Ranking the Black Fang from Strongest to Weakest

[Icelerate]

On 21/12/2018 at 12:06 AM, Interdimensional Observer said:

Looks to me like Uhai is ranked a little too lowly, he should be at least above Legault. Legault is cunning, but he admits all he ever was was a cleaner- killing off traitors. Uhai it seems to me, according to his class, was in terms of raw power much stronger. Otherwise I agree with everything else.

I get the impression without direct evidence that Ursula was a Sonia appointee, owing to her great loyalty to her. Since Jaffar is also a clear Nergal addition to the Four Fangs, Ursula could be. This doesn't mean much when it comes to power though.

What's your opinion on Legault's hype of being second only to the four fangs? I've always felt that hype was overrating Legault as he's clearly a sly dude, not a powerhouse. 

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 hour ago, Icelerate said:

What's your opinion on Legault's hype of being second only to the four fangs? I've always felt that hype was overrating Legault as he's clearly a sly dude, not a powerhouse. 

The Isadora support, combined with Matthew's explains Legault's capabilities to me.:

Spoiler

Legault: All right, no need to get testy. I was a member of the Black Fang when you could count us all on two hands. They took me in because of my nimble agility. In the organization, I was known as the Hurricane. My job, like everyone else’s, was assassination. The only difference were my targets. I was the one charged with…cleaning house.
Matthew: Cleaning house?
Legault: Yep. As the cleaner, I was responsible for executing anyone who betrayed the Fang. Black Fang members never beg for mercy. They’d rather die than be captured. It’s
‘cause they know… What happens to traitors. You can never run from the cleaner. That’s Fang law. I worked to protect that law.
Matthew: Really? The Black Fang seems filled with some powerful fellows. And you? You don’t look like much.
Legault: Yeah, but you know… People have to sleep sometime. But then you know all about work like that, don’t you?

 

Legault: Wrapped in black robes, with blades of ice… A movement in the shadows, and instant death… That sums up your image fairly well, doesn’t it?
Isadora: Is it incorrect?
Legault: Yeah, sorry to say, but it’s nothing that exotic. Well, there was one fellow who fit that description, but… Now the commander’s sons… Lloyd and Linus? Watching them work was like watching master artisans. The two of them may have done some of those risky stunts. But for an old leftover like me, that stuff’s all but impossible.
Isadora: A…leftover?
Legault: Yep. So, I’m fairly useless in battle, but it’s nice to meet you, all the same.
Isadora: W-Well met…

B Support

Isadora: Master Legault. Would you spar with me one time?
Legault: Spar… I told you this before, you’ve got me all wrong.
Isadora: I don’t believe I do. The way you carry yourself… I wonder if my swordwork would…
Legault: That’s what I mean, you’re overestimating me… As a rule, assassins are weaklings.
Isadora: Weak…
Legault: Yep. They use darkness to catch their targets unaware, use poison, work in groups… They can’t win if they fight fair, so they use trickery. In a fair and open duel, a knight would crush an assassin.
Isadora: I wonder if that’s true.
Legault: What? Are you nervous?
Isadora: …I’ve confidence in the techniques I practiced as a knight in Pherae, but you cannot predict what will occur in a real battle.
Legault: I think I see what you mean. You knights have to follow rules and win fair and square. But your enemies are not so constrained. That’s rough.
Isadora: Master Legault. If you were going to fight me, what would you do?
Legault: Hm? Well…let me see. For example, while we were talking like this… I’d fix your scabbard so you couldn’t draw your blade. See…
Isadora: Ah!! Wh… When did you…
Legault: Like I told you, assassins can’t win straight up, so they resort to all sorts of trickery.

Legault could just be humble, and that he is past his prime, but this isn't enough to convince me Legault isn't fairly weak among BF elite. 

I think his stats in gameplay are, if not wholly reflective of the reality, are closer than they are not. 

Maybe if Linus was asleep he could kill him, due to Linus being more a dumb brute. Lloyd would probably wake up unless thoroughly drugged and remove Legault's head in an instant. 

Cunning is power, but not raw power. Cunning needs proper circumstances to function, raw power in enough quantities doesn't care about circumstances. Legault's cunning is significant, but not enough that he could overcome all the raw power of all but the FFs.

[Dark Holy Elf]

On 2018-12-12 at 10:07 AM, Shoblongoo said:

...pretty sure Sonia is supposed to be canonically stronger than any of the Four Fangs.

Ursula idolized power and "perfection."

She considered Lloyd, Linus, and Jaffar her peers.

She considered Sonia the paragon of what she aspired to become. 

Yeah I have to second this. I think Sonia is being a bit underrated and the Reed Bros are a bit overrated here. The game implies that neither Reed Brother is a match for Limstella at all, and I don't recall much plot hype separating the current Four Fangs in ability. (I'm honestly inclined to rank Linus last of the Four because he seems like a bit of a dope, but that might just be me.)

[Interdimensional Observer]

4 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Yeah I have to second this. I think Sonia is being a bit underrated and the Reed Bros are a bit overrated here. The game implies that neither Reed Brother is a match for Limstella at all, and I don't recall much plot hype separating the current Four Fangs in ability. (I'm honestly inclined to rank Linus last of the Four because he seems like a bit of a dope, but that might just be me.)

Linus as the last of the FF is possible I guess. I'd be more inclined to put Ursula there though. The issue of course between the two of them is that the threat Ursula poses isn't fully expressed I think outside of gameplay. HEL and co. get a good introduction to the threat Linus poses if you get his FFO, Lloyd has his FFO and introduction, and Jaffar is introduced with a scripted KO, accompanied by a warning from Elbert a while later, and still more talk of his prowess even later. Ursula I don't recall having any of this.

Lloyd to me has to be the overall strongest of the Four Fangs. He is physically powerful like Linus, while calm enough that he could probably predict and deflect any trickery of Jaffar and possibly Ursula. Not to say there wouldn't be a chance he could die fighting Jaffar, if they are relative equals a good chance of that should exist, only that the odds are in his favor as to who walks away.

 

As for Limstella, at the FFO when she harvests one of the brother's quintessence, it comes after they were exhausted fighting HEL, and they didn't detect her, probably because she teleports and is an abnormal entity called a morph.

Even if we lack good direct comparisons, Limstella can rank highly, Nergal does wax endlessly about her being his finest creation. Even if we ignore when he overloads her with power to the point she'll rot away in a day just before you fight her, she probably is strong enough to be a serious threat. At her normal power level, she probably at least as strong as Sonia magically, who if not as wise on the battlefield as Ursula, has to at least be her magical superior.

[Shoblongoo]

On 12/27/2018 at 7:14 PM, Dark Holy Elf said:

Yeah I have to second this. I think Sonia is being a bit underrated and the Reed Bros are a bit overrated here. The game implies that neither Reed Brother is a match for Limstella at all, and I don't recall much plot hype separating the current Four Fangs in ability. (I'm honestly inclined to rank Linus last of the Four because he seems like a bit of a dope, but that might just be me.)

If you bring Jaffar to the Cog of Destiny chapter--regardless of whether you're playing the version where Lloyd or Linus is the final boss--Jaffar has a piece of pre-battle dialogue where he warns you that the brother you're facing is at least his equal and probably his better in combat.

Based on that, I'm inclined to rank both Lloyd and Linus above Jaffar.

Ursula's a tough one to pin down, but I think she's probably closer to Jaffar than to the brothers. 

[Jotari]

I think people are underestimating Uhai. Sure, he's fought relatively early in the game, but he's a dangerous boss in terms of gameplay at that point and is hyped pretty highly by the party as being difficult to deal with. It's implied they're lucky he fought with some honor, otherwise he would have destroyed them with an ambush. I reckon he could be above Brandon Reed.

Edited January 5, 2019 by Jotari

[Paper Jam]

If Uhai is that strong, why isn't he one of the Four Fangs?

Based on that, I'm inclined to rank both Lloyd and Linus above Jaffar.

Ursula's a tough one to pin down, but I think she's probably closer to Jaffar than to the brothers.

Jaffar and Ursula are both present in "Battle Before Dawn", but I have always made it a point to avoid letting one of them kill the other, so I don't know who is more likely to kill whom. That's probably the easiest way to determine who is more powerful. Edited January 8, 2019 by Paper Jam