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Do you think Holy War remake will use Three Houses' gameplay and graphics engine?


Spatha
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When I first saw the trailer for Three Houses, I felt like it took inspiration from the Jugdral Series, especially regarding the World Map and the aesthetics of the three characters (Edelgard would fit in as a noble of Grannvale for instance, her skill in axes would make her a House Dozel noble).

 

But the biggest is the fact that in Three Houses, you can actually see that the heroes are commanding a small squadron of soldiers.

I always imagine Sigurd and his party to be bigger than what is shown in-game, especially since they managed to conquer 2 full-strength countries by themselves.

Not to mention this series of interviews about Holy War's development.

https://serenesforest.net/2016/06/20/making-of-fire-emblem-genealogy-of-changes/#more-32331

"One radical idea was for the battle system to incorporate squad-based gameplay. Instead of moving single units on the map, like in typical Fire Emblem games, players would move units in squads of ten. This has direct parallels to the Wars series (also developed by Intelligent Systems), which features 10-men squads.

If I remember correctly, you would move people in groups of ten in that game. […] You would move a group on the world map, and if you encountered the enemy, a battle would begin. It was going to be a squad-based game. But, in the end, we went back to the “FE” style map and it became the “Holy War” we know."

Edited by Spatha
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I don't see IS adapting something as radical as squads for a Genealogy remake. Improving the Skill lineup and making plenty of other improvements and tweaks yes, but nothing so fundamental. Particularly when the game has never come aboard and the international audience might not want a full-fledged reimagining.

See SoV- many tweaks and changes were made, but many of its cooky and core aspects were left alone. If IS keeps the same mindset for Shin Seisen no Keifu, then there is no possible way that they'd add squads. Then again, the mindset could be different, but I can't say exactly what the mindset for the other remakes- Shadow Dragon and New Mystery, were. Note that all three remakes so far have, love it or hate it, kept the original map design, so big green in all likelihood will be coming back. I just hope IS isn't such a dunderhead and leave out the Rescue command, Archanea would've benefitted from it, and Jugdral would the same.

 

As for using the game's actual programming engine, why yes. A remake is, unless you really devote everything to it, like perhaps a Resident Evil remake, or I could see FFVII Remake, not worth the cost of developing a brand new game engine. If you can borrow an old engine without it seriously compromising the game's quality, why would you not? And certainly, IS probably wants to use its Switch engine as much as it can, not just for 3H, it would want to bring it to a hypothetical FE4 and maybe 5 remakes, and even more possibly an FE Switch 2. Engines are flexible, I heard Wind Waker and Twilight Princess run on the same one, as did Wario Land 4 and Metroid Fusion (jewel pieces can be found in MF's data).

Edited by Interdimensional Observer
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14 minutes ago, Spatha said:

When I first saw the trailer for Three Houses, I felt like it took inspiration from the Jugdral Series, especially regarding the World Map and the aesthetics of the three characters (Edelgard would fit in as a noble of Grannvale for instance, her skill in axe would make her House Dozel noble).

This is so weird to read considering Lachesis is the only female character in Genealogy of the Holy War who can wield Axes at any point, and even then only after she becomes a Master Knight, which can wield almost anything.

As for the Three Houses engine being used for a Genealogy of the Holy War remake...  It could work.  Maybe.  More likely than not it would.

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29 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I don't see IS adapting something as radical as squads for a Genealogy remake. Improving the Skill lineup and making plenty of other improvements and tweaks yes, but nothing so fundamental. Particularly when the game has never come aboard and the international audience might not want a full-fledged reimagining.

See SoV- many tweaks and changes were made, but many of its cooky and core aspects were left alone. If IS keeps the same mindset for Shin Seisen no Keifu, then there is no possible way that they'd add squads. Then again, the mindset could be different, but I can't say exactly what the mindset for the other remakes- Shadow Dragon and New Mystery, were. Note that all three remakes so far have, love it or hate it, kept the original map design, so big green in all likelihood will be coming back. I just hope IS isn't such a dunderhead and leave out the Rescue command, Archanea would've benefitted from it, and Jugdral would the same.

 

As for using the game's actual programming engine, why yes. A remake is, unless you really devote everything to it, like perhaps a Resident Evil remake, or I could see FFVII Remake, not worth the cost of developing a brand new game engine. If you can borrow an old engine without it seriously compromising the game's quality, why would you not? And certainly, IS probably wants to use its Switch engine as much as it can, not just for 3H, it would want to bring it to a hypothetical FE4 and maybe 5 remakes, and even more possibly an FE Switch 2. Engines are flexible, I heard Wind Waker and Twilight Princess run on the same one, as did Wario Land 4 and Metroid Fusion (jewel pieces can be found in MF's data).

The squads can be just an aesthetic effect similar to Advance Wars. The number of soldiers displayed in the squad represents the characters' HP.

Ex: You have Sigurd attacking a bandit and then it zooms to Sigurd leading a squad of cavalry to kill off most of the bandits.

I'll be just like playing thr original SNES game but with an improved graphics engine and a much more polished gameplay experience.

Also, the squads are perfect fit for a vast continent-wide saga as Holy War. It would be dumb for IS to not remake Holy War like that after Three Houses.

Edited by Spatha
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Um... Probably not! Also, I think it's waaaaaaay too early to be discussing this, with how little we know of Three Houses...

Edited by Shadow Mir
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I do like to see the Judgral remakes on the Nintendo Switch since Nintendo 3DS is definitely looks like it's getting less new games as of right now. I totally think Intelligent Systems should remake both Genealogy of the Holy War and Thracia 776 together, I definitely think they definitely might use the same graphics and gameplay engine from Three Houses. (I definitely think Thracia 776 remake will might come as a DLC similar to like how IS did with Fates since I think Genealogy of the Holy War only has 12 Chapters since they have Giant Size Maps, I don't know if they could add Gaiden/Paralogue Chapters since they haven't add it in Echoes: Shadows of Valentia)

I definitely think they're probably going back change the skill mechanics from Combat Arts to RNG Skills since Genealogy of the Holy War was the first game introduced Skills in the franchise.

Edited by King Marth 64
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6 minutes ago, Spatha said:

The squads can be just an aesthetic effect similar to Advance Wars. The number of soldiers displayed in the squad represents the characters' HP.

Ex: You have Sigurd attacking a bandit and then it zooms to Sigurd leading a squad of cavalry to kill off most of the bandits.

 

To be fair, we don't really know anything about squads will work in FE3H yet.

Although treating them wholly as an aesthetic, without any gameplay aspects of it like those found like in FE3H, it'd work perhaps in mosts cases, but not all. Obviously it wouldn't be there in the arena. And speaking of littlest nitpicks, enemy Ayra and NPC Byron probably wouldn't make sense. Byron I believe is explicitly stated to have lost his entire Ritter group, and Ayra is being forced to fight against her will.

It might also distract from one or two bosses, Seliph vs. Arvis would definitely want to ditch the cannon fodder. Heck, if anyone has a Holy Weapon equipped, I'd think they should fight alone aesthetically, let the broken one-man army power of a Crusader be on full display.

 

3 minutes ago, King Marth 64 said:

(I definitely think Thracia 776 remake will might come as a DLC similar to like how IS did with Fates 

That sounds really weird to me. Thracia is a full-length game with zero map recycling, and near-zero character reuse. And while the Fates set shares the same gameplay, Genealogy and Thracia are very different beasts. It'd be like having CQ play like Radiant Dawn, and BR like FE6.

 

7 minutes ago, King Marth 64 said:

I don't know if they could add Gaiden/Paralogue Chapters since they haven't add it in Echoes: Shadows of Valentia

Genealogy is probably the game least suited for Gaidens/Paralogues. How do you fit these into country-spanning battles were there is no break between the conquest of each castle? And once you've conquered an entire country, well who is there left to fight for a gaiden? A surviving little pocket of baddies in the liberated territory? A minor skirmish in the next place you'll be conquering before the next Holy War really begins? Perhaps a little fight along a border where there isn't a Holy War in the works?

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8 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

That sounds really weird to me. Thracia is a full-length game with zero map recycling, and near-zero character reuse. And while the Fates set shares the same gameplay, Genealogy and Thracia are very different beasts. It'd be like having CQ play like Radiant Dawn, and BR like FE6.

I think you do forget that New Mystery of the Emblem does use some graphics and gameplay elements from Shadow Dragon. I do think Intelligent Systems could combine the same graphics and gameplay elements for both of the Judgral remakes since Thracia 776 is an interquel takes place between Gen 1 and Gen 2 of Genealogy of the Holy War.

We do know Consoles Games now a days are kinda putting a lot of development time and we definitely don't know when exactly is the Nintendo Switch going to be discontinued in the future.

Edited by King Marth 64
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13 minutes ago, King Marth 64 said:

I think you do forget that New Mystery of the Emblem does use some graphics and gameplay elements from Shadow Dragon. I do think they can combine the same graphics and gameplay elements for both of the Judgral remakes since Thracia 776 is an interquel takes place between Gen 1 and Gen 2 of Genealogy of the Holy War.

Capturing, Fog of War, and Stamina are certainly not showing up in a Genealogy remake, nor individualized funds for T776R. Whether they drop the FE4 level 30 cap for 20/20 and lower promotion gains, and add to Thracia promoted stat caps above 20 are another story. Could happen, but could not.

 

Also, it'd be a little demeaning to Thracia if it was just DLC for Genealogy. Bundling them is not a bad idea, but they shouldn't be packaged onto the same card, nor share an icon in the Switch menu.

Edited by Interdimensional Observer
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21 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

To be fair, we don't really know anything about squads will work in FE3H yet.

Although treating them wholly as an aesthetic, without any gameplay aspects of it like those found like in FE3H, it'd work perhaps in mosts cases, but not all. Obviously it wouldn't be there in the arena. And speaking of littlest nitpicks, enemy Ayra and NPC Byron probably wouldn't make sense. Byron I believe is explicitly stated to have lost his entire Ritter group, and Ayra is being forced to fight against her will.

It might also distract from one or two bosses, Seliph vs. Arvis would definitely want to ditch the cannon fodder. Heck, if anyone has a Holy Weapon equipped, I'd think they should fight alone aesthetically, let the broken one-man army power of a Crusader be on full display.

In Byron's case, and the Arena battles yes.

In Ayra's, They could change the plot so that she could have a small retinue of myrmidon follwers to help her in her quest to protect Shanan.

2. In the case of Arvis and Seliph, picture this.

Both of them are fighting 1-on-1, evading and striking each other while their cannon fodder are fighting amongst themselves.

3. They could just easily show the Holy Weapon user attacking the enemy first with a powerful attack then ordering their troops to attack what remains of the enemy.

Ex: Sigurd uses Tryfing to cut his through an enemy army, allowing an opening in which his troops can take advantage.

Edited by Spatha
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I've thought about this, and I think the TH style of squad commanding would fit perfectly with Genealogy. It's the largest conflict in the whole franchise, yet you have one of the smallest casts. Everyone commanding a squad would make much more sense.

I'm going purely on aesthetics, I have no idea how the actual mechanics will work out, of course.

Edited by Slumber
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I do think they would use the same engine. I don't see why not.

As for squards, I think they probably should add it some characters in the background for aethestic purposes. I'm not sure how it would do as a new mechanic. Genealogy had enough mechanical issues that should take priority before adding new ones.

2 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Genealogy is probably the game least suited for Gaidens/Paralogues. How do you fit these into country-spanning battles were there is no break between the conquest of each castle? And once you've conquered an entire country, well who is there left to fight for a gaiden? A surviving little pocket of baddies in the liberated territory? A minor skirmish in the next place you'll be conquering before the next Holy War really begins? Perhaps a little fight along a border where there isn't a Holy War in the works?

I'm not sure if you could call it Gaidens, but some interesting battles to have would be the battleground between Issach and Grandbell, and the characters we use will be characters like Byron and company. 

They could also add a level where Ares conquers Agustria and unites it under his name. Can also star Delmud/Tristan and any possible wives they may have. Tbh, Tristan & Janne can appear regardless if Delmud is there or not, since all of the subs should exist anyways.

3 hours ago, King Marth 64 said:

I do like to see the Judgral remakes on the Nintendo Switch since Nintendo 3DS is definitely looks like it's getting less new games as of right now. I totally think Intelligent Systems should remake both Genealogy of the Holy War and Thracia 776 together, I definitely think they definitely might use the same graphics and gameplay engine from Three Houses. (I definitely think Thracia 776 remake will might come as a DLC similar to like how IS did with Fates since I think Genealogy of the Holy War only has 12 Chapters since they have Giant Size Maps, I don't know if they could add Gaiden/Paralogue Chapters since they haven't add it in Echoes: Shadows of Valentia)

I definitely think they're probably going back change the skill mechanics from Combat Arts to RNG Skills since Genealogy of the Holy War was the first game introduced Skills in the franchise.

I don't like the idea of them being together. They're two games that are vastly different in gameplay mechanics. Going from Gen 1 to Thracia would be jarring to the player. Plus, it makes Leaf, Finn's and Nanna's inclusion a bit weird. It would be weird to go to a giant map than to a small one that features completely different characters, since Thracia spans over a couple of Genealogy chapters. Plus it would be too long. Genealogy, on paper, sounds short based on the number of chapters. But let me tell you something, it's not. It may not be the longest game, but it's definitely not a short game. Thracia 776 is even longer, IIRC. There is such a thing as too long of a game. You don't want players to be burnt out before they finish.

In a later statement you compared it to FE3 which had 2 books. That only worked because the gameplay between Shadow Dragon and Mystery weren't too different, if at all. Meanwhile, Genealogy doesn't have a kidnapping system, hit rates for staves, movement stars, etc. and Thracia 776 doesn't have individual wallets, holy blood, arena leveling system, etc. 

Yes, they do take place in the same time, which would make them great for a bundle purchase for the holidays, but they shouldn't be in the same game together, imo. It would be too jarring and the reviews will take the piss out of it.

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8 hours ago, Dandy Druid said:

I'm not sure if you could call it Gaidens, but some interesting battles to have would be the battleground between Issach and Grandbell, and the characters we use will be characters like Byron and company. 

This I have been wholly approving of, along the lines of Archanea Chronicles in NM, Hidden Truths and HoF in Fates, and RotD in SoV.

I even assembled a four part outline of what that could possibly look like some time ago:

Spoiler

Battle 1- The Crossing of Yied Desert. (All fights are played from the Grannvalian side b/c more named characters.)

  • Setting out from Velthomer, Edda, or Darna, the Grannvalian Army must cross the Yied Desert to reach Issach. Knowing Grannvale will be nearly unstoppable once it arrives in Issach, Marricle intends to assault and harass them as much as he can while the massive force is slogged down in the desert sands. All in hopes whittling down the Grannvalian force significantly and ideally send them retreating before they reach Issach. Grannvale must beware, Issach has hired Silessan and Thracian mercenaries to strike from the skies unimpeded! Defend and escort the convoy/certain NPCs!

Battle 2- Taking Issach.

  • While Lord Ring and his son Andrey are sent against Tirnanog to Issach's north, the main force consisting of everyone else approach Castle Rivough. Mariccle orders the castle to hold, while sending a pincer attack from Sophara and Castle Issach. Take Rivough quickly, defend it, and then take one of Sophara and Issach.

Battle 3- The Fall of Issach

  • Grannvale having seized Sophara or Castle Issach, and Tirnanog offscreen, Mariccle chooses to hold out in Ganeishire and fight to the end. Duke Byron's candid proposals for a just surrender for Mariccle, whom he finds a noble soul, have been deflected by Reptor and Lombard, who stole Prince Kurth's opinion for that moment. Brandishing Balmung, Marricle fights like a man with nothing to lose, slay him and end Issach's resistance to Grannvalian will and power!

Battle 4- Calamity in Issach

  • Byron is saddened by the death of Prince Mariccle, but finds solace in this terrible campaign having reached its end. As Prince Kurth prepares to leave Issach, with Byron, entrusted with the temporary occupation and reestablishment of authority in Issach, saying his farewells to the Prince, the unthinkable happens. Prince Kurth is assassinated, Duke Byron finds himself blamed for the act that very morning after the murder! Lombard and Reptor, as if by planning, move in to arrest Byron by force. But Byron will not let himself be caught! Byron decides to flee to Tirnanog, where Duke Ring his dear friend is, he will believe him and stand by him against these false charges. But alas! Ring is then murdered by Andrey his son as he notices what is happening to Byron. Nonetheless, Byron fights on and plows his way to Tirnanog knowing Grannvalian forces are fewest there. Retreat to Tirnanog and defeat all that stands in your way! Along the way and at the destination, the Issachans soldiers who survived Marricle's defeat come to Byron's side, having heard as Byron has that Sigurd son of Byron protects the heir to Issach Prince Shannan and his aunt Princess Ayra to Behalla's dismay. Thus, the Issach people agree to defend Byron and shelter him at all costs until at last he can reunite with his son and then hopefully restore Issach to its proper glory.

 

9 hours ago, Dandy Druid said:

They could also add a level where Ares conquers Agustria and unites it under his name. Can also star Delmud/Tristan and any possible wives they may have.

Apparently a line at the start of the final chapter goes something like:

"At long last, the liberation army neared the final stage of their journey.
The army’s presence continued to instill courage in those still suffering under the empire’s rule, and civilians all over Jugdral rose in revolt.

Silesia was the first to return to the people’s control.

Shortly thereafter, the wave spread to Agustria, spurring the masses to rise and take up arms."

 

So in other words it all happened offscreen apart from Seliph's crew after Miletos was freed. But yeah, I can see this being changed.

Although it might sound a little weird given C10 ends with Seliph establishing a toehold in Grannvale itself and surrounded on three sides by evil dukedoms, delaying the final battle chronologically long enough so Seliph can send detachments to aid in the liberation of Issach and Silesse could possibly work. Just say Seliph and Julius are taking the time to make absolutely sure all is in order for the last holy war.

The issue with Silesse is who spearheads the effort if Lewyn never had a kid, and how would the variable daughter and son in the lead role even if born be handled? Of course, Lewyn is still around in Gen 2, albeit now as Forseti-Lewyn. Perhaps his nonattached Forseti side could permit his Lewyn Silesse-loving side take the lead for a little while. I'm assuming Lewyn didn't totally become a dragon's vessel after his resurrection- that Forseti let him be a father and husband and king for a time, until the time for renewed holy war came closer.

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2 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

This I have been wholly approving of, along the lines of Archanea Chronicles in NM, Hidden Truths and HoF in Fates, and RotD in SoV.

I even assembled a four part outline of what that could possibly look like some time ago:

  Hide contents

Battle 1- The Crossing of Yied Desert. (All fights are played from the Grannvalian side b/c more named characters.)

  • Setting out from Velthomer, Edda, or Darna, the Grannvalian Army must cross the Yied Desert to reach Issach. Knowing Grannvale will be nearly unstoppable once it arrives in Issach, Marricle intends to assault and harass them as much as he can while the massive force is slogged down in the desert sands. All in hopes whittling down the Grannvalian force significantly and ideally send them retreating before they reach Issach. Grannvale must beware, Issach has hired Silessan and Thracian mercenaries to strike from the skies unimpeded! Defend and escort the convoy/certain NPCs!

Battle 2- Taking Issach.

  • While Lord Ring and his son Andrey are sent against Tirnanog to Issach's north, the main force consisting of everyone else approach Castle Rivough. Mariccle orders the castle to hold, while sending a pincer attack from Sophara and Castle Issach. Take Rivough quickly, defend it, and then take one of Sophara and Issach.

Battle 3- The Fall of Issach

  • Grannvale having seized Sophara or Castle Issach, and Tirnanog offscreen, Mariccle chooses to hold out in Ganeishire and fight to the end. Duke Byron's candid proposals for a just surrender for Mariccle, whom he finds a noble soul, have been deflected by Reptor and Lombard, who stole Prince Kurth's opinion for that moment. Brandishing Balmung, Marricle fights like a man with nothing to lose, slay him and end Issach's resistance to Grannvalian will and power!

Battle 4- Calamity in Issach

  • Byron is saddened by the death of Prince Mariccle, but finds solace in this terrible campaign having reached its end. As Prince Kurth prepares to leave Issach, with Byron, entrusted with the temporary occupation and reestablishment of authority in Issach, saying his farewells to the Prince, the unthinkable happens. Prince Kurth is assassinated, Duke Byron finds himself blamed for the act that very morning after the murder! Lombard and Reptor, as if by planning, move in to arrest Byron by force. But Byron will not let himself be caught! Byron decides to flee to Tirnanog, where Duke Ring his dear friend is, he will believe him and stand by him against these false charges. But alas! Ring is then murdered by Andrey his son as he notices what is happening to Byron. Nonetheless, Byron fights on and plows his way to Tirnanog knowing Grannvalian forces are fewest there. Retreat to Tirnanog and defeat all that stands in your way! Along the way and at the destination, the Issachans soldiers who survived Marricle's defeat come to Byron's side, having heard as Byron has that Sigurd son of Byron protects the heir to Issach Prince Shannan and his aunt Princess Ayra to Behalla's dismay. Thus, the Issach people agree to defend Byron and shelter him at all costs until at last he can reunite with his son and then hopefully restore Issach to its proper glory.

 

Apparently a line at the start of the final chapter goes something like:

"At long last, the liberation army neared the final stage of their journey.
The army’s presence continued to instill courage in those still suffering under the empire’s rule, and civilians all over Jugdral rose in revolt.

Silesia was the first to return to the people’s control.

Shortly thereafter, the wave spread to Agustria, spurring the masses to rise and take up arms."

 

So in other words it all happened offscreen apart from Seliph's crew after Miletos was freed. But yeah, I can see this being changed.

Although it might sound a little weird given C10 ends with Seliph establishing a toehold in Grannvale itself and surrounded on three sides by evil dukedoms, delaying the final battle chronologically long enough so Seliph can send detachments to aid in the liberation of Issach and Silesse could possibly work. Just say Seliph and Julius are taking the time to make absolutely sure all is in order for the last holy war.

The issue with Silesse is who spearheads the effort if Lewyn never had a kid, and how would the variable daughter and son in the lead role even if born be handled? Of course, Lewyn is still around in Gen 2, albeit now as Forseti-Lewyn. Perhaps his nonattached Forseti side could permit his Lewyn Silesse-loving side take the lead for a little while. I'm assuming Lewyn didn't totally become a dragon's vessel after his resurrection- that Forseti let him be a father and husband and king for a time, until the time for renewed holy war came closer.

I would love those prequel chapters. It would really give the game as a whole more context. I wonder where Ayra and Prince Shannan would be in those chapters. It would be cool to see a scene with them fleeing.

As for Silesia and Agustria- Silesia is definitely weird if Lewyn doesn't have any children. I guess it could be Hawk and Femina? Although we don't know their backstory, maybe it could be written that Hawk was the son of a noble or something. Maybe even Mahnya's son.

And for Agustria, maybe I misinterpreted or the translation was worded funny, but I know Ares did talk about having to "calm down" Agustria or something in his ending. I would think he would have to earn the people's favor/attention to become king.

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15 hours ago, King Marth 64 said:

I definitely think Thracia 776 remake will might come as a DLC similar to like how IS did with Fates

Okay, what possesses you to think this way? Because they don't even compare. Fates' 3 games all have the same core gameplay and mechanics, which is not true of Genealogy and Thracia. And that's ignoring how very few characters are shared between the two games.

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18 hours ago, Spatha said:

In Byron's case, and the Arena battles yes.

In Ayra's, They could change the plot so that she could have a small retinue of myrmidon follwers to help her in her quest to protect Shanan.

2. In the case of Arvis and Seliph, picture this.

Both of them are fighting 1-on-1, evading and striking each other while their cannon fodder are fighting amongst themselves.

3. They could just easily show the Holy Weapon user attacking the enemy first with a powerful attack then ordering their troops to attack what remains of the enemy.

Ex: Sigurd uses Tryfing to cut his through an enemy army, allowing an opening in which his troops can take advantage.

Ayra fights against her will does not mean that Kinbois did not send his men to keep an eye for her, so maybe she leads a small squad of brigands.

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