Dismissed Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) I'm working on an original work to be published on AO3 (and hopefully in the future, in print) set in a medieval-ish fantasy setting, and I'm currently working out the details of the economy, using coinage of copper, silver, and gold. 1 Gold is to 10 SIlver, and 1 Silver is to 50 Copper. In real life terms, 2 copper coins would be equal to 5 Philippine pesos, all based on the fact that I bought a loaf of sliced bread a few days ago for ₱52, rounded it down to ₱50 in my calculations, assumed that it was 400 grams and had 20 slices (20 grams per slice), and equated one slice of bread to one copper coin, therefore making a whole loaf 20 copper coins. So, to recap: Spoiler 1 Gold=10 Silver=₱1250 1 Silver=50 Copper=₱125 Real Life Equation: 2 Copper=₱5 Minimum Wage (Average amount a Laborer or Adventurer earns in an assumed 8-hour work day)=3 Silver 10 Copper=160 Copper=₱400 Hourly Wage=20 Copper=₱50 (around $1) I did some calculations for consumables based on local prices, and if not applicable, made some numbers up, which led me to this long list of price equations. All measurements are metric. Does it sound logical/plausible so far? Assume they have distillation and other water-purifying techniques and magic-based refrigeration. Spoiler Bread Loaf (400 g/20 slices)=20 Copper Potato (200 g)=7 Copper Corn (100 g, 200 with cob)=5 Copper Fish(1.5 kg)=54 Copper Fish Chunk (250 g)=10 Copper Egg=3 Copper Dozen Eggs=31 Copper Whole Chicken (1.25 kg)=36 Copper Half Chicken (625 g)=20 Copper Chicken Piece (~156.25 g)=6 Copper Whole Turkey (2.5 kg)=1 Gold Turkey Leg=2 Silver Red Meat (1 kg)=1 Silver Wheat (1 kg)=40 Copper Rice (1 kg)=20 Copper Fruits (1 kg)=20 Copper Vegetables (1 kg)=35 Copper Cake=7 Silver 25 Copper Ice Cream (200 ml)=16 Copper Candy (1 piece)=1 Copper Soda Mug (250 ml)=4 Copper Soda Bottle (1.5 L)=20 Copper Beer Mug (250 ml)=5 Copper Beer Bottle (750 ml)=12 Copper Ale Mug (250 ml)=7 Copper Ale Bottle (750 ml)=20 Copper Mead Mug (250 ml)=8 Copper Mead Bottle (750 ml)=22 Copper Wine Glass (200 ml)=12 Copper Wine Bottle (1 L)=1 Silver Water (500 ml)=6 Copper Water (4 L)=36 Copper Milk (250 ml)=8 Copper Milk (1 L)=30 Copper Cheese (100 g)=20 Copper Seasonings/Spices/Flavorings (150 g)=15 Copper Salt (150 g)=10 Copper Chocolate (50 g)=15 Copper This is all very elaborate work, but I'm trying my best to make this fictional economy function properly. But we're not done yet! Here's a list of non-food/drink items: Spoiler Pure Copper/Zinc (1 kg)=160 Copper Tin (1 kg)=7 Silver Bronze/Brass (1 kg)=4 Silver Iron (1 kg)=5 Silver Steel (1 kg)=6 Silver Lead (1 kg)=3 Silver Wood (1 cubic meter)=1 Silver Cost of Amenities/Living per day=1 Silver That's all I've got as of the moment. Now my head's swimming in numbers... Edited January 10, 2019 by Purple Mage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoncat Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 This is more than I usually do! Nice job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dismissed Posted January 10, 2019 Author Share Posted January 10, 2019 1 minute ago, Dragoncat said: This is more than I usually do! Nice job. Are they plausible though? It might just fall apart at a glance. Sort of like my friendships, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoncat Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, Purple Mage said: Are they plausible though? It might just fall apart at a glance. Sort of like my friendships, no? I am not an expert on currencies...no clue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ertrick36 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 What kind of original work are you making that you'd need to know what reasonable prices would be for all those items? Prices would actually vary on how well stocked the stores/community is on those things. For example, if a wheat farm is doing poorly, that would most likely make bread more expensive, while if it a livestock farm has an over-abundance of cows for slaughter, beef might cheap. And then you'd have to take into consideration the type of market/economy for a given community. State-provided goods (which you'd have if you lived in a communist/socialist nation or some lords' domains) would have fixed prices through all venues of purchase, while less regulated goods (you'd find in a capitalist or laissez faire economy) could greatly vary from shop to shop; generally speaking goods are cheaper in a less regulated society unless it gets to the point where there's a monopoly on some markets. And then there's lots of other factors such as inflation. So generally speaking, just as long as you've got a rough estimate on what these prices would be, you should be fine. What's more important is the comparison of item values to those of other items - a trained horse should naturally cost more to own than a slab of beef - as well as whether it's reasonable for certain classes of people to afford the items. It would, again, depend on the state of the economy, but generally speaking it shouldn't be very easy for commoners to purchase whole turkeys unless the economy is doing extremely well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dismissed Posted January 10, 2019 Author Share Posted January 10, 2019 1 minute ago, Ertrick36 said: What kind of original work are you making that you'd need to know what reasonable prices would be for all those items? Prices would actually vary on how well stocked the stores/community is on those things. For example, if a wheat farm is doing poorly, that would most likely make bread more expensive, while if it a livestock farm has an over-abundance of cows for slaughter, beef might cheap. And then you'd have to take into consideration the type of market/economy for a given community. State-provided goods (which you'd have if you lived in a communist/socialist nation or some lords' domains) would have fixed prices through all venues of purchase, while less regulated goods (you'd find in a capitalist or laissez faire economy) could greatly vary from shop to shop; generally speaking goods are cheaper in a less regulated society unless it gets to the point where there's a monopoly on some markets. And then there's lots of other factors such as inflation. So generally speaking, just as long as you've got a rough estimate on what these prices would be, you should be fine. What's more important is the comparison of item values to those of other items - a trained horse should naturally cost more to own than a slab of beef - as well as whether it's reasonable for certain classes of people to afford the items. It would, again, depend on the state of the economy, but generally speaking it shouldn't be very easy for commoners to purchase whole turkeys unless the economy is doing extremely well. A medieval fantasy setting, and I'm trying to take into account the main characters' budget chapter by chapter. They reside in a sizable port town which basically has almost every resource available for the sake of convenience. As for the turkey thing, my bad. I shall readjust that to 2 silver for a turkey leg and 1 gold for a whole turkey. I can't really give realistic numbers on turkeys since we don't really have them here where I live, but I'll try my best. The protagonist starts with 30 silver (a symbolic reference), and I'd imagine slaying a typical slime yields 5 copper, slaying an oversized bug would yield 10, evil amphibians yield 20, evil reptiles yield 30, dog-sized (big dog-sized) mammalians yield 40, and killing a cubic meter-sized jelly cube gives you 1 silver. It might all be too big or too small though. Who knows? The secondary protagonist is a technological genius who has invented a primitive arquebus (the rest of the folk at this point have gunpowder access restricted to heavy cannons and other primitive Chinese-esque gunpowder weapons from the east) and occasionally buys 3 kilos of lead to cast into 15-gram bullets. So assuming it takes a cubic meter of wood as fuel to cast 100 bullets, and that the 3-kilo yield (200 bullets) lasts her a week before she has to restock, she spends 11 silver a week. It's ridiculous. It's not even funny. Therefore, she spends 4 gold and 4 silver every month on ammunition alone, which translates to 5500 pesos in real life terms based on the exchange rate I set up, which equates to $100 in US dollars. That's still not including the price of the components of gunpowder. So for the sake of convenience, 1 silver translates to a week's worth of gunpowder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ertrick36 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 28 minutes ago, Purple Mage said: A medieval fantasy setting, and I'm trying to take into account the main characters' budget chapter by chapter. They reside in a sizable port town which basically has almost every resource available for the sake of convenience. I ask just because obviously logistics isn't exactly the most fascinating reading material. The only creative material I'm aware of that has had to put this much thought and effort into figuring out how much a grocery list will cost is video games. Though I am aware that sometimes as a writer you put painstaking research into some of the strangest places - that's partly why I'm generally more informed about military stuff than a lot of other lifetime civilians. A port town is a convenient place for stories to take place in. 1 hour ago, Purple Mage said: As for the turkey thing, my bad. I shall readjust that to 2 silver for a turkey leg and 1 gold for a whole turkey. I can't really give realistic numbers on turkeys since we don't really have them here where I live, but I'll try my best. I mean, I wasn't criticizing it. I'd assume you were taking other expenses into consideration, not just food and drink. But, generally speaking, big slabs of meat are a little pricey, especially big plump delicacies such as farm birds. Though what really goes into the expense of meat is how it's cooked - particularly medium rare and well done meats. That is assuming the characters dine out instead of cooking meat themselves. For the record, whole turkeys are in around the $60 range - essentially the cost of a new game these days. Which would be two gold and four silver pieces. Which is very expensive if the minimum wage only amounts to a dollar per hour (in the U.S., minimum wage is around $10 per hour depending on the state). Yeah, in your world, that probably would be a fairly high class meal. Which does make sense for a medieval setting since nobles were the only ones allowed to hunt game and would typically take larger slices of the pie than their subjects, so to speak. 1 hour ago, Purple Mage said: The protagonist starts with 30 silver (a symbolic reference) That must be part of why the money and logistics are important. I'm assuming the protagonists are at least middle class? 1 hour ago, Purple Mage said: I'd imagine slaying a typical slime yields 5 copper, slaying an oversized bug would yield 10, evil amphibians yield 20, evil reptiles yield 30, dog-sized (big dog-sized) mammalians yield 40, and killing a cubic meter-sized jelly cube gives you 1 silver. It might all be too big or too small though. Who knows? Depends on the materials you gain from them and how valued said materials would be to the market. Like jellies from slimes, eyes from amphibians, tails from reptiles, and hide and meat from the mammals. Also, how cleanly the materials are recovered can affect price, but that's more a thing for stuff like DnD where you would frequently carve stuff to sell off or improve your gear. Really, you get to decide what has which values. My advice, the more common the material, the less valuable it ought to be. Also take the market into consideration - who'd buy jelly, who'd by eyes, who'd by tails, etc. Give a good slab of meat to a butcher, you're liable to get a better price than if you give it to the general store. 1 hour ago, Purple Mage said: The secondary protagonist is a technological genius who has invented a primitive arquebus (the rest of the folk at this point have gunpowder access restricted to heavy cannons and other primitive Chinese-esque gunpowder weapons from the east) Ah, ye olde firearms. The weapon that put warriors out of business, and made cavalry useless as dick until horses got replaced by armored vehicles. Hope she can set it off quick, those matchlock firearms take forever to properly fire off. 2 hours ago, Purple Mage said: occasionally buys 3 kilos of lead to cast into 15-gram bullets. So assuming it takes a cubic meter of wood as fuel to cast 100 bullets, and that the 3-kilo yield (200 bullets) lasts her a week before she has to restock, she spends 11 silver a week. It's ridiculous. It's not even funny. Therefore, she spends 4 gold and 4 silver every month on ammunition alone, which translates to 5500 pesos in real life terms based on the exchange rate I set up, which equates to $100 in US dollars. Sounds like a regular grocery trip for my family. And it also almost sounds like one of those weird-ass math problems in our textbooks where someone would stuff their trunk with watermelons or whatever the hell for no reason, except this has actual reasoning to it. American education sucks a whole lot. Listen, you've put way more thought into all of this than most people would. I'd say you should generally be okay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dismissed Posted January 10, 2019 Author Share Posted January 10, 2019 8 minutes ago, Ertrick36 said: I'm assuming the protagonists are at least middle class? Sort of. Just your typical run-of-the-mill novice adventurers. The primary protagonist is from a high-class background though. He left home for reasons to be revealed later on. 11 minutes ago, Ertrick36 said: Ah, ye olde firearms. The weapon that put warriors out of business, and made cavalry useless as dick until horses got replaced by armored vehicles. Hope she can set it off quick, those matchlock firearms take forever to properly fire off. Yeah, but being the only one with such a thing puts her at a disadvantage, because IIRC early firearm tactics required numerous soldiers to fire off multiple shots in the same timeframe. 13 minutes ago, Ertrick36 said: Sounds like a regular grocery trip for my family. And it also almost sounds like one of those weird-ass math problems in our textbooks where someone would stuff their trunk with watermelons or whatever the hell for no reason, except this has actual reasoning to it. American education sucks a whole lot. Oh yeah, it does. Oh, the lengths an author goes... Also, Philippine education sucks a lot too. (Well that's probably because it's based on American systems jk) 16 minutes ago, Ertrick36 said: Listen, you've put way more thought into all of this than most people would. I'd say you should generally be okay. Thanks. I'm the type of person to overthink things, and my head's constantly swimming in numbers. Whenever I see a phone number, I try to see if it's divisible by three. Whenever someone gets mad at me, my mind fills itself with equations to distract me from their wrath. I'm weird like that. As for the monsters, yeah the carcasses can be salvaged for useful stuff too, but let's just say that the monsters also inexplicably drop coinage because of convenience, and that monster carcasses just disintegrate most of the time, making resource-farming take longer than it would if the drop rate was 100%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ertrick36 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Purple Mage said: Sort of. Just your typical run-of-the-mill novice adventurers. The primary protagonist is from a high-class background though. He left home for reasons to be revealed later on. I'd say that's a decent living, being adventurers. No home (unless they have a "base of operations"), but they've got to be equipped with decent equipment to get anywhere. 1 hour ago, Purple Mage said: Yeah, but being the only one with such a thing puts her at a disadvantage, because IIRC early firearm tactics required numerous soldiers to fire off multiple shots in the same timeframe. Yeah, I remember from research I did a bit of ways back - firing lines. They had to barrage incoming enemies with gunfire at the same time. But if they did it right, a charging cavalry would be utterly destroyed. It's a lot different with only one person. That's partly why some folks at the time of the matchlock arquebus would say archery was still the way to go for ranged combat. And it's also the main thing the creators of Soul Edge/Soul Calibur forgot when they made the samurai Mitsurugi's first rival the Tanegashima rifle - it's not that it's capable of taking out a hardened warrior on its own, it's that it's very dangerous in a war charge when a team of them are at the ready with their guns. Kind of like how a cannon is worthless when someone's right next to you with a knife. 1 hour ago, Purple Mage said: Oh yeah, it does. Oh, the lengths an author goes... Also, Philippine education sucks a lot too. (Well that's probably because it's based on American systems jk) I just love this one post I saw about suspicious-looking Google search inquiries, such as "how fast would it take for this type of virus to spread", that were just authors trying to spice up their stories with a bit of realism and authentic brutality. And I wouldn't even be insulted by people insinuating their educations sucked because of America's education system. Known too many folks who liberally insult people based on their nationalities. Like the notorious Churchill once said, "America is the worst country in the world, except for all the other ones". Moral of the story, every country has its problems, they all got something worth laughing about, and one's a fool if they think they're better than someone else because of their nationality. 1 hour ago, Purple Mage said: Thanks. I'm the type of person to overthink things, and my head's constantly swimming in numbers. Whenever I see a phone number, I try to see if it's divisible by three. Whenever someone gets mad at me, my mind fills itself with equations to distract me from their wrath. I'm weird like that. Lived it and seen it with many other folks. I mean, I could be overthinking here. You're just some guy I'm merely acquainted with and have never seen in person asking if your numbers look right, and I'm throwing out enough paragraphs of advice to make a small high school essay. But I just like to assist writers. Partly because I would like to help enrich the writing world any way I can (even if in small ways) and also because I just love talking about writing. It's one of my hobbies, and it's one of the things I think about the most, especially when listening to music. 1 hour ago, Purple Mage said: As for the monsters, yeah the carcasses can be salvaged for useful stuff too, but let's just say that the monsters also inexplicably drop coinage because of convenience, and that monster carcasses just disintegrate most of the time, making resource-farming take longer than it would if the drop rate was 100%. You really make this sound like a video game or DnD campaign sometimes. I guess the jellies robbed some poor bean farmer of all his copper and went on their merry ways. Still, for convenience, I'll still say the more common, smaller, and easier to kill monsters should give less money and salvage worse stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dismissed Posted January 11, 2019 Author Share Posted January 11, 2019 15 hours ago, Ertrick36 said: I'd say that's a decent living, being adventurers. No home (unless they have a "base of operations"), but they've got to be equipped with decent equipment to get anywhere. They do. They stay in one town and venture out to fight monsters and stuff. 15 hours ago, Ertrick36 said: It's a lot different with only one person. That's partly why some folks at the time of the matchlock arquebus would say archery was still the way to go for ranged combat. And it's also the main thing the creators of Soul Edge/Soul Calibur forgot when they made the samurai Mitsurugi's first rival the Tanegashima rifle - it's not that it's capable of taking out a hardened warrior on its own, it's that it's very dangerous in a war charge when a team of them are at the ready with their guns. Kind of like how a cannon is worthless when someone's right next to you with a knife. Well, the secondary protagonist also has a melee weapon in the form of a wrench. It isn't much, but can be used as a blunt weapon in case an enemy gets too close to her. 15 hours ago, Ertrick36 said: I mean, I could be overthinking here. You're just some guy I'm merely acquainted with and have never seen in person asking if your numbers look right, and I'm throwing out enough paragraphs of advice to make a small high school essay. But I just like to assist writers. Partly because I would like to help enrich the writing world any way I can (even if in small ways) and also because I just love talking about writing. It's one of my hobbies, and it's one of the things I think about the most, especially when listening to music. You really make this sound like a video game or DnD campaign sometimes. I guess the jellies robbed some poor bean farmer of all his copper and went on their merry ways. Still, for convenience, I'll still say the more common, smaller, and easier to kill monsters should give less money and salvage worse stuff. Thank you. You seem like a pleasant, helpful dude. It is sort of video game-inspired. As for that last bit, yeah, I'll keep that in mind. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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