortured man restrained in his own seat of power, everyone in Magvel either wants to be Ephraim or sleep with him, and Faye's inclusion in Echoes is as confusing as her character is appalling. However, I don't think anyone quite reaches Alm's level where he just takes his own game and breaks it upon his knee.

pretty much sums up my thoughts on the guy. Honestly thank for finally being able to put into words what i've been thinking for a while but could never truly fully articulate. 

[Ertrick36]

Forgot to respond to other things/didn't want to clutter one post.

14 hours ago, Emperor Chiam Longblade said:

( Response to Xander and Azura ) Honestly I think all the characters in Fates were just boring, even the Awakening lookalikes ( Examples: Laslow and Selena ) they just seem lackluster compared to the great characters we had in Awakening, actually they're not just lackluster they're just straight out DISRESPECTING the Awakening characters, I think FE took a thousand steps back in terms of character development.

 ( Response to Sylvia ) I personally didn't play FE4 as much as I played other games in the series but I can see why you don't like her, she really just creeped me out during my playthrough in FE4.

( Response to Camus ) Yeah I just don't like him don't ask me why its complicated

( Response to Nomah ) RESPECT YO ELDERS YOU DWEEB 

Lame jokes aside I get why you dislike his character, he's just an old man, he just looks old and frail. I honestly feel bad for him.

( Response to Kris ) At least he's better than Corrin.... 

( Response to Severa and Validar ) I won't respond to the Severa part because I don't want to give you my bias filled response. ( I'll give you my reasoning of liking her if you really are curious ). Validar is probably one of the lamest villains in Fire Emblem, If you grinded like hell before the fight it shouldn't be that hard.

- I don't feel that way for all the characters, I think there were a number of them that were great.  Some of them are even my absolute favorite characters in the series.

- I wouldn't have as much of a problem with her if she was 18 or older.  Or heck, even her being 16 would've been better, because at least that's the typical standard for allowing teens to give consent.  Though then again, I still am not a fan of love triangles; I don't know, maybe I'm cliche and just like straightforward love stories without all that stupid teenage drama.

- I feel like I'd be on this site all day for the rest of my life if I went in-depth about the things I don't like about him, and half of it would be digging myself out of pits set up by people who might try to justify him to me.  In the end, I just don't like it when supposedly heroic people die and make everyone around them more miserable because they were stuck in their ways, unless the narrative leaves the interpretation of those actions open or implies they were foolish.

- It doesn't help that I'm creeped out by him wanting backrubs from Celica.  

- I would've put Corrin, but I already slapped Xander and Azura onto the Fates list and I really didn't want to make it significantly bigger than the others.

- I know I can be quick to criticize other folks' critiques - negative or positive - but I do like hearing positive opinions on characters that I don't necessarily share.  With pretty much every character besides probably Oboro and a few select others, I have not seen everything they have to offer and thus am always missing something that others see in them.

 

@Thane I feel like I've always had a hard time describing to people why I have issues with Alm, which is exacerbated by the fact that so many people seem to say he's their favorite lord or one of their favorite characters.  But you pretty much lined out how I felt about it, and also my issues with Azura.

Speaking of, I know some people tend to make a distinction between story and supports, but I don't.  The supports are meant to compliment the story - to make you care deeper about the characters as you progress through the story.  This mostly applies to the characters who make frequent appearances in the story, like Xander and Azura.  Yet the supports are the only good element of the plot; it's like if you had a unit with excellent skill and luck, but terrible everything else, it just can't work out.

Not only that, but I feel any failings of the writing in a game should fall on the shoulders of the entire writing team; if characters' personalities were inconsistent in the plot and supports, all the writers should've done better to maintain communication instead of isolating themselves to work on their little pieces.  Even one who writes high quality stuff is still a terrible writer if they don't bring their crap to the eyes of others in the writing team or an editor before officially publishing it.

So yeah, I just don't see story!Xander and supports!Xander (or Azura's counterparts), I only see Xander and Azura.  It also doesn't help that their actions cause the pain, suffering, and even deaths of characters I actually really like, especially since the narrative then writes all that off as just an "oh well, too bad" kind of deal in the end.  Yeah, too bad I went and killed some of my favorite characters in the fecking game only because Azura couldn't get the idea to simply say "maybe there's another way".

[Ottservia]

51 minutes ago, Ertrick36 said:

know I can be quick to criticize other folks' critiques - negative or positive - but I do like hearing positive opinions on characters that I don't necessarily share.  With pretty much every character besides probably Oboro and a few select others, I have not seen everything they have to offer and thus am always missing something that others see in them.

If that’s the case(I know I’m not the one who offered but I love Severa too much so sorry) 

I’mma just leave this here and this

Edited November 14, 2018 by Otts486

[Geenoble]

From a gameplay perspective? I've never really liked armor knights, Oswin is the only one i really use, so my least favourite is the worst of them. Gwendolyn is a pain to train and is very much not worth it.

from a story perspective? Discounting 90% of the fates cast it would be fe10 Astrid. She's cool in fe9 but in fe10 she just becomes "Makalov is cool, you just have to wait for him to prove himself." Jesus the dawn brigade are better characters then her.

[DragonFlames]

19 hours ago, Michelaar said:

Anna takes money to even ridiculouser levels than Frederick ever dreamed of though?

But Frederick manages to be funny while doing it, while Anna doesn't.

17 hours ago, Rose482 said:

I like Faye as well, you aren't alone.

Thirded (is that even a thing?)

16 hours ago, Erureido said:

So two things interested me about those points you made in connection with your statement that you like the majority of SoV's cast character-wise aside from Gray: what is your opinion on Jesse and Python from SoV?

Jesse's most defining characteristic is that he is a major flirt. He hits on Celica (and I think Mae is well, though I don't completely remember) when they first meet on her way to stop Grieth, and we also see him flirting with Silque shortly after he rescues her during that Memory Prism of the two characters. When you promote Jesse, he even states, "I think Mila has a crush on me!" Yep, he hits on a goddess, though not directly.

Meanwhile, Python is someone that seems to fit in the asshole category you mentioned there. He also has various moments in the story where he comes across as an asshole (i.e. feeding him the food he doesn't like when he's in a dungeon), and he also has a sharp and cynical tongue when speaking to to others similar to Innes, Shinon, and Takumi (and funny enough, Python happens to be an archer just like them). You don't see very many characters calling out Python for his cynical tongue either.

You're right, I actually forgot Jesse existed for a moment there. I usually just recruit him and then he sort of fades away. It might be because he's a major flirt that I forget he even exists. The thing with Gray is that he's present in the main story line, while Jesse isn't. Also, Gray's support with Clair in conjunction with his ending feels wrong to me. 

About Python: True, he is cynical and snarky, but, like Frederick, he manages to be entertaining about it. Whereas Innes and Takumi come across as just plain mean and arrogant (especially Takumi, who thinks it's a privilege to call him by name), Python never goes into full Jerkass mode. At least not that I remember off the top of my head, as, like Jesse, Python is another character I tend to largely forget about after I recruit him, mostly because he's a terrible unit, as well.  I will dig into it and maybe that will change my opinion of him. But thank you for pointing that one out to me. Don't want to seem too hypocritical, now do I?

Edited November 14, 2018 by DragonFlames

[Etrurian emperor]

13 hours ago, Otts486 said:

I mean by that logic most characters I dislike should be pitied rather than hated. Hell a lot of the characters people are posting here fall under that category where "it's the fault of the writers not the character". what about peri? because she too is a victim of inconsistent and bad writing so does that mean we should pity her instead because "it's the fault of the writers not the character herself?'. No, The writing of a character is the character so saying "it's the writer's fault" is kind of moot because yeah it kind of is. It is the fault of the writer for writing the character that way. That's kind of what characters are.  Not to say you can't have your own opinions or anything but you're kind of presenting a weak argument here. Now I will grant that xander and azura are kind of a special case because of the drastic differences between their story and support iterations but my point still stands.

Edit: whoops created somewhat of a straw man there my apologies. It should be better now though

I think the writers intent and their success(or lack thereof) of implementing their intent plays a big factor in what I was saying.

Peri is a bad character but I don't think her awful traits are a mistake in the sense that the writers failed to make her come off as they wished. She really is a serial killer and was always supposed to be. Her design origins likely stem from IS noting Henry's popularity and responding to that with an even more extreme Henry who's also a waifu. Her awful behavior is a calculated outcome from this design philosophy.

Takumi and Severa have both been mentioned her but the dislikable traits from either characters are not mistakes. They are tsunderes and them lashing out disproportionately is just them doing what tsundere's have always done. Takumi and Severa lash out exactly as intended and its up to the audience to decide whether their emotional baggage justify their outbursts. I don't like tsunderes and often don't think their baggage justify their outbursts, but lots of people adore tsundere's for the same reasons I can't stand them.

But Azura and Xander are different. The writers had a very clear idea about what these characters should be. They should be noble and competent, and the plot insists that they are. That they are noble and competent is as clearly defined as Takumi and Severa being emotionally vulnerable or Peri having a habit of slaughtering people. That so many fans do not think Azura or Xander are noble or competent means that the plot has failed to communicate this. Fates wants us to think Azura and Corrin are in the right but many fans think they behave like idiots. This is a disconnect that stems from the failure of the writing department. Xander is the typical Camus doing the typical Camus routine but that so many people hold this against him so strongly means the writers failed at accurately having Xander act like a Camus. And this gets all the more notably because these character improve by leaps and bounds when Fates plot isn't dragging them through the mud. Most people agree support Xander is great when he doesn't need to be chained to Garon and Azura is a pretty sympathetic introvert when she is allowed to be something other than an exposition bot.

Both Xander and Azura have their qualities but are stifled by the Fates writing in ways that the writers clearly never intended. The things held against them are things the writers never intended but are present because of their failure. I think this is quite different than Peri being designed to be a serial killer, or Shinon having always meant to be an asshole, and that the fans can make their judgement based on those ''successful'' depictions.

[Slumber]

God, just comparing Henry to Peri makes me hate Peri more.

If they were just trying to make another Henry, they so missed the mark on what made Henry goofy and fun. From what we saw, Henry never directed his love of blood towards innocent people, which meant it was much easier to how "I'm just a goofball who likes blood!" shtick at face value without having to think twice about what that means. 

Edited November 14, 2018 by Slumber

[Etrurian emperor]

29 minutes ago, Slumber said:

God, just comparing Henry to Peri makes me hate Peri more.

If they were just trying to make another Henry, they so missed the mark on what made Henry goofy and fun. From what we saw, Henry never directed his love of blood towards innocent people, which meant it was much easier to how "I'm just a goofball who likes blood!" shtick at face value without having to think twice about what that means. 

I always thought Kiragi was a much better Henry than Peri. Kiragi is a little spsycho too but also cheery and lovable like Henry.