New Heroes: Rulers Of The Laguz

[Dandy Druid]

31 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Oh dear, IS is burning through their dancers really fast.

Not really. We still have Phina, Laylea, Lara, Larum, Elphin, Nils, Tethys, and Rafiel have yet to be in the game. If they wanted, they could put Lewyn and Homer into a Performing Arts 2.0. They could also use Coirpre and Ewan because they're little brothers of dancers. Plus, Three Houses may also have a dancer/bard to use. If you want to get real into it, they could make a Faye alt as a staff unit with the Again Spell.

It just feels like burning through dancers because we just got 2 and they weren't either Azura or Olivia.

[XRay]

I wish they released Null Distant/Close Counter at the same time as Null C-Disrupt. You can always deal with cancer Player Phase units by simply hitting them first, whereas cancer Enemy Phase units cannot be safely dealt with on either phase until Firesweep came along.

Edited January 9, 2019 by XRay

[Ice Dragon]

2 minutes ago, Dandy Druid said:

Not really. We still have Phina, Laylea, Lara, Larum, Elphin, Nils, Tethys, and Rafiel have yet to be in the game.

"Burning through" things means the rate that they're coming out is fast, not that the number remaining is small, even if it really is.

That said, Laylea is unlikely to get in anytime soon since she's a substitute, and Lewyn and Homer are unlikely to ever be given the ability to dance because "Bard" is simply the name of the wind mage class in their respective games and predates the first Bard refresher class. The Wyvern Lord class doesn't somehow make the unit a Lord, so there's no good reason the Jugdral Bard class should make the unit a refresher.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I don't mind the influx of dancers in this case because it's the rare instance of dancers being in the normal summoning pool.

[Mercakete]

Ah, we're talking refreshers now, eh? Well, the unit doesn't have to actually be a singer/dancer to be a refresher, either (see Hoshidan Summer units.) IS just does what they want.

[Ice Dragon]

1 minute ago, Mercakete said:

Ah, we're talking refreshers now, eh? Well, the unit doesn't have to actually be a singer/dancer to be a refresher, either (see Hoshidan Summer units.) IS just does what they want.

For seasonals only, though.

[Dandy Druid]

1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said:

"Burning through" things means the rate that they're coming out is fast, not that the number remaining is small, even if it really is.

That said, Laylea is unlikely to get in anytime soon since she's a substitute, and Lewyn and Homer are unlikely to ever be given the ability to dance because "Bard" is simply the name of the wind mage class in their respective games and predates the first Bard refresher class. The Wyvern Lord class doesn't somehow make the unit a Lord, so there's no good reason the Jugdral Bard class should make the unit a refresher.

I was thinking they could make Lewyn and Homer "refresh" units for something like Performing Arts 2.0. Shigure and Inigo couldn't dance in their original games, but due to their affinity for music, IS was able to come up with alts for them. Lewyn even plays a lyre, so it's not too farfetched to give him one for a seasonal banner. Homer could sing as well. If Inigo and Shigure could get a seasonal alt, I wouldn't say it's out of the realm of possibility. Then again, Jugdral has yet to have an alt so \_(o.o)_/

Hell, if they really were basing something like PA on support conversations, they could just go the funny route and have Garett and Soleil be the stars of the banner.

[Sunwoo]

But those guys aren't canonically dancers, and seasonal units have never been demoted.

I'm talking about dancers in canon, that they can add to normal banners and possibly demote. EDIT: At this point, they really should cut back on alts unless they're those seasonal banners we can't get rid of.

Edited January 9, 2019 by Sunwoo

[Dandy Druid]

12 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

But those guys aren't canonically dancers, and seasonal units have never been demoted.

I'm talking about dancers in canon, that they can add to normal banners and possibly demote. EDIT: At this point, they really should cut back on alts unless they're those seasonal banners we can't get rid of.

Neither are Inigo and Shigure, yet they still got a refresher alt.

I was saying that Lewyn and Homer could potentially be starred in a seasonal banner like Inigo and Shigure were.

[redlight]

6 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

But those guys aren't canonically dancers, and seasonal units have never been demoted.

I'm talking about dancers in canon, that they can add to normal banners and possibly demote. EDIT: At this point, they really should cut back on alts unless they're those seasonal banners we can't get rid of.

FGO only has summer seasonals and it's doing just fine, but I'd doubt IS would do that. Cutting down powercreep would be a nice start. FGOs new SSR servants are usually "just good". There's also no SI so every servent is unique for better or worse. Broken ones are like a few a year. And the older ones get strengthening quests to buff skills or their NP if DW wants to entice people to summon for older servants

1 minute ago, Dandy Druid said:

Neither are Inigo and Shigure, yet they still got a refresher alt.

I was saying that Lewyn and Homer could potentially be starred in a seasonal banner like Inigo and Shigure were.

Both's mom's are refreshers and they dabble in the skill that their mother's are potent at. Bard is literally a glass cannon class. Might as well make troubadours refreshers as well bcs of their original meaning

[Dandy Druid]

1 minute ago, redlight said:

Both's mom's are refreshers and they dabble in the skill that their mother's are potent at. Bard is literally a glass cannon class. Might as well make troubadours refreshers as well bcs of their original meaning

Yes, but Shigure and Inigo had an interest in the arts as well. It wasn't just because their mothers were refreshers, but it fit the characters as well.

Lewyn and Homer also have an affinity for music, that's all I'm saying. I wouldn't be saying this if they didn't. Lewyn can play the harp/lyre (Silvia mentions him playing while she dances IIRC and he's featured with an instrument in some official art) meanwhile Homer's ending talks about how he sang about Leif's exploits.

I must not be wording my posts well enough because I seem to be causing a lot of misunderstanding with what I was trying to say. All I was saying is that there could be more refreshers added to the game outside of the strictly refreshing mechanic units. Then I used Inigo and Shigure as my example of how they could do that.

[Jotari]

10 minutes ago, redlight said:

FGO only has summer seasonals and it's doing just fine, but I'd doubt IS would do that. Cutting down powercreep would be a nice start. FGOs new SSR servants are usually "just good". There's also no SI so every servent is unique for better or worse. Broken ones are like a few a year. And the older ones get strengthening quests to buff skills or their NP if DW wants to entice people to summon for older servants

Both's mom's are refreshers and they dabble in the skill that their mother's are potent at. Bard is literally a glass cannon class. Might as well make troubadours refreshers as well bcs of their original meaning

Difference is troubadours is just some weird random name in Fire Emblem, while bards actually do sing, even in Holy War. It's just part of their characters instead of gameplay.

Edited January 9, 2019 by Jotari

[Ice Dragon]

Perhaps an unpopular opinion, but I still don't really think the powercreep is actually as bad as people are making it out to be.

If everyone had reasonable access to the new, powerful skills in a reasonable amount of time, I don't think it'd really be an issue. The problem as I see it is that skill availability SUCKS ASS like nothing else. The developers are very clearly prioritizing creating new skills instead of making older skills easier to obtain for the general player base, and that's what I think is really driving the perceived power difference between new units and older units.

Players without the ability to whale are stuck with maybe only one copy of a new skill, and that one copy will be a 5-star character that often isn't worth giving up to transfer the skill to another unit. As such, the new units are perceived to be stronger than they actually are simply because they have the skill on them by default. This wouldn't be the case if new skills were given more availability, either by them being added more often to new units, being added retroactively to older, outdated units, or being added to a skill shop a few months after its release. Heck, a skill shop with limited and rotating stock would probably be sufficient to not screw over sales on "Heroes with Skill" banners.

 

Speaking specifically about Sturdy Impact, the skill is functionally really only Death Blow 3 and enemy follow-up prevention. The addition of Armored Blow 5 as an additional effect is really not significant. Armored Blow itself is an absolutely terrible skill, and I'm actually glad the developers finally realize how useless the skill effect is and balanced the numerical value of its boost. The thing is that most player-phase units (other than glass cannon mages) are already durable enough to survive a single counterattack, meaning the boost in Def is really there more for sustain rather than survival.

 

14 minutes ago, redlight said:

Might as well make troubadours refreshers as well bcs of their original meaning

I hadn't actually thought of that one.

 

6 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Difference is troubadours is just some weird random name in Fire Emblem, while bards actually do sing, even in Holy War.

Ahem: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troubadour.

Edited January 9, 2019 by Ice Dragon

[Dandy Druid]

Didn't notice this earlier, but Leanne's weapon does heal nearby allies at the start of a turn. A nice little touch they added from how they can heal in their original games. This would make them the first melee healers, correct? Or at least the first nonseasonal ones.

[Jotari]

5 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Perhaps an unpopular opinion, but I still don't really think the powercreep is actually as bad as people are making it out to be.

If everyone had reasonable access to the new, powerful skills in a reasonable amount of time, I don't think it'd really be an issue. The problem as I see it is that skill availability SUCKS ASS like nothing else. The developers are very clearly prioritizing creating new skills instead of making older skills easier to obtain for the general player base, and that's what I think is really driving the perceived power difference between new units and older units.

Players without the ability to whale are stuck with maybe only one copy of a new skill, and that one copy will be a 5-star character that often isn't worth giving up to transfer the skill to another unit. As such, the new units are perceived to be stronger than they actually are simply because they have the skill on them by default. This wouldn't be the case if new skills were given more availability, either by them being added more often to new units, being added retroactively to older, outdated units, or being added to a skill shop a few months after its release. Heck, a skill shop with limited and rotating stock would probably be sufficient to not screw over sales on "Heroes with Skill" banners.

 

Speaking specifically about Sturdy Impact, the skill is functionally really only Death Blow 3 and enemy follow-up prevention. The addition of Armored Blow 5 as an additional effect is really not significant. Armored Blow itself is an absolutely terrible skill, and I'm actually glad the developers finally realize how useless the skill effect is and balanced the numerical value of its boost. The thing is that most player-phase units (other than glass cannon mages) are already durable enough to survive a single counterattack, meaning the boost in Def is really there more for sustain rather than survival.

 

I hadn't actually thought of that one.

 

Ahem: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troubadour.

I know what a troubadour is...I thought my comment made that clear. It's a weird random name in Fire Emblem. That is to say Fire Emblem troubadours have no connection to songs or music, but Fire Emblem bards do. It just wasn't a part of gameplay for the class in Genealogy of the Holy War, but it was part of the characters who used that class.

[Jotari]

2 minutes ago, Dandy Druid said:

Didn't notice this earlier, but Leanne's weapon does heal nearby allies at the start of a turn. A nice little touch they added from how they can heal in their original games. This would make them the first melee healers, correct? Or at least the first nonseasonal ones.

Eir can heal passively (and anyone who gains her skill). Breath of life has also been around for like ever. Leanne doesn't really break the mold in any regard with that. Still, more passive healing options will be good for my Sword Celicas.

[Mercakete]

10 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I know what a troubadour is...I thought my comment made that clear. It's a weird random name in Fire Emblem. That is to say Fire Emblem troubadours have no connection to songs or music, but Fire Emblem bards do. It just wasn't a part of gameplay for the class in Genealogy of the Holy War, but it was part of the characters who used that class.

Plus, "troubadour" is a masculine term irl, iirc, but in FE, I think they're strictly female. So, that adds to the "in FE" point.

[Dandy Druid]

1 minute ago, Jotari said:

Eir can heal passively (and anyone who gains her skill). Breath of life has also been around for like ever. Leanne doesn't really break the mold in any regard with that. Still, more passive healing options will be good for my Sword Celicas.

I consider Eir a distance fighter since she doesn't get up close and personal like Leanne will.

And tbh I forgot about Breath of Life.

Oh well, Leanne is still unique because she's a gray melee unit that dances. I believe the only other Gray Melee unit if Female Grima.

[Mercakete]

10 minutes ago, Dandy Druid said:

I consider Eir a distance fighter since she doesn't get up close and personal like Leanne will.

And tbh I forgot about Breath of Life.

Oh well, Leanne is still unique because she's a gray melee unit that dances. I believe the only other Gray Melee unit if Female Grima.

It's not just Leanne. Seems that Heron Wings at all do the healing; Reyson's attack also heals allies' HP at the start of the turn.

[Ice Dragon]

4 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I know what a troubadour is...I thought my comment made that clear. It's a weird random name in Fire Emblem.

Honestly, it wasn't clear, hence why the use of bold helps.

 

5 minutes ago, Jotari said:

That is to say Fire Emblem troubadours have no connection to songs or music, but Fire Emblem bards do. It just wasn't a part of gameplay for the class in Genealogy of the Holy War, but it was part of the characters who used that class.

That still doesn't address the fact that being able to sing or dance and doing so in the story has no bearing on whether or not you have the ability to refresh, i.e. the ability to use the Sing or Dance action.

I figure most of the nobility in the Fire Emblem games are capable of singing, dancing, or playing an instrument to some degree simply as a part of their education, but that doesn't mean they should all have the ability to be a refresher on the battlefield.

[Jotari]

3 minutes ago, Dandy Druid said:

I consider Eir a distance fighter since she doesn't get up close and personal like Leanne will.

And tbh I forgot about Breath of Life.

Oh well, Leanne is still unique because she's a gray melee unit that dances. I believe the only other Gray Melee unit if Female Grima.

Oh >.< When you said melee unit my mind went to physical unit. 

I'm not surprised you forgot about Breath of Life. It's mostly useless. They could at least give it two range.

[DraceEmpressa]

1 hour ago, Glennstavos said:

I don't mind the influx of dancers in this case because it's the rare instance of dancers being in the normal summoning pool.

I do mind them in story chapters tho. Dancers in paralogues is okay.. (and not all paralogue banners are seasonals, look at Brave Redux and Adrift)  but dancers in story chapters is p a i n. and then comes chain challenge, y i k e s 

[Jotari]

58 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Honestly, it wasn't clear, hence why the use of bold helps.

 

That still doesn't address the fact that being able to sing or dance and doing so in the story has no bearing on whether or not you have the ability to refresh, i.e. the ability to use the Sing or Dance action.

I figure most of the nobility in the Fire Emblem games are capable of singing, dancing, or playing an instrument to some degree simply as a part of their education, but that doesn't mean they should all have the ability to be a refresher on the battlefield.

Hence we go back to Ingo and Shigure who csnt refresh in their own game's but have refreshing alts in Heroes. You really think people would get angry or IS couldn't implement the Jugdral Bards as refreshers in a seasonal? Raven uses axes, there are no rules. And you say most nobles would be able to dance or play music, then I direct you to that one festival seasonal which gave us four new refreshers using characters that had absolutely nothing to do with music in their own games. Do you really think the idea of refreshing Levin is stranger than refreshing Xander? If they want to give us Homer and Levin as refreshers they absolutely could, the only reason they don't is because nobody loves Jugdral.

Edit: Now that I think about it maybe only Micaiah was a dancer in that banner. But my point still stands. She had noting to do with music in her game.

Edited January 9, 2019 by Jotari

[Dandy Druid]

5 minutes ago, Mercakete said:

It's not just Leanne. Seems that Heron Wings at all do the healing; Reyson's attack also heals allies' HP at the start of the turn.

Oh yeah. I forgot they have pretty much the same weapon, but just in different colors.

3 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

That still doesn't address the fact that being able to sing or dance and doing so in the story has no bearing on whether or not you have the ability to refresh, i.e. the ability to use the Sing or Dance action.

I figure most of the nobility in the Fire Emblem games are capable of singing, dancing, or playing an instrument to some degree simply as a part of their education, but that doesn't mean they should all have the ability to be a refresher on the battlefield.

I think you're misunderstanding the original point Jotari and I were trying to make.

I was trying to say that Lewyn and Homer are good candidates for a SEASONAL music-centered banner like Performing Arts because their characters are tied to music like Inigo & Shigure's characters are. That's all. I was pointing out 2 characters in particular that are NOTED for their music and how they would be a good selection for that type of seasonal banner. Sure, all of the nobles may have learned music at some point, but it's not mentioned. It is mentioned for Lewyn and Homer. That is all. They don't need to be refreshers in their main game in order to get an alt that happens to refresh in Heroes. Hell, look at Ryoma and Xander.

3 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Oh >.< When you said melee unit my mind went to physical unit. 

I'm not surprised you forgot about Breath of Life. It's mostly useless. They could at least give it two range.

Skill refinery when?

[Lewyn]

I don't think there is any danger of them burning through units too fast, they release actual new units at the rate of molasses.  New Radiant Dawn banner, the 2nd one in the history of the game, and the first banner introducing beasts?  Go all out, no need to save for anything.  When we are talking about old games (everything besides Fates/Awakening) much better for them to release all the heavy hitters as fast as possible cause these games are lucky to get one banner a year, sometimes two.  

Dancers whatever.  If they run out they can release alts, was that our 5th Azura?  How many Olivia are there?  There is no worry about them running out of anything, considering how they can put popular existing characters into whatever role they see fit and release them ad infinitum.  

3 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Hence we go back to Ingo and Shigure who csnt refresh in their own game's but have refreshing alts in Heroes. You really think people would get angry or IS couldn't implement the Jugdral Bards as refreshers in a seasonal? Raven uses axes, there are no rules. And you say most nobles would be able to dance or play music, then I direct you to that one new years seasonal which gave us four new refreshers using characters that had absolutely nothing to do with music in their own game's. Do you really think the idea of refreshing Levin is stranger than refreshing Xander? If they want to give us Homer and Levin as refreshers they absolutely could, the only reason they don't is because nobody loves Jugdral.

I love Judgral.  *quietly leaves room*