LuxSpes Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Othin said: That does seem like the most logical conclusion. That said: even if a banner makes a lot of money for them, if it generates a lot of frustration among the players, it can hurt Heroes in the long run. Driving off players who aren't interested, getting public backlash that makes Heroes look bad, and building up frustrations so that there will be an even bigger response the next time they release a banner with the similar issues. I want Heroes to be around for as long as it can be, but it seems they keep throwing away long-term sustainability in favor of quick cash. It's unfortunate, and I hope enough of a response can get their attention about how much of an issue it is. That's the definite impression I'm getting. A lot of FEH recent decisions, be it in terms of units, skills and game modes, definitely look like they're fueled by short term greed. A lot of people seems to be holding on hope that this anniversary's gonna bring some massive changes that will show a change in direction by IS, but I'm personally not holding my breath for that. I think it's entirely possible the game will see a drop in its player base if there's nothing to turn things around in the next few months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Druid Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, Alkaid said: I think people are clinging too heavily to that, as well as the opinions of hardcore players on forums like this one. I don't think it's unfair to say these places can be pretty echo chamber-y. I get the impression the average casual player may not be nearly as bothered with alts, Fates/Awakening or powercreep, while more vocal people are out for blood bombing dislikes and while people neutral or positive don't even leave feedback often. (it usually works that way for almost anything) Lyn and Lucina's banner trailers got trashed, yet they still sold well (judging off app rankings), and the same for even the Adrift banner. Like even if 9/10 people on Serenes hated Lyn, she'd still be one of the most popular FE characters. I agree they do plan out banners months ahead of time, but considering the alt complains have been happening well throughout this year and they've now added an entirely new seasonal at a new time for this year, and it's Fates on top of it, I don't think they're seeing a big issue yet. Perhaps they're actually doing poorly, I can't really say, but I just think their business people probably know better than we do for what's been selling when they organize new stuff. That is true. I forgot that people who are content with a product are less likely to leave feedback a la like to dislike ratios. Did the Adrift banner really do that well? I remember reading that Dragalia outsold FEH in November and FEH's profits went down that month. However, that could have also been due to the Fire & Ice banner, since the drop rate on those units was more generous because it only had 2 focus units. I definitely agree they do have a better idea of what's popular and what's not. Perhaps we'll see if there's less Fates alts as the year goes on. I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interdimensional Observer Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 16 minutes ago, IS Bath Salts HQ said: I'm having too much fun admittedly hahaha. Well we're in the Luxendarc Airship Rubadub together then! Full steam ahead! -But keep the water warm helmswoman! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YotsuMaboroshi Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 18 minutes ago, Kaden said: My only question is how does Elise's hair even work? Also, I find it amusing that our first two free ranged fliers are Aversa and hot springs Camilla. Watch Loki be our next free flying ranged unit. Take Elise's normal hairstyle, then turn them into loops, with the end of each twintail tied to the start of that tail, up next to her head. Good luck figuring out how to do Elise's normal hairstyle though. That'd be the hardest part. Fortunately for Elise, she's a fictional character and doesn't actually have to worry about that stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenovia Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Had a good end to my night, saw the Pats win and logged onto Heroes to see we'll be getting a new Camilla as a reward. Cheers to the G.O.A.T quarterback and the G.O.A.T. Fire Emblem character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 I think I would pull only if Ryoma was drawn by Senri Kita. I like PenekoR, but their art style didn’t match Ryoma quite well. Everyone else is a pass, and Camilla is instantly given away for her skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkaid Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 11 minutes ago, Othin said: That does seem like the most logical conclusion. That said: even if a banner makes a lot of money for them, if it generates a lot of frustration among the players, it can hurt Heroes in the long run. Driving off players who aren't interested, getting public backlash that makes Heroes look bad, and building up frustrations so that there will be an even bigger response the next time they release a banner with the similar issues. I want Heroes to be around for as long as it can be, but it seems they keep throwing away long-term sustainability in favor of quick cash. It's unfortunate, and I hope enough of a response can get their attention about how much of an issue it is. I definitely agree there. I do wish they'd cater to people more evenly so more people can be happy, but outside of the visible youtube like/dislike ratio it's hard to say if those complaints have that much of an impact on the image of the game. Powercreep is an actual gameplay issue, but alts and what characters they add is being bad or not is completely up to each individual. Like for me, no matter how many complaints a new Camilla alt gets I won't be deterred since I like her and will be happy to get more of her. I don't beg for IS to spam her, but if they choose to make more I'll certainly take them. I'm sure there's plenty of Lyn, Hector and Eirika fans that feel the same way, and since those are among the top popular characters that's a lot of people. And not dissing the game or it's characters, but look how there was a lot of support for Leif and the Thracia banner last year, in great contrast to the dislike bombing of Adrift, LLyn, LLucina, etc. Yet it seemed to do by far the worst of any banners last year despite that. (again, going off rankings since that's the best we can tell) And they even added a strong Rein alt to seemingly help boost the banner for those familiar with him and not his game. I'm just saying that the vocal crowd doesn't always seem to reflect where the money goes, but IS is the one who has the actual data on that. To be fair, in the past year they've done more to even things out better, even if the Fates/Awakening lean is still there, but it's mostly been improving.(now powercreep's speed is the real concern of late) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lau Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Oh dear... At least Elise got another alt, which means that Leo of all people is now the most shafted Fates Royal, hahah! This is an easy skip - I don't like Ryoma or Hinoka, Sakura is cute but I honestly don't care about her, Elise is my child but she can't hold a candle to Reyson and Tibarn, and Camilla is free, sooo... :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 34 minutes ago, colossus86 said: It makes perfect sense if you think about it, so many existing seasonal themes already have Fates representation its hard to believe that they can keep putting Fates units into them. And clearly we have a yearly quota to meet regarding fates representation (both in terms of new units and alts). Thus IS came to the ingenious solution of creating a brand new seasonal theme entirely to create space for more Fates alts. I can only applaud the audacity of IS, and cant wait to see what they get up to next. Now I'm curious. Over the course of the first year of Heroes, we got 15 Fates seasonals plus 4 Fates characters on the New Heroes banner, for a total of 19. As we wrap up the second year, we've now gotten 12 Fates seasonals plus 5 Adrift units, 10 from the two normal Fates banners, and 2 legendaries, for a total of... 29. 20 minutes ago, Baldrick said: Given how long they have been pursing this kind of strategy, I believe it is feasible in the long term. At the very least, it won’t do fatal damage to the game no matter how long they keep it up. Gachas aren't really built to last. Heroes will become unsustainable eventually, that's not avoidable, and banners like this accelerate the process in favor of increasing profits while it's still around. Will it kill Heroes faster than it's "supposed" to? We'll have to see. Except we won't really see either way, since even in retrospect, there's too much of that that we won't have any real way to evaluate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottlegnomes Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Well, my blinding rage over this banner existing has actually made me not even remotely annoyed that it's all Fates. That's an interesting sensation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilda Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Dont care anymore. Will just grab my popcorn and be amused a little bit by this banner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interdimensional Observer Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, Othin said: Except we won't really see either way, since even in retrospect, there's too much of that that we won't have any real way to evaluate. So then the developers will have no lessons to learn the next time and they'll just do the same? Being unable to draw lessons from history, they will be doomed to repeat it until something. But who knows what that something is? 2 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said: Well, my blinding rage over this banner existing has actually made me not even remotely annoyed that it's all Fates. That's an interesting sensation. It's like capsaicin, the hot chemical compound in chiles. Sure it can cause burns and blisters, but at the same time, used in proper medical applications, it can be an analgesic pain reliever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenovia Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Salt will always be funny. I can't imagine getting so upset that I'd log onto some forum and write long angry screeds complaining about games. Just save your orbs and wait until a banner you like comes out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sire Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 *eats popcorn on the sidelines* Times like this make me somewhat glad I dropped FEH. I know heroes and the like are set in stone for months in advance, so I don't know how much longer it'll take for IS to integrate the feedback received (provided they listen any). I remember last year they revealed the dates for Radiant Dawn (now released) and Binding Blade banners (in March?). Due to how far ahead they plan things, I don't expect any overhauls until May or so. Still, I have little faith that FEH will "improve," at least from my perspective. On a positive note, at least we got Ryoma out of this banner. We had plenty of fanservice from female characters, so it is nice to see at least some from the male ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Anacybele said: Wow, the dislike bar really is massive and on both the English AND Japanese videos. Hopefully this says something to IS. Those saying IS still hasn't learned though, keep in mind that each banner appears to be started six months in advance since lines are recorded that much in advance. So IS was working on this back in late summer while Adrift was being worked on at the start of summer. By the time our feedback got to them on Adrift and legend Azura and all, it was too late to turn back. In a few months time, we should see signs that they learned. It's a wait, but it'd be better than them not learning. I'm hopeful, but I wouldn't hold my breath. 1 hour ago, Von Ithipathachai said: Oof I wish we could figure out how much money all these Fates royalty banners are making. The dislike bar shows a vocal reaction, but money doesn't lie about whether people are willing to spend money on Orbs for these banners and encourage more of this crap. BINGO. Those who are unhappy and buy orbs should not purchase anything during this banner's run. I think that will send a stronger message to IS. . .assuming enough people do this (KHUX tried this, and it ended badly). 54 minutes ago, IS Bath Salts HQ said: Never a bad time to meme about stuff going on, (I do like the art though). . . .did you just win the thread? I think you won the thread. 21 minutes ago, LuxSpes said: That's the definite impression I'm getting. A lot of FEH recent decisions, be it in terms of units, skills and game modes, definitely look like they're fueled by short term greed. A lot of people seems to be holding on hope that this anniversary's gonna bring some massive changes that will show a change in direction by IS, but I'm personally not holding my breath for that. I think it's entirely possible the game will see a drop in its player base if there's nothing to turn things around in the next few months. I think that's very likely. Powecreep is a thing, but I'd rather see new characters as the powercreep (like the laguz). --- I want that Hinoka! She sounds as grumpy as I feel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottlegnomes Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Interdimensional Observer said: It's like capsaicin, the hot chemical compound in chiles. Sure it can cause burns and blisters, but at the same time, used in proper medical applications, it can be an analgesic pain reliever. This legitimately made my night. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redlight Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 9 minutes ago, Alkaid said: I definitely agree there. I do wish they'd cater to people more evenly so more people can be happy, but outside of the visible youtube like/dislike ratio it's hard to say if those complaints have that much of an impact on the image of the game. Powercreep is an actual gameplay issue, but alts and what characters they add is being bad or not is completely up to each individual. Like for me, no matter how many complaints a new Camilla alt gets I won't be deterred since I like her and will be happy to get more of her. I don't beg for IS to spam her, but if they choose to make more I'll certainly take them. I'm sure there's plenty of Lyn, Hector and Eirika fans that feel the same way, and since those are among the top popular characters that's a lot of people. And not dissing the game or it's characters, but look how there was a lot of support for Leif and the Thracia banner last year, in great contrast to the dislike bombing of Adrift, LLyn, LLucina, etc. Yet it seemed to do by far the worst of any banners last year despite that. (again, going off rankings since that's the best we can tell) And they even added a strong Rein alt to seemingly help boost the banner for those familiar with him and not his game. I'm just saying that the vocal crowd doesn't always seem to reflect where the money goes, but IS is the one who has the actual data on that. To be fair, in the past year they've done more to even things out better, even if the Fates/Awakening lean is still there, but it's mostly been improving.(now powercreep's speed is the real concern of late) You sure about Thracia? It did about as well as Muspell banner in the west and really well in Japan, on par or even better than Lewyn's banner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 . . .okay, stop for a sec. See every post before this one? It's within the acceptable salt range. You guys have been handling yourselves well. Please keep it up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 10 minutes ago, Othin said: Gachas aren't really built to last. Heroes will become unsustainable eventually, that's not avoidable, and banners like this accelerate the process in favor of increasing profits while it's still around. Gachas are a money-making scheme, they last as long as they make money. Increasing profits will keep the gacha alive for longer, not kill it faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaden Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 I just realized something when I looked at hot springs Camilla's sprite again: Camilla in a ponytail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilda Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 I want to note: Its funny how IS thinks that throwing a bunch of inheritable daggers is gonna fix the fundamental problem that class has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 10 minutes ago, eclipse said: . .did you just win the thread? I think you won the thread. I dno about that! But I thought it was hilarious at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interdimensional Observer Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said: This legitimately made my night. Thank you. Happy to help! I've been trying beneath a little dislike to bring some levity to this topic. A dried seabed is desolate and hard, but lift the grains up and saline air ain't so bad, some love it even. 17 minutes ago, eclipse said: . .did you just win the thread? I think you won the thread. Can I be a judge too? He'll get my vote as well. 19 minutes ago, Xenovia said: Just save your orbs and wait until a banner you like comes out. I actually did that for an entire year myself. Just login every day, every SH/NH you skip, its another 13 Summonspheres if I have it right. Plus additional bonuses. The further one goes in from casual play, the more the agony of "bad" banners are. Take a more transient view of this game, and it isn't so horrible. What do I care about some colorless ocean? Just having Nailah makes me happy, just having Reyson makes me happy. I don't need much, not their art, not their VAs, not their quips, all I need is somebody named and looking kinda like them and I'm good. And as long as there is some mindless fun those characters can have. But that's just me I admit. Aw darn! I forgot there is a blood moon outside right now! Gotta go look at it. Next isn't until 2022! Then I must strip and the stand on the dais in time, I need that Spirit Orb. Edited January 21, 2019 by Interdimensional Observer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaden Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, Hilda said: I want to note: Its funny how IS thinks that throwing a bunch of inheritable daggers is gonna fix the fundamental problem that class has. When was the last inheritable dagger that wasn't seasonal locked and/or doesn't require Heroic Grails? I think it was Legault, but I might be missing someone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkaid Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 10 minutes ago, redlight said: You sure about Thracia? It did about as well as Muspell banner in the west and really well in Japan, on par or even better than Lewyn's banner The Muspell one was like the other bad-ish one this year. (I guess due to the rates though, since we all know everyone still has a +10 Surtr.. or 4) I believe the banner ranking thing I saw a while back was gauging the overall value across multiple app stores' data, but no I can't double check the graphs that were pulled from subscription sites they used. I think my point that what vocal people did or didn't support wasn't always representative of sales still stands, though. 10 minutes ago, Kaden said: I just realized something when I looked at hot springs Camilla's sprite again: Camilla in a ponytail. I noticed that too. It's also weird to see her on a pegasus and not a wyvern. Her hair looks nice in the sprite, so I hope the art is good too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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