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Units that are good in spite of their class


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This topic is about units you feel are good, but are held back from being even better by having a sub-optimal class.  For me, the two standouts are Jaffar and Effie.

Jaffar has excellent bases, but is stuck in a bad class that only has 6 Mov and no access to good 1-2-Range weapons.

Effie is very well-liked for her offensive capabilities, but she definitely seems to be better at attacking than defending and would probably be better off in a class that emphasizes her high attack power and doesn't have low Mov.

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Oswin is far from the best unit in Blazing Blade, but brings a durable frontliner to HHM earlygame for all those moments where Marcus can't be everywhere at once.

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Lukas and Forsyth are extremely good in Gaiden thanks to the Warp spell having no limit to its range unlike in Echoes where it was nerfed. Soldiers that can fly across the map and tank pretty much everything (except magic) is really handy to have. They can also draw attention to themselves and weaken the enemy units, allowing your other units to come in for easy kills. I may have personal bias on this one.

Lewyn, Ced, and the Murder Twins (Larcei and Ulster) from Genealogy of the Holy War are easily some of the best units in the game despite being foot-locked in a game where mounts matter. They never get access to mounts, but they're offensive capabilities are through the roof, so it's hard not to use them. I also recall Azelle being pretty good before and after his promotion, although that's most likely just me.

Edited by indigoceans
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3 minutes ago, indigoceans said:

Llewyn, Ced, and the Murder Twins from Genealogy of the Holy War are easily some of the best units in the game despite being foot-locked in a game where mounts matter. They never get access to mounts, but they're offensive capabilities are through the roof, so it's hard not to use them. I also recall Azelle being pretty good before and after his promotion, although that's most likely just me.

I'm guessing you meant to say Lewyn, because the one whose name starts with two L's is a capturable Berserker boss from Fates.

And by the Murder Twins, I'm guessing you mean Larcei and Ulster.

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29 minutes ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

I'm guessing you meant to say Lewyn, because the one whose name starts with two L's is a capturable Berserker boss from Fates.

And by the Murder Twins, I'm guessing you mean Larcei and Ulster.

I could've sworn it was with two L's... my bad. And yes, I do mean Larcei and Ulster, but it's way more fun to say the Murder Twins.

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1 minute ago, indigoceans said:

I could've sworn it was with two L's... my bad. And yes, I do mean Larcei and Ulster, but it's way more fun to say the Murder Twins.

I prefer the Blender Babies.

Barst, Boyd and Nolan are uncharacteristically good Fighters. Orsin/Halvan also qualify, but Orsin and Halvan are more like Mercenaries with axes.

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Gatrie in Radiant Dawn is pretty amazing, great stats all around, but he's slightly held back by the armor knight class, and it's stat caps. In a game like Radiant Dawn where stat caps are more important than any other FE, you really want to have a good set of them, and the armor knight classes just don't have the best caps.

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30 minutes ago, soly said:

Is it wrong that I'm thinking of Rutger? Because I'm definitely thinking of Rutger somehow.

I mean, he's a standout infantry unit in a Horse Emblem game. 

Swordmasters/Myrmidons don't have the best reputations outside of him. 

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Shanan probably has the best offense at the point that he joins (unless you have Forseti Arthur with pursuit ring). Shame that he rarely fights.

I always found the snipers in fe6 really useful since they don't need any training to be helpful and the fact that you often need chip damage to finish enemies in fe6.

Leif (in thracia 776) is really good even though he is a sword-locked lord that never gets another weapon type or a mount. 

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3 hours ago, Arcphoenix said:

Charlotte in her class. She can actually reach 100 crit according to a friend of mine, and in my file she was pretty scary.

Not to start an argument, but I would sooner say Charlotte is just bad. Coming underleveled, with the most inaccurate weapon type, and with crap stats in most areas does that to you. Also, I don't really see getting to 100 crit as something worth bragging about when an awful weapon (the Awful Club with its lol45hit) is needed to get there.

Anyway, I would second Barst and Nolan.

Edited by Shadow Mir
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2 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Not to start an argument, but I would sooner say Charlotte is just bad. Coming underleveled, with the most inaccurate weapon type, and with crap stats in most areas does that to you.

We all know how this is going to turn out.

Do you yourself have any better suggestions for good units in bad classes?

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Rutger contains the recipe for a trash unit, but is actually very good. On hard mode, he's one of your best (and potentially your only, if you're unlucky) boss killers. He doesn't have a horse, but it's very easy to keep him up with the rest of your army if you rescue/drop him.

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4 minutes ago, pannacotta__ said:

Rutger contains the recipe for a trash unit, but is actually very good. On hard mode, he's one of your best (and potentially your only, if you're unlucky) boss killers. He doesn't have a horse, but it's very easy to keep him up with the rest of your army if you rescue/drop him.

The main things in his favor are that Swordmasters in Binding Blade get a stupidly high +30 Critical and that the hit rates in Binding Blade are sufficiently low that dodge-tanking is actually a viable strategy most of the time.

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35 minutes ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

The main things in his favor are that Swordmasters in Binding Blade get a stupidly high +30 Critical and that the hit rates in Binding Blade are sufficiently low that dodge-tanking is actually a viable strategy most of the time.

That's fair, but Swordmasters typically are terrible. Even Fir isn't all that good. 

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I feel like Kellam would be better as anything but an armor knight; he has enough defense on his own that he really doesn't need the extra defense at the cost of movement and speed.  Same sort of deal with Kjelle.

Hinata should've been an oni savage at start, because the samurai class doesn't do him much good.  And Felicia should've been a Strategist, though I feel they deliberately gave her a class whose combat relies on strength for a couple weapon ranks to represent her desire to take on roles that are ill suited to her in a gameplay sense (which is rather brilliant, though might also be giving the writers too much credit).  Effie probably would've been more useful as a mercenary, and Nyx would be better able to get the ball rolling if she were a troubadour.

Arden might've been just as useful or more useful than Noish and Alec if he wasn't stuck as a stinky armor knight.  Hannibal would also actually be useful if he was anything but what he is, as he's actually a pretty solid combatant.  And the Isaac twins (Larcei and Ulster) would be among the most OP units in the game if they were on mounts (I mean, they already are OP, but they'd be straight up game breaking with mounts).

And of course, Draug would've been good as a myrmidon, archer, or cavalier.  I know, I've listed a lot of armor knights, but without the level design to properly complement their strongest values as defenders, they all kind of suck.  It's most egregious in Genealogy and Awakening, the former because it has giant maps and the latter because the maps are usually open enough that there aren't a whole lot of good choke points.

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18 hours ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

We all know how this is going to turn out.

Do you yourself have any better suggestions for good units in bad classes?

What do you expect, we're talking about axe infantry, aka the one unit type that's most consistent about having crippling weaknesses without meaningful redeeming features to make up for said weaknesses. And this is Conquest we're talking about, where I'd rather not have to coddle someone who's obviously far more trouble than they're worth...

Anyway, aside from Barst and Nolan, about the only respectable foot axes in the series are Geitz and PoR Boyd. As for units in other classes, I'd say Takumi, Nina, and RD Shinon, all of whom are in games where bows are better than normal (though their games nerfed magic, which might have something to do with this).

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17 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

What do you expect, we're talking about axe infantry, aka the one unit type that's most consistent about having crippling weaknesses without meaningful redeeming features to make up for said weaknesses. And this is Conquest we're talking about, where I'd rather not have to coddle someone who's obviously far more trouble than they're worth...

What I meant is that while you say you don't mean to start an argument, you very often do end up starting an argument whenever somebody says Charlotte is anything but hot burning trash.

Edited by Von Ithipathachai
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Charlotte's problem isn't really her class per-se (in any other FE game her class would be absolutely perfect for her and would be one of her biggest selling points) so much as a problem thats very specific to Fates--weapon rebalancing.

Charlotte moreso than any other unit in Fates, IMO, suffers from the nerf to hand axes.

If she could utilize her excellently distributed offensive stat line and growths at 1-2 range without always having to expose herself to frontline combat, she'd be great.  She'd be Fe7 raven + access to hand axes pre-promotion great. 

As a fighter in any other game in the franchise she'd be able to pull that off. 

As is she's more-or-less locked into the roll that myrmidons have historically found themselves pigeonholed into: a squishy melee unit that struggles to stay alive on the frontlines and struggles to contribute anything meaningful to the team anywhere else. 

 

Edited by Shoblongoo
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1 hour ago, Shoblongoo said:

Charlotte's problem isn't really her class per-se (in any other FE game her class would be absolutely perfect for her and would be one of her biggest selling points) so much as a problem thats very specific to Fates--weapon rebalancing.

Charlotte moreso than any other unit in Fates, IMO, suffers from the nerf to hand axes.

If she could utilize her excellently distributed offensive stat line and growths at 1-2 range without always having to expose herself to frontline combat, she'd be great.  She'd be Fe7 raven + access to hand axes pre-promotion great. 

As a fighter in any other game in the franchise she'd be able to pull that off. 

As is she's more-or-less locked into the roll that myrmidons have historically found themselves pigeonholed into: a squishy melee unit that struggles to stay alive on the frontlines and struggles to contribute anything meaningful to the team anywhere else. 

 

Busted hand axes wouldn't fix her being underleveled, having poor durability or facing competition from Camilla or another earlier joining axe user. Oh, and being a prime choice for stat-backpacking, which is one notch above being on the bench.

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On 1/12/2018 at 10:12 PM, Von Ithipathachai said:

Effie is very well-liked for her offensive capabilities, but she definitely seems to be better at attacking than defending and would probably be better off in a class that emphasizes her high attack power and doesn't have low Mov.

Effie is a good Fighter » Berserker. It is simple to marry her to Arthur right after Ch 10 and immediately class-change her into a Fighter to start gaining weapon ranks. Even if you decide not to use her long-term, you could promote her early into a Berserker to let her be another Delete button, and also take advantage of the easy 8.000-11.000 G from her child's chapter.
With a little more investment, she could A+ Mozu, gain two or three level-ups as Sniper and kill any enemy in one phase (including Wary Fighter Stoneborn.)

If she marries Silas, she can be a Cavalier around Ch 11 and take advantage of her high Speed growth; while Sophie benefits from the extra Strength. Effie still prefers Great Knight, but the level-ups as Cavalier grant her more useful stats, and Elbow Room and Shelter are always a plus. (She gets none of these from Knight » Great Knight.)


I was going to mention Mozu in Conquest, but since she is a trainee unit, I guess that it makes sense her starting in the mediocre Villager class. I mean, one is supposed to invest in these units and then see how they turns out (that is why they are given Aptitude.)
When early re-classed into an Archer, Mozu shines as a Sniper in Conquest.

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On 12/2/2018 at 9:05 PM, Ertrick36 said:

I feel like Kellam would be better as anything but an armor knight; he has enough defense on his own that he really doesn't need the extra defense at the cost of movement and speed.  Same sort of deal with Kjelle.

Hinata should've been an oni savage at start, because the samurai class doesn't do him much good.  And Felicia should've been a Strategist, though I feel they deliberately gave her a class whose combat relies on strength for a couple weapon ranks to represent her desire to take on roles that are ill suited to her in a gameplay sense (which is rather brilliant, though might also be giving the writers too much credit).  Effie probably would've been more useful as a mercenary, and Nyx would be better able to get the ball rolling if she were a troubadour.

Arden might've been just as useful or more useful than Noish and Alec if he wasn't stuck as a stinky armor knight.  Hannibal would also actually be useful if he was anything but what he is, as he's actually a pretty solid combatant.  And the Isaac twins (Larcei and Ulster) would be among the most OP units in the game if they were on mounts (I mean, they already are OP, but they'd be straight up game breaking with mounts).

And of course, Draug would've been good as a myrmidon, archer, or cavalier.  I know, I've listed a lot of armor knights, but without the level design to properly complement their strongest values as defenders, they all kind of suck.  It's most egregious in Genealogy and Awakening, the former because it has giant maps and the latter because the maps are usually open enough that there aren't a whole lot of good choke points.

This is more a list of units who are bad because of their class, and not good in spite of them.

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