Stardust Crusaders is a filler arc.

[Jotari]

So about six months ago I made this thread

There I expressed my dissatisfaction with Jojo's Bizzare Adventure part 3 for basically throwing out everything that proceeded it. Now, half a year later (that time frame is kind of telling where this will go) I've finally finished it and I'm no more pleased with it (spoilers for a ~30 year old manga ahead). So much of that arc was pointless villain of the week action scenes that contributed absolutely nothing to the story. I'm the kind of person who like fight scenes with a lot of narrative build up and weight (something Part 2 did a lot better), even if their creative or well animated, it just doesn't work if i'm not invested. The characters were likeable enough but when you throw so much at them it eliminates all sense of weight to the actual fights as I know there's basically no chance of them dying. The exception being of course the fight were Polnareff finally avenges his sister and Abdul gets killed. That was great, but then they went and brought Abdul back which completely ruined any suspense until the finale. Abdul also did absolutely nothing until he died again, something that happened so ridiculously quickly and in a non definitive way that I didn't even believe he was actually  dead until Vanilla Ice was defeated (that aside, the Vanilla Ice fight and finale were actually pretty damn amazing).

In the prior thread I complained about how it didn't feel like the same show despite having the same villain as the first part and after watching the finale I have to say they completely wasted Dio in that arc. He's a great villain, not because he has elaborate plans or motivations, but because he's just such a colossal dick. He basically carried Part 1 on his back because he has such great screen presence as a character, but instead of actually using him to do anything, they keep him off screen for forty+ episodes and effectively remove him from the story until the ending. Also why was his face always framed in shadow? There's no reveal there, we already know who he is.  Well no, I do get why they did that, they're trying to build him up as a near mythic figure, which isn't a bad idea for a villain, but it just doesn't suit a character like Dio. All his strengths come from how low, petty and punchable he is. He's the kind of character that needs to be on stage hamming it up, actively building up the characters and audience's resentment instead of passively being built up as a threat.

Also oldman Joestar totally should have become a vampire at the end.

[Von Ithipathachai]

The main thing that annoyed me about Stardust Crusaders was the large number of asspulls.  The Justice and Wheel of Fortune fights stand (ha ha) out to me as particularly bad.

[indigoasis]

Part 3 is a good part in it's own right, and it's probably one of the most important parts in JoJo for it's introduction of stands and steering the series in a different direction from then on. However, I can definitely agree that Part 3 is more or less just filler and a total slog to go through. It also doesn't help that Part 3 had really poor pacing, and a lot of the locations (for me at least) were pretty barren and uninteresting to look it due to the muted colors most settings and characters had (an exception being the Death 13 arc and others). There's no way that it could compare to the color explosion jazz fest that was Part 2, but Part 2 was so absolutely ridiculous that you can't not love it.

Anyway, Part 4 is something to look forward to if you haven't watched it yet. It's arguably the most useless part since it takes place in a rural town and doesn't compare to the worldwide scale that the previous parts had (except maybe Part 1), but that's what I think what adds to its charm. Its also a lot more colorful, especially with its piss colored sky.

[NobodiePichu]

11 hours ago, Jotari said:

So about six months ago I made this thread

There I expressed my dissatisfaction with Jojo's Bizzare Adventure part 3 for basically throwing out everything that proceeded it. Now, half a year later (that time frame is kind of telling where this will go) I've finally finished it and I'm no more pleased with it (spoilers for a ~30 year old manga ahead). So much of that arc was pointless villain of the week action scenes that contributed absolutely nothing to the story. I'm the kind of person who like fight scenes with a lot of narrative build up and weight (something Part 2 did a lot better), even if their creative or well animated, it just doesn't work if i'm not invested. The characters were likeable enough but when you throw so much at them it eliminates all sense of weight to the actual fights as I know there's basically no chance of them dying. The exception being of course the fight were Polnareff finally avenges his sister and Abdul gets killed. That was great, but then they went and brought Abdul back which completely ruined any suspense until the finale. Abdul also did absolutely nothing until he died again, something that happened so ridiculously quickly and in a non definitive way that I didn't even believe he was actually  dead until Vanilla Ice was defeated (that aside, the Vanilla Ice fight and finale were actually pretty damn amazing).

In the prior thread I complained about how it didn't feel like the same show despite having the same villain as the first part and after watching the finale I have to say they completely wasted Dio in that arc. He's a great villain, not because he has elaborate plans or motivations, but because he's just such a colossal dick. He basically carried Part 1 on his back because he has such great screen presence as a character, but instead of actually using him to do anything, they keep him off screen for forty+ episodes and effectively remove him from the story until the ending. Also why was his face always framed in shadow? There's no reveal there, we already know who he is.  Well no, I do get why they did that, they're trying to build him up as a near mythic figure, which isn't a bad idea for a villain, but it just doesn't suit a character like Dio. All his strengths come from how low, petty and punchable he is. He's the kind of character that needs to be on stage hamming it up, actively building up the characters and audience's resentment instead of passively being built up as a threat.

Also oldman Joestar totally should have become a vampire at the end.

 

 

Honestly i feel your overblowing parts one and two a bit to much. they were good certainly but i would say that part 3 was overall better just due to having a stronger central narrative, tighter pacing and construction, stronger character growth and dynamics, and giving room for its other characters and themes to fucking breathe by locking dio in a fucking closet making his time spent on screen all the sweeter. plus part 3 has better battles.

and no oldman joseph becoming a vampire would have been fucking stupid in a bad way, not fucking stupid in a good way.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, NobodiePichu said:

 

 

Honestly i feel your overblowing parts one and two a bit to much. they were good certainly but i would say that part 3 was overall better just due to having a stronger central narrative, tighter pacing and construction, stronger character growth and dynamics, and giving room for its other characters and themes to fucking breathe by locking dio in a fucking closet making his time spent on screen all the sweeter. plus part 3 has better battles.

and no oldman joseph becoming a vampire would have been fucking stupid in a bad way, not fucking stupid in a good way.

Imo Part 3 didn't have a narrative. The story was "Stop Dio," and 35 episodes later it's still "Stop Dio," with physical distance being the only progress having been made. You literally could have cut half the fights and nothing would have been lost, not even characterisation.

And in regards the Joseph being a vampire, that's just a desire for consistency. Other people who consumed Dio's blood became vampires, Joseph should have too. They don't even address this possibility beyond Joseph making a joke out of it. Even then they should have asked him how he felt and shown some worry about exposing him to sunlight.

Edited January 12, 2019 by Jotari

[ProfImpossible]

Part three is no masterpiece (it's evident that Araki's just making some stuff up as he goes along), but it's just an introduction to the greater part of JoJo's (and the masterpiece that part 7 is). If you just watch the first 3 parts than it seems like the oddball, but in the scheme of things it's parts 1 and 2 that are the outliers. They're just prequels/side arcs.

15 hours ago, Jotari said:

The story was "Stop Dio," and 35 episodes later it's still "Stop Dio,"

That's the whole story of part one too. And part two is also the same you just replace Dio with the Pillarmen. The only difference is it's paced in twelve episodes instead of forty. It keeps things moving I guess, but those parts feel really rushed and haphazard to me. There's no time to build any tension.

 

Anyways, I'll the same thing I did in the last thread, which is even if part 3 wasn't particularly your jam, you should give 4 (and 5) a shot. Part Four is where Jojo's really starts to become JoJo's, and part five has one the best stories of any part. But also, if it's not your thing it's not your thing, and that's fine.

[Jotari]

7 hours ago, ProfImpossible said:

 

That's the whole story of part one too. And part two is also the same you just replace Dio with the Pillarmen. The only difference is it's paced in twelve episodes instead of forty. It keeps things moving I guess, but those parts feel really rushed and haphazard to me. There's no time to build any tension.

I disagree. Part 1 has a lot of foundation for it. Half of the story is set up for Dio and Johnathan learning their respective powers. The last episode on the ship (which is like 10% of the arc considering its so short) is also rapidly different and even in the active part of the arc there's new developments with characters dying and new characters appearing. That part of the arc is also only about twice as long as a lot of the stand battles in Part 3.

Comparing it to Part 3 nets even less similarities. For starts, the pillar men aren't even the villain at the start of the series, Straizo is. And then it's a Nazi. Only when Santana and JoJo meet do the pillar men become the villains and even then Santana a is treated differently in the narrative, being more a mystery than anything else. Finally when they go to Italy the story gets its true villains, but after a disastrous first encounter the story focus isnt "Stop the pillar men" in anything beyond a broader aim, the direct focus is on "prepare for the pillar men" as JoJo and Ceaser train. After the ACDC fight the aim is to get the Red Stone of Ajia before it reaches the other pillar men. Only once that's secured a few episodes later do they finally settle into a direct confrontation (which isn't even their go to choice as they're not sure they're can beat the pillar men). At any point in the story the characters have something they're trying to accomplish or achieve and removing that episode would leave a hole in the story. While throughout the entirety of part 3 the goal in ever episode is to just survive the current encounter and move towards Dio's location. The broader goal of the story and the narrower goal of the story are identical. They could get away with it if it was very heavily character based, but there's virtually no character arcs. Polnereff and Iggy are the only ones to have any sort of development.  The cast don't even get noticeably better with their stands (with the obvious exception of Jotaro in the final fight) .

Part 1 and 2 arent masterpieces,  but every single  encounter in them is meaningful in some way.  All Part 3 is is endless fights without any meaning to their progress. In that regard it would make a much better video game story (and there is an RPG of it on the SNES apperantly).

Edited January 13, 2019 by Jotari

[ProfImpossible]

Agree to disagree I guess :D

You make good points. However choppy the story is I guess I just like the basic elements of part three better than one and two though. To me it seems brighter and more exciting, what with all the different stands and locations . I definitely enjoy the monster of the week format more than most though.

 

 

 

[Jotari]

17 hours ago, ProfImpossible said:

Agree to disagree I guess :D

You make good points. However choppy the story is I guess I just like the basic elements of part three better than one and two though. To me it seems brighter and more exciting, what with all the different stands and locations . I definitely enjoy the monster of the week format more than most though.

 

 

 

Well I wouldn't disparage someone for liking Part 3, that's just the way I viewed it (by the way, judging from your Avatar and Member Title that you have very, very good taste).

Edited January 14, 2019 by Jotari

[ProfImpossible]

On 1/14/2019 at 4:32 AM, Jotari said:

Well I wouldn't disparage someone for liking Part 3, that's just the way I viewed it (by the way, judging from your Avatar and Member Title that you have very, very good taste).

Yeah me too ( except switch out 3 for 1&2).  

Why thank you.