Roland

Favorite Shin Megami Tensei games?

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I actually had a recent opinion about smt series where i get why people like persona so much but its based off the extreme that is SJ

 

That doesnt say i didnt enjoy mainlines. The weakpoint of Persona subseries for me that is modelled after 3 was the preset party member since my main enjoyment is expetimenting with fusing demons. While you still roughly fuse the same amount in Persona(probably. Never played them) the fact that it covers 1/4 party member is like ehhh

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IV has been the only SMT maingame I have played yet, and I really have enjoyed it. 
Still need to do neutral path, though.

Of the spinoffs I have played Persona 3-5 and the two Devil Survivor games.
Overall I would say Devil Survivor 2 is my favorite SMT game simply because it is a SMT with Fire Emblem gameplay. 
Persona 3 and 5 were both fantastic, but I prefer roundbased RPGs over action RPGs.

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12 hours ago, Necrofantasia said:

Persona 3 and 5 were both fantastic, but I prefer roundbased RPGs over action RPGs.

I think I prefer turn-based as a whole. Which is why I'll probably always have a soft spot for the SMT games, since I can't really envision them really embracing action RPG gameplay. Maybe for a spinoff or something, but not as the core of the franchise in any prominent capacity. 

But when an action RPG is done right, I'd probably take it over any modern turn-based JRPG. The problem here is that most RPG devs suck ass at making fun action games. 

Edited by Slumber

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9 hours ago, Slumber said:

I think I prefer turn-based as a whole. Which is why I'll probably always have a soft spot for the SMT games, since I can't really envision them really embracing action RPG gameplay. Maybe for a spinoff or something, but not as the core of the franchise in any prominent capacity. 

 

They have the Devil Summoner: Raidou Kuzunoha vs. games on PS2 actually. From what I'm aware, the sequel makes improvements on the gameplay of the first, yet I'll probably never get to it. I've played ~3/4s of the way into the first, and I can't be bothered to get back into it. The action is just so, so, so stiff, and downright simplistic as well. It feels like a first attempt at an action RPG (Tales-ish format to be precise), and by whichever god you align yourself with, it shows.

The game looks nice, the setting is rather interesting (1920s-30s Tokyo in pre-rendered graphics), but poor gameplay, lacking characters (the usual for an SMT no surprise), and a detective-ish plot that is nothing special, all drag it down into Izanami's clutches.

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I have played the old games (so MT1, MT2, KMT, SMT, SMT2) + Overclocked + Persona 5 (None of which I have completed)

Book Two of Kyuuyaku (a remake of MT2) is my favorite. I like the music, the visuals, the story/setting, and demons the most.

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5 hours ago, Pixelman said:

I have played the old games (so MT1, MT2, KMT, SMT, SMT2) + Overclocked + Persona 5 (None of which I have completed)

Book Two of Kyuuyaku (a remake of MT2) is my favorite. I like the music, the visuals, the story/setting, and demons the most.

Yes, yes, yes!

Megami Tensei II is indeed underrated.

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Eeeeeeeh. A hard question.
I'd say Devil Survivor (and Overlocked), SMT:IV Apo, just for the gameplay and the Anarchy path, Strange Journey Redux.
Hmm, Devil Survivor and Strange Journey Redux are pretty tight

I would like nothing more than to had Nocturne, but I don't have a PS2, so I never played it, so the only thing I can do is look at it's plot, it's messages, with admiration.
 

On 21/12/2018 at 4:37 AM, Von Ithipathachai said:

To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to fully understand and appreciate the plot of Shin Megami Tensei IV: Apocalypse.

I guess a Nocturne remake would be nice.  It's the only main series game not to have come out on a Nintendo platform and it would be nice to rectify that.

This article blew me away at certain point, the parralel between Nanashi and God, the foreshadowing of the Anarchy ending and the destiny of a certain somebody being your slave, what Twisted Tokyo is supposed to be, the genius of the broken aesop of friendship is magic that is actually not broken since it was never here, Stephen... is kind of flag, and all kind of super-duper things to know. In any case, there is only one problem.

On 21/12/2018 at 5:41 AM, Interdimensional Observer said:

Loonnnngg, I tried to read a bunch of it, but it may be of some merit. Certainly a lot of passion behind this interpretation. The author's argument Stephen isn't inherently good is interesting, a way of downplaying the goodness of Neutral that isn't criticizing it for being pathetic. I'll buy that some of this was thought of by the writers, but all of it? I'll express skepticism. I'm sure one if devoted can do this with practically any game, or any story of sufficient length- it is the creative power of the human mind. Call it a cautious cynicism.

For any subtle goodness of the whole thing of which the author of the article speak, it is a little too subtle for me. It was overriden by the silliness and anime genericness of the cast, which I found insufferable at times. Subtle nuance is great, but do try to have some ready appeal on the surface, not just Navarre's glowing green rear end in my face.

The Divine Powers were a nice idea though, like the White, but much more appealing, since they're spiritual rebirth and freedom, and not nonexistence (not like Nocture's Reason of Shijima is all that different). And to be fair, the old Law vs. Chaos vs. Neutral system can get boring, it needs some innovation from time to time. Nocturne tossed the spirits of the Gaians and Messians into a Kalpa where they can't do anything for good reasons.

I was also turned off in a crumugedon like way by the Apo's choice to separate

  Reveal hidden contents

YHVH and the Great Will. Nor did I exactly like the choice of shackling Lucifer as a pawn of YHVH. But fortunately, I think the developers might have said this YHVH is only of the IV-Apo world, which means that is wholly possible or certain other Lucifers aren't like this poor one.

 

(To be fair, I'm also not exactly fond of a different mythological change in a different video game series- LoZ and the introduction of Hylia. And if she must exist, then my personal cosmography she mustn't have gotten the Triforce from the Golden Goddesses, nor can they intervene at all, they must be above morality to me. Creators who left the world to run on its own in its entirety. But I don't try to gripe too much. Maybe I just don't like massive mythos overhauls in longtime franchises.)

 

Right in the nail. I want to believe they meant to do that, to write those smart interesting things, that Anarchy is the true path and that Peace is merely a status quo, problem is, I'd have the aknowledge bad anime J-RPG story too with the idiotic team mate that refuse the truth then pointed to their stupid face. And as for your spoiler, yes if I remember correctly, it is apparently Apo only, the reason being, they use a different kanjis in the japanese version for you-know-who.

On 21/12/2018 at 6:40 AM, ArgentSable said:
  Reveal hidden contents

Okay Neutral Ending. You take the power of the Cosmic Eggs (including the new one) and you proceed to become a watchman of humanity. You'd think you'd interact or do something cool but nope, you just sit on the moon with Arthur watching over humanity, allowing them to repeat their past mistakes, all the while you continually combat Swarzwhelts that pop up over and over, until humanity decides to change it's ways or until the end of time. Probably the most bleak ending ever.

Chaos you proceed to create the very same world for Chaos, but less mean. Whereas the weak aren't instantly thrown away, but more or less given a chance. So, it's a normal Chaos ending but less hardcore. Kinda meh, unless I missed something.

Law you go with Zelennin, remove the evil song, and she makes a new one, and proceeds to remove the ability to harm other life (IE she removes any and all function that is classified as morally evil, at least versus humans) and ascends humanity into the heavens, giving us to the Great Will, and not to YHVH or the angels she then saw as cruel.

 

Other spoilers, but I'm not sure if this is official. but I do believe that Alex could be you and Louisa's daughter from the future. I remember somebody explain the theory but I can't recall where.

Here ya go. Each ending.

 I disagree with your point of view for each endings, but I can accept them. It's the beauty of this remake I believe.

Spoiler

I heavily disliked all the original endings, I remember some people on Reddit saying that is was the point of the game, to hammer that Law and Chaos were always like that and that it was always their end goal in past game, but I kinda call bullshit on that one, because each game seems to have their own take on alignements,

SMTI being very minimalist, SMTII you become a messiah for all, which is even more leggit if you take chaos. And SMTIII who take a completly different system of view, with them becoming (seemingly) becoming a parody of themselves, without going on the Ubermentch thingy.

I was irritated that SJ was seemingly telling me 'Oh, you didn't pick Neutral, you big dummy !'


New Neutral: For me, it was like, they stopped their bullcrap with humanity and friendship. And to me, it was good. Neutral was never about human, good, or friendship. Neutral was Neutral and that was it. This bleakness is what I wanted to come back for so long, because I had it with writers who write naive themes and devices to enforce them first, plot second.
Of course, a new Shwarzwelt will appears if humanity doesn't clean it's act, it's the point of having the two other endings

New Chaos: Can't really disagree with you there. Like Best Boy Lady Jimmenez say Humanity won't be forced to interact, let alone worship demons like it was in Normal Chaos. The world is free to create new better rules or not. Chaos.

New Law: Now that's an interesting one, lot of people have different interpretation of it, most of them are cool. Me is that, basically, humanity is now fully united, but not to God. The possibilites are, ironically, as grand as New Chaos. Imagine what it could do.


Each new endings, except Neutral give a character development to your pal, it's like Alex, nothing much, but it does it's job. I could gaze upon that gentle face of Jimenez all day.

I felt sorta cheated though, Alex is Lucifer daughter from the future, and have traits resembling the protagonist's, I hoped I would have some answer with the 'bonus' bosses, but nooooooope.

Finally for Devil Survivor... it just have everything endings anyone would want. Good story, good gameplay, good choices, not overly naive, well except maybe if you pick THAT ending, Got a slight problem with some 8th days that contradict their original ending, but eh, I can live with it.

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Devil Survivor 1 and 2 are my absolute favorites.

Also liked Nocturne, Devil Summoner 2: Raidou vs King Abaddon, and SMT2 a lot.

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On 1/13/2019 at 5:15 PM, Lewyn said:

Also liked Nocturne, Devil Summoner 2: Raidou vs King Abaddon, and SMT2 a lot.

I wonder how accessible is Devil Summoner. I'm interested in the Taisho-era worldbuilding, but I don't really want to buy it if it is too difficult as they cost an arm and a leg in Amazon and EBay.

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25 minutes ago, henrymidfields said:

I wonder how accessible is Devil Summoner. I'm interested in the Taisho-era worldbuilding, but I don't really want to buy it if it is too difficult as they cost an arm and a leg in Amazon and EBay.

As I stated above, the first game at least isn't really hard. Random encounters with simple action RPG gameplay, on the unfun side due to stiffness. Demon fusion is fairly simplified with just seven groupings.

As for the worldbuilding, they use era-appropriate slang, well the American equivalent, in some quantity from what I remember. Nothing excessive, no sentences so overloaded in yesteryear's lingo you'd need a dictionary to translate, but enough IIRC to keep the 1920s-30s vibe alive. Demons speak in modern English, no attempts to be historical there- which would've been amazing had they done that. How would a demon spoken their temptations, horror, and wrath in a prior era?

The game is beautiful though. Pre-rendered graphics as you'd find in things like Final Fantasies VII/VIII/X, Legend of Dragoon, Chrono Cross, and Baten Kaitos, to name some examples (I've never played a Persona so I can't say if they've ever used them). The Tokyo you see is fairly interesting, an older modernity alongside aspects of tradition and even hints of rurality. Certainly not the ultramodern Tokyo of skyscrapers, if in ways having a bit of its spirit. Traveling throughout the various sections of Tokyo on the world map is often done via a streetcar, a thing of the past with a certain charm to me. I found it refreshing compared to the usual SMT settings, particularly since this old Tokyo ceased to exist with World War II between wartime restrictions stripping it of vibrance, and American firebombing stripping it of buildings. The game, if only primarily in visuals, explored something lost to us.

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