New Heroes: Rulers Of The Laguz

[Othin]

I'd take +Res over +Spd, personally. Especially when her weapon can take neutral Spd from 38 to 44.

[LuxSpes]

12 minutes ago, Othin said:

I'd take +Res over +Spd, personally. Especially when her weapon can take neutral Spd from 38 to 44.

Id completely forgotten about the owl effectnon her weapon. Considering that, I might keep the +Res/-Spd and merge the +Spd/-Res once the merging change comes out. If I used her with Leanne and a DD seal, she could reach a statline of 41/57/50/38/33 when attacked from range. 

[NoirCore]

9 hours ago, Gregster101 said:

No, I just think his voice would fit Naesala

...you know I was joking around, right? Hence me using the strike-through? :P

[Stroud]

24 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

Maybe try noontime and possibly the QR seal? With the +10 from her weapon, the special will still do a solid bit of damage on top of recovering some health, and QR will let her finish the enemy off since she's probably not killing blues and even somewhat bulky greens in one hit without an actual damaging special. That build has worked pretty well for me on my Michalis, and I just got done doing the SI for it, just need to get the SP together.

Yeah, this is a good idea. I tried Sol on her for now, but Noontime should be nice as well. I will give it to her too. Thanks to cooldown-1 she could use that after any attack she takes. 
Thanks to +10 damage and maybe 2-4 more through teammates she can still deal solid damage. And her b skill grants her the ability to use it against anything. I could give her QR seal, but my Nailah has speed+/res-. So as long as there is no unit which stops her through skills she can double many units. For now I have Atk Smoke as a Seal. I could also give her Fierce Stance Seal or something else.

I will try to at least get her a second time. Because Res- hurts, what does it help to counter Dazzle if she cannot survive. Which is why the recovery helps a bit. 

[bottlegnomes]

Oh, wow, yeah, I completely forgot about the owl tome-like effect. It's also lenient enough that it can be feasibly applied on PP and EP. Yeah, definitely +res in that case.

 

So I was just sitting here and had a shower thought. It'd be kinda cool if cats came with a more defensive type of weapon, like guard or a stance skill or something, to differentiate them from the wolves more offensive fighting style. Just a thought, and really, how many generic Laguz are we even going to see?

 

@Stroud Ah, yeah, I blanked on that. Probably don't need the speed when you're hitting 46 without even factoring in C slots and seals.Yeah, it seems like DD, Attack Smoke, or Warding Stance if they ever make that a seal would all be solid choices, just something to up her bulkiness. I can empathize. Even with neutral def and res, she's not exactly tanking hits left and right. A Delthea OHKOed her in Forging Bonds

Edited January 12, 2019 by bottlegnomes

[Usana]

1 minute ago, bottlegnomes said:

Oh, wow, yeah, I completely forgot about the owl tome-like effect. It's also lenient enough that it can be feasibly applied on PP and EP. Yeah, definitely +res in that case.

 

So I was just sitting here and had a shower thought. It'd be kinda cool if cats came with a more defensive type of weapon, like guard or a stance skill or something, to differentiate them from the wolves more offensive fighting style. Just a thought, and really, how many generic Laguz are we even going to see?

Given cats have a reputation irl for being solo creatures maybe they could come with a solo type effect making them stronger if the aren't near allies. Kinda like Winter Ephraim's skill set. Of course that has already been done so might be kinda boring.

[ILikeKirbys]

@bottlegnomes Do you mean Tigers? Because I would agree on Tigers getting more defense-oriented weapons, but Cats should get more glass-cannon/SPD-oriented weapons IMO.

[bottlegnomes]

13 minutes ago, Usana said:

Given cats have a reputation irl for being solo creatures maybe they could come with a solo type effect making them stronger if the aren't near allies. Kinda like Winter Ephraim's skill set. Of course that has already been done so might be kinda boring.

That's a cool idea too, and actually does contrast the wolves' pack-makes-me-strong effect that I just now noticed thanks to you saying that. I don't think it has to be something original to make them interesting, necessarily. None of the wolf effects are actually completely new, just applied to a new unit type.

@ILikeKirbys I just meant cats as a catch-all, so Lions, Tigers, and Cats. Basically the ones from Gallia. Honestly kinda forgot that Cat was an actual class. It'd be really cool if they even differentiated it by Laguz type, so wolves get a different effect than cats who get a different effect from tigers, etc., but based on the birds, that doesn't seem like it'll be the case.

Just some thoughts based on you two's input:

• Cats - Atk/Spd solo and wo effect
• Tigers - Atk/Def solo and guard effect (at least 50%+ if not all the way)
• Lions - +2 x num allies atk/def since lions are more social and guard effect (at least 50%+ if not all the way)
• White dragons - Warding breath
• Red Dragons - Steady breath
• Black Dragons - Bracing breath

The birds got left out because IS already made their decisions. Not because I'm feeling too lazy to think of things, totally not it, I swear.

Edited January 12, 2019 by bottlegnomes

[Vince777]

10 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

 

@ILikeKirbys I just meant cats as a catch-all, so Lions, Tigers, and Cats. Basically the ones from Gallia.

Lions are not solo creatures in the slightest though.

Edit: you mentionned that yourself, I apologize.

Edited January 12, 2019 by Vince777

[ILikeKirbys]

3 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

That's a cool idea too, and actually does contrast the wolves' pack-makes-me-strong effect that I just now noticed thanks to you saying that. I don't think it has to be something original to make them interesting, necess 

And now you’re making me want Volug to come with a DEF/RES Owl-Drive effect to contrast Nailah’s ATK/SPD one, and a transformation that gives him -5 damage taken on defensive Special activations to contrast Nailah having +10 damage on offensive Special activations, and Special Cooldown -1 since that might just a Wolf Laguz thing. Not sure that can be justified in lore since I never actually played Radiant Dawn, but it’d make him quite different from Nailah.

3 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

@ILikeKirbys I just meant cats as a catch-all, so Lions, Tigers, and Cats. Basically the ones from Gallia. Honestly kinda forgot that Cat was an actual class. It'd be really cool if they even differentiated it by Laguz type, so wolves get a different effect than cats who get a different effect from tigers, etc., but based on the birds, that doesn't seem like it'll be the case.

Don’t worry, I forgot too until recently when I reread a Let’s Play and saw Mordecai and Lethe were different classes.

It’s possible that the Cat/Tiger/Lion Laguz groups could be more differentiated than the Hawks, Ravens, and Herons were, since IIRC all three of those unit types are fast, high-mobility Flying units, while IIRC Cats are generally weaker but faster, Tigers are sturdier but slower, and Lions are very strong while otherwise being Tiger-y (but for differentiation-in-Heroes purposes, Tigers could get generic weapons more specced toward defending while Lions could get generic weapons more focused on putting out maximum power). It might be possible to see Tigers in general get something like “Grants DEF +3. [Transformation requirement is listed, followed by a prf’s personal effect, if any]. When transformed, grants +2 ATK, and grants DEF/RES +4 when foe initiates combat.” to make them the more defensive Laguz while Cats in general could get “Grants SPD +3. [Transformation requirement is listed, followed by a prf’s personal effect, if any]. When transformed, unit can move one extra space. (That turn only. Does not stack.) When transformed, grants +2 SPD.” to make them the weaker but fastest Laguz, while Lions in general could get something like “Grants ATK +3. [Transformation requirement is listed, followed by a prf’s personal effect, if any]. When transformed, grants ATK +2, and grants ATK +6 to unit and adjacent Beast allies for 1 turn when HP = 100% at start of turn.” to make them the strongest Laguz.

And then the Dragon Laguz could get Dragonstones with something like “Grants RES +3. When no human allies are adjacent at start of turn, unit transforms. [Prf effect goes here] When transformed, Damage is calculated using lower of foe’s DEF or RES. When transformed, grants ATK +2.” to make them different from the non-Laguz Dragons.

[SSbardock84]

Man, used about 300 orbs . . . Got Nailah on my first summoning, which was great. But I still haven't gotten Tibarn. Gah

[bottlegnomes]

20 minutes ago, ILikeKirbys said:

And now you’re making me want Volug to come with a DEF/RES Owl-Drive effect to contrast Nailah’s ATK/SPD one, and a transformation that gives him -5 damage taken on defensive Special activations to contrast Nailah having +10 damage on offensive Special activations, and Special Cooldown -1 since that might just a Wolf Laguz thing. Not sure that can be justified in lore since I never actually played Radiant Dawn, but it’d make him quite different from Nailah.

Just to be clear, if you mean the more defensive slant, that actually does make a good bit of sense given that a large chunk of Volug's role in RD is as a protector for Micaiah. IIRC, he's even Nailah's attendant, with some implication that he's there to help watch her back. Heck, another possible effect could be close guard or something. If you mean the killer effect, ain't no gameplay or lore justification for that, but chalk it up to a Heroes thing :P

Also, I like your ideas for the beasts. It'd definitely serve to differentiate them a bit more and I like the idea of Lions buffing other allies in addition to themselves. That also works into their role as kings and big players in Gallia. It makes sense for random Gallian soldier #538 to feel more inspired seeing his king or prince fight right alongside him. And yeah, differentiating lions and tigers would probably necessitate some changes. In RD especially, PoR too, but Giffca was the only one, Lions were basically just a hard upgrade of Tigers.

For the birds, there was a bit of a cats/tigers type split where hawks were a bit beefier and slower and crows were faster but weaker, but it wasn't nearly as pronounced as cats versus tigers from what I remember, so definitely agreed there.

[ILikeKirbys]

@bottlegnomes Glad Volug works lore-wise (I meant the defensive slant there, and yeah, I only included Special Cooldown -1 for him ‘cause I figure that’ll be the Wolf-Prf stat boost like the Birds’ SPD +3, but I wouldn’t be unhappy if he got DEF +3 or RES +3 or something), and your suggestion of Close Guard 3 makes me think that Drive DEF/RES 2 on the weapon would probably make a better when-transformed effect than -5 damage on defensive Special activations.

Also very happy that you like my ideas for what the Laguz weapons could look like! Though regarding the Lions, Giffca might need a different effect than Beast ATK Wave 3 on transformation since he isn’t the king or the prince, but I’m not sure what that could be. Maybe ATK/DEF Ploy 3 if he gets higher RES to differentiate from Skrimir (who I assume would get high ATK/SPD and low defenses) and Caineghis (who I assume would get monstrous ATK, high HP and respectable DEF in exchange for mediocre SPD and crap RES), or Chill DEF 3 if not?

Edited January 12, 2019 by ILikeKirbys

[bottlegnomes]

37 minutes ago, ILikeKirbys said:

@bottlegnomes Glad Volug works lore-wise (I meant the defensive slant there, and yeah, I only included Special Cooldown -1 for him ‘cause I figure that’ll be the Wolf-Prf stat boost like the Birds’ SPD +3, but I wouldn’t be unhappy if he got DEF +3 or RES +3 or something), and your suggestion of Close Guard 3 makes me think that Drive DEF/RES 2 on the weapon would probably make a better when-transformed effect than -5 damage on defensive Special activations.

Also very happy that you like my ideas for what the Laguz weapons could look like! Though regarding the Lions, Giffca might need a different effect than Beast ATK Wave 3 on transformation since he isn’t the king or the prince, but I’m not sure what that could be. Maybe ATK/DEF Ploy 3 if he gets higher RES to differentiate from Skrimir (who I assume would get high ATK/SPD and low defenses) and Caineghis (who I assume would get monstrous ATK, high HP and respectable DEF in exchange for mediocre SPD and crap RES), or Chill DEF 3 if not?

I wouldn't worry about it too much. Giffca'd still totally work with the boost since he's basically the WWII Eisenhower of Gallia. But the other ones would work and could tie a bit into his status as the King's Shadow. Can't really give a good reason right at the moment, but to me shadow makes just as much sense as being detrimental to opponents as a giant black lion who's the third most important person in your entire kingdom that you respect the hell out of fighting next to you would probably inspire you.

If you do get a chance to play the Tellius games, I can't recommend them enough. PoR's gameplay hasn't aged well, but the story is very solid. RD's gameplay has aged surprisingly well and the story is a bit of a mess, but had a lot of potential and a decent bit that was actually capitalized on, just not in the cleanest way. They're both in my top 5 FE games.

Edited January 12, 2019 by bottlegnomes

[XRay]

I got Leanne and Deirdre. I am not sure if I should continue summoning green orbs for Reyson, since there seems to be a consensus that he is likely to be dropped. I really want to get him, but I also know that he can always pity break me later even if he does not drop. I have 19 out of 20 Dancers/Singers currently, with only Reyson missing.

[Silith13]

Forging Bonds first summon tickets gave me a 12th Leanne. And it's +spd which all others didn't have. I'm so happy goddamn!

[TheWildestCat]

7 hours ago, Silith13 said:

Forging Bonds first summon tickets gave me a 12th Leanne. And it's +spd which all others didn't have. I'm so happy goddamn!

I forgot about forging bonds. Also I was wondering where the tickets came from. Thanks for telling me that they are from forging bonds. One thing I hope they don't do is add a chapter, make a paralogue, add a chapter, make a paralogue. I don't like it when there are New heroes that can be summoned after the banner but they are in paralogues. I don't mind after they finish a book, but I feel like it would be better for the game. I think paralogues should be used for seasonal events. 

Edited January 12, 2019 by TheWildestCat

[kirauza343]

Someone might’ve mentioned this already and I just missed it (in that case my bad) but the +2 attack from the Laguz transformation isn’t a green buff or a hidden buff; it’s applied to the base value. Noticed that when I was using Nailah in a party with Christmas Eirika when her attack based buffs hit different people depending on whether or not Nailah was transformed.

[Ice Dragon]

2 hours ago, kirauza343 said:

Someone might’ve mentioned this already and I just missed it (in that case my bad) but the +2 attack from the Laguz transformation isn’t a green buff or a hidden buff; it’s applied to the base value. Noticed that when I was using Nailah in a party with Christmas Eirika when her attack based buffs hit different people depending on whether or not Nailah was transformed.

The transformation bonus is treated as if the Mt of the weapon is increased from 14 to 16 (for the final-tier uninheritable weapons), which makes sense because they are melee weapons.

[Tenzen12]

Wow, Tibarn is truly beast (pun not intended?)! He is killing high defense lances like colour wasn't even his bussines.

Nailah in other hand is more difficult to use then I expected (still, I love her battle animation and never missed one). 

In the end I decide aim for Lenne too, transformation mechanic turn to be more annoying with regular dancers having to stay step behind... 

[Tree]

The new art has grown on me. I still have a preference for some aspects of the originals, but I like the new versions too. Still a bit disappointed with Naesala's art, but I'll just pretend it's a younger version of him. I like the way the new units work. They are different and powerful, but still have weaknesses. Overall, fairly happy with the update. I'm still short Nailah and Reyson, but I don't care for Nailah and Reyson will probably be demoted. I pull green often, so I'll likely get him later anyway.

[DarthR0xas]

Saved up my orbs until today, trying to scrap up what little other orbs I can before going on a huge spending spree. Had around 250. I got

Sigurd (-hp, +atk)

Nailah (-spd, +atk)

Reyson (-spd, +def)

And a 4.50% rate that is killing me since I just want Tibarn. Anyways, I'll probably fodder off Reyson, his plus defense is irrelevant with 34 speed, and I already have a NY!Azura, I'm good on flying dancers. Sigurd is probably also getting foddered. My main horse emblem team already has Sword Reinhardt, and he's doing well for himself. Nailah I'll probably use, should be a good enemy phase nuker.

[Tree]

2 minutes ago, DarthR0xas said:

And a 4.50% rate that is killing me since I just want Tibarn.

That's a decent percent to get something as long as you'd be OK with not getting Tibarn. In around 350 orbs I got one Tibarn and six off banner red units (all different).

[DarthR0xas]

7 minutes ago, Tree said:

That's a decent percent to get something as long as you'd be OK with not getting Tibarn. In around 350 orbs I got one Tibarn and six off banner red units (all different).

I mean, I've essentially just been summoning red for my last 125 orbs. Fat load of nothing it's gotten me. My luck is just terrible when it comes to any banner that isn't the CYL banner, then with that banner my luck suddenly becomes "Here's three five stars on one pull".

[bottlegnomes]

8 hours ago, Tenzen12 said:

Wow, Tibarn is truly beast (pun not intended?)! He is killing high defense lances like colour wasn't even his bussines.

Nailah in other hand is more difficult to use then I expected (still, I love her battle animation and never missed one). 

In the end I decide aim for Lenne too, transformation mechanic turn to be more annoying with regular dancers having to stay step behind... 

Yeah, Nailah is solid enough, but her base kit isn't exactly game-breaking given her statline. I feel like her optimal build might end up being along the lines of like Ayra or Karel where it's Moonbow/DC/Wrath and just getting her to transform ASAP so she can have very powerful specials ready every turn; +20 damage for Nailah and Karel and Regnal Astra for Ayra. Haven't gotten Tibarn, but after seeing him fuck me up one time when I wasn't paying attention (ORKOed Surtr on EP like it was nothing), he certainly does seem terrifying. Really hoping I get him.

Still, Null C-Disrupt is really nice. I feel like Legendary Lyn might really appreciate it.

Edited January 13, 2019 by bottlegnomes