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How would you describe Fire Emblem's overall writing quality?


Roland
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Varies per game but in general it's competent enough for me to enjoy it.

Fe4 & Fe5 are the only one in which I think the story is actually good (I haven't finished fe5 yet but from what I've seen and read it's as good as fe4 and maybe better) I even think that the story adds something to the game. Special shoot-outs to fe5 for actually making me scream when I realized I didn't manage to escape with Finn.

Fe15 I enjoy but I acknowledge that some parts are not that good. But I enjoyed around 80% of the story so I think that it succeeded at keeping me engaged.

Most other games fall in the category of: As long as it's a good enough excuse to go on an adventure I don't care that much about the details (6, 7, 8, 11 & 12) they all have good parts and bad parts and they are equal in my eyes.

Fe13 has some good moments (chapter 10) but it never expands and when chapter 12 comes around I had the feeling that all the energy was sucked out of the story (except for maybe one scene). I think that this comes from the simple fact that it was the last game and they wanted to put as many features in the game as possible which resulted in the story losing focus.

Fe14 is what happens when you take the unfocused plot of fe13, take all the charm & nostalgia away and hand it over to different people which all have their own misguided way of writing a story (in my opinion).  

What I do think that Fire Emblem excels at is the experience. Whenever me and my friend talk about Fire Emblem we almost never talk extensively about the writing, more often then not we talk about our experiences, who we used, who died and the supports that we liked. As long as you don't expect Game of Thrones or Dune, and accept them for the simple stories that they are then they are certainly enjoyable.  

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I would definitely say it's below average, especially considering its roots. Fire Emblem may have always put gameplay first, like most Nintendo games do, but ever since day one almost 30 years ago it has tried to include a narrative with different characters who have their own motivations and way of doing things. I would say it's impossible to discard that aspect of the series, which makes its shortcomings all the more baffling.

Yes, Fire Emblem has quite a few highs, and I would say its character interactions are definitely the key selling point in terms of writing, providing both charm and a window into the world the characters live in. However, for such a long-running series, it's strikingly formulaic, and to me it feels like the only game that manages to actually utilize its worldbuilding to a satisfying degree is Radiant Dawn, and even then a lot of things had to be sacrificed or skimmed over to live up to the scope of the conflict. It's a series that is far too loyal to a structure it has had since the very first installment, one that definitely shows its age. The same can be said for most main characters and primary villains as well.

I'm not saying everyone and everything is the same but there is a sense of repetition, that the series is going through the motions. Sure, "different" doesn't automatically mean good, but it still gets to me.  

I love this series, which is why I'm being harsh on it. I love the gameplay and many of the characters, the music, the art...but I feel like there's just so much untapped potential in terms of the writing. Three Houses had a promising first trailer so I'm hoping for a pleasant surprise there, but Fates also had excellent trailers.

Edited by Thane
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Now that I think about it, the only good story - including worldbuilding - that I have played of has been FE6, which I think added more detail to the behind the scenes geopolitics. I also note that the of backstory and the chapter stages were better integrated/complemented. Awakening, and Fates just did not deliver in that regard, and Sacred Stones was sorta okay. Tellius and Jugdral might be better due to a better main plot in addition to a strong backstory, but I haven't played those, so I cannot give a verdict on those two.

Edited by henrymidfields
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3 hours ago, henrymidfields said:

Now that I think about it, the only good story - including worldbuilding - that I have played of has been FE6, which I think added more detail to the behind the scenes geopolitics. I also note that the of backstory and the chapter stages were better integrated/complemented. Awakening, and Fates just did not deliver in that regard, and Sacred Stones was sorta okay. Tellius and Jugdral might be better due to a better main plot in addition to a strong backstory, but I haven't played those, so I cannot give a verdict on those two.

Huh. Don't see people claiming Binding Blade is the best story a whole lot.

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  • 3 years later...
On 11/21/2018 at 7:19 PM, Armagon said:

Yeah, that's another issue with FE's writing. When you're able to make a wiki page with all the archetypes, it's pretty clear that Intelligent Systems is just using a template. Some archetypes, like the Gharnefs, are actual copy-paste but thankfully, characters within the archetypes manage to differentiate themselves enough. 

I think the reason they use a template is due to the sheer amount of characters. It's easier to write Supports when you have a template. SoV has a really small cast and that game has the best Supports in the series. That game has archetypes just like any other game in the series but the small cast meant that they were able to focus on the quality of the writing so it doesn't feel that the characters follow a template.

Basically, i think FE needs to reduce the number of characters if they want truly good character writing instead of just relying on the same template over and over. Because here's the thing, there's no such thing as an original character or story. It's impossible to make one in this age. It all depends on how you do it and with what intention. I like the characters in FE but it's pretty clear that they are following a template, right down to their backstory.

Similar backstories and personalities and roles across multiple games is fine if you reimagine it each time but i don't think FE does that.

The writing is definietly inconsistent, you have a valid point. It's just that there's genuinely decent Supports in their that i can't really hate most of the character.

I think it also has to do with the fact that Corrin, Azura and the royals are just infinitely better written in the spin-offs.

Thank you for a helpful resource with archetypes. I agree with you. To date, creating a new character is a repetition of a forgotten old one. At this point, delving into the laws of dramaturgy, one begins to realize how formulaic the use of plot figures is in modern creation.

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It's generally good at writing characters. Storytelling is wildly inconsistent; the most common problem being that, the more complex/ambitious stories tend to be less refined than their smaller counterparts. Basically, Fire Emblem has a tendency to bite off more than it can chew.

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I'd say Fire Emblem games usually fall into two camps. 

-Ambitions but flawed
-overly simply but solid

I think only Path of Radiance finds the correct balance between the two where the story is so conventional that its hard to screw up, but also so detailed that it never becomes boring. Other games are either too ambitious and stumble, or are too formulaic and become boring. 

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It's spurred some discussion so I'll leave the topic up, but don't gravedig years-old threads, especially just to say 'yeah, this'.

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Depends alot.

I think FE7 is mostly fine, Echoes is mostly good until the last act trips and falls while Awakening's writing is so painful I could probably complain about every story beat for an absurdly long length. (And Fate's story was so bad that combined with the gameplay I didn't even get past pre-route, quitting just before you meet Azura.)

Three Houses I'd say is mostly good but like Echoes has really dumb moments. (And unfortunately the game's beginning, an important part of any game, is one of the more awful bits.) 

Echoes does suffer from a lack of supports that should have existed though, but I did love every support (even the weak ones managed to still feel like two friends talking) in the game. (I just wish we got more, like Faye and Celica for instance.) 

Still, Echoes and Three Houses managed to have me outright smiling at their epilogues with the fates of my cast, which isn't something most games can get. (And Awakening's solo Kellam ending managed to somehow make me think even less of a cast of characters I already despised by this point so much that I honestly wish Grima could win.) 

FE6 is definitely really basic outside of supports and ironically proped up by FE7 simply showing us pre-war Elibe. (And fleshing out essentially dead background  characters or ones with really minor roles like Hector as well as having a ton of MIA Characters that end up emphasing just how destructive this war has become when over half our playable FE7 Roster are dead or missing.)

 

Edited by Samz707
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On 6/14/2022 at 3:47 PM, Etrurian emperor said:

I'd say Fire Emblem games usually fall into two camps. 

-Ambitions but flawed
-overly simply but solid

I think only Path of Radiance finds the correct balance between the two where the story is so conventional that its hard to screw up, but also so detailed that it never becomes boring. Other games are either too ambitious and stumble, or are too formulaic and become boring. 

You summed it up better than I could. Path of Radiance really did find the best balance between the two.

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On 6/13/2022 at 4:40 PM, AnthonyLee said:

Thank you for a helpful resource with archetypes. I agree with you. To date, creating a new character is a repetition of a forgotten old one. At this point, delving into the laws of dramaturgy, one begins to realize how formulaic the use of plot figures is in modern creation. There's even some interesting material regarding the dependence of arch-types and tattoos on a resource https://studymoose.com/free-essays/tattoo with free essay samples for students. That is, even individuality in the form of self-expression can be predictable and readable.

You're right, but there is also a genre of art house and experimental film and literature that violates the traditional foundations of archetypes and plot. Often this was used by the Coen Brothers in their films, but they hid it under classic storylines.

Edited by "ThomasFranklin "
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I feel like FE usually has poor characters but decent stories; however, the weight of permadeath and having each unit be a person is something that helps the storytelling a lot.

FE, as mentioned above, does use a ton of archetypes, and most games fall into the same pitfalls as the others when they use these archetypes. For example, main antagonists in most FE games are really weak; we have Evil Dragon and wizard in Archanea, Crazy Dragon in FE2, Evil Dragon in FE4, Evil Dragon in FE6, Evil Wizard in FE7, Evil Dragon in FE13, Evil Dragon in FE14, and Evil Mole People in FE16, though the last does have other antagonists as well. FE8, FE9 and FE10 all manage to do a lot better IMO, but they're really the only ones that stand out for me.

Characters usually have problems in each game; in the Kaga games, most people have absolutely no dialogue, FE6-8 have the cumbersome and slow support system, FE11 and 12 have very limited characterization, so on and so forth; characters in games post-Awakening usually have too many supports in my opinion (Though the problem is more with the Support system being pretty bad by itself), while characters in the GBA games have nowhere near enough; I think FE9 struck the balance closest to right, though, thanks to Info Conversations.

The stories themselves are usually pretty OK, if not simple; they get the job done most of the time, though. I personally feel like the only FEs whose plots I really enjoy are FE8, 9 and 10; FE8 is carried by its antagonist IMO, while FE9 and 10 have great characters and an overall effective story. I haven't played the 3DSFE yet, but I do know that rebellions are like seeds. I didn't feel like TH had very good writing at all, but most people disagree, so I guess that it does have good writing if it is effective for the majority.

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The writing quality is mid to terrible in terms of objective ranks in gaming and judging it in terms of literature. The franchise just gets by from the unique gameplay, that gameplay creates an easier attachment to characters as well. It's no coincidence that many characters got popular off being good/stand out units.

Edited by Seazas
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Good writing does not exist. Everything is mediocre. Nothing will ever be as good as you thought it was when you were a child.

Edited by Jotari
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The quality of writing in FE spans a wide range from "just okay" to "total garbage fire".

Imo, when FE tries to write stories that have to accommodate to avatars as well as making things "morally complex", that's where they lean closer to garbage fire. Because story and everything else have to come second to making sure the player feels pandered to. Simpler stories are generally just ... okay. Nothing about FE is particularly amazing, but for the most part simplistic stories with no avatars are passable and not really offensive.

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What do you compare it to? It's better than a turn based strategy game like XCOM. It's better than the last two seasons of Game of Thrones. It's far better than any Pokémon game.

Overall, I'd say the writing in Fire Emblem is clever. There are decent plot twists, the different paths you choose all click in a satisfying way and Awakening did time travel right, which is very hard if you look at other time travel stories in various media.

The worldbuilding is good. I always want to know more about the history of the continent I'm playing and the various nobles and factions. There's a Three Houses mod for Crusader Kings III and it makes a more interesting setting than the world of The Witcher of The Elder Scrolls.

The story has enough twists that you don't see coming from miles ahead. In general, what I think Fire Emblem does very well, is to create a story of war that feels like war with all the darkness that surrounds it.

The characters are pulp, every trope is there. You can pick your poison. Femme fatale? Shy girl? Upstuck princess? But beyond this, there is excellent writing. How Dimitri changed after the time skip in the Blue Lions path was amazing. Not many developers would dare to take a turn like this.

At what it does, Fire Emblem's writing is great.

 

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11 hours ago, Glitterhoof said:

What do you compare it to? It's better than a turn based strategy game like XCOM. It's better than the last two seasons of Game of Thrones. It's far better than any Pokémon game.

Overall, I'd say the writing in Fire Emblem is clever. There are decent plot twists, the different paths you choose all click in a satisfying way and Awakening did time travel right, which is very hard if you look at other time travel stories in various media.

The worldbuilding is good. I always want to know more about the history of the continent I'm playing and the various nobles and factions. There's a Three Houses mod for Crusader Kings III and it makes a more interesting setting than the world of The Witcher of The Elder Scrolls.

The story has enough twists that you don't see coming from miles ahead. In general, what I think Fire Emblem does very well, is to create a story of war that feels like war with all the darkness that surrounds it.

The characters are pulp, every trope is there. You can pick your poison. Femme fatale? Shy girl? Upstuck princess? But beyond this, there is excellent writing. How Dimitri changed after the time skip in the Blue Lions path was amazing. Not many developers would dare to take a turn like this.

At what it does, Fire Emblem's writing is great.

 

I don't see anything Awakening did with time travel that makes it any better than the average time travel story. It didn't do anything particularly clever with paradoxes or set time loops. In fact, it barely played with the idea of time travel at all, using it for the singular purpose of getting the child characters (and Grima) into the story and establish the cost of failure. Not that that's bad per se, but it's not utilizing time travel in a way that's any more effective than most stories.

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1 hour ago, Jotari said:

I don't see anything Awakening did with time travel that makes it any better than the average time travel story. It didn't do anything particularly clever with paradoxes or set time loops. In fact, it barely played with the idea of time travel at all, using it for the singular purpose of getting the child characters (and Grima) into the story and establish the cost of failure. Not that that's bad per se, but it's not utilizing time travel in a way that's any more effective than most stories.

I wonder if time travel can be anything more than a writer's tool if the protagonist of your story isn't the time traveler in question. It's hard to connect with Lucina's motivations when you only ever catch glimpses or hearsay about it. I think a better version of Awakening would have Lucina as the protagonist, hearing about everything that went wrong in Chrom's time, seeing his death, and then you finally time travel and start doctoring the future. I don't remember the finer details of Awakening's story, but I definitely remember that CG cutscene of her revealing herself to her father. Imagine how much harder that hits if you, the player, know know the weight of everything she's been through bring him back. But they couldn't have written the story this way because that would mean every Gen 2 kid from the first part of the game has pre-determined parents. Leaving no opportunity for the whole S support system. Awakening was probably pitched first with "Let's do FE4 again", but at some point time travel was thrown in there to keep it from being "FE4 but with zombies and dragons".

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2 hours ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

I wonder if time travel can be anything more than a writer's tool if the protagonist of your story isn't the time traveler in question. It's hard to connect with Lucina's motivations when you only ever catch glimpses or hearsay about it. I think a better version of Awakening would have Lucina as the protagonist, hearing about everything that went wrong in Chrom's time, seeing his death, and then you finally time travel and start doctoring the future. I don't remember the finer details of Awakening's story, but I definitely remember that CG cutscene of her revealing herself to her father. Imagine how much harder that hits if you, the player, know know the weight of everything she's been through bring him back. But they couldn't have written the story this way because that would mean every Gen 2 kid from the first part of the game has pre-determined parents. Leaving no opportunity for the whole S support system. Awakening was probably pitched first with "Let's do FE4 again", but at some point time travel was thrown in there to keep it from being "FE4 but with zombies and dragons".

Well it kind of stands to reason that for a story to use time travel you kind of need to see the time travel. If it all happens off screen then yeah, it's just a writer's tool because you're not actually writing about time travel, you're writing about some characters, a few of which happen to be time travellers. Not that that is a bad thing, I Stress again. When it came to redo the child system of Fire Emblem Four, time travel was a good solution to giving the same scenario while also allowing the parent characters to be playable (it was certainly a much better solution than the Deeprealms, but really, the Fates team didn't have much choice there other than resorting to Time Travel again). My only real complaint about how the child characters are handled in Awakening is that, aside from Lucina, they're all pushed to the side into paralogues and do absolutely nothing to contribute to the main story. Is hard to think of it as their story about saving their world from that fate when they have absolutely no meaningful contribution to the main plot (course, at the same time Awakening, for better or worse, is 40% main plot and 60% side content so it's not like their irrelevancy actually damages the overall shape of the game).

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On 7/4/2022 at 9:07 PM, Jotari said:

Not that that's bad per se, but it's not utilizing time travel in a way that's any more effective than most stories.

It serves a gameplay mechanic, which is more than most plots in most games do.

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