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Least Favorite FE Character?


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I agree that there's too many supports in Awakening and Fates and that there is a lot of repetition of gimmicks and the like as a result, but removing some of it wouldn't magically improve the writing. Fates' writing is horrible because almost every single thing that could have gone wrong went wrong, with mind-boggling decisions that shouldn't have made it past the idea phase being implemented.

That said, I don't agree that the GBA writing was a series benchmark by any means. I have serious issues with not only the main plots but also find the casts of Binding Blade and especially Blazing Blade to be not all there. Sacred Stones, which does have a much more appealing cast and especially main villain, has two pieces of cardboard as its protagonists.

There are many contributing factors to why I feel this way, but I think one of the more serious offenses is Binding Blade's main story and how shockingly poorly its story is told. Practically everything gets told to Roy through exposition, and he as a protagonist never really gets a chance to stand out as he's never contrasted with other interesting characters. Half the main story interactions seem to be Merlinus telling Roy to do A, with Roy then giving a reason why they should do B, which is the exact opposite, and then occasionally someone chimes in to say how impressed they are by his leadership skills. Perhaps my memory is a little foggy; it's almost a year since I played the game now. However, it's also my least favorite Fire Emblm game, and I've got no desire to revisit it. 

I consider Blazing Blade to have the worst story in the series barring Fates, though the main problem lies in the horrible villains rather than the playable cast, but even there there were some really odd decisions made. For example, why are there three playable little sisters looking for three different playable older brothers? Why did they turn Bartre into a cartoony shadow of his Binding Blade self? Why is the literal mass murderer on our team? Why did they cut out Lyn's vengeance subplot and diverted it to the second half of an A support, giving her no time to react to the news that her quest for revenge had already been taken from her? And so on.

 

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26 minutes ago, Thane said:

There are many contributing factors to why I feel this way, but I think one of the more serious offenses is Binding Blade's main story and how shockingly poorly its story is told. Practically everything gets told to Roy through exposition, and he as a protagonist never really gets a chance to stand out as he's never contrasted with other interesting characters. Half the main story interactions seem to be Merlinus telling Roy to do A, with Roy then giving a reason why they should do B, which is the exact opposite, and then occasionally someone chimes in to say how impressed they are by his leadership skills.

That's definitely my biggest problem with Binding Blade. The story is there but its told in an incredibly archaic way. Its shockingly similar to the bare bones Shadow Dragon style except Malledus isn't constantly in the wrong like Merlinus is. I think the story would really benefited if it took a page out of Echoes book by having the much more colorful side characters be able to have their say on what is happening. 

That said I do think the GBA games pretty naturally fall into second place after the Tellius series. Its not as archaic and bare bones as Archenea, its not held back by technology like Jugdral, its not painfully rushed and cluttered like Awakening and its not the trainwreck of Fates either. With the GBA games the world's are well defined, the characters are more nuanced, things of note are usually happening and aside from Binding Blade the cutscenes have fairly good character dynamics. I don't even think the mistakes are all that damning. Nergal might have flaws but in contrast to the Fates villains he also has strengths, Binding Blade is told in an archaic way but the story is there and the bad world building of Sacred Stones is countered with strong writing for the characters. 

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27 minutes ago, Thane said:

 

I agree that there's too many supports in Awakening and Fates and that there is a lot of repetition of gimmicks and the like as a result, but removing some of it wouldn't magically improve the writing. Fates' writing is horrible because almost every single thing that could have gone wrong went wrong, with mind-boggling decisions that shouldn't have made it past the idea phase being implemented

 

This. It’s not a matter of quantity it’s a matter of quality. It does not matter how many supports they write so long as it’s of quality the quantity should not matter. To me this shows most prominently in SoV where there are a very limited number supports so you’d expect them to be good because the writers have less supports to write. Nope! Out of the 3 and a half games I’ve played SoV probably has some of the most boring supports I’ve ever read. Honestly if it weren’t for the voice acting these supports would put me to sleep faster than IS can make another Camilla alt. They’re not deep or funny or really at all entertaining. We hardly learn anything new about these characters during them. Makes me wonder why the supports are here at all. That’s not to say there aren’t some diamonds in the rough but those are soooo few and far between. I mean I get the idea behind the argument but the validity and soundness of it is vague at best.

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33 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

That said I do think the GBA games pretty naturally fall into second place after the Tellius series.

I haven't played Jugdral so I can't comment. I do wonder if you can count the GBA games as one entity though; the aesthetics and general structure are very similar but the strengths and weaknesses of the writing differ greatly between the installments. For example, Hector and Eliwood share a strong bromance but fight against one of the most pathetic villains in the series, whereas Ephraim and Eirika have to be entirely carried by Lyon. It's why I generally dislike the term "Fateswakening" because even though I understand why it's used since the two games share a similar structure in terms of supports and the like, I think the writing quality is too far apart. 

I also feel like there's a hint of awkwardness and staleness in the dialogue of Blazing Blade in particular, but that's delving into even murkier territory that's even more difficult to explain. I just can't take things like The Black Fang, Jaffar, Nino's subplot, or quotes like "Legault...Ah! You...You're the Hurricane? Second in ability to none but the Four Fangs?!" seriously.

Sacred Stones has some really sick boss conversations tho.

27 minutes ago, Otts486 said:

SoV probably has some of the most boring supports I’ve ever read.

I do think the presentation helps a lot, but yes, I don't think the supports are Echoes' strongest point either. It goes beyond Faye, too, with supports like Tobin and Kliff which doesn't amount to much, or Clair and Gray which is kind of uncomfortable. I do wonder if the voice acting made them cut down on the supports since that shit's expensive, but if nothing else Echoes kind of proves fewer supports does not necessarily equal better writing quality.

Echoes does have Rise of the Deliverance though, which has some of the best writing in the series, and it did implement more supports (which were clearly done before the game released so they had no business being locked behind a paywall) that were also some of the series' best and really made good use of Echoes' stellar presentation. 

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2 hours ago, Thane said:

I haven't played Jugdral so I can't comment. I do wonder if you can count the GBA games as one entity though; the aesthetics and general structure are very similar but the strengths and weaknesses of the writing differ greatly between the installments. For example, Hector and Eliwood share a strong bromance but fight against one of the most pathetic villains in the series, whereas Ephraim and Eirika have to be entirely carried by Lyon. It's why I generally dislike the term "Fateswakening" because even though I understand why it's used since the two games share a similar structure in terms of supports and the like, I think the writing quality is too far apart. 

I also feel like there's a hint of awkwardness and staleness in the dialogue of Blazing Blade in particular, but that's delving into even murkier territory that's even more difficult to explain. I just can't take things like The Black Fang, Jaffar, Nino's subplot, or quotes like "Legault...Ah! You...You're the Hurricane? Second in ability to none but the Four Fangs?!" seriously.

I do recall Blazing blade's dialogue not entirely clicking with me when I played it an an older age even if I still liked the character dynamic and general plot. I sometimes found it a bit juvenile as if they expected the audience to be younger, even if that would be weird for a game with lots of death, war and some rape references. 

I at least count the Elibe games as one entity because that's what they are. I always thought of Sacred Stones as a side game doing its own little thing in the corner, but as a GBA game I naturally associate it with the other ones, though mechanically its actually pretty similar to Echoes due to having two lords and a world map.  

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22 hours ago, Thane said:

I agree that there's too many supports in Awakening and Fates and that there is a lot of repetition of gimmicks and the like as a result, but removing some of it wouldn't magically improve the writing. Fates' writing is horrible because almost every single thing that could have gone wrong went wrong, with mind-boggling decisions that shouldn't have made it past the idea phase being implemented.

That said, I don't agree that the GBA writing was a series benchmark by any means. I have serious issues with not only the main plots but also find the casts of Binding Blade and especially Blazing Blade to be not all there. Sacred Stones, which does have a much more appealing cast and especially main villain, has two pieces of cardboard as its protagonists.

There are many contributing factors to why I feel this way, but I think one of the more serious offenses is Binding Blade's main story and how shockingly poorly its story is told. Practically everything gets told to Roy through exposition, and he as a protagonist never really gets a chance to stand out as he's never contrasted with other interesting characters. Half the main story interactions seem to be Merlinus telling Roy to do A, with Roy then giving a reason why they should do B, which is the exact opposite, and then occasionally someone chimes in to say how impressed they are by his leadership skills. Perhaps my memory is a little foggy; it's almost a year since I played the game now. However, it's also my least favorite Fire Emblm game, and I've got no desire to revisit it. 

I consider Blazing Blade to have the worst story in the series barring Fates, though the main problem lies in the horrible villains rather than the playable cast, but even there there were some really odd decisions made. For example, why are there three playable little sisters looking for three different playable older brothers? Why did they turn Bartre into a cartoony shadow of his Binding Blade self? Why is the literal mass murderer on our team? Why did they cut out Lyn's vengeance subplot and diverted it to the second half of an A support, giving her no time to react to the news that her quest for revenge had already been taken from her? And so on.

 

No it wouldn't. But if you have fewer supports then it's easier to notice the good supports then when every character has a ton from which the majority is bad. And it's true that if many people wanted to enjoy the writing major changes should be made since there are just many more factors at play in writing a good story and if I was asked to rewrite the characters not only support quantity would be changed (but I would probably alter the story so much that some people would also hate it). Also gimmick characters work better in my eyes if they have fewer supports.

Funny that you bring up the GBA games. I might have sounded as someone who thinks that modern Fire Emblem stories and characters suck and Kaga & GBA Fire emblem has amazing writing, but I actually don't think so. The only Fire Emblem stories I really enjoy (not parts of it but the majority) are FE4 & FE5 and even those games have stupid moments, like how Manfroy just teleports before Deirdre, kidnaps her, teleports her and himself away and teleports the amnesiac Deirdre right near a place where Arvis can find him after wiping her memory. Or how Lewyn has more dialogue then the main character in gen2. But aside from those things and some other minor things I like the story because while it does some dumb things at times it does feel like something I can relate to and I really felt sad at the end of gen1. Can't talk about fe5 because I haven't finished it yet (stupid ballistas) but it probably also isn't flawless (nothing is).

GBA on the other hand I only like small parts (but I also like small parts of the Star Wars prequels so that doesn't mean I like the majority). fe6 I dislike the least because the story isn't important and gives me a good enough excuse to go on a adventure with fun maps (in my opinion). I also like how you recruit people from the entire continent who all have there own reason for fighting and not 'Well, my boss asked me to accompany you'. Overall, not good. But it doesn't give me the feeling that the story is really important so I don't mind.

Fe7 & fe8 have opposite problems. Fe7 follows 2 likable protagonists who have a important role in the story and one forgettable protagonist who feels forced in a story that contradicts itself all the time. Fe8 has a sort of functionting story with 2 boring protagonists. Support quality in my opinion is at it's best about as good as some of the better fateswakening supports and at it's worst filler. 

Haven't played tellius but from what I've read, I actually don't like most supports. Maybe the story is better but I don't think it will be anything groundbreaking.

DS games don't care about there characters which I don't mind actually.

Fe15 is a story I like but not as much as Judgral since it, just like fe7, contradicts itself. But not in story events, but in story-themes.

When I criticize fe13 & fe14 and talk about how other fe games did things better I often don't talk about how those stories are good or how I liked them but more on how they did things in a way that I consider better. And to be honest I actually don't really care all that much about writing in these games. Yes it can help having a better first-time playing experience which is important, but it should never be the focus (and I just skip the story on replays). The most important thing is that the game is enjoyable. Fe12 & Fe6 have some bad writing but the games are fun to play and have some charming writing at times and that is actually enough for me. 

Also sorry that I used Fateswakening at times. But the reasons why I dislike the characterization in those games is similar.

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13 hours ago, LJwalhout said:

Also gimmick characters work better in my eyes if they have fewer supports.

I can see this but I think it goes beyond supports as well. In Awakening in particular many characters loudly proclaim their gimmick in glittering spaces, for example. If you supported Gaius with Chrom, Maribelle, Cordelia, and Cherche, you'd never know he had a candy gimmick; that comes from other supports and things like the glittering spaces and his critical lines. 

And fewer supports does not make me like Farina any more. That girl is a walking gimmick that also makes her look like an asshole.

13 hours ago, LJwalhout said:

Overall, not good. But it doesn't give me the feeling that the story is really important so I don't mind.

You're definitely entitled to your opinion and I can see why you'd like Binding Blade. To me it was hard to care about the story though since it felt like it was just Roy and Merlinus' personal crusade; all the other playable characters disappeared, even Lilina. I also couldn't stand the gameplay but that's neither here nor there; I mean I like Awakening and I know a lot of people can't stand the gameplay there.

13 hours ago, LJwalhout said:

Haven't played tellius but from what I've read, I actually don't like most supports. Maybe the story is better but I don't think it will be anything groundbreaking.

I think Radiant Dawn has the best story of the games I've played, though again that excludes Jugdral. It's overambitious and has to sacrifice a few things to fit everything it wants to tell into one package, but what's good works really well. It really utilizes the worldbuilding and relationships established in Path of Radiance and delivers a satisfying narrative. The Laguz  royals and Sanaki are some of my very favorite characters in the series. 

13 hours ago, LJwalhout said:

Also sorry that I used Fateswakening at times.

It's nothing to apologize for, I understand why the term is used since the structure and even aesthetics of Awakning and Fates are similar in many regards. It just so happens that I don't really like my favorite game in the series being lumped together with a game like Fates. (This term is worse in Heroes though).

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With Valentia, I think the writing of the supports could have improved if they had supports take place at base instead of on the battlefield like what PoR, Mystery, Awakening and Fates did. On the battlefield, there's not really room to sculpt out what characters are doing and they can't do stuff like help with chores, relax around the area, etc. (at least, not without their support partner calling them out like Forde painting). At base, you can choose from more settings for supports to take place, including some unseen battle, a shopping trip, cooking, etc.

Also, my least favorite character is Shinon. I find it bizarre they try to make him this teacher Rolf considers a role model yet have him racist against laguz for no known reason and don't bother explaining why or softening this hatred a good amount in the end. Like, sure, have a few teammates that hate the lord, but at least give reason to their negative character traits like Soren's own racism did.

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2 hours ago, Thane said:

It's nothing to apologize for, I understand why the term is used since the structure and even aesthetics of Awakning and Fates are similar in many regards. It just so happens that I don't really like my favorite game in the series being lumped together with a game like Fates. (This term is worse in Heroes though).

Well, that's the first time I've heard of someone liking Awakening the most. Whenever I see people mention FE13, all they seem to talk about is how broken and unbalanced it is- which is quite true, but even without DLC, Awakening has so much content and replayability that it can keep anyone busy for hundreds of hours. I don't think FE13 gets enough credit for that. 

Then again, playing Awakening was a huge part of my life from 2013-15, so I may be a bit blinded by nostalgia.

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Tharja, easily. She's a terrible person with no redeeming factors whatsoever. People like to complain about other dislikeable characters like Severa, but at least she learns to be a better person through supports. Tharja not only never grows as a character, she is rewarded in every support for her despicable behavior. 

On top of all that, she's an abusive mother who made Noire into an anorexic. All in all, the most moral action is to kill Tharja, not recruit her.

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26 minutes ago, Farina's Pegasus said:

Well, that's the first time I've heard of someone liking Awakening the most. Whenever I see people mention FE13, all they seem to talk about is how broken and unbalanced it is- which is quite true, but even without DLC, Awakening has so much content and replayability that it can keep anyone busy for hundreds of hours. I don't think FE13 gets enough credit for that. 

Then again, playing Awakening was a huge part of my life from 2013-15, so I may be a bit blinded by nostalgia.

I think awakening in general gets more flak then it deserves. When it comes to any kind of extreme concensus there is always two sides. One side who blindly love a thing who see nothing but merit in the media consumed. Then the other side who is the exact opposite and see nothing but flaws in the thing. Both sides tend to overemphasize their arguments and completely belittle the other. Critique in this case gets muddled and cloudy cause both sides are always at each other’s throats. Leaving those in the middle(like you or I) just caught in the crossfire. I mean I love awakening but that doesn’t mean I’m blind to its faults. It’s just to me personally the pros outweigh the cons. Critique should always be fair, balanced, and as unbiased as possible acknowledging both the merits and shortcomings of the thing being critiqued. Give credit where it’s due and call out shortcomings when you see them. I don’t know if I’ve explained this as well as I could have but oh well.

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20 minutes ago, Joe Mirakian said:

Tharja, easily. She's a terrible person with no redeeming factors whatsoever. People like to complain about other dislikeable characters like Severa, but at least she learns to be a better person through supports. Tharja not only never grows as a character, she is rewarded in every support for her despicable behavior. 

On top of all that, she's an abusive mother who made Noire into an anorexic. All in all, the most moral action is to kill Tharja, not recruit her.

That's what I thought and did in my second playthrough, I just killed her. I hated her "personality" and supports made it worse!

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2 minutes ago, Otts486 said:

I think awakening in general gets more flak then it deserves. When it comes to any kind of extreme concensus there is always two sides. One side who blindly love a thing who see nothing but merit in the media consumed. Then the other side who is the exact opposite and see nothing but flaws in the thing. Both sides tend to overemphasize their arguments and completely belittle the other. Critique in this case gets muddled and cloudy cause both sides are always at each other’s throats. Leaving those in the middle(like you or I) just caught in the crossfire. I mean I love awakening but that doesn’t mean I’m blind to its faults. It’s just to me personally the pros outweigh the cons. I don’t know if I’ve explained this as well as I could have but oh well.

No, I get what you're saying, and I totally agree. From the brief month I've spent on these forums, it seems like there's quite a bit of polarizing opinions of the FE games, stories and characters. Frankly, I think that people being unable to view things in shades of grey, rather than black-or-white-"this is good"-"this is bad' is an immature mindset, since one of the whole points of becoming an adult is learning that the world doesn't run on absolutes, and things are often more complicated than we think at first glance.

In my opinion, there's no such thing as a truly bad FE game. My least favorite of the series, Revelations, may have an incredibly underwhelming plot, annoying maps and an antagonist who is arguably the weakest in the series, but it still has great music, balanced gameplay and the benefit of playing Fates without the version differences. Maybe I'm just easily satisfied, or I find it easier than most people to overlook flaws in things I enjoy, but I don't see why that should be called a bad thing. 

I suppose I'm getting a bit off topic, but, yeah. That's my thoughts. Don't feel bad for enjoying something that someone else doesn't, or vice versa. 

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41 minutes ago, Farina's Pegasus said:

In my opinion, there's no such thing as a truly bad FE game.

You know, I'm in agreement with that for the most part, every title has things it does better and worse when compared to others.

Doesn't mean that there aren't things I really dislike. Like Anankos. I've already done a rant on why he's the worst villain, but I think the words "crazed, less interesting Medeus" should be a succinct description of Anankos. Yep, not even Peri's as bad imo.

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On 18-11-2018 at 5:42 PM, Farina's Pegasus said:

Then again, playing Awakening was a huge part of my life from 2013-15, so I may be a bit blinded by nostalgia.

Same here  (from 2015-17) but I think that I shouldn't overlook the flaws that these games have. That also doesn't mean that you should ignore the things that you think it does right and how some of the things that you dislike could be things that other people love and vice versa. 

 

On 18-11-2018 at 6:02 PM, Otts486 said:

I think awakening in general gets more flak then it deserves. When it comes to any kind of extreme concensus there is always two sides. One side who blindly love a thing who see nothing but merit in the media consumed. Then the other side who is the exact opposite and see nothing but flaws in the thing. Both sides tend to overemphasize their arguments and completely belittle the other. Critique in this case gets muddled and cloudy cause both sides are always at each other’s throats. Leaving those in the middle(like you or I) just caught in the crossfire. I mean I love awakening but that doesn’t mean I’m blind to its faults. It’s just to me personally the pros outweigh the cons. Critique should always be fair, balanced, and as unbiased as possible acknowledging both the merits and shortcomings of the thing being critiqued. Give credit where it’s due and call out shortcomings when you see them. I don’t know if I’ve explained this as well as I could have but oh well.

I agree that some people quickly become judgemental towards this game. That's the reason I wrote that long post to show that I'm also open to criticism to the games I like more and acknowledge that they have flaws (seriously I hate it when characters can teleport). I actually think that awakenings isn't much worse then the story of Fe7 and better then Fe8 (sorry, but there isn't a single moment in the game that I felt invested even on my first playthrough). There are some good moments like chapter 10 and how stupid it might sound, the ending gave me a moral boost at a time that I needed it (still stupid, but the feelings were there). Also there are quite a few supports that I really like and while I only have a strong connection to one character, I still enjoy a lot of the cast. But I also think that Awakening has quite a lot of flaws in it's writing and characterization that could be handled better in the future. What also makes me very frustrated about fe13 is that a lot of the writing problems that it had became worse in fates and still raise there ugly head in sov.

Whenever I complain about something in Awakening, or Fates or any other Fire Emblem game it's not because I hate those games, but because I love Fire Emblem and want it to be good.

Also I've realized that I really dislike Niles because he's basically that one guy who constantly makes Sex jokes and giggles when he says something vulgar. He's also dick because he wants people to realize how miserable they actually are. Just because you are miserable doesn't mean that you should make other people feel miserable. Now I wouldn't mind this less if supports didn't work the work they do in Fates. Because of how Supports work in this games you see Niles act like a dick in C & B, be sorta nice in A and marry the girl (or guy) in S. Now I never had a relationship myself and never talk about it with other people but I don't think that that's how people fall in love with each other and even when you didn't like someone in the beginning but slowly started to like him/her I think that a lot of time would have passed. I can suspend my disbelief that when people are nice to each other over the span of a few conversations that they can fall in love. I mean, it's war, people die every day so maybe they don't spend a lot of time thinking about it and just follow there heart feelings. But being a douchebag for the most part and being nice after that? No. It's like if Lifis could marry in Thracia 776.

 

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8 hours ago, Joe Mirakian said:

On top of all that, she's an abusive mother who made Noire into an anorexic. All in all, the most moral action is to kill Tharja, not recruit her.

Honestly I would kill Tharja instead of recruiting her, but I want her daughter Noire

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Not necessarily my least favourite but can someone explain to me how Lucina got so popular?? I also find Florina's trait of being afraid of men kind of annoying initially.

I also don't mind the characters with questionable to no morals like Tharja, Peri and Henry. I actually think it makes the game more 'realistic' in the sense that during a war it would be silly to assume that everyone that's fighting with you are all morally sound. My only problem with them is when they end up affecting the characterization of others (Peri and Xander as the most famous example).

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23 minutes ago, Emperor Chiam Longblade said:

I guess both but playable units is preferred

@zuibangde  (Response to Lucina) If I remember correctly she was in the first trailer so she could have been popular because she was one of the first characters revealed (I really don't know either)

(Florina) I don't really mind her fear of men 

(Tharja) She's just creepy, I just despise her for that reason

(Peri) She creeps me the fuck out

(Henry) Its weird, I like Henry but I don't, I really don't know how to feel about him 

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1 hour ago, zuibangde said:

 

Not necessarily my least favourite but can someone explain to me how Lucina got so popular?? I also find Florina's trait of being afraid of men kind of annoying initially.

 

Short and slightly sarcastic answer: angst

long and serious answer:

While I can’t speak for everyone, I personally like Lucina simply because I sympathize with her. She’s not my favorite awakening girl(I’ll give you a guess on who that is hint: I like twintails) but I find her to be pretty well written and nuanced. Possibly the most interesting aspect to Lucina to me is how oblivious? Naive maybe? She is. I mean she grew up only knowing war so she’s very socially oblivious to other people and has a distinct misunderstanding for “normal girl” things like fashion and childhood games which contrasts with her more serious attitude giving her depth and nuance. Also you can really tell how much the world she lived in has affected her on an emotional and psychological level. She carries a very heavy burden on her shoulders cause you know she’s the only one who can slay grima and all while also having to lead everyone. Despite all this she remains strong and doesn’t falter, clinging to hope with as much desperation and determination as shr can. She failed her duty once and she’s not gonna fail again.

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Don’t even get me started with Faye. I truly despise that bitch.

Peri kills people for fun. How is that charming?

Camilla for obvious reasons.

Olivia because I’m not into shy bitches.

Florina for the same reason as Olivia when it comes to men.

 

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My least favorite Fire Emblem characters are easily Robin and Corrin. Worst gaming avatar characters period. When Jaden Korr from Jedi Academy (God bless that game) is a more interesting a memorable character that protagonists from a series that prides itself on strong character development, you know you done screwed up.

 

Aside from those two...I guess I'd have to say Roy and Eprhiam. Roy just felt like Marth lite and Eprhiam was just boring to me.

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