How would you rank the Fire Emblem Continents?

[Etrurian emperor]

Fire Emblem has plenty of continents and they all come with some sort of lore, history and general set up for different nations. So how would you rank these continents based on their presentation, lore and worldbuilding? Note that its not about what games or stories you like best but purely on the countries in these games and how the story affects these places. 

 

1: Tellius

To me Tellius is the best continent in all of Fire Emblem and I think most posters would agree on this. It received the best world building and all its countries are really well developed. What's more important is that the countries are defined without relying on gimmicks. Other Fire Emblem define their countries by just saying which classes hail from that place and call it a day, but Tellius notably doesn't do this. Daien isn't defined by fielding Wyvrens but by being a racist country that's also full of honorable warrior types and is even somewhat of a meritocracy. Most countries evolve to some degree and the effects of enemy occupation are much better displayed than in other continents. Tellius is even further expanded upon by a lore book which came with a full history that include things like the Begnion civil war or even a full scale world war long before the events of the game. 

2: Elibe 

Elibe isn't as nicely developed as Tellius but its a very respectable second place. Elibe is really good at presenting a world with variety. All nations are notably distinct from each other. Etruria and Bern are monarchies, Sacae and Lycia sort themselves into numerous tribes and fiefdoms while the Western Isles and Illia don't seem to have any real government at all. To some extend the different countries are shown to have some history with each other. Etruria and Bern are depicted as rival superpowers while Lycians and perhaps even the entire continent look down on Saceans. 

3: Valentia

Its a case of smaller being better. Valentia has only two countries but they are depicted pretty well. The spoiled and decadent Zofia is a clear contrast to the cold and militaristic Rigel. The world building does a good job showing Zofia's decline with it being torn apart by mismanagement, civil war and bandits having taken over half of the country. The geography further sets it apart with especially Rigel being shown as particularly inhospitable since its all poison swamps, snowfields and at best northern pine forests. 

4: Jugdral

I'm not particularly impressed with Jugdral. The story and characters are amazing but the world they inhabit is a bit bare bones. Aside from the legend of the crusaders we don't really know much of its history. There's a timeline which mention something of a Gran Republic that Loptyr originally conquered but so little about it is said that its meaningless. The various countries are defined but only in ways such as ''snow country'', ''barbarian country'' or ''Knight country''. The only exception to this are the Tracian countries and to some extend Granvelle itself who need to carry the rest of the continent. That it ranks relatively high is probably my bias and that the three countries I mentioned do lift the others up. Some additional world building is done by gameplay too. Holy blood being so powerful shows how big a deal it is and no one having any resistance makes it clear how strong magic is on Jugdral. 

5: Archenea

I used to be pretty hard on Archanean worldbuilding and I still am. Countries like Grust, Altea, Gra and even Dohlr all lack noticeable traits. The continent is saved by the country of Archenea which actually does have some interesting lore. The glorious empire being founded by a random thief is actually pretty neat and thanks to Anri's tale and Gotoh's words we can piece together a decent history of the continent. The continent hosting two games ensures that some countries are allowed to evolve to a certain degree. Grust for example goes from a conquering nation to being terrorized and enslaved by the very nation it had conquered earlier. 

6: Fateslandia

Its bad. Nothing is developed and the continent doesn't even have a name. That said I feel weirdly charitable whenever I think about Fateslandia. The general set up about two superpowers and various nations and tribes needing to find their way between these powers is an interesting concept, and reminds of Elibe a bit. Nohr and Hoshido are clearly very different countries with established negative attitude towards each other. Hoshido's eastern influances and Nohr being barren and barely getting sunlight further separates the two kingdoms. With Ylisse and Magvel I think there truly is no additional story to tell on those continents but with Fateslandia I think there is a lot of potential if a competent writing team ever revisited the place. 

7: Magvel

Really not a single nation stands out to me. Every country on Magvel feels incredibly generic and defined only by the classes that hail from that place. The countries lack almost any real traits and we know nothing of Magvel's history. The twins spend  little time in the vast majority of the countries. Frelia and Rausten are visited only once while Jehena and even Renais fare little better. Eliwood and Co didn't even visit most of the continent in their game either but this ensured Lycia, Bern and Sacea got more attention. In Stones this didn't really happen. Ephraim spends a long time in Grado but we still barely know anything about the place aside from that its the enemy. Jehena probably has its best since it has a mercenary theme but even that country is merely a fusion of Illia and Silesia from other games. 

8: Ylisse

Same problem as with Magvel: absolutely nothing is defined. Ylisse, Plegia and Ferox never grow to be anything more than ''Good guy nation'', ''Enemy nation'' and ''Ally nation''. Sure, Ferox has a slight warrior gimmick but that's only important for one stage. Plegia is supposedly this sinister place that worships Grima but we only know this because the game tells us, it never actually shows this in practice with the Grima church being represented just by Validar and some mooks. The less said about Valm the better. 

And the main problem for Ylisse is that its exactly the continent that shouldn't skip out on worldbuilding. Ylisse not telling us its lore is annoying because its created by a change in Archenean lore. But we don't know any of this. We don't know why Marth's empire fell, we don't know why Altea is suddenly a desert and we don't know how Ylisse replaced Archenea. Because of its connection to Archenea Ylisse should be held to higher standards that it isn't even trying to meet. 

Edited December 20, 2018 by Etrurian emperor

[Zihark11]

47 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Fire Emblem has plenty of continents and they all come with some sort of lore, history and general set up for different nations. So how would you rank these continents based on their presentation, lore and worldbuilding? Note that its not about what games or stories you like best but purely on the countries in these games and how the story affects these places. 

 

1: Tellius

To me Tellius is the best continent in all of Fire Emblem and I think most posters would agree on this. It received the best world building and all its countries are really well developed. What's more important is that the countries are defined without relying on gimmicks. Other Fire Emblem define their countries by just saying which classes hail from that place and call it a day, but Tellius notably doesn't do this. Daien isn't defined by fielding Wyvrens but by being a racist country that's also full of honorable warrior types and is even somewhat of a meritocracy. Most countries evolve to some degree and the effects of enemy occupation are much better displayed than in other continents. Tellius is even further expanded upon by a lore book which came with a full history that include things like the Begnion civil war or even a full scale world war long before the events of the game. 

2: Elibe 

Elibe isn't as nicely developed as Tellius but its a very respectable second place. Elibe is really good at presenting a world with variety. All nations are notably distinct from each other. Etruria and Bern are monarchies, Sacae and Lycia sort themselves into numerous tribes and fiefdoms while the Western Isles and Illia don't seem to have any real government at all. To some extend the different countries are shown to have some history with each other. Etruria and Bern are depicted as rival superpowers while Lycians and perhaps even the entire continent look down on Saceans. 

3: Valentia

Its a case of smaller being better. Valentia has only two countries but they are depicted pretty well. The spoiled and decadent Zofia is a clear contrast to the cold and militaristic Rigel. The world building does a good job showing Zofia's decline with it being torn apart by mismanagement, civil war and bandits having taken over half of the country. The geography further sets it apart with especially Rigel being shown as particularly inhospitable since its all poison swamps, snowfields and at best northern pine forests. 

4: Jugdral

I'm not particularly impressed with Jugdral. The story and characters are amazing but the world they inhabit is a bit bare bones. Aside from the legend of the crusaders we don't really know much of its history. There's a timeline which mention something of a Gran Republic that Loptyr originally conquered but so little about it is said that its meaningless. The various countries are defined but only in ways such as ''snow country'', ''barbarian country'' or ''Knight country''. The only exception to this are the Tracian countries and to some extend Granvelle itself who need to carry the rest of the continent. That it ranks relatively high is probably my bias and that the three countries I mentioned do lift the others up. Some additional world building is done by gameplay too. Holy blood being so powerful shows how big a deal it is and no one having any resistance makes it clear how strong magic is on Jugdral. 

5: Archenea

I used to be pretty hard on Archanean worldbuilding and I still am. Countries like Grust, Altea, Gra and even Dohlr all lack noticeable traits. The continent is saved by the country of Archenea which actually does have some interesting lore. The glorious empire being founded by a random thief is actually pretty neat and thanks to Anri's tale and Gotoh's words we can piece together a decent history of the continent. The continent hosting two games ensures that some countries are allowed to evolve to a certain degree. Grust for example goes from a conquering nation to being terrorized and enslaved by the very nation it had conquered earlier. 

6: Fateslandia

Its bad. Nothing is developed and the continent doesn't even have a name. That said I feel weirdly charitable whenever I think about Fateslandia. The general set up about two superpowers and various nations and tribes needing to find their way between these powers is an interesting concept, and reminds of Elibe a bit. Nohr and Hoshido are clearly very different countries with established negative attitude towards each other. Hoshido's eastern influances and Nohr being barren and barely getting sunlight further separates the two kingdoms. With Ylisse and Magvel I think there truly is no additional story to tell on those continents but with Fateslandia I think there is a lot of potential if a competent writing team ever revisited the place. 

7: Magvel

Really not a single nation stands out to me. Every country on Magvel feels incredibly generic and defined only by the classes that hail from that place. The countries lack almost any real traits and we know nothing of Magvel's history. The twins spend  little time in the vast majority of the countries. Frelia and Rausten are visited only once while Jehena and even Renais fare little better. Eliwood and Co didn't even visit most of the continent in their game either but this ensured Lycia, Bern and Sacea got more attention. In Stones this didn't really happen. Ephraim spends a long time in Grado but we still barely know anything about the place aside from that its the enemy. Jehena probably has its best since it has a mercenary theme but even that country is merely a fusion of Illia and Silesia from other games. 

8: Ylisse

Same problem as with Magvel: absolutely nothing is defined. Ylisse, Plegia and Ferox never grow to be anything more than ''Good guy nation'', ''Enemy nation'' and ''Ally nation''. Sure, Ferox has a slight warrior gimmick but that's only important for one stage. Plegia is supposedly this sinister place that worships Grima but we only know this because the game tells us, it never actually shows this in practice with the Grima church being represented just by Validar and some mooks. The less said about Valm the better. 

And the main problem for Ylisse is that its exactly the continent that shouldn't skip out on worldbuilding. Ylisse not telling us its lore is annoying because its created by a change in Archenean lore. But we don't know any of this. We don't know why Marth's empire fell, we don't know why Altea is suddenly a desert and we don't know how Ylisse replaced Archenea. Because of its connection to Archenea Ylisse should be held to higher standards that it isn't even trying to meet. 

Damn dude i agree with every one except id put fateslandia in 8th, and ylisse in 6th.

[Slumber]

I mostly agree, but I disagree with your explanation of Jugdral.

Loptyr and the Gran Empire are the ENTIRE reason Holy Blood exists. Galle and the Lopto Sect were so dangerous that dragons felt that they needed to step into Jugdral(Probably from Archanea) so that they could make blood pacts with humans and stop Galle's empire. It directly influences the current events of Jugdral, where the continent is a massive free-for-all between the descendants of the Crusaders. And then the violent discrimination that Galle's followers faced is what forced the Lopto Sect to become what they are in GotHW and T776.

I really struggle to understand what's exactly meaningless about the history of Loptyr and the Gran Empire, since almost every part of the plot that isn't strictly character driven comes back to that history.

I'd still put Tellius above Jugdral, but Jugdral's a pretty solid second spot to me.

Then probably Elibe.

Then Archanae and Valentia. Ylisse is literally just Archanea with only about 2 massive continental events in the 2000 years between FE3 and 13, so I'd rank it slightly lower due to how uneventful is seemingly became. Also the lore's a bit of a mess, like why the Deadlords, with the same names and weapons as the Jugdral Dreadlords, are now there. They seemed pretty specific to Loptyr.

At the bottom it's a tie between Fateslandia and Magvel. Fateslandia spends more time going into why the continent is the way it is, and we get some hefty lore behind it, but we don't even know if the continent has a name. Magvel is the opposite problem, where we pretty much ONLY know the name of the continent, and almost everything else is so lightly touched upon that it might as well not even exist.

Edited December 21, 2018 by Slumber

[Anacybele]

I'd put Fateslandia last. Because come on, at least Magvel and them have NAMES. xP

I agree with Tellius being first. Tellius is BY FAR the best imo. Why can't IS make more continents this deep and built up?

You're forgetting Zenith on this list btw. The Heroes continent. Though I'd probably put it a bit low because as of now, it's a little bare bones. But it has a name and some lore, just not a whole lot yet.

[Puzzle044]

I am honestly having a hard time choosing between Tellius and Elibe.

Etrurian emperor has already excellently explained Tellius.

Elibe's variety has certainly been highlighted, but I also love it's lore; The Scouring, The Eight Legends who rose up, and the dramatic clash that resulted in the Ending Winter.
How you can see the Eight Legends' impact on the world through the countries they founded or the regions they resided, and in turn see a lot about the Legends. 
I also love the little neat hidden places like hidden town of Arcadia where both dragons and humans live in harmony,
or the Dread Island Valor where Bramimond once called home. Then on Valor there's the Dragon's Gate, the doorway to a whole other world.  (It would be really neat to see it someday)

Tellius also has neat lore, but overall I find that Elibe's lore has a flavor I prefer.


That said though, I didn't know Tellius had a lore book, I really can't rank anything till I read that.  XD

[Interdimensional Observer]

7 minutes ago, Puzzle044 said:

That said though, I didn't know Tellius had a lore book, I really can't rank anything till I read that.  XD

They're both pinned and translated on the Tellius boards here. Some material seems to be from earlier versions of the game, or a little inconsistent with the final products, but overall, they're good.

 

Although I will say Tellius isn't perfect. We needed to see more of the Laguz countries for instance, but I'm someone who really likes a lot of world-building, and still loves Tellius the most.

[Gregster101]

I'm gonna agree with Ana and say that Fateslandia is probably the weakest continent, because at least some of the other continents like Magvel actually have a name. Tellius is probably best when it comes to the continents imo.

[Puzzle044]

6 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

They're both pinned and translated on the Tellius boards here. Some material seems to be from earlier versions of the game, or a little inconsistent with the final products, but overall, they're good.

Oh! Thanks, I'll certainly check them out.

[omegaxis1]

I agree with most of your list, but Ylisse really shouldn't be held at the bottom. Many of its lore does get explained, and while the connection with Archanea makes one confused, the lore in Awakening does still hold and has done enough worldbuilding to understand the history. 2000 years passed, so it opens up for another game to be established. I am quite sure that Ylisse oughta be higher on the list. Like switch it with Fateslandia.

[NinjaMonkey]

Tellius > Akaneia/Ylisse.

[NekoKnight]

OP's list seems pretty solid, although I'm not as knowledgeable about Jugdral and Archenea. Although Elibe is my starter world and I appreciate the diversity of the nation's, it's hard to deny Tellius being the most developed setting.

Fateslandia surprises me as not being dead last but I agree with OPs reasons. There are a few interesting points but like the rest of the writing, a lot of potential was wasted.

What really seems to matter in making a solid world is to have distinct nations with their own histories, geography and relations with one another.

[Etrurian emperor]

9 hours ago, Slumber said:

Loptyr and the Gran Empire are the ENTIRE reason Holy Blood exists. Galle and the Lopto Sect were so dangerous that dragons felt that they needed to step into Jugdral(Probably from Archanea) so that they could make blood pacts with humans and stop Galle's empire. It directly influences the current events of Jugdral, where the continent is a massive free-for-all between the descendants of the Crusaders. And then the violent discrimination that Galle's followers faced is what forced the Lopto Sect to become what they are in GotHW and T776.

I really struggle to understand what's exactly meaningless about the history of Loptyr and the Gran Empire, since almost every part of the plot that isn't strictly character driven comes back to that history.

I think you confused the entity that I'm talking about. The legend of the crusaders and the Lopt are fine as far as lore go. I meant more the entity that came before the Lopt. There's an official timeline which mentions that the predecessor of the Jugdral nations was the ''Gran Republic'' which is supposedly founded near the ''Jun river'' but aside from Loptry destroying this we don't know anything of it. The Lopt empire is actually pretty well detailed with the miracle of Darma, emperor gale and the rebellion by Mara. The Lopt is fine but everything before and after the empire isn't really developed. We know nothing of the Republic but the current countries(aside from the Tracian ones) also don't really have a history aside from who founded them.

[omegaxis1]

4 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I think you confused the entity that I'm talking about. The legend of the crusaders and the Lopt are fine as far as lore go. I meant more the entity that came before the Lopt. There's an official timeline which mentions that the predecessor of the Jugdral nations was the ''Gran Republic'' which is supposedly founded near the ''Jun river'' but aside from Loptry destroying this we don't know anything of it. The Lopt empire is actually pretty well detailed with the miracle of Darma, emperor gale and the rebellion by Mara. The Lopt is fine but everything before and after the empire isn't really developed. We know nothing of the Republic but the current countries(aside from the Tracian ones) also don't really have a history aside from who founded them.

Well for one thing, I feel that most of the history books and such of those things would be destroyed when Loptous took over, as he wanted to rule his way, and therefore needed no existences of other teachings. So it could very well be scarce of them existing. 

The other thing is that the old things had nothing to do with the plot of the story here. There are some things about worldbuilding that would be overall unnecessary, particularly if it has nothing to do with what they are doing now. Learning about the Loptous Empire, the cult, and such does have some bearing to the plot, as Seliph needs to learn what he is facing. What good does learning about the stuff before Loptous be needed for? Are they planning on reinstalling the old stuff back in before Loptous? Obviously not. 

[Interdimensional Observer]

3 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

What good does learning about the stuff before Loptous be needed for? Are they planning on reinstalling the old stuff back in before Loptous? Obviously not. 

Well the Crusaders would need to invent a new world order after they get rid of Loptyr. I cannot see them using Loptyrian law codes, tax systems, and morality and whatnot in their new societies- they're too tainted with EVIL!

Now they could do whatever they wanted according to their own inclinations, being world saviors loved by all, with demigod powers able to crush any opposition. They perhaps could also ask Naga and Forseti for advice, since old dragon civilization might have some lessons for humanity.

Yet, I don't think this would be enough for the Crusaders. Bragi did revitalize faith in the earthen gods of pre-Loptyr, on top of which the Crusaders were placed- a hybrid system of old and new. Between whatever surviving documents remained from the old days, and an oral tradition, which would perhaps have great strength in this less-than-modern world due to absence of mass literacy, they would have some stores of the knowledge of the pre-Loptyr Jugdral. 

So in practice, I'd expect Jugdral after Loptyr to be a mishmash of Crusader invention, and pre-Loptyr tradition. To be revolutionary, and yet also form a link between what presumably was a glorious past in the minds of those who lived through Loptyrian tyranny, which was an aberration disconnecting the natural continuity in Jugdral's history.

For the farmers who presumably make up most of Jugdral's populace, by what inheritance method did they distribute the land to future generations? It is possible they chose according to their own ancestral tradition which the Crusaders played no part in. And even if their monarchal Crusader dictated primogeniture or partible inheritance, there is a chance the Crusader chose their form based on what they preferred using pre-Loptyr Jugdral as the reference point. 

I use the farmer inheritance hypothetical, since it is practical, mundane, and perhaps likely to have endured through the end of the Loptyr era. How many Crusaders would have a passionate and innovative approach to this topic? 

And even if they Crusaders were factually wrong about something in their ancient history, if they invoked on the grounds of tradition and didn't know they were wrong, then the intent remains they were trying to be historical. And that intent is more relevant than the reality in what I'm saying here.

 

3 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

There are some things about worldbuilding that would be overall unnecessary, particularly if it has nothing to do with what they are doing now.

Unnecessary worldbuilding, as long as it doesn't detract from the rest of the game, I would love plenty of this. But of course, having one or three writers spend time on such a superfluous endeavor is quite often deemed just that.

[omegaxis1]

2 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Well the Crusaders would need to invent a new world order after they get rid of Loptyr. I cannot see them using Loptyrian law codes, tax systems, and morality and whatnot in their new societies- they're too tainted with EVIL!

Now they could do whatever they wanted according to their own inclinations, being world saviors loved by all, with demigod powers able to crush any opposition. They perhaps could also ask Naga and Forseti for advice, since old dragon civilization might have some lessons for humanity.

Yet, I don't think this would be enough for the Crusaders. Bragi did revitalize faith in the earthen gods of pre-Loptyr, on top of which the Crusaders were placed- a hybrid system of old and new. Between whatever surviving documents remained from the old days, and an oral tradition, which would perhaps have great strength in this less-than-modern world due to absence of mass literacy, they would have some stores of the knowledge of the pre-Loptyr Jugdral. 

So in practice, I'd expect Jugdral after Loptyr to be a mishmash of Crusader invention, and pre-Loptyr tradition. To be revolutionary, and yet also form a link between what presumably was a glorious past in the minds of those who lived through Loptyrian tyranny, which was an aberration disconnecting the natural continuity in Jugdral's history.

For the farmers who presumably make up most of Jugdral's populace, by what inheritance method did they distribute the land to future generations? It is possible they chose according to their own ancestral tradition which the Crusaders played no part in. And even if their monarchal Crusader dictated primogeniture or partible inheritance, there is a chance the Crusader chose their form based on what they preferred using pre-Loptyr Jugdral as the reference point. 

I use the farmer inheritance hypothetical, since it is practical, mundane, and perhaps likely to have endured through the end of the Loptyr era. How many Crusaders would have a passionate and innovative approach to this topic? 

And even if they Crusaders were factually wrong about something in their ancient history, if they invoked on the grounds of tradition and didn't know they were wrong, then the intent remains they were trying to be historical. And that intent is more relevant than the reality in what I'm saying here.

The Crusaders did just that, create a new world order, in that they made themselves be the rulers of the land and splitting the continent into several nations. But I was actually referring to the current generation that is well a century after the Loptous Empire fell, so I would assume that the thing we see now is the worldbuilding that we needed already, so we're good more or less in that regard. 

4 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Unnecessary worldbuilding, as long as it doesn't detract from the rest of the game, I would love plenty of this. But of course, having one or three writers spend time on such a superfluous endeavor is quite often deemed just that.

Basically extra credit?

[Slumber]

8 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I think you confused the entity that I'm talking about. The legend of the crusaders and the Lopt are fine as far as lore go. I meant more the entity that came before the Lopt. There's an official timeline which mentions that the predecessor of the Jugdral nations was the ''Gran Republic'' which is supposedly founded near the ''Jun river'' but aside from Loptry destroying this we don't know anything of it. The Lopt empire is actually pretty well detailed with the miracle of Darma, emperor gale and the rebellion by Mara. The Lopt is fine but everything before and after the empire isn't really developed. We know nothing of the Republic but the current countries(aside from the Tracian ones) also don't really have a history aside from who founded them.

Ah yeah. I misread. 

I guess I never thought to much about it. Aside from Tellius and Ylisse(For obvious reasons), we never learn too much about ancient history like that for most of the continents, so I just took the fact that the history of Jugdral essentially starts with Galle and Loptyr at face value. 

Edited December 21, 2018 by Slumber

[Jotari]

Politically Jugdral is the most developed country by a long shot. Not only does it have more countries than a typical Fire Emblem continent, but it has distinct provinces within those countries that have a very real influence on the world. That's something most Fire Emblem games don't even attempt and when they do it's very surface levelling stuff. I think it almost unfair to compare Telluis to Jugdral as they're very difficult things. Telluis is a high fantasy world with fantastic racism and a god of order and chaos determining the outcome. Jugdral is a low fantasy story with a political focus on showing the struggles of various different nations. They're like apples and oranges. Both fruit but different on the outside and in the core.

 

[Etrurian emperor]

10 hours ago, Jotari said:

Politically Jugdral is the most developed country by a long shot. Not only does it have more countries than a typical Fire Emblem continent, but it has distinct provinces within those countries that have a very real influence on the world. That's something most Fire Emblem games don't even attempt and when they do it's very surface levelling stuff. I think it almost unfair to compare Telluis to Jugdral as they're very difficult things. Telluis is a high fantasy world with fantastic racism and a god of order and chaos determining the outcome. Jugdral is a low fantasy story with a political focus on showing the struggles of various different nations. They're like apples and oranges. Both fruit but different on the outside and in the core.

 

I'm not really sure I agree with it. Some provinces like Nodion and the Granvelle Duchies are distinctive from their peers but most provinces don't have that. Some provinces like Sophara or some castles in Tracia seem more like filler. A lot of provinces lack any trait apart from what enemy rules over them. Its not to the extend of the Lycian territories which are somewhat distinct from each other and have implied or stated recurring traits.

[Jotari]

10 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I'm not really sure I agree with it. Some provinces like Nodion and the Granvelle Duchies are distinctive from their peers but most provinces don't have that. Some provinces like Sophara or some castles in Tracia seem more like filler. A lot of provinces lack any trait apart from what enemy rules over them. Its not to the extend of the Lycian territories which are somewhat distinct from each other and have implied or stated recurring traits.

I did forget Lycia when making that comment, but I think it still stands (we don't see it as much in Genealogy of Holy War because it's also been conquered by then, but the short story Leinster Falls shows that the four provinces of Munster are distinct as territories too). There are of course filler castles, but my point is that there's way more distinct territories in Genealogy than any other game. In most games it's 90% filler land while in Jugdral it's more like 50%. Grannvale alone is almost as fully realized as most other continents (even if it does heavily resort to standard unit types per nation, but there's actually a stronger reason for that then most games with the Holy Weapons determining what the nation's troops are like). Even Lycia only develops a few of it's territories with the rest being merely named, we just have to assume they're as fully developed as the ones our heroes (and that one minor villain) are from.

[NekoKnight]

On 1/5/2019 at 3:02 PM, Jotari said:

I think it almost unfair to compare Telluis to Jugdral as they're very difficult things. Telluis is a high fantasy world with fantastic racism and a god of order and chaos determining the outcome. Jugdral is a low fantasy story with a political focus on showing the struggles of various different nations. They're like apples and oranges. Both fruit but different on the outside and in the core.

Is it really fair to say that Judgral is low fantasy when you have magical holy weapons and a cult conspiring to breed a host to resurrect dragon Satan?

Tellius is quite political too with different countries having their own issues and relations with each other. There are competing factions within Crimea and Begnion as well. The games don't directly concern the gods until late in Radiant Dawn.

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

Is it really fair to say that Judgral is low fantasy when you have magical holy weapons and a cult conspiring to breed a host to resurrect dragon Satan?

Tellius is quite political too with different countries having their own issues and relations with each other. There are competing factions within Crimea and Begnion as well. The games don't directly concern the gods until late in Radiant Dawn.

Compared to Radiant Dawn, yes. The key difference here is that dragon satan is a human child. If Jugdral was higher fantasy it would have ended with a fight against an actual dragon like most Fire Emblems tend to do. Low fantasy by definition is that there are only a scant few magical elements in the world and everything else is more or less normal. In Jugdral, you have holy blood and that's it (the actual gameplay magic being inconsequential to the plot. Elwind is basically just another type of sword). In Radiant Dawn you have other things peppering the world like Blood Pacts, teleport staves/warp powder (plot crucial as it allows Zelguis to be in two places at once), immortal profits, invincible armour and the rapture influencing the plot. Even if one disputes if Jugdral is strictly low fantasy, Telluis is certainly much higher on the fantasy spectrum.

[NekoKnight]

3 hours ago, Jotari said:

Low fantasy by definition is that there are only a scant few magical elements in the world and everything else is more or less normal. In Jugdral, you have holy blood and that's it (the actual gameplay magic being inconsequential to the plot. Elwind is basically just another type of sword). In Radiant Dawn you have other things peppering the world like Blood Pacts, teleport staves/warp powder (plot crucial as it allows Zelguis to be in two places at once), immortal profits, invincible armour and the rapture influencing the plot. Even if one disputes if Jugdral is strictly low fantasy, Telluis is certainly much higher on the fantasy spectrum.

I don't think any FE qualifies as low fantasy when magic staves, tomes and fantastic beasts make regular appearances. You mentioned Laguz as being evidence of Tellius being high fantasy but are they any more exotic than the wyverns and pegasus of Jugdral?

I don't see why you would divorce the plot from the setting when considering high fantasy elements, especially considering this thread is about the setting of each game. The two worlds feel more like red apples and green apples, to me.

Edited January 7, 2019 by NekoKnight

[Jotari]

5 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

I don't think any FE qualifies as low fantasy when magic staves, tomes and fantastic beasts make regular appearances. You mentioned Laguz as being evidence of Tellius being high fantasy but are they any more exotic than the wyverns and pegasus of Jugdral?

I don't see why you would divorce the plot from the setting when considering high fantasy elements, especially considering this thread is about the setting of each game. The two worlds feel more like red apples and green apples, to me.

If you look at my comment again you'll notice I expressly didn't cite the laguz as an element making Radiant Dawn high fantasy, as they're not actually important as a fantasy element. They're just an oppressed minority, their shape shifting ability isn't critical to the plot, unlike the things I did mention. It makes a good metaphor but you could have the same story with a different aesthetic by replacing them with something else (with the possible exception of the dragon laguz abd herons due to their special abilities/longevity and even then it wouldn't be hard to replace them with something more mundane).

Edited January 7, 2019 by Jotari

[NekoKnight]

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

If you look at my comment again you'll notice I expressly didn't cite the laguz as an element making Radiant Dawn high fantasy, as they're not actually important as a fantasy element.

I was responding to this comment.

On 1/5/2019 at 3:02 PM, Jotari said:

Telluis is a high fantasy world with fantastic racism

I'll concede that Tellius has more active magical elements in the plot. Both games are high fantasy, however, just by the basics of their settings.

 

[Shoblongoo]

On 12/20/2018 at 6:53 PM, Etrurian emperor said:

Fire Emblem has plenty of continents and they all come with some sort of lore, history and general set up for different nations. So how would you rank these continents based on their presentation, lore and worldbuilding? Note that its not about what games or stories you like best but purely on the countries in these games and how the story affects these places. 

 

1: Tellius

To me Tellius is the best continent in all of Fire Emblem and I think most posters would agree on this. It received the best world building and all its countries are really well developed. What's more important is that the countries are defined without relying on gimmicks. Other Fire Emblem define their countries by just saying which classes hail from that place and call it a day, but Tellius notably doesn't do this. Daien isn't defined by fielding Wyvrens but by being a racist country that's also full of honorable warrior types and is even somewhat of a meritocracy. Most countries evolve to some degree and the effects of enemy occupation are much better displayed than in other continents. Tellius is even further expanded upon by a lore book which came with a full history that include things like the Begnion civil war or even a full scale world war long before the events of the game. 

2: Elibe 

Elibe isn't as nicely developed as Tellius but its a very respectable second place. Elibe is really good at presenting a world with variety. All nations are notably distinct from each other. Etruria and Bern are monarchies, Sacae and Lycia sort themselves into numerous tribes and fiefdoms while the Western Isles and Illia don't seem to have any real government at all. To some extend the different countries are shown to have some history with each other. Etruria and Bern are depicted as rival superpowers while Lycians and perhaps even the entire continent look down on Saceans. 

3: Valentia

Its a case of smaller being better. Valentia has only two countries but they are depicted pretty well. The spoiled and decadent Zofia is a clear contrast to the cold and militaristic Rigel. The world building does a good job showing Zofia's decline with it being torn apart by mismanagement, civil war and bandits having taken over half of the country. The geography further sets it apart with especially Rigel being shown as particularly inhospitable since its all poison swamps, snowfields and at best northern pine forests. 

4: Jugdral

I'm not particularly impressed with Jugdral. The story and characters are amazing but the world they inhabit is a bit bare bones. Aside from the legend of the crusaders we don't really know much of its history. There's a timeline which mention something of a Gran Republic that Loptyr originally conquered but so little about it is said that its meaningless. The various countries are defined but only in ways such as ''snow country'', ''barbarian country'' or ''Knight country''. The only exception to this are the Tracian countries and to some extend Granvelle itself who need to carry the rest of the continent. That it ranks relatively high is probably my bias and that the three countries I mentioned do lift the others up. Some additional world building is done by gameplay too. Holy blood being so powerful shows how big a deal it is and no one having any resistance makes it clear how strong magic is on Jugdral. 

5: Archenea

I used to be pretty hard on Archanean worldbuilding and I still am. Countries like Grust, Altea, Gra and even Dohlr all lack noticeable traits. The continent is saved by the country of Archenea which actually does have some interesting lore. The glorious empire being founded by a random thief is actually pretty neat and thanks to Anri's tale and Gotoh's words we can piece together a decent history of the continent. The continent hosting two games ensures that some countries are allowed to evolve to a certain degree. Grust for example goes from a conquering nation to being terrorized and enslaved by the very nation it had conquered earlier. 

6: Fateslandia

Its bad. Nothing is developed and the continent doesn't even have a name. That said I feel weirdly charitable whenever I think about Fateslandia. The general set up about two superpowers and various nations and tribes needing to find their way between these powers is an interesting concept, and reminds of Elibe a bit. Nohr and Hoshido are clearly very different countries with established negative attitude towards each other. Hoshido's eastern influances and Nohr being barren and barely getting sunlight further separates the two kingdoms. With Ylisse and Magvel I think there truly is no additional story to tell on those continents but with Fateslandia I think there is a lot of potential if a competent writing team ever revisited the place. 

7: Magvel

Really not a single nation stands out to me. Every country on Magvel feels incredibly generic and defined only by the classes that hail from that place. The countries lack almost any real traits and we know nothing of Magvel's history. The twins spend  little time in the vast majority of the countries. Frelia and Rausten are visited only once while Jehena and even Renais fare little better. Eliwood and Co didn't even visit most of the continent in their game either but this ensured Lycia, Bern and Sacea got more attention. In Stones this didn't really happen. Ephraim spends a long time in Grado but we still barely know anything about the place aside from that its the enemy. Jehena probably has its best since it has a mercenary theme but even that country is merely a fusion of Illia and Silesia from other games. 

8: Ylisse

Same problem as with Magvel: absolutely nothing is defined. Ylisse, Plegia and Ferox never grow to be anything more than ''Good guy nation'', ''Enemy nation'' and ''Ally nation''. Sure, Ferox has a slight warrior gimmick but that's only important for one stage. Plegia is supposedly this sinister place that worships Grima but we only know this because the game tells us, it never actually shows this in practice with the Grima church being represented just by Validar and some mooks. The less said about Valm the better. 

And the main problem for Ylisse is that its exactly the continent that shouldn't skip out on worldbuilding. Ylisse not telling us its lore is annoying because its created by a change in Archenean lore. But we don't know any of this. We don't know why Marth's empire fell, we don't know why Altea is suddenly a desert and we don't know how Ylisse replaced Archenea. Because of its connection to Archenea Ylisse should be held to higher standards that it isn't even trying to meet. 

tbh, I'd be inclined to lump Archanea/Valentia/Ylisse together and rank them as a bundle. Since they all occur in the same world, and all collectively contribute to building up the history + lore of the same setting.  

With that: ranking the entire setting in its collective at #3 (behind Tellius and Elibe but ahead of Jugdral) looks right to me. 

Agree with your comments on Magvel and Fateslandia; disagree with your ranking.

Magvel is generic. 
Fatelsandia is bad.

Magvel should be ranked ahead of Fateslandia, because generic is better than bad.