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Why do you think Conrad was added into SoV?


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Five new characters were added to Shadows of Valentia that were absent from its original version on the NES: Faye, Fernand, Berkut, Rinea, and Conrad. These five characters have their fair share of fans, but they also have their criticisms from Fire Emblem players.  One of the biggest issues they all share is that in the end, they were all rather inconsequential to the story; if you were to remove them from the game, the plot wouldn't change.

But that hasn't stopped Fire Emblem fans from looking into why these characters were added for Gaiden's remake. In some cases, we have a clear cut answer from the developers. In other cases, it's left to players' interpretation. Looking at four of these new characters additions:

  • Faye's reason for being added into SoV was something revealed by developers: it was to give more female representation in Alm's army (where Clair, Silque, and Tatiana were the only females recruited in Alm's route in Gaiden).
  • Fernand and Berkut's reasons for being added into SoV weren't stated by developers (as far as I'm aware, correct me if I'm wrong on that), but fans have reached the consensus that the reason they were created was to highlight the game's theme about nobility and classism as shown by how the two villains are characterized. Fans also speculate they were added to act as rivals/foils to their respective counterparts that has a major contribution to the plot (Berkut to Alm and Fernand to Clive)
  • Rinea's reasons for being added into SoV also wasn't stated by developers, but most fans agree that the reason she was added was probably to serve as a plot device that showed Berkut's good side in that he loves her with all his heart.

But then we are left with Conrad. Conrad is another character who many criticize for being another character who turned out to be irrelevant to the story (and even I too agree with the sentiment), but I've never seen fans speculate why he was added into SoV's story compared to the other four. Even if he turned out to be irrelevant, surely the developers/writers had a reason to add him for the remake. Otherwise, he probably wouldn't exist in this game at all.

So that leads me to this topic: why do you think Conrad was added into SoV?

Perhaps there was a story-related/plot-adding reason to why he was added? Or maybe he was added from a certain gameplay standpoint?

If this topic was already addressed in an official interview, well... I don't think this thread will last very long. However, I have heard no mention about an interview delving into this topic, so I have faith this could lead to some interesting discussion. I'm interested in hearing all of your answers to my question. I'll probably pitch in and give my answer to the question I posed if it has enough discussion.

(This is also one of two discussion topics I have planned for Conrad. The other I plan on making sometime later on, probably once discussion in this thread dies down).

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1 hour ago, Erureido said:

 

  • Faye's reason for being added into SoV was something revealed by developers: it was to give more female representation in Alm's army (where Clair, Silque, and Tatiana were the only females recruited in Alm's route in Gaiden).

What about Delthea and Mathilda?

Edited by Vince777
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I think Conrad was meant to be a connection back to Celica's life in the Zofia palace. Her mother was one point of connection, but was already dead, so she couldn't personify Celica's memories. Conrad was perhaps added in to show that among all of the bad in Celica's childhood in the palace, there was some good that she doesn't want to let go. Of course, they never really capitalized on any of that...

With how SoV in general experiences a sudden sharp drop in writing quality in the second half, culminating in Act Foul, one wonders if they changed their minds during development (or if there was executive meddling) about many things.

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1 hour ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

one wonders if they changed their minds during development (or if there was executive meddling) about many things.

There are some unused cutscenes in the opening that don't appear in the game

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I figured that they included him because they wanted to add a mystery: a benevolent version of the Black Knight mystery. Instead of a mysterious masked knight hunting a protagonist, a mysterious masked knight helping a protagonist. A lot of additions that they made to the game seem to echo (pun intended) things about Path of Radiance.

The theme of nobility and classism was a theme that was explored in Path of Radiance far more subtly and with far more nuance and depth. The protagonist outright saying he doesn't care about one's social class eerily echoes Ike in Path of Radiance. But Ike's message wasn't undercut by being secret royalty and having everyone go on and on about how every girl in the game wants him and every guy in the game wants to be him. 

A female character that shows a villain's good side? Where have I seen that before... Oh yeah; Ena, for General Petrine. 

I'm not saying that the developers sat down and thought, "People like Path of Radiance's story, so let's insert elements of it"; well, I guess I sort-of am, but I'm not trying to say that they just ripped straight from Path of Radiance. 

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For 2 reasons.

1.- Like other characters, to thicken the plot, like Mangs' said, they didn't revamp the story, just added more to it.

2.- Celica only gets 1 possible cavalier and that is Atlas who is better as a mercenary, leaving no cavaliers in Celica's route in Gaiden

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I honestly would not be surprised if both Conrad and Faye were added primarily for gameplay reasons. Conrad has good resistance on a route where a fair chunk of the enemies are magic users, and he's the only mounted unit on Celica's path. Conveniently, he also becomes playable when most of the swamp maps are already completed, meaning they won't hamper the high movement of the class.

Meanwhile, Faye has the option to become a Pegasus knight on a route that otherwise only has one. As a cleric, she has physic, which is undeniably useful in general and is a godsend to have so early on Am's side. Rescue also works hand-in-hand with Silques Warp, and provides the option to pull effective hit-and-run strategies if the player wishes to.

Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if Berkut and Fernand were added because it wouldn't be hard to replace a few generic enemy units with story characters. The map in the original gaiden with three paladins and the one with Seazas on the Rigelian border where apparently seen as solid opportunities to continue the story.

Chances are, they later expanded on the characters personalities and their involvement in the plot when they got around to the writing phase of the game.

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I believe Conrad was added in for primarily gameplay reasons as Celica's route does not have cavalry unless you promote Atlus and Faye into it.

He also gives Celica some backstory, which makes her a better character, but it doesn't help him too much.

I guess we could also say his relationship with Celica foils Alm's with Berkut, showing the dynamics of how power can unify or split families apart, but that's a bit of a reach.

 

Overall, I think Conrad had a lot of unused potential. I know they didn't want to conflict with the source material, but I wish he had more support conversations. Having just Celica weakened him as a character and I think it would've been interesting had he had a support with Genny. Genny gets a potential husband for her ending and a man of her dreams (older, dependable, strong, good material for a novel- Conrad is definitely her type). Conrad's ending is kind of meh, IMO. Not because he didn't get married, but because it had no relation to other characters (i.e. Gray and Tobin's)

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1 hour ago, Dandy Druid said:

Genny gets a potential husband for her ending and a man of her dreams (older, dependable, strong, good material for a novel- Conrad is definitely her type). Conrad's ending is kind of meh, IMO. Not because he didn't get married, but because it had no relation to other characters (i.e. Gray and Tobin's)

Her ending is carried over from OG Gaiden so I dunno if they just left it vague and later decided what the heck. There was a illustration from that game's novel (non-canon) that "hinted" a relationship between her and Saber, but it's more of a theory. As for the "lolicon" issue brought up by the pairing theory, it's quite likely she marries when she's a young adult or at least late teens. I doubt Saber would be into little girls and marry someone so soon after meeting them

Fun fact, Valentian Accords (the artbook for Echoes) mentions Conrad giving Zeke his mask allowing Zeke to adopt the identity of Sirius

Edited by silveraura25
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Other than gameplay reasons, I think Conrad was added to the story just to flesh it out a bit more, similarly to Berkut and Fernand. While the story wouldn't have been impacted too much if at all without their inclusion, I believe that they were positive additions, even if they weren't the greatest additions to the story. But without them being there, we probably wouldn't have gotten such great and memorable lines like "...Uncle!" or "LIES!"

Personally, I like Conrad. He's similar to Faye in Alm's Army after he joins Celica's Army in that he doesn't take away too much from the main plot, and he's a great unit to boot... at least for me.

9 minutes ago, silveraura25 said:

Fun fact, Valentian Accords (the artbook for Echoes) mentions Conrad giving Zeke his mask allowing Zeke to adopt the identity of Camus

Zeke is already Camus. I think you meant Sirius, ha ha.

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8 minutes ago, indigoceans said:

Other than gameplay reasons, I think Conrad was added to the story just to flesh it out a bit more, similarly to Berkut and Fernand. While the story wouldn't have been impacted too much if at all without their inclusion, I believe that they were positive additions, even if they weren't the greatest additions to the story. But without them being there, we probably wouldn't have gotten such great and memorable lines like "...Uncle!" or "LIES!"

Personally, I like Conrad. He's similar to Faye in Alm's Army after he joins Celica's Army in that he doesn't take away too much from the main plot, and he's a great unit to boot... at least for me.

Zeke is already Camus. I think you meant Sirius, ha ha.

Oh yeah. My bad

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11 hours ago, silveraura25 said:

Her ending is carried over from OG Gaiden so I dunno if they just left it vague and later decided what the heck. There was a illustration from that game's novel (non-canon) that "hinted" a relationship between her and Saber, but it's more of a theory. As for the "lolicon" issue brought up by the pairing theory, it's quite likely she marries when she's a young adult or at least late teens. I doubt Saber would be into little girls and marry someone so soon after meeting them

Fun fact, Valentian Accords (the artbook for Echoes) mentions Conrad giving Zeke his mask allowing Zeke to adopt the identity of Sirius

Yeah, I know they wanted to keep her ending the same, just to keep it a mystery. I've heard the Saber theory, but I've heard some other theories that make sense to me:

  1. Luthier- Fits somewhat of her type (he's a very protective older brother and she would like his protective side and like that he's a little bit older than her) Plus, he's also someone nobody would expect since they are in separate armies. I think Luthier would like her because she's quiet, fluffy, and has an affinity for magic.
  2. Ike- Some speculate that after RD, he finds a Dragon's Gate, enters through it, and makes his way to Valentia and meets Genny. Genny wants to write a book, and Ike definitely has a story or two to tell! Plus, he's also fits her type of being older, strong, and dependable. Plus, this would make him a very UNEXPECTED choice.
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Conrad had little to no reasons to get added from a story standpoint, and he really doesn’t add to it at all. He’s the most superfluous addition in terms of new characters.
He is literally there to make Celica even dumber and distressed, and provide her with a high-Res cavalier. And being silly.

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On 17-11-2018 at 10:45 PM, Dandy Druid said:

Genny gets a potential husband for her ending and a man of her dreams (older, dependable, strong, good material for a novel- Conrad is definitely her type

Conrad is waaaaaay to young for Genny. She's into older men and while Conrad is an adult he's still somewhat of a boy. It would be a lot less funny because of this. 

Men like Saber or Nomah are more her type. 

Edited by Etrurian emperor
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On 11/17/2018 at 4:55 AM, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

I think Conrad was meant to be a connection back to Celica's life in the Zofia palace. Her mother was one point of connection, but was already dead, so she couldn't personify Celica's memories. Conrad was perhaps added in to show that among all of the bad in Celica's childhood in the palace, there was some good that she doesn't want to let go. Of course, they never really capitalized on any of that...

That's what I think too. Conrad definitely felt like the character who was trying to give players insight into the other part of Celica's childhood: her time growing up as a royal. It's also through Conrad's backstory we learn more about Lima being a cruel king because of the relationship he had with Conrad's mother and how life inside the Zofian palace wasn't pretty.

But looking at what Conrad amounted to, it seemed like Conrad didn't need to be in the story to emphasize how bad of a king Lima was considering other parts of the game already delve into that.

Maybe Conrad could've been a big contribution to the plot had he successfully convinced Celica not to fall for Jedah's plan (considering the moment he revealed his identity was treated as his biggest moment in the story), but considering Celica decided to go along with Jedah's plan... yeah, poor Conrad.

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Probably for fetish appeal, I'd wager. I mean, Conrad is both Celica's knight in shining armor but he is also this hugable, dorky kid? That's got to be a thing.

But I mostly feel this way because Conrad's presence really just amplifies the problems on Celica's side. He highlights how inept Celica is, making it more blatant and consequently more frustrating how she just keeps repeating the same mistakes and doesn't grow from it. So I doubt he was added for any good reason.

Edited by BrightBow
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  • 3 months later...

I thought Conrad was a half attempt at making another Lucina. A masked person that is protecting the main character from the sidelines that is related. But what Conrad makes worse for me, is not having the same presence as Lucina. And Celica look even more incompetent.

Edited by Jingle Jangle
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