Screw it. Let's Iron Man Conquest Hard Mode.

[Johnnie]

All this tiering discussion has made me want to use these characters I love. This isn't a LTC run or some kind of vaguely defined efficiency run, but there's minimal turns lost and I'm not going to boss/dance abuse or sit around for 6 turns grinding staff xp.

I went with a +Str -Mag Corrin with the Mercenary talent. Not exactly optimal, but I like the skills it offers Jakob and it gives her a mount and bow for endgame while keeping Yato access.

Chapter 7 is always simple. Corrin got a Speed bonus for her birthday allowing her to one round the faceless to the west. Silas tanks the north with VoF and Arthur and Elise support while Effie holds the south with Jakob. I could have ended the map 1 or 2 turns faster than I did, but I want Silas out of E Lances ASAP.

Chapter 8 started out smooth enough. Elise grabs the first village while everyone else heads north. I made a cluster of the southeast village trying to feed a kill to Odin. No real harm done other than having to burn 2 charges of my Freeze staff. I bought a new one along with a Nosferatu for Odin. Corrin is level 10, Jakob, Silas, Effie and Niles are at 9, Arthur and Elise hit 8 and Odin ends at 6. 

I'm doing Mozu's Paralogue next before Chapter 9. I probably won't bother logging anything unless I screw up.

[Rezzy]

Good Luck, I started a Conquest Ironman myself this past summer that I need to finish.  I've just been a bit busy the past few months unfortunately.  I can count on one hand the number of days I've even played a real video game.

[Johnnie]

Yeah, it's hard to squeeze in an hour or two of free time, but things have lightened up a bit now that Christmas is done.

Went ahead and cleared a few more maps; Paralogue 1, Chapter 9, Invasion 1 and Dwyer's Paralogue. Not much to write about any of them though. Everyone except Arthur, Mozu and Azura are level 10+. I may actually use Arthur since the 2 levels he got netted +2 Str and Def and +1 Spd. It's a shame he's sitting out Chapter 10. Mozu is a level 4 Archer, Effie has more Spd than Silas and Odin would rather gain Def than Mag. I even bothered to feed a level to Nyx which only netted Skl and Spd. I 2-Turned Dwyer's Paralogue with Niles who got a level and Effie gained 2 chucking javelins over the door at ninjas. I'll save Kana's Paralogue for after Beruka.

[joshcja]

Odin acquired. Iron man is about to get stomped by immortal man.

[starburst]

2 hours ago, Johnnie said:

Mozu is a level 4 Archer, Effie has more Spd than Silas and Odin would rather gain Def than Mag.

That sounds about normal for Odin and Silas. He he.

Did you not feed Mozu more levels on her Paralogue on purpose? She always ends at L8-9 Archer on my runs.

How many units are you planning to use on your main party?

Are you going to ‘unlock’ more children? What pairs do you have in mind?

[Johnnie]

@joshcja Odin has a natural 10 Defense right now. He did manage to get 11 magic at level 11, so he's definitely ready to facetank the next 4 maps.

@starburst I don't feed Mozu during her Paralogue. I don't rush it either so I can give a kill to her if the opportunity arises. I actually managed to get her to level 2 during her recruitment which is rare for me. I feed Mozu during the game. She usually ends up a couple levels behind everyone else by the end. Right now with a Str tonic she can one shot every pegasus on the map and can easily get another 3 or 4 levels in the process.

As for pairings, I don't really have any others planned. Effie desperately wants a horse, so I'm hoping to marry her to Silas or Xander. Silas would also really appreciate a set of wings, so Mozu, Beruka or Camilla would be good wives. It's going to come down to who remains useful in the coming chapters.

I also nabbed Haitaka, but I don't need him until Chapter 13.

Edit: Thinking about it, I probably do more preparation for Chapter 10 than any other map I've played in the series. Camilla needs an Iron Axe for more reliable hit rates and doubling on every enemy on the map; a Str and Mag tonic help as well. Give her a Concoction and she can solo every Oni on the right as well as Oboro and the random pegasus. Odin might need to use a Vulnerary once to solo the archers on the right side. He's going to 2 round them, but it's a defend map so speed doesn't matter. Niles and Mozu are here to take out the pegs that beeline for the center with Azura around to double their killing power. Effie with an attack partner can usually one-shot Hinata or come close and the ninjas can't damage her at all even with debuffs. Jakob can't die to the western Onis as long as he stays behind Corrin who can one-round all of them with minimal damage in return. Getting Dwyer's Physic staff means Elise can safely heal anyone who needs it from the center so she doesn't need to be exposed at all. The most stressful part of the whole map is turns 2-5 when containing the Onis, Pegs, and the second wave of Ninjas and Spear Fighters. The first wave is easily weakened by Niles with the center ballista, and the Ninjas die on EP since he's their only target.

That said, Odin and Silas eat a Def tonic just in case; Mozu takes a Str tonic in case I did the math wrong; Azura holds 2 tonics, an Iron Axe and a Concoction for Camilla and Niles holds a Hand Axe and a Skill tonic for Beruka. Nyx comes along just to make use of the Fire Orb. Haitaka would be nice to use here but my frontliners have too much defense and it would lower the kills on EP.

Also, I do plan on pairing Odin and Elise. Elise would like to become a Dark Knight one day and Ophelia benefits best from her.

Edited December 30, 2018 by Johnnie

[starburst]

13 hours ago, Johnnie said:

 

@starburst I don't feed Mozu during her Paralogue. I don't rush it either so I can give a kill to her if the opportunity arises. I actually managed to get her to level 2 during her recruitment which is rare for me. I feed Mozu during the game.

[...]

Edit: Thinking about it, I probably do more preparation for Chapter 10 than any other map I've played in the series.

I guess that you do not give Archer Mozu more levels on her own map because you normally use Niles. In my case, I feel more compelled to train Mozu becase she is my main (or only) archer in the party.

 

About preparing for Chapter 10, I do the same, mate. I get tonics and vulneraries for many units and plan ahead my moves. For example, since Effie’s Skill is usually bad and all enemies have either Blue or Green weapons, I give her one Skill tonic and one Strength tonic to secure kills.

Silas is usually good to go, but a Strenght tonic never hurts. Oh!, Azura’s Speed most always be checked (to be at least 10) so that she is not doubled (and killed) by Pegasi. Since I often play +Mag Corrinette, I give her and Odin Magic and HP tonics, for they will hold the Oni waves on the East. Mozu doubles everything but Ninjas and one-hits all pesky Pegasi, while my Niles usually wants Strenght or Skill tonics.

I do not use Arthur, therefore he is only deployed as Camila’s butler; she uses his weapons and likes his bonuses.

One thing that I noticed from your message is that you do not seem to favour pairings on this map, while it is a key part for me. This is, I give the units certain roles in Chapter 10 AND make them gain points with their partners, for I like to recruit children as soon as possible and have my army completed before Ch 12. I only use two or three children long-term (Ophelia and Sophie or Nina.)

 

Keep us posted, mate. I have tried Ironmans before but always failed (Corrinette died.) Then I focused on ten-units-only parties with no pre-promotes and no ‘backpacks’, and found a new favourite and fun challenge.

[Johnnie]

I don't normally plan for children because I find them to be lackluster and doing a full recruitment no-grind is beyond tedious in Fates. I do attempt to get Ophelia, and Dwyer and Kana are for items/experience. I may grind some pairings in the mid-game if I'm falling behind on stats but right now everyone is fine.

I also don't use backpacks. I use Guard Stance if the situation calls for it, but if a unit can't hold their own then they hit the bench. I also always go full deployment on the majority of maps; the only exception is usually Kitsune Lair because that map is bull.

Chapter 10 went exactly as I predicted. I give Camilla the Mag tonic because otherwise she 2 rounds the Onis and risks dying for lack of support. No one ever got in significant danger and every enemy but Takumi was killed and every house visited. Mozu is level 7, Beruka is 10 and everyone else is 12+. Jakob sealed to Bow Knight before the map and made a joke of the left.

I'll be doing Kana's Paralogue next and Chapter 11. There's nothing special in either, so I'll be back for Chapter 12.

I'm about to start Chapter 12. Mozu is level 12 and is tied for lowest level after Azura. Jakob is finally a Paladin for Elbow Room; he'll be going back to Bow Knight to have Shuriken Breaker for Ninja Cave. Effie is level 16 so Great Knight she goes. Her and Silas are at A rank so I'm probably going to have a defensive Sophia soon.

Edited December 30, 2018 by Johnnie

[starburst]

I do not want to be a smart ass, and I am only stating this in case you are confused (I know I was), but why would Sophie as Effie’s daughter be ‘defensive’?

Effie’s Defence comes strictly from her starting class bonuses; as a Fighter or Cavalier, her Defence is just normal. Hell, she even passes a negative Def mod to her children.

Sophie as Effie’s daughter has the same Defence as if she were Mozu’s (not factoring Aptitude.)

 

On a different topic, since you are training Effie and Silas (and probably Sophie), I think that class-changing Jakob just for the Ninja Cave is overkill. Just approach the map in an inverse C direction, give Javelins and a pair-up to that family and block the bottle neck; Ninjas will die on them in three or four turns. I do it every time and I do not even use Xander or Camilla. The thresholds are rather low.

You can even feed kills to Mozu, who should be able to kill any non-Mechanist unit on Attack Stance from behind the walls, and then make her retreat through Azura or Shelter.

Perhaps the greatest cost of this approach is that Saizo will march alone and die. But I would rather lose Saizo than one of my units, specially if this is an Ironman run. 

[Johnnie]

Chapter 12 is done. I managed to feed a level to Peri who gained Str + Spd. I messed up positioning at the end of the map trying to feed her one more level which necessitated burning a Rescue charge in order to clear the map without losing anyone. I ignored both Saizo and Ryoma as I didn't feel the benefits were worth it, though the Flame Shuriken would have made good vendor trash since I've burned so much funds on seals already.

Quote

I do not want to be a smart ass, and I am only stating this in case you are confused (I know I was), but why would Sophie as Effie’s daughter be ‘defensive’? Effie’s Defence comes strictly from her starting class bonuses; as a Fighter or Cavalier, her Defence is just normal. Hell, she even passes a negative Def mod to her children. Sophie as Effie’s daughter has the same Defence as if she were Mozu’s (not factoring Aptitude.)

Honestly, I forgot how much of Effie's Def growth comes from her class. Still, we'll find out after Chapter 13 because I should be ready to recruit Sophie by then. Either she'll be worth using or not.

5 hours ago, starburst said:

On a different topic, since you are training Effie and Silas (and probably Sophie), I think that class-changing Jakob just for the Ninja Cave is overkill. Just approach the map in an inverse C direction, give Javelins and a pair-up to that family and block the bottle neck; Ninjas will die on them in three or four turns. I do it every time and I do not even use Xander or Camilla. The thresholds are rather low.

I'm training Jakob for long term viability. I was hoping to stack 3 breakers on him, since I usually don't class change him until after he reaches level 15. My regret on this run was not using a Heart Seal on Chapter 7 for Great Knight. This Jakob has refused to gain any Def but has passable Str and Spd. An early GK promotion would have given him Luna and Armored Blow which would fit his uses much better right now. Bow Knight will still give him Shelter utility, Shuriken Breaker for every ninja after Mokushu, and 2-range doubling with a forged Bronze or Iron. The benefits he brings in AS with Corrin as well as keeping Gentlehomme on him make him worth further investment for me.

As for Silas, I'm not so sure if I'm going to keep him around. I'm not comfortable trying to rig VoF for him in an Iron Man and his Spd is non-existent. I'll definitely keep using him until Chapter 16, but if he isn't near even to Xander (minus Siegfried) he'll probably be dropped. I'm using all of the Royals because I like most of them and they generally make things easier. besides, I may try out Wyvern Leo because I've always wanted to.

Here's a stat breakdown:

Spoiler

Effie: lvl 16, 28 HP, 20 Str, 0 Mag, 13 Skl, 10 Spd, 16 Lck, 20 Def, 8 Res

Jakob: lvl 15, 29 HP, 17 Str, 8 Mag, 17 Skl, 13 Spd, 16 Lck, 12 Def, 16 Res

Odin: lvl 15, 28 HP, 8 Str, 15 Mag, 16 Skl, 9 Spd, 13 Lck, 11 Def, 11 Res

Niles: lvl 15, 23 HP, 13 Str, 7 Mag, 13 Skl, 18 Spd, 12 Lck, 8 Def, 17 Res

Elise: lvl 15, 23 HP, 3 Str, 19 Mag, 9 Skl, 16 Spd, 22 Lck, 5 Def, 17 Res

Corrin: lvl 14, 28 HP, 16 Str, 6 Mag, 12 Skl, 14 Spd, 14 Lck, 11 Def, 5 Res

Silas: lvl 14, 27 HP, 15 Str, 1 Mag, 12 Skl, 11 Spd, 13 Lck, 16 Def, 10 Res

Beruka: lvl 14, 25 HP 17 Str, 4 Mag, 16 Skl, 12 Spd, 10 Lck, 16 Def, 13 Res

Kaze: lvl 14, 25 HP, 11 Str, 0 Mag, 16 Skl, 19 Spd, 8 Lck, 8 Def, 16 Res

Dwyer: lvl 13, 25 HP, 9 Str, 12 Mag, 13 Skl, 11 Spd, 11 Lck, 8 Def, 15 Res

Azura: lvl 12, 19 HP, 11 Str, 4 Mag, 18 Skl, 13 Spd, 17 Lck, 6 Def, 13 Res

Mozu: lvl 12, 21 HP, 13 Str, 0 Mag, 15 Skl, 16 Spd, 8 Lck, 8 Def, 10 Res

Peri: lvl 11, 26 HP, 14 Str, 0 Mag, 9 Skl, 14 Spd, 10 Lck, 10 Def, 10 Res

Camilla: lvl 2, 30 HP, 22 Str, 11 mag, 16 Skl, 20 Spd, 12 Lck, 18 Def, 15 Res

I did hand out my boosters; Odin got the Dust, Niles and Silas got an Icon each, and I honestly don't remember who got the others. Peri and Dwyer are solidly on the B team, though right now I may replace Silas with Peri depending on how her next level looks or I may use both as I've never really given much thought to Peri. Other than Jakob, no one has been promoted or sealed in any way; if Effie and Silas were both made Great Knights now Effie would be the statistically better unit, only losing out on Res and Elbow Room. I think she would make a great Paladin. If Beruka was Master Sealed to a Wyvern Lord now she would still be slower and weaker than Camilla. Odin's Spd is becoming a huge problem; I don't want to have to use a Speedwing on him but I may resort to that if necessary. I also have Haitaka and 2 Lunge ninjas; I may bring a Lunge Ninja to the cave to deal with the boss provided I could keep him alive long enough to get Kotaro to move. Mozu has sat out Chapter 12 and will be sitting out 13, so you can see she's had little trouble catching up to the rest of the team.

I've had more resets due to unit death against Takumi than any other character in the game; he's simply too strong and too fast to tank and it's hard to get the flyers in range without losing out on a village on the west side. My strategy is simple and very crude, but effective. Niles with Beruka's backup tanks the mages to west; after the starting Knights and Wyvern/Knight pairs are dealt with, Effie tanks Takumi with a Silas pair up. Effie also has the support of Jakob, Camilla, Elise and Rally Def from Haitaka. That only leaves me with 1 unit left to bring along, and Odin is perfect for Nos-tanking the Knights. Benny and Charlotte immediately head west for support over there and usually sit around doing nothing. I got a Seed of Trust from a Castle event which I will be using on Silas and Effie to cement their union before Chapter 14; if it wasn't for the possibility of getting an S-Rank this chapter Silas would be sitting it out instead of Azura and I'm holding off on his promotion until I see how Sophie shakes out.

I sold my free Steel weapons (Sword, Lance, Fimbulvetr and Shuriken) to forge a +1 Iron Knife and a +2 Iron Sword. I'm sitting on a little over 7,000 gold but I need to buy some Seals soon.

[starburst]

Odin’s and Silas’s Speed are rather low (on my current campaign, Silas has 13 Spd at L12, and Odin, 13 Spd at L13.) Sadly, I cannot say that it is surprising for them.

Silas’s Speed might get better in the next levels, and Odin can still be ‘saved’ by Horse Spirit, but you will have to decide if it is worth keeping them.

 

If you marry Effie to Silas, remember to give her a Partner Seal as soon as possible. Even if she is going to be a Great Knight, she always wants Shelter and Elbow Room.

In my opinion, even when Effie seals early into Cavalier, she stills prefers Great Knight. Since she has the overall highest Strength growth, she wants the highest possible caps (that is why she shines as Berserker.) But as a Paladin, she sacrifices a lot of Strength for Resistance and 1 Movement, and loses being able to one-hit or seriously weaken enemies.

 

About Chapter 13: Ophelia or Odin can hold the East bridge and then seriously weaken Takumi. But since you still have not recruited Ophelia and Odin has very low Speed, I understand if it takes you more tries. You just need to attack the Knights near the gate and calculate the number of hits to fill the bar, so that Takumi’s attack is always blocked. Then Silas or Corrin should clean the lines with the Armour Slayer (then reuse it my exchanging weapons or in Attack Stance.)

According to what you wrote, you might need to be more aggressive. For example, for me, the Wyvern-Knight pairs move after I have dealt with Takumi, and not before. And since those pairs can only hit once, they would only kill a very weakened unit (if I remember correctly, even Azura should survive one hit.)

Whomever you send to the West bridge (in my case, it is Strategist Elise or Kaze or Nina) should keep on moving and stop the thief. Since you say that Benny and Charlotte do nothing for you, send them West and let them support the anti-magic units. Specially because Scarface’s AI is tricky and might head West even if you stay out of her range.

Edited January 1, 2019 by starburst

[joshcja]

Just freeze stave Taco when you pull the knights on 13 for a 100% safe clear.

[eclipse]

. . .and off to Let's Plays with you~!

Use Camilla.  It's funny, to say the least.

[Johnnie]

On mobile for this post. Hello Let's Play!

Chapter 13 was an s show. Niles missed the third charging mage and nearly died after getting hit by Orochi. Took the support of Beruka and Jakob as well as 2 charges of the Physic staff to keep him alive. Due to the time lost I had to rush the west side before Takumi was dealt with and lost Charlotte to the charging cavaliers. She would have been instantly benched anyway and I still have her axe to sell so no real harm done. Lots of levels were gained and every house visited.

After that mess, I decided to start promotions. Effie and Silas both become Great Knights, Elise is a Strategist and Niles becomes a Bow Knight alongside Jakob. Effie eats the Arms Scroll to get out of double E.

@starburst Not sure how you're killing Takumi before the charging Wyverns move considering they move on turn 1. I can believe he's dead before they become an issue. I do tend to approach most maps very conservatively, but now that I've lost a unit that may change.

@joshcja I still have trouble using my staves. I finally broke myself of hoarding boosters but I'm sitting on a full Freeze and Enfeeble for no reason. I'll probably use the Enfeeble on Chapter 14 for the boss capture but I should have used both last chapter.

Also Sophie has been born. With 15 Str and Def and 13 Spd at level 13 she's definitely worth using. Odin is hanging by a thread; he finally has double digit speed but he's severely lacking in important things. I may delegate him to Elise's backpack until Ophelia is born but I doubt I'll waste a seal on him. This is the worst one I've ever had.

I'm also sorely tempted to dig into my bonuses and unit log. I have every VP/BP, Path bonus and some awesome skills for units like Jakob and Silas. I may in the future but I'm holding off for now.

Also I've scrapped plans to train Peri. I'm tempted since I've always benched her, but I have enough awesome horse units already.

Also Benny gained a level but who cares. He'll be deployed for Kitsune Lair and spend the rest of the game on the bench.

[Johnnie]

Sophie acquired. Only got the Energy Drop but that's the most important part. Brought Kaze along for training; as much as I love flying Mozu I may slot him in instead. Sophie and Kaze got a level with Str and Spd, Mozu got Str and unimportant stuff and Beruka got Str and Def. I also grabbed Nichol. His bases aren't the best but another flying mage may be useful.

[starburst]

On 1/1/2019 at 10:13 PM, Johnnie said:

 

@starburst Not sure how you're killing Takumi before the charging Wyverns move considering they move on turn 1. I can believe he's dead before they become an issue. I do tend to approach most maps very conservatively, but now that I've lost a unit that may change.

[...]

Also Sophie has been born. With 15 Str and Def and 13 Spd at level 13 she's definitely worth using. Odin is hanging by a thread; he finally has double digit speed but he's severely lacking in important things. I may delegate him to Elise's backpack until Ophelia is born but I doubt I'll waste a seal on him. This is the worst one I've ever had.

I did not express myself right about Chapter 13. While the Wyvern-Knight pairs do move, they cross the river or move close enough to threaten my units only after I have killed Takumi. It goes like this: double one Knight on the East, then move right at the edge of the bridge within Takumi's range; the Knights on the bridge will bait and die (being doubled), then Takumi attacks on a full bar. Actually, the one thing that messes with this approach is that Odin and Ophelia land crits just because, altering the guarding bar's fulfilment.

 

Odin's Speed can still be 'saved' by the Sorcerer bonuses, but if he does not gain Speed in his last levels as Dark Mage, I am afraid that you will have to either bench him or turn him into a Dark Knight (for better pair-up bonuses) and glue him to Elise.

While many people focus on Corrin's talent for her ending class, I actually like Nohr Noble. Thus, I usually give her a talent with useful early skills, so that she and her family can learn it easily, without affecting their main class growths. Among the early skills that I always find useful are Samurai's skills, Sky Knight's +5 Spd skill, Dark Mage's -20 Avoid skill, Archer's +4 Attack, Elbow Room, Seal Defence, etcetera.
Lately, my default talent has been Sky Knight, exclusively for the the +5 Spd skill. And since I usually marry Corrin to Odin, this skill does wonders on this family, particularly on Odin. It allows them to double basically every enemy.

 

I just played Sophie's map yesterday. My party had just finished Chapter 10.
I tried to complete it with my eight main units Corrin, Silas, Odin, Elise, Mozu, Effie, Azura and Anna, plus stupid Jakob, just in case I needed unit swapping or de-buffing.
I sent Mozu and Effie to block the southern bridge and everyone else to meet Sophie and then march North West, feeding promoted kills to Sophie. Once the suicidal villagers had ignored the bridge and started heading North, I Rescued Mozu & Effie and then sent Anna to weaken Nichol (Mozu would have one-hit him) and let Sophie kill him by Turn 6 or 7. I actually fed Sophie too much Experience, since she ended at L15. Oh, well.

Edited January 4, 2019 by starburst
Sophie's Paralogue

[Shadow Mir]

On 12/31/2018 at 6:26 PM, Johnnie said:

I may bring a Lunge Ninja to the cave to deal with the boss provided I could keep him alive long enough to get Kotaro to move.

Unfortunately, immobile enemy units (read as: units with a move stat of -) cannot be forcibly moved (which is to say, you cannot use Lunge or Entrap to move them). Which means the strategy you have planned won't work.