Special Heroes Arrive!! Hostile Springs (Jan. 23 ~)

[Hilda]

5 minutes ago, Xenovia said:

They just put Hot Springs Camilla in there to satiate the many fans who were upset Camilla wasn't a character in Smash.

I wonder if one can rename Camilla into „Boobzilla: Queen of Feh“? hm...

[Hilda]

10 hours ago, Kaden said:

When was the last inheritable dagger that wasn't seasonal locked and/or doesn't require Heroic Grails? I think it was Legault, but I might be missing someone.

seasonals count too

we had the dancer daggers, kagerox2 Linde, Takumi, Legault, Kaze, Cecilia and now this. none of them fixed the clasd

[Ice Dragon]

4 hours ago, Garlyle said:

I just went back to check the YouTube Likes/Dislikes.

Out of the last 8 banners, 4 videos got more dislikes so far. 1 was Surtr, the other 3 were Fates banners.

Isn't this a clue to the company? I'm pretty sure they should understand the connection between these numbers.

Not really. There is probably little or no correlation between the number of dislikes and the amount of sales. The number of dislikes tells you nothing about how many people are willing to buy your product.

 

1 hour ago, Water Mage said:

I said Saberface, because despite being expies, these design are obviously trying to take advantage Saber’s popularity.

The only actual alts in F/GO are the seasonal versions of characters. Those alts are, in fact, the same person as the original dressed up in a different outfit.

Any other "alts" as you claim them to be are entirely separate characters with different backgrounds and different personalities (except maybe Arturia Lily). Saying they are alts is roughly equivalent to saying that Raigh is an alt of Lugh. Heck, Raigh and Lugh even have the same name in the original Japanese, just with one in Welsh (Lleu, localized as "Raigh" for no good reason) and the other in Irish (Lugh).

Edited January 21, 2019 by Ice Dragon

[redlight]

11 minutes ago, Azure Sen said:

Altria is the exception rather than the rule in FGO, with most characters that do have multiple versions having 2-4 versions at most.

Let me just add them here with explanations for others to understand alts better. These are just ones I managed to find with quick research. I'm leaving out summer alts for characters  with the exception of Jeanne.

• Liz has 4 versions of herself with 3 of them being annual halloween freebies. You can count Carmilla as well if you want as her story is based off of Liz's and in the First Singularity Liz talked about how Carmilla is her future self or something.
• Jeanne has 5, but Jalter was a villain in the first singularity way before she became summonable as well as both Summer variants were released 3 years in at the same time with one of them being free. There's also Jalter Lily, but she's supposed to be a joke. She's also free. Jalter is also way different, feeling betrayed by God and has become evil to spite him.
• Emiya has a more dark and ruthless version of him that's well... black (sorry) and uses guns.
• Atalanta has a alter version 3 years in that's actually based on one of her NP from Apocrypha.
• Medusa has two alts that are more faithful to her story: the gorgon and her loli form before like her sisters.
• Ereshkigal is Ishtar's sister that's also inhabiting the same body as her..
• Cu Chulainn has a "younger" version of him that's actually the scrapped version of him from Fate/prototype and his berserker alt is way way different from himself due to him actually being transformed into someone else's desire.
• Schathach and Skadi I'm not too familiar with (I am aware of Skadi's connection with Scathach), but they're different people from what I can gather.
• Vlad Extra is actually the first canon one if I'm not mistaken. The Apocrypha one was originally scrapped for a failed online rpg project, but got later reused for the novel.
• Iskandar has youthful version of himself that uses a different name and is of a different age.
• Gilles... is because Jeanne.
• Medea Lily is youthful version of Medea that's supposed to be her when she betrayed her family (she's still aware of her entire life tho).
• Da Vinci bcs spoilers.
• Gilgamesh has a wiser and more mature version of him after he returned from his quest for immortality.
• Ibaraki Douji is a halloween freebie.
• As is santa Altera.
• Hassans are all actually different people who have taken the name.
• Shiki has a freebie and a premium version of herself, but both were released around the same time. I think the saber one is supposed to be a hidden personality in Shiki that's primordial in nature or something.
• Lancelot has his regular form bcs he's relevant for the story and is required to explain a few things.
• I have no idea why Kintoki has 2 versions of himself, but one of them is arguably the best free servants in the game so I'll take it.
• Quetza santa is free. 

[Midnox]

5 hours ago, Dandy Druid said:

I would be careful with the hasty generalizations. The main reason they probably included Camilla is that they think she sells well, not that she's the personification of Japan's "ideal wife", which is arguable.

If a character makes them a lot of money, they're going to use that character. Plain and simple. I wouldn't read too far into her inclusion.

But there’s a reason on why she sell well in a sea of beautiful and caring women tho

[Othin]

7 hours ago, Baldrick said:

If the sustainability of Heroes depends on what new banners it has from month to month, there is no such thing as long-term sustainability. There are only banners that make a profit and banners that make a loss.

Banners don't exist in a vacuum. How much money they make depends on the player base at that moment. If they drive away players who might spend money on a later banner, those players will no longer spend that money. And if they make players sick of particular kinds of banners, that'll hurt those kinds of banners in the future.

[Mackc2]

5 hours ago, ZeManaphy said:

Not to mention that Camilla fits the role of what most Japanese men like: She’s doting, caring, and willing to do chores. She’s even sexy to boot! Japanese men traditionally have stressful lives with long office hours, ( In Japan it’s considered informal by many to leave office before your boss. ) so they naturally want someone who can take care of them. Camilla fits that perfectly. And Japan is IS’s biggest priority.... Yeah, I doubt we’re getting a break from Camilla anytime soon.

Let's not forget camilla is also a psychopath willing to murder the avatar when she can't be with them and willing to murder anyone that opposes them when she can, people tend to ignore that bit about her 

[Water Mage]

Guess I didn’t understand the whole Gacha and alt culture yet. It’s just that she so many characters based off her, I thought of them as alts. Guess it would more apt to say Saber is more like Pikachu than Camilla? As in, there the pikaclones and things like Detective Pikachu, Pikachu Libre and the other ORAS costumes. But honestly, while I normal for every franchise to have cash cow, Saber is kinda insane as far cash cows go.

[Landmaster]

7 hours ago, Lewyn said:

How nice we have Elise and Sakura there too, total lolicon bait a classy audience to cater to.  I guess there are a good amount of whales that are lolicons, considering whales are people with a lot of money....

 

I'd argue there's clearly not a lot of whales who like lolis as opposed to the big breasted women seeing as we get a far less amount of new lolis than the latter (2 Kageros last year for example)~ This is the first alt for Elise and Sakura since 2017~ They clearly don't make IS as much money~

[Mackc2]

8 minutes ago, Landmaster said:

I'd argue there's clearly not a lot of whales who like lolis as opposed to the big breasted women seeing as we get a far less amount of new lolis than the latter (2 Kageros last year for example)~ This is the first alt for Elise and Sakura since 2017~ They clearly don't make IS as much money~

Your argument is flawed, with big breasted women they use the same two characters (kagero and camilla) over and over again, but with lolis they spread it out a bit more, almost every seasonal banner has had some loli in it but it's never the same Loli

[Xenovia]

1 hour ago, Hilda said:

I wonder if one can rename Camilla into „Boobzilla: Queen of Feh“? hm...

My username atm is Mega Milk and I lead with Cowmilla, so I guess that fits.

9 minutes ago, Landmaster said:

I'd argue there's clearly not a lot of whales who like lolis as opposed to the big breasted women seeing as we get a far less amount of new lolis than the latter (2 Kageros last year for example)~ This is the first alt for Elise and Sakura since 2017~ They clearly don't make IS as much money~

I'm not a whale but I spent some money to get the Kagero alts, so your statement checks out.  I'm indifferent to lolis personally, but I think the internet 'culture' around them is amusing.  

 

 

Considering how popular FEH is, I wonder if IS will implement a system similar to Pokemon Go/Let's Go where units can be transferred between games.  In 6 months tune into my YT Let's Play where I beat Three Houses with my six Camillas.

 

[DraceEmpressa]

6 minutes ago, Water Mage said:

Guess I didn’t understand the whole Gacha and alt culture yet. It’s just that she so many characters based off her, I thought of them as alts. Guess it would more apt to say Saber is more like Pikachu than Camilla? As in, there the pikaclones and things like Detective Pikachu, Pikachu Libre and the other ORAS costumes. But honestly, while I normal for every franchise to have cash cow, Saber is kinda insane as far cash cows go.

FEH was also my first gacha but I can understand it well because google.

Expies are different from alts. Expies are characters based on x but are not x themselves, sharing similarity be it in design, personality, role, but expy is not x themselves. Meanwhile, alts are x themselves , the same person, with difference in gameplay (there's always that), and sometimes of also other aspects like age, personality, but it is the same person. 

Example: Azura is an expy of Ninian. But not alt of her. She is her own person with her own alt. Lolizura however, is the same person with Azura, thus is an alt of Azura.

technically speaking, yes, it is more accurate to say  saberfaces to Nasu franchise = pikaclones of Nintendo. In franchise expies, character based on x , but not x themselves and is milked dry. 

Also, in terms of subtlety? yes it's not there. In terms of amount tho? SE keep making Sephiroth expies , putting him in all crossover,...Yeah.I also heard that in one DB gacha that Goku and Goha  have like 15+ alt each. 

[Landmaster]

7 minutes ago, Mackc2 said:

Your argument is flawed, with big breasted women they use the same two characters (kagero and camilla) over and over again, but with lolis they spread it out a bit more, almost every seasonal banner has had some loli in it but it's never the same Loli

No Banner last year had any barely clothed loli unless I'm missing someone~

[Tybrosion]

11 minutes ago, Landmaster said:

No Banner last year had any barely clothed loli unless I'm missing someone~

Summer Y!Tiki was the closest one last year had, and even then I don’t think she even counts. 

If people want to think they’re trying to sexualize the little sisters here then fine. However, I still hold the right to call complete bullshit on that idea. That, and we seriously don’t need whining about that when the whining about Fates (while understandable) is incessant enough on its own.

[SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre]

People just dig Camilla. I have yet to have an artist sway me to consider her hot in any sense, but most other males seem like the big boobs. And with freaking hot springs being the theme,  she's going to make it somehow, even as a freebie. It's a way to get people to spend money to stay atop in Aether Raids so they get enough grails to +10 her.

Edited January 21, 2019 by SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre

[Usana]

This banner is a big meh for me. I mean Hinoka is nice and all so I'll do a free pull/tickets on green. But I just don't feel excited about this one at all. Not sure if it is the banner or if I am starting to burn out on FE. Hopefully it is just fates burnout though.

[Anacybele]

I think I'll use the free pull/tickets on red and blue, since I love Ryoma and Elise is the cutest little sister besides Mist imo. I don't need this Hinoka as much, though I like her as a character. I have Yukata Elincia who has the exact same niche in a dragon-slaying green dagger. And Elincia also has the benefit of being a dancer.

Edited January 21, 2019 by Anacybele

[Jave]

As far as women with noticeable chests there’s also Tharja and most recently Cecilia. And let’s not even pretend Loki doesn’t count. She’s getting at least two alts this year, mark my words. 

[Fabulously Olivier]

I'm okay with this. I need skip banners to save for Binding Blade banner (here's hoping for Wolt and Percival).

[Magical Glace]

1 hour ago, redlight said:

Let me just add them here with explanations for others to understand alts better. These are just ones I managed to find with quick research. I'm leaving out summer alts for characters  with the exception of Jeanne.

• Liz has 4 versions of herself with 3 of them being annual halloween freebies. You can count Carmilla as well if you want as her story is based off of Liz's and in the First Singularity Liz talked about how Carmilla is her future self or something.
• Jeanne has 5, but Jalter was a villain in the first singularity way before she became summonable as well as both Summer variants were released 3 years in at the same time with one of them being free. There's also Jalter Lily, but she's supposed to be a joke. She's also free. Jalter is also way different, feeling betrayed by God and has become evil to spite him.
• Emiya has a more dark and ruthless version of him that's well... black (sorry) and uses guns.
• Atalanta has a alter version 3 years in that's actually based on one of her NP from Apocrypha.
• Medusa has two alts that are more faithful to her story: the gorgon and her loli form before like her sisters.
• Ereshkigal is Ishtar's sister that's also inhabiting the same body as her..
• Cu Chulainn has a "younger" version of him that's actually the scrapped version of him from Fate/prototype and his berserker alt is way way different from himself due to him actually being transformed into someone else's desire.
• Schathach and Skadi I'm not too familiar with (I am aware of Skadi's connection with Scathach), but they're different people from what I can gather.
• Vlad Extra is actually the first canon one if I'm not mistaken. The Apocrypha one was originally scrapped for a failed online rpg project, but got later reused for the novel.
• Iskandar has youthful version of himself that uses a different name and is of a different age.
• Gilles... is because Jeanne.
• Medea Lily is youthful version of Medea that's supposed to be her when she betrayed her family (she's still aware of her entire life tho).
• Da Vinci bcs spoilers.
• Gilgamesh has a wiser and more mature version of him after he returned from his quest for immortality.
• Ibaraki Douji is a halloween freebie.
• As is santa Altera.
• Hassans are all actually different people who have taken the name.
• Shiki has a freebie and a premium version of herself, but both were released around the same time. I think the saber one is supposed to be a hidden personality in Shiki that's primordial in nature or something.
• Lancelot has his regular form bcs he's relevant for the story and is required to explain a few things.
• I have no idea why Kintoki has 2 versions of himself, but one of them is arguably the best free servants in the game so I'll take it.
• Quetza santa is free. 

Nitpick, but you forgot Diarmuid, whose alt was basically a mistake in a trailer (that was also in an old datamine) that got memed for two years before they threw him in for the Zero collab's rerun.

 

Edit: Also, Shuten was Halloween Freebie, not Ibaraki.  I wish it was Ibaraki, though.

Edited January 21, 2019 by Glaceon Mage

[Tolvir]

Im sad to see the game get to this point tbh. I love Fates, I love the cast of Fates. Looking outside of the games current issues and only this summoning focus by itself, I like this one.

But with all the Fates rush over the past 6 months alone, the 6th Camilla alt, and this summoning focus replacing what was a normal summoning focus last year, its just a mess. Its especially unfortunate for Hinoka here because this is actually her first seasonal alt. But because this is the 6th Camilla and 4th Ryoma, and a royal dominated focus in general it overshadows that.

This summoning focus should have just been mixed, it could have used Hinoka to set that the "reason" for it being a hotsprings was that its in Hoshido, but they could have easily thrown in any number of non Fates seasonals, or at the very least non royals. Genealogy is still without, Tellius has only a few, SD, SoV, Elibe, any of them would have been decent choices for this.

The other issue here is just the planning in general. In the past 6 or so months alone, we have received more Camilla alts than we did in Year 1. In Year 1 of FEH we got the base version of Camilla, Spring Camilla, and if you want to argue it then the New Years version of Camilla. For the sake of this being about alts, the base version of Camilla doesnt really count. From July to now, we have received Summer Camilla. Adrift Camilla, and now Hot Springs Camilla. 6 months. And we got 3 alts for one character. I just dont see what the planning process was here.

Im not sure whats going on with IS, but this just doesnt make any sense. You cant even argue sales anymore, the sales have been declining throughout Year 2, and Year 2 is supposed to be when Gachas see an increase. Not a decrease.

[Landmaster]

48 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

I think I'll use the free pull/tickets on red and blue, since I love Ryoma and Elise is the cutest little sister besides Mist imo. I don't need this Hinoka as much, though I like her as a character. I have Yukata Elincia who has the exact same niche in a dragon-slaying green dagger. And Elincia also has the benefit of being a dancer.

Are there tickets for this Banner?

[Tolvir]

1 hour ago, Water Mage said:

Guess I didn’t understand the whole Gacha and alt culture yet. It’s just that she so many characters based off her, I thought of them as alts. Guess it would more apt to say Saber is more like Pikachu than Camilla? As in, there the pikaclones and things like Detective Pikachu, Pikachu Libre and the other ORAS costumes. But honestly, while I normal for every franchise to have cash cow, Saber is kinda insane as far cash cows go.

Most of the Saber alts arent even Saber. They arent even the same character, just similar look.

MHX and MHXX are completely separate, and as Azure had said are jokes. They have the same look, kind of, but that is the extent of their similarities. To go a bit more into it, MHX exists to hunt and kill all other "saber faces". Its a joke on the fact that there is the entire Saber Face situation because Takeuchi likes reusing the face so much.

Alter is a corrupted form of Altria, and is entirely her own character with her own personality and quirks. Again, the similarities pretty much end once you look past the design. Alter has 2 alts, but only one is directly her as well. That being her summer alt. Then you got Santa Alter, who is her own character again with her own personality and story. Again, she is mostly a joke character as all "season" based variants are for FGO, but still entirely different.

The only direct Altria/Artoria alt is her Summer version. And arguably her Lily version. Summer is literally just Artoria in a bikini and with a water gun. Lily is her younger self before becoming King.

Lancer Artoria is also her own thing, as she is from an alt reality. Completely different story and character.

To be honest, these "Artoria Alts" arent even alts. The only alts I would claim are hers directly are Lily, and Summer. The rest stand alone as their own entity.

And I dont personally see how this situation is insane. She is by far, the most popular Fate character. She is the first choice for crossovers, she is in every Fate game that can reasonably fit her in. Its no different than how Marvel uses Spiderman, or how DC uses Batman and Superman. They use the characters they know have 1, proven to sell and are a pillar of their franchise, and 2, people love to see. Its what any company does with the face of their product.

[GrandeRampel]

1 hour ago, Mackc2 said:

Your argument is flawed, with big breasted women they use the same two characters (kagero and camilla) over and over again,

Oh sure, the Tharja alts don't pander to breast lovers. It's not like Winter Cecilia and new year Gunnthra have big boobs. Let's not forget thag Lyn doesn't have at all a glorious chest in Heroes in her Valentine alt. Summer Noire and Tana? Never heard of them. You are full of sh*t to even suggest the lolis outnumber the women with huge racks. We get a big breasted woman almost every other banner, be it seasonal or not.

[Ice Dragon]

1 hour ago, Jave said:

As far as women with noticeable chests there’s also Tharja and most recently Cecilia. And let’s not even pretend Loki doesn’t count. She’s getting at least two alts this year, mark my words. 

Tharja's shtick is that she wears revealing clothes, not that she has a large chest because she actually doesn't.

 

55 minutes ago, Glaceon Mage said:

Nitpick, but you forgot Diarmuid, whose alt was basically a mistake in a trailer (that was also in an old datamine) that got memed for two years before they threw him in for the Zero collab's rerun.

If I remember correctly (but don't quote me on it), Diarmuid's saber version was previously mentioned in the accompanying material for Fate/Zero, and it was likely that after losing the catalyst for summoning Iskandar, Kayneth intended to summon Diarmuid in the stronger Saber class, but ended up stuck with the Lancer version instead.

Diarmuid in actual legend has all four of the weapons he uses as Noble Phantasms in Fate, the spears Gae Dearg and Gae Buidhe and the swords Moralltach and Beagalltach, so the Saber alt in Grand Order makes complete sense (similarly to Cu Chulainn's Lancer and Caster versions, for example).