Arctic Mafia (Game Thread)

[SullyMcGully]

Oh yeah, just real quick if you're wondering how I feel about Bart: probably just really cocky town early on, for which he is now paying the price. Not entirely OK with him but he doesn't have to be the lynch today. I'll take a look at Dunn later on. I also need to read RAD, Athena, and X(b)nad but I'm unfamiliar with their metas so I have a hard time there. 

@Mitsuru Kirijo You know Dunn a lot better than any of us, what's your take on him? What is he usually like as scum?

[RADicate]

Way to lazy to be feeling anything long winded atm so here's the tldr: jordan points town for meta reasons, unfortunately his responses didnt do much either way for my first impressions, if anything they knocked it down a bit. He's town because i genuinely don't feel like scum!xnad picks a fight with me right after entering the thread all things considered wrt me ripping scum!xnad apart on a pretty consistent basis. 

Continuing on @Magnificence Incarnate, you are making it sound like people are hard defending ichigo, which methinks is misrepresentitive. iirc i was the only one who put any level of townlove on the slot. And even my townlove was given with the caveat of i want more content (which there hasnt been as of yet) and me stating my inherent bias towards aggressive tones. Miss me with the ATE "oh i dont wanna be lynched for no reason" and misleading post tbh. 

[RADicate]

1 hour ago, SullyMcGully said:

Oh yeah, just real quick if you're wondering how I feel about Bart: probably just really cocky town early on, for which he is now paying the price. Not entirely OK with him but he doesn't have to be the lynch today. I'll take a look at Dunn later on. I also need to read RAD, Athena, and X(b)nad but I'm unfamiliar with their metas so I have a hard time there. 

@Mitsuru Kirijo You know Dunn a lot better than any of us, what's your take on him? What is he usually like as scum?

Hey sully! Ask me a question 

[RADicate]

17 hours ago, Magnificence Incarnate said:

@RADicate I've played with Dunn before,  weiner and I were scum buddies while Dunn was town.  This guy got flak on him for not doing anything but he was a lot more passive and insightful in his reads. This game he's being reactive but only to things mentioned about him and his arguments feel like tunnel vision to me which I could easily see scum doing. If you want to read more of dunn's town game then you should read Xsite, but that's a hugeass game to read. 

 

Also his argument against me isn't even good.  He starts arguing about how conviction =/= town read which is whatever but in rvs you're going to have to make some kinda read and vote somewhere to get somewhere?  Big deal,  he didn't vote Bartozio, it doesn't change the fact that he entered the thread with scum reading Bartozio as his sole content for that time?  Saying that it could be a knee-jerk reaction from town isn't very good imo because what are the other things that Dunn has done that make you think that he's being pro-town other than scum read the guy everyone itg has been screaming about(hint:that's not necessarily pro-town either). 

He hasnt done much to prove to me he is pro town, and i have acknowledged that. Too lazy to find the post but my townlean was with the caveat Dunn brought more to the table. He's probably back to nullish (again where my content?)now tbh, i was hoping he'd pick it up.

That aside the first part of this post: why wasnt this mentioned at all when you were making your initial case against Dunn? I wouldve happily accepted that as an arguement, it has a far better basis than your initial reason for lynching, and it feels like "oh no he called my case weak, lemme backtrack and add something else to it?" 

[Bluedoom]

Happy New year from my end everyone! Last post for me before I head to bed

 

@RADicate You asked me why I thought Dunn's actions were likely to be from scum hence I presented the meta, saying that I  did things by back checking and adding something else sounds dishonest to me since I wouldn't need to present meta if I wasn't asked, thus saying that I tried to make my case stronger to look better is false. I don't think my initial reason for lynching is terrible at all and you've yet to tell me why Dunn should sit at null instead of possible scum considering mafia benefit a lot from not voting and throwing shade on a slot that already has shade on it at that point of the game. I'm not budging from this position if you're unable to give a good counterargument. 

[RADicate]

2 minutes ago, Magnificence Incarnate said:

Happy New year from my end everyone! Last post for me before I head to bed

 

@RADicate You asked me why I thought Dunn's actions were likely to be from scum hence I presented the meta, saying that I  did things by back checking and adding something else sounds dishonest to me since I wouldn't need to present meta if I wasn't asked, thus saying that I tried to make my case stronger to look better is false. I don't think my initial reason for lynching is terrible at all and you've yet to tell me why Dunn should sit at null instead of possible scum considering mafia benefit a lot from not voting and throwing shade on a slot that already has shade on it at that point of the game. I'm not budging from this position if you're unable to give a good counterargument. 

Nooooooooooo sleepy marth..........  that being said i stand by your initial read being bad/nitpicky for reasons previously stated. Im considerably less critical of your meta arguement as opposed to the initial arguement (or maybe its better to say your meta arguement added a bit of context to what i percieved to be a weak initial arguement? eh.) That also being said im fully aware of the reasoning you presented meta and mostly made that arguement to put some more heat on you for the sake of i wanted to keep pressuring you. So for clarification's sake, i rescind that point (the whole you went back and added something else to your arguement to defend your read.) And he just hasnt done enough for me to get a solid read on him for anything beyond lol inactivity and lol aggressive tone. Nowhere did i say Dunn _should_ sit at null, im saying he does for me. Im pretty sure you have my motives here a mile and a half off the mark off the mark so let me lay them out: idc how you read dunn, whether you "budge" or not doesnt matter to me and im not going to try to suade you off of Dunn, because I dont care enough to do so. That being said, you explicitly stated you wanted to have banter with those pressuring/lynching you (half the reason i even bothered with this) then hopped offline ~~which is annoying but NAI because your timezone is wack~~. 

 

 

[Mitsuru Kirijo]

23 hours ago, weinerboy said:

I talked about this in the wall u didn't like which hurts my feelings and makes me cry but that's OK I shall soldi- pfftt who am I kidding we agree to disagree

Dang I wanted to see you cry at my feet >:(

4 more pages to go yay...

[SullyMcGully]

Alright, time for another quote wall.

After reading the entire game again, I feel a little bit more knowledgeable about some things. I'm going to let Bart off the hook for now, though I do have some serious annoyances with their slot and questions about their meta because apparently I don't even know how one of my own best friends plays NOC. I'll address those things later though. For now I have a beef with Dunn.

On 12/29/2018 at 11:17 PM, Ichigo said:

This train of thought is legit but I don't think it's scummy coming from Claire 

Oh dang, I forgot what this post was in response to. I think it was Soup? Pretty sure it was Soup. Anyway, if Dunn were to flip scum then I'd look at Soup as a potential buddy.

On 12/29/2018 at 11:20 PM, Ichigo said:

This player came into the thread with an agenda of going along with forming suspicion on Claire and extending it to another slot and trying to gain more echoing opinions

Strikes me as really scummy

BZZZ BZZZ that is the sound of a chainsaw starting. This post has been torn apart enough so far, but defending Claire and attacking Bartozio is definitely what Dunn came here to do. I really don't like Dunn's style, he posts like he expects a single sentence to carry all of the logic a normal player's paragraphs would. I understand that a lot of players (I suppose I myself am guilty of this) can be too wordy at times, but this is the opposite problem. 

On 12/29/2018 at 11:22 PM, Ichigo said:

Why does that make them town? When does town have strong conviction behind their posts when discussing multiple scumreads on page 3?

 

Seriously - how does "strong conviction behind their posts" make them more likely town? Can you explain this for me like I'm 5

This was an OK read when it came out and I agreed with it. However, Marth's posting has progressed. Dunn;s read on Marth needs to progress too. He can't just keep scumreading him based off of his first few posts.

On 12/30/2018 at 8:23 AM, Ichigo said:

Your post has me feeling worse about Magnificence incarnate than Bartozio now

Saying I'm chainsawing someone is whatever, I was just giving my opinion on something I felt was wrong and then pointing out that someone else had an agenda

And you'll be able to see plenty of me, we've got plenty of time

 

This is where Dunn starts to sheep my Marth case. All I did was point out some discrepancies I noticed. I didn't say Marth was scum. I find it scummy when a player sheeps a read by radicalizing it beyond the original creator's intentions. It gives them a framework and some logic with which to hunt their prey. They merely provide the bite.

He also promises more content in the lat paragraph. I don't feel like we've seen satisfactory content yet, though.

On 12/30/2018 at 8:38 AM, Ichigo said:

...Right, how does that make them town? Don't just explain what they're doing, explain why it's town.

Wanting to solve the game does not equal "and are more confident in what they're trying to do." - this isn't your first game of mafia, you've never seen a town player that was less than confident? You've never seen a scum player that carried themself with confidence? Where are you getting your information?

There are a lot of things wrong with this

First of all you say I fit the bill of someone making safe votes, yet I haven't voted anyone yet. This means that you probably didn't iso me, and just assumed that I must have voted somewhere.

Second of all,  according to you, town should want to be more proactive in their approach and solve the game, so why didn't you iso me? I'll argue that failing to iso me and instead voting me based off of something I said is instead reactive play.

Third, there was no 'consensus narrative' on Bart when I was posting, both in terms of where I was replying to the thread and really in general

What Dunn is saying here is that since Marth isn't perfectly well-informed, he's scummy. Shouldn't scum be better informed than town? Dunn bases his case against Marth here on rather nit-picky grounds.

On 12/30/2018 at 8:40 AM, Ichigo said:

No it wasn't

This is the kind of answer I hate from Dunn. Did he really expect Via to just take him at his word? It's a cheap answer which is perhaps too obvious for actual scum, but the way I see it, I'm almost inevitably going to end up voting for somebody who is doing a very bad job at not looking scummy.

On 12/30/2018 at 8:44 AM, Ichigo said:

Funny (Do I need to mention this is sarcasm?), but the agenda would be to get other players scumread, to get the snowball rolling, I think you understand where I'm coming from so acting like you're oblivious is not helpful

I think he doesn't feel coasty

Explain why Weiner doesn't feel coasty. Don't just contradict everything Via says. If you have reasoning behind your opinions, share them. If you don't, then it's very likely that you're scum.

7 hours ago, Ichigo said:

Your argument: "it was really towny"

 

My argument: "No it wasn't"

 

Not sure what else you want me to say, as you never explained anything yourself. It wasn't towny because It's something she does and would do as scum, because I've seen her play before

Yes, but could we get some details? And if you had even this much reasoning behind your original response to Via, why didn't you state it then? Why are you giving an almost deliberately small amount of information when Via obviously wants an in-depth explanation?

7 hours ago, Ichigo said:

Less sure on Bart, not a townread for me though, I don't care about your stance, I agreed with the following regarding magnificance:

"This post feels off. The bolded part lumps together two players who I feel have been different this game and acts like they're both doing the same thing. And Bart's posts at this point had been very bare-bones, only providing original content when provided. Bart's play up to this point should look scummy in a lot of ways, and people who think Bart is town should be addressing how despite how it looks, it isn't really scummy, instead of pretending there's nothing suspicious there."

And Sully/RADicate are towny

I've disowned this case. I explained why above. Do you still think it has merit? If so, explain why?

7 hours ago, Ichigo said:

Let me know when we start lynching people for reasons other than "they need to do more", I'll be on before deadline

Anti-town behavior...

1 hour ago, RADicate said:

Hey sully! Ask me a question 

RAD, did you know when you ask people to ask you questions instead of coming up with questions to ask them, it makes you look like scum? Could somebody who has played with RAD before let me know if he usually does this as town? I suppose RAD you can look at my Dunn case and give feedback.

[SullyMcGully]

As for Bartozio, I need some input. I'm noticing that he's been extremely rude and condescending this game, especially when he's defending himself. I know Bart as a friend and he isn't usually like this. So could those of you who've played with Bart more than I have tell me if he's normally this way and if it is at all alignment indicative? 

[RADicate]

1 minute ago, SullyMcGully said:

Alright, time for another quote wall.

After reading the entire game again, I feel a little bit more knowledgeable about some things. I'm going to let Bart off the hook for now, though I do have some serious annoyances with their slot and questions about their meta because apparently I don't even know how one of my own best friends plays NOC. I'll address those things later though. For now I have a beef with Dunn.

Oh dang, I forgot what this post was in response to. I think it was Soup? Pretty sure it was Soup. Anyway, if Dunn were to flip scum then I'd look at Soup as a potential buddy.

BZZZ BZZZ that is the sound of a chainsaw starting. This post has been torn apart enough so far, but defending Claire and attacking Bartozio is definitely what Dunn came here to do. I really don't like Dunn's style, he posts like he expects a single sentence to carry all of the logic a normal player's paragraphs would. I understand that a lot of players (I suppose I myself am guilty of this) can be too wordy at times, but this is the opposite problem. 

This was an OK read when it came out and I agreed with it. However, Marth's posting has progressed. Dunn;s read on Marth needs to progress too. He can't just keep scumreading him based off of his first few posts.

This is where Dunn starts to sheep my Marth case. All I did was point out some discrepancies I noticed. I didn't say Marth was scum. I find it scummy when a player sheeps a read by radicalizing it beyond the original creator's intentions. It gives them a framework and some logic with which to hunt their prey. They merely provide the bite.

He also promises more content in the lat paragraph. I don't feel like we've seen satisfactory content yet, though.

What Dunn is saying here is that since Marth isn't perfectly well-informed, he's scummy. Shouldn't scum be better informed than town? Dunn bases his case against Marth here on rather nit-picky grounds.

This is the kind of answer I hate from Dunn. Did he really expect Via to just take him at his word? It's a cheap answer which is perhaps too obvious for actual scum, but the way I see it, I'm almost inevitably going to end up voting for somebody who is doing a very bad job at not looking scummy.

Explain why Weiner doesn't feel coasty. Don't just contradict everything Via says. If you have reasoning behind your opinions, share them. If you don't, then it's very likely that you're scum.

Yes, but could we get some details? And if you had even this much reasoning behind your original response to Via, why didn't you state it then? Why are you giving an almost deliberately small amount of information when Via obviously wants an in-depth explanation?

I've disowned this case. I explained why above. Do you still think it has merit? If so, explain why?

Anti-town behavior...

RAD, did you know when you ask people to ask you questions instead of coming up with questions to ask them, it makes you look like scum? Could somebody who has played with RAD before let me know if he usually does this as town? I suppose RAD you can look at my Dunn case and give feedback.

I got lynched for doing this in the My Hero anon game (as town), so im not entirely unaware. That being said I've yet to find a more consistant conversation starter and one of my best ways to ascertain alignments is to simply hold a convo about the game with someone sooooooooo imma do it anyways. I'm heading to work rn, give me like 2 hours (i think DL is in 4 or 5) and i'll take a closer look at your dunn analysis (i only skimmed your post)

[SullyMcGully]

On reread, Weiner looks a bit wishy-washy. They haven't really committed to any of their reads. And they've pretty much ignored Dunn with like one exception. I feel like with the logic they've been using this game, they should be more interested in Dunn's slot.

[Mitsuru Kirijo]

22 hours ago, Bartozio said:

Okay, basicly two scenarios:

A: I'm scum as you say, and I came up with the perfect excuse for my scummy actions.

B: I'm town, I did strange stuff, but I have a good reason for doing it (and didn't give it until asked because I thought it was obvious I did it because of said reason).

Why is scenario A more likely to you? I know scenario A is more likely to you, but why?

Because Point 1 and 2 when you were explaining still barely make any sense to me even if we assume that you’re telling the truth on point 3. It’s because if I take out that point I’d still have a sr on you.

The rest of this page is mostly weiner and Athena shockingly Athena still gives me empty vibes. Like I get no feeling of towny or scummy from the posts besides the ones I already talked about 

[SullyMcGully]

As for Bartozio vs. Claire, I feel like it's a distraction and Bartozio especially needs to become less focused on his own defense and more focused on reading others. Is Bart still scumreading Claire? I feel like it's time to let that whole thing go, they're still fighting over something that's ancient history now. There are better reads to pursue, and neither of them have substantial wagons, so they could use to be less defense-focused.

[SullyMcGully]

Claire, my sweet angel! My beloved muse! Oh, dear goddess that granteth the ability to tell night from day and scum from town, will you not bless me with your insight regarding your dear friend, here known as Ichigo, sometimes known as Dunn, who is most assuredly cute if only from having been in your presence, and fill my mind with understanding of how his current behavior stands in the light of his meta?

(Please give me your thoughts on Dunn, Claire.)

[SullyMcGully]

Unvote

Vote: @Ichigo

I'm going to work. DL is at 9, right? I'll be back before then.

[Mitsuru Kirijo]

19 hours ago, Magnificence Incarnate said:

@Mitsuru Kirijo Bart's meta is that he gets scapegoated every rvs for trying to do something and kinda explains things too much in detail so people don't like that and lynch him.  I don't really like the cases on him mostly cuz they focus on what he did during his first few posts in the game instead of after because I think his explanations are good. I also think scum!Bart just legit flakes instead of spending post after post trying to argue with people and I say this as someone who has observed his scum play in a few games as town/mod. So unless someone is willing to give me a convincing case that changes my mind I'm unlikely to change my read here. 

 

Ftr I think your votes are pure and I like your read on Jordan especially the part about self meta, didn't want to push it because I don't know how reliable that is to get a read on Jordan. What do you think of my read on him and his take on Bartozio? 

I guess if this is something he does every single game and it isn’t this one occurrence that would lower my scumread on him quite a bit. Not all the way but by a bit. I don’t really agree with your scum Bart metaish because it seems like Bart would be smart enough to know that and would avoid doing so *shrug*
I understand your Jordan read I want to see Jordan post more. He’s for sure the most LHF/easy push in the game if you ask me at the moment so I want to just see more from the guy. His stance on bart is...somewhat unique.  I like his tone in a lot of his posts it was just that 1 post that stuck out to me like ‘what the fuck is that.’
 

10 hours ago, XnadrojX said:

I... wasn't serious about it? I was making a joke/threatening RAD to give me a pass.

 

Are you the kind of person who scumreads anything you can't townread? Because that's the feeling you give off wrt your weinerboy read rn, "They don't make me townread them, so they're a scumread".

15 hours ago, SullyMcGully said:

 

(Ignore the sully part)

I suppose I can understand this being a joke. Also no I am not a person to do that. Jester is null for example. The reason why I don’t have a lot of null reads is I know basically the whole playerlist here and I have certain expectations for them and if they don’t meet them it’s likely they’re towny or scummy depending on the person.

[Mitsuru Kirijo]

3 hours ago, SullyMcGully said:

Oh yeah, just real quick if you're wondering how I feel about Bart: probably just really cocky town early on, for which he is now paying the price. Not entirely OK with him but he doesn't have to be the lynch today. I'll take a look at Dunn later on. I also need to read RAD, Athena, and X(b)nad but I'm unfamiliar with their metas so I have a hard time there. 

@Mitsuru Kirijo You know Dunn a lot better than any of us, what's your take on him? What is he usually like as scum?

I can't give a confident read on dunn because he's doing a tell he does as scum and a tell he does as town. (Seems I'll have to rethink those tells)
If I had a gun to my head I'd say town? Not my 'oh my god if you lynch him you're dumb' but town.
I don't  want to lynch manga or Dunn today  

[SullyMcGully]

3 minutes ago, Mitsuru Kirijo said:

I can't give a confident read on dunn because he's doing a tell he does as scum and a tell he does as town. (Seems I'll have to rethink those tells)
If I had a gun to my head I'd say town? Not my 'oh my god if you lynch him you're dumb' but town.
I don't  want to lynch manga or Dunn today  

OK well then whenever you get to my big quotewall with my Dunn read, I'll need you to tell me exactly what you think I'm wrong about if you're going to convince me not to lynch Dunn.

[Mystic Arcanum]

@Kaif has subbed in for Ampharos.

[Mitsuru Kirijo]

1 minute ago, SullyMcGully said:

OK well then whenever you get to my big quotewall with my Dunn read, I'll need you to tell me exactly what you think I'm wrong about if you're going to convince me not to lynch Dunn.

No offense but your big case wall isn't really anything big? Like was that suppose to be a damning case on him or something. (serious question)
 

[Mystic Arcanum]

Day 1: Automated Votals from #300 to #370

Magnificence Incarnate (4): weinerboy, RADicate, Vi-astra, Ichigo
Ichigo (4): Magnificence Incarnate, Athena_57, Bartozio, Jester's Gestures
RADicate (2): Kaif, XnadrojX
Bartozio (1): Sully McGully
weinerboy (1): Mitsuru Kirijo
Not voting (1): Shinori

Phase ends in 4h48m. Hammer at 8.

Vote history:

Vi-astra (2): Unvote -> Magnificence Incarnate

Ichigo (1): Magnificence Incarnate

Jester's Gestures (1): Ichigo

<Beta v2.0.4>

[Percivalé]

man I've gotten really lazy and lost motivation to play this game already but I'll make an attempt to catch back up, when is deadline?

[Percivalé]

oh that answered my question 

[Percivalé]

##unvote

 

I dont know about this anymore who are we lynching today 

[sup a]

Jester's posts didn't wow me and my own worries of Refa have heightened, but I don't think this is a lynch I can fight for therefore I'm fine with compromising. Ichigo is still pretty null to me but I digress, I've been mulling things over.