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Losers in regards to Dark and Light elements:
Marth: dubbed Hero of Light in FE12; has Light element in FE Warriors; gets Fire element in FEH
Eirika: possesses Light affinity in FE8; gets Water element in FEH
Robin: could've easily had the Dark element; gets Earth element in FEH
Tiki: could've easily had the Light element; gets Earth element in FEH

Upcoming LH units we can expect:
Micaiah: protagonist, has the Dark affinity in FE10
Corrin: protagonist, could easily have either Dark of Light affinity based on chosen faction (likely Dark element due to number of possible Light LH units and Corrin having the Dark element in FE Warriors)
Seliph: protagonist, dubbed Heir of Light
Sigurd: protagonist, dubbed Holy Knight
Celica: protagonist, priestess of Mila, has Light element in FE Warriors (though that is at least partly due to her being Marth's clone)
Xander: major character, counterpart to Ryoma, possesses Dark element in FE Warriors
Kris: protagonist, dubbed Hero of Shadow

Edited by Roflolxp54
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4 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

It's also far less disruptive to change a unit's element than it is to change their stats.

It's still a retcon on existing material and by that point changing BST wouldn't be that far off anymore. No way IS is going to risk that unless they introduce a far more controversial change to the game (like 6* rarity) that would require a more substantial rebalancing.

EDIT:
Also why stop with Tiki, Grima and Lucina? Considering Fates is all about Light and Dark might as well make Ryoma Light for being a Hoshidan so a future Xander can be Dark. People brought up Eirika as well due to Light being her original attribute.

Even if they change some of them, people will clamor for others as well or complain of the changed ones because of other arbitrary reasons so IS might as well leave them as they are and not open that can of worms in the first place.

Edited by The Priest
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29 minutes ago, The Priest said:

It's still a retcon on existing material and by that point changing BST wouldn't be that far off anymore. No way IS is going to risk that unless they introduce a far more controversial change to the game (like 6* rarity) that would require a more substantial rebalancing.

By your logic, they can't release any controversial thing ever because any controversial change needs to be preceded by a more controversial change.

All you've done with your argument is picked out which controversial changes that you think are more likely to happen or that you are less opposed to see happen.

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5 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

By your logic, they can't release any controversial thing ever because any controversial change needs to be preceded by a more controversial change.

All you've done with your argument is picked out which controversial changes that you think are more likely to happen or that you are less opposed to see happen.

Or you know, not do controversial stuff in the first place?
I don't see why Tiki, Grima and Lucina suddenly have to change elements because Light and Dark are introduced.

And IS has a precedent with changes like this. e.g. they didn't made Slaying weapons available for existing Killer weapons and forced players to refine them much later after their introduction.
As you said, there is no reason for them to hand out compensation so why expect such a change in the first place?

Edited by The Priest
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2 minutes ago, The Priest said:

I don't see why Tiki, Grima and Lucina suddenly have to change elements because Light and Dark are introduced.

Go back and read the original post and tell me what it says I said instead of putting words in my mouth. Or, you know what, I'll just go and do that for you.

23 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

I'm honestly hoping that they retcon Lucina, Tiki, and Grima to Light, Light, and Dark, respectively, and justify it by giving out like 3 Wind, 6 Earth, 6 Light, and 3 Dark blessings as compensation. (The Light and Dark blessings to switch over existing teams to the new element and the Wind and Earth blessings to compensate for the blessings that would be overwritten.)

I have no idea how "I'm honestly hoping that" is in any way equivalent to "They have to".

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7 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

I have no idea how "I'm honestly hoping that" is in any way equivalent to "They have to".

Alright, then read my previous post like this because clearly you're misunderstanding everything by this point.

"Why do you want to see Tiki, Grima and Lucina change their elements in the first place?"

And my initial response is just refuting that point because it's simply too unlikely to happen (which you apparently acknowledge yourself).
 

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I can't imagine they'll redo elements for anybody that's already released. We're probably just going to get a new set of 4 light and 4 dark heroes, if they stick to the same structure as before.

I think it's a good thing, since this can mean 8 more legendary hero slots and it means legendary banners will continue for the foreseeable future. More monthly unit reruns and more chances for legendary Alm, Xander, etc. that people want to see. That is of course assuming that these blessings are indeed legendary hero-related and not implemented in some other way. Considering the 16 character chart of the previous 4 elements seemed so planned out, it's still possible these could be added in some weird way related to the book 3 story or something instead. It's probably just more legendaries, but at least the possibility makes it interesting either way.

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9 minutes ago, The Priest said:

Alright, then read my previous post like this because clearly you're misunderstanding everything by this point.

If you want me to answer the question of "why I want something to be some way", then don't ask me "why something must be some way". As much as I do try to discern what a person is trying to ask (as opposed to what they are actually saying), those are two very different questions. The first should result in a largely subjective opinion that can have, but doesn't need to have justification, whereas the second is something that should be objective and supported with well-reasoned justification.

 

9 minutes ago, The Priest said:

"Why do you want to see Tiki, Grima and Lucina change their elements in the first place?"

Because the elements I want them to change to make more sense than the elements they currently have.

Edited by Ice Dragon
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Oooh, Legendary Micaiah with Dark Blessing? And SELIPH with Light blessing? Yes my boy will finally get love!

Also this argument that you two are having is going nowhere.

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I don't think they are going to change elements of already released heroes.  Some people specifically pulled for an earth hero, or wind hero....maybe it is the only one of that element they have.  IS has avoided controversial moves like this thusfar I don't think they want to completely tank their reputation.

Anyways the response looks like dark/light blessed heroes will come in the future.  While it is nice to have light and dark in the game, this means there are two more elements you need at least one legendary hero of.  

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I just wish they would have goone a different route with the blessings if leg. heroes instead of a flat stat boost. Like kinda incorporate a toned down blessing of their personal exclusiv skill

That way Team compositions would have been much more interesting.

For example:

Leg Robin would grant 3HP and Iotes shield

Leg Marth would grant a 3 HP firesweep effect when fighting dragons (but not a guaranteed follow up)

Leg Gunnthra would have added some small bonus dmg when fighting debuffed enemys (not on her scale of course). Like 1 additional dmg per active debuff.

Fjorm would have added 5 reduced dmg when being attacked by ranged users

list goes on. Would open up more interesting and dynamic Team compositions.

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6 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

I'm not sure what your point was, then, because mine was that screwage happens anyways, so retconning existing units, while unlikely, is definitely not completely out of the question.

I don't expect it because no unit in Heroes has been retconned. Some of them have been made obsolete, but not retconned.

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

The first should result in a largely subjective opinion that can have, but doesn't need to have justification, whereas the second is something that should be objective and supported with well-reasoned justification.

For the record, I also took your posts as closer to the second as the first, since you're trying to justify the change by equating it to other changes that have been made.

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7 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

For the record, I also took your posts as closer to the second as the first, since you're trying to justify the change by equating it to other changes that have been made.

I was just following the argument wherever it decided to go. There was no need to return to my original post until ThePriest brought the argument back there. (This isn't like one of my arguments with DehNutCase where I needed or cared to keep dragging the argument back to the original topic on hand.)

I was arguing against the fact that ThePriest's responses to me were not logically sound, which had nothing to do with my original post until the topic went back to it.

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11 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

I was just following the argument wherever it decided to go.

As I said, it felt like your argument changed from your original post. I wouldn't blame the Priest for thinking you were arguing what should happen rather than what you would like to happen.

Edited by Baldrick
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22 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

As I said, it felt like your argument changed from your original post.

I was arguing against different things with each of my responses:

 

18 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Introducing characters with higher score caps screws over players who relied on the previous score caps for scoring. Introducing skills that invalidate previously viable strategies screws over players who previously used those strategies. Introducing "new power" refinable unique weapons screws over players who previously spent a scarce (meaning there isn't enough to go around) limited (meaning you can't farm or purchase arbitrary amount of it) resource on refining other weapons.

Screwage caused by change is always going to happen at varying levels, and it is uncompensated most of the time.

Which was regarding the statement that "they wouldn't do something that would screw over players so-and-so much".

 

2 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

By your logic, they can't release any controversial thing ever because any controversial change needs to be preceded by a more controversial change.

All you've done with your argument is picked out which controversial changes that you think are more likely to happen or that you are less opposed to see happen.

Which was regarding the statement that "they have to implement something so-and-so controversial to get in a change less controversial than that".

 

Both of those were to point out inconsistencies in the ThePriest's arguments.

Neither of them were for the purpose of defending a "damn, it would be nice if..." statement because a statement of that sort doesn't really need to be defended. You can ask why I think that way, which ThePriest did eventually do, but that's not the same.

I was more confused why ThePriest was constantly pestering me on the issue until I realized he thought I meant that I wanted them to actually do that.

 

EDIT: In layman's terms:

I get triggered by poorly constructed arguments.

Edited by Ice Dragon
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Spoiler
Quote

Neither of them were for the purpose of defending a "damn, it would be nice if..." statement because a statement of that sort doesn't really need to be defended.

I agree. But I don't know why you thought it was being attacked.

Quote

I have no idea how "I'm honestly hoping that" is in any way equivalent to "They have to".

 

I'll stop derailing the thread now.

 

1 hour ago, Hilda said:

I just wish they would have goone a different route with the blessings if leg. heroes instead of a flat stat boost. Like kinda incorporate a toned down blessing of their personal exclusiv skill

It's interesting, but maybe a little too good. I don't want to feel like I have to have all the legendary units.

Edited by Baldrick
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11 hours ago, Sunsurge said:

There is an excuse for her being water. Lunar Bracelet = moon = water. There was not a light affinity/element when they created her, so out of the 4 they had to choose from water made the most sense. They probably developed her MONTHS before they even thought about adding light/dark, and once they did decide, she was probably already in the roster and everything, it's not really a huge deal because water still fits her in how they treated her in FE Heroes with the Lunar Bracelet and being opposite to her brother, which imo is more what they strive for than following her established affinity back in the Gameboy Advance era. 

It doesn't excuse her being water because they've established affinity = element. This is a precedent, a fact. As long as a characters affinity is in FEH, their element will be the same as their affinity. Her affinity is light, thus she should be light in FEH. This means more than any arbitrary ties to water you come up with.

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1 hour ago, TheWill said:

It doesn't excuse her being water because they've established affinity = element. This is a precedent, a fact. As long as a characters affinity is in FEH, their element will be the same as their affinity. Her affinity is light, thus she should be light in FEH. This means more than any arbitrary ties to water you come up with.

IF it was a "fact", then why is she water? =P Doesn't seem like the precedent is correct then, now does it? Not to mention these "arbitrary ties" are clearly what they went with when deciding her element in FEH.

So it's not really an excuse, it's what they did based on what they had when they came up with her. 4 elements, they had to choose one. Water realistically made the most sense. Sure if she was introduced later she'd have been Light, but it wasn't a possibility, so yes that is actually 100% an excuse.

Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it can't be excused. 

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17 minutes ago, Sunsurge said:

IF it was a "fact", then why is she water? =P Doesn't seem like the precedent is correct then, now does it? Not to mention these "arbitrary ties" are clearly what they went with when deciding her element in FEH.

So it's not really an excuse, it's what they did based on what they had when they came up with her. 4 elements, they had to choose one. Water realistically made the most sense. Sure if she was introduced later she'd have been Light, but it wasn't a possibility, so yes that is actually 100% an excuse.

Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it can't be excused. 

You answered it yourself. She's water because light hadn't been released yet. Hence, why they should change her to light.

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7 minutes ago, TheWill said:

You answered it yourself. She's water because light hadn't been released yet. Hence, why they should change her to light.

I literally said that in my original post, did you not read it? -_-

I don't really think they need to change her or any other heroes that have been released, tbh. Not that they can't if they feel it's important, but I honestly doubt they'll view it as important and as stated, they have plenty of reasons to keep her water that make sense, so it's not necessary.

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3 hours ago, Sunsurge said:

I literally said that in my original post, did you not read it? -_-

I don't really think they need to change her or any other heroes that have been released, tbh. Not that they can't if they feel it's important, but I honestly doubt they'll view it as important and as stated, they have plenty of reasons to keep her water that make sense, so it's not necessary.

I don't know why you're reiterating that you 'already said that' when my post started with 'You answered it yourself'. 

Her reasons for being water are inferior for her reasons to be light.

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