The rights and wrongs of fanservice

[bethany81707]

10 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Silly, that's only for Cordelia. XD

Just how many of my favourite classic characters have been sneaking giant busts in? Shows how much I care about them.

[Ottservia]

21 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Silly, that's only for Cordelia. XD

in the words of her own daughter:

"...She's as flat as an undented kite shield...."

but flat is justice so

[Spatha]

Oh boy, and some of the recent comments here really drive my previous point very well.

It doesn't matter if her character design no longer fits with her character, station or is just generic, just seeing her skin no longer exposed is a good thing and it's "realistic".

 

You guys probably think this Tharja redesign is an improvement when compared with the original.

 

[omegaxis1]

Just now, Spatha said:

Oh boy, and some of the recent comments here really drive my previous point very well.

It doesn't matter if her character design no longer fits with her character, station or is just generic, just seeing her skin no longer exposed is a good thing and it's "realistic".

 

You guys probably think this Tharja redesign is an improvement when compared with the original.

 

 

Ehhh... I dunno. The thing about Tharja, is that thought her outfit is technically skimpy, it really isn't that bad. Maybe cause it wasn't shoved in our faces. Plus, she always has a closed body language canonically so she doesn't show it off.

[bethany81707]

24 minutes ago, Spatha said:

Oh boy, and some of the recent comments here really drive my previous point very well.

It doesn't matter if her character design no longer fits with her character, station or is just generic, just seeing her skin no longer exposed is a good thing and it's "realistic".

 

You guys probably think this Tharja redesign is an improvement when compared with the original.

 

I mean, if she was going for "Egyptian", I think this is actually closer. Plus, the desert excuse doesn't hold water (pardon the pun) when you think about just how bad black and fine fits the environment- something closer to white, and perhaps a bit looser, is what she should be going for.

[Spatha]

15 minutes ago, bethany81707 said:

I mean, if she was going for "Egyptian", I think this is actually closer. Plus, the desert excuse doesn't hold water (pardon the pun) when you think about just how bad black and fine fits the environment- something closer to white, and perhaps a bit looser, is what she should be going for.

What I'm getting at is the redesign I've posted not only bland and visually unappealing but the colors and design elements is bad. It also doesn't fit Tharja well.

Compare that with the original, the gold and black create a great visual contrast that makes her visually appealing that along with her body makes her recognizable. It also manages to characterize Tharja well as a suspicious and somehow creepy mage.

 

 

[bethany81707]

7 minutes ago, Spatha said:

What I'm getting at is the redesign I've posted not only bland and visually unappealing but the colors and design elements is bad. It also doesn't fit Tharja well.

Compare that with the original, the gold and black create a great visual contrast that makes her visually appealing that along with her body makes her recognizable. It also manages to characterize Tharja well as a suspicious and somehow creepy mage.

I claim the opposite. The black is bland and the gold doesn't create much contrast, while the white/purple descent looks pretty and I prefer the hairstyle.

Here's a character set up as attractive in-universe, has a desert theme and has a design I actually like. Surprisingly similar, now I see her again.

[Spatha]

19 minutes ago, bethany81707 said:

I claim the opposite. The black is bland and the gold doesn't create much contrast, while the white/purple descent looks pretty and I prefer the hairstyle.

Here's a character set up as attractive in-universe, has a desert theme and has a design I actually like. Surprisingly similar, now I see her again.

As I said before, not only the colors of the redesign looks bland and washed-out, purple and white doesn't fit with Tharja's character or her job as a dark mage.

Not only that,  the added clothing not only makes her completely unattractive, the additional clothing (especially in the chest) makes her look more like a caring mother figure or a refined lady. Again, not fitting Tharja's character at all.

Also, the character you've posted, by juding by her design alone. She is a cool and confident woman who is aware of her beauty. Right?

Then again, I'm comparing a redesign from amateur vs an artist with years of experience.

Still, I respect your opinion and I'm glad the debate regarding this is civil.

[bethany81707]

11 minutes ago, Spatha said:

Also, the character you've posted, by juding by her design alone. She is a cool and confident woman who is aware of her beauty. Right?

She's vain, giving herself multiple baths a day (reminder she is a desert queen) and using the magical Fygg she gets to supplement her bathwater to make her skin extra smooth.

Spoiler

Funnily enough, she feels on her lonesome, her only real friend being her pet lizard (who, after eating the Fygg, turns out to return the affection with interest.)

 

13 minutes ago, Spatha said:

As I said before, not only the colors of the redesign looks bland and washed-out, purple and white doesn't fit with Tharja's character or her job as a dark mage.

Not only that,  the added clothing not only makes her completely unattractive, the additional clothing (especially in the chest) makes her look more like a caring mother figure or a refined lady. Again, not fitting Tharja's character at all.

I wonder how much of my dissent is also partially because I dislike that these character traits were assigned to Tharja in the first place. Then again, Faye has a few of the same traits and has one of the cutests designs in Echoes without showing any skin.

[Spatha]

1 hour ago, bethany81707 said:

She's vain, giving herself multiple baths a day (reminder she is a desert queen) and using the magical Fygg she gets to supplement her bathwater to make her skin extra smooth.

  Reveal hidden contents

Funnily enough, she feels on her lonesome, her only real friend being her pet lizard (who, after eating the Fygg, turns out to return the affection with interest.)

 

 

Missed the mark. My first guess was a vain and arrogant beauty but the expressionless face threw me off.

1 hour ago, bethany81707 said:

I wonder how much of my dissent is also partially because I dislike that these character traits were assigned to Tharja in the first place. Then again, Faye has a few of the same traits and has one of the cutests designs in Echoes without showing any skin.

The differences between Faye and Tharja is that Tharja isn't limited to being "Robin's stalker" as a character trait.

Faye on the other, her obsession with Alm is her sole trait to the point the story portrays it in a sad note.

[Book Bro]

11 hours ago, Spatha said:

You guys probably think this Tharja redesign is an improvement when compared with the original.

If it was less frumpy and more form fitting it would probably look good. That's literally Henry's clothes, so do your complaints about the colours and style not fitting a desert dark mage apply to him too?

This is a better example of a good Tharja redesign:

http://shadowofchaos725.tumblr.com/post/142908852521/jaeon009-tharja-senri-kita-ish-style-sorry

Fits her personality more than the other one, makes sense as a Plegian outfit, and fits her class type.

[omegaxis1]

6 minutes ago, Book Bro said:

If it was less frumpy and more form fitting it would probably look good. That's literally Henry's clothes, so do your complaints about the colours and style not fitting a desert dark mage apply to him too?

This is a better example of a good Tharja redesign:

http://shadowofchaos725.tumblr.com/post/142908852521/jaeon009-tharja-senri-kita-ish-style-sorry

Fits her personality more than the other one, makes sense as a Plegian outfit, and fits her class type.

Just wish that Tharja looked like Tharja. Feels like Astrid becoming a Dark Mage.

But I do agree that Tharja would look great in that outfit. 

[Book Bro]

11 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Just wish that Tharja looked like Tharja. Feels like Astrid becoming a Dark Mage.

But I do agree that Tharja would look great in that outfit. 

Yeah the face could use a different expression (reminds me of Ilyana) but the outfit design is amazing imo.

[NekoKnight]

On 2/1/2019 at 2:15 PM, Spatha said:

Then again, I'm comparing a redesign from amateur vs an artist with years of experience.

This is what you should keep in mind. I agree the official art edits in this thread have been awkward, but it's certainly easier than redrawing/designing the character from the ground up. I'm sure a talented artist hired to make a Fire Emblem game could draw an original Tharja or Camilla to be less fanservicey and still true (or arguably truer) to their character.

Edited February 2, 2019 by NekoKnight

[Spatha]

2 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

This is what you should keep in mind. I agree the official art edits in this thread have been awkward, but it's certainly easier than redrawing/designing the character from the ground up. I'm sure a talented artist hired to make a Fire Emblem game could draw an original Tharja or Camilla to be less fanservicey and still true (or arguably truer) to their character.

Sorry about my outburst but I've seen people bitching and moaning about how these original designs are bad but present these redesigns as being a sign they are better than the actual artist.

Not to mention the fact they and those who loves these redesigns care far more about how the character is "covered" and not whether their or not or not fits their character, whether it actually constitutes practical arms and armament, stylization, and appropriate context.

And to go on-topic. I've seen how very zealous certain fans are regarding their stance on being anti-fanservice.

Instead of just seeing it as apples and oranges, they see it as plague that must be eliminated as it "devalues" and "offends" women in real life.

[Ottservia]

1 minute ago, Spatha said:

And to go on-topic. I've seen how very zealous certain fans are regarding their stance on being anti-fanservice.

Instead of just seeing it as apples and oranges, they see it as plague that must be eliminated as it "devalues" and "offends" women in real life.

yeah I've seen this as well and I absolutely despise it. I mean I kind of get the sentiment seeing as how I used to be like that in my middle school days(when I was just starting to really get into anime) though not nearly to that extreme.

[vanguard333]

On ‎2019‎-‎01‎-‎31 at 8:38 PM, Ottservia said:

in the words of her own daughter:

"...She's as flat as an undented kite shield...."

but flat is justice so

Kite shields; well made ones anyway, usually aren't flat though. They often have a small inward curve that helps with deflecting strikes. 

[NekoKnight]

9 hours ago, Spatha said:

Sorry about my outburst but I've seen people bitching and moaning about how these original designs are bad but present these redesigns as being a sign they are better than the actual artist.

Not to mention the fact they and those who loves these redesigns care far more about how the character is "covered" and not whether their or not or not fits their character, whether it actually constitutes practical arms and armament, stylization, and appropriate context.

And to go on-topic. I've seen how very zealous certain fans are regarding their stance on being anti-fanservice.

Instead of just seeing it as apples and oranges, they see it as plague that must be eliminated as it "devalues" and "offends" women in real life.

It's probably just a matter of quick fixes. It's easy to point at gratuitous and inappropriate fanservice and cover up the most ridiculous bits. Most of us aren't talented artists or character designers so we don't have the tools necessary to really give a comprehensive overhaul that makes the characters nicer than even the official artists did.

I'm sure some people in the community are overly prudish or virtue signaling but at least for my part, I like it when characters feel a part of their world and don't immediately stand out as THE FANSERVICE CHARACTER. It's when a character seems to dress less for themselves and more to be eye candy for the viewer that I scorn the character designers. Being immersed in the world is a better experience for me than an out-of-character T&A show. 

[GrandeRampel]

On 26/1/2019 at 3:53 AM, NekoKnight said:

Arguably, Berserkers are more a showcase of strength and masculinity than male fanservice, so a girly girl in her underwear would be missing the point. Rinka makes a better female version of a Berserker than Charlotte does because she's showing off her muscles.

But it's difficult to not show sexual famservice when you show muscle fanswrvice. Women with big muscle often have big breasts. Just look at Vaida. And I'm sure even Minerva has a big rack under her armor.

Also, thanks for bringing up the Berserker argument. In my opinion Largo, Hawkeye, Vaike, Basilio and even Rinkah and Charlotte's designs scream "I want to fight naked dammit! Screw common decency, my body is a perfect machine of destruction and I will axe you all in two!" 

If things were up to me I would let all of them fight with their dongs and vaginas out, but unfortunately these games still need to be sold to kids.

But let's talk about another type of fanservice. I looove the wholesome kind of fanservice in Fates. I really want them to expand on it. Being able to invite people in your treehouse was good, but I also want to be able to take them on nice dates and cook for them and hear their reaction. Also, after we make kids I want to be able to give them headpats, give them gifts for their birthday and do things together as a family.

I would trade all the ass and cleavage of the world for THIS kind of fanservice.

Come on IS, Persona 5 managed to give you a lot of options for dates and have a good story at the sane time.

GET YOUR SHIT TOGETHER AND START DOING HIGH QUALITY FANSERVICE!

Edited February 3, 2019 by GrandeRampel

[Yexin]

lmao this is so crazy i can see IntSys actually doing it

[bethany81707]

10 hours ago, GrandeRampel said:

But let's talk about another type of fanservice. I looove the wholesome kind of fanservice in Fates. I really want them to expand on it. Being able to invite people in your treehouse was good, but I also want to be able to take them on nice dates and cook for them and hear their reaction. Also, after we make kids I want to be able to give them headpats, give them gifts for their birthday and do things together as a family.

I would trade all the ass and cleavage of the world for THIS kind of fanservice.

Come on IS, Persona 5 managed to give you a lot of options for dates and have a good story at the sane time.

GET YOUR SHIT TOGETHER AND START DOING HIGH QUALITY FANSERVICE!

Between this kind and the original meaning of the word (continuity-based), it's why I've started doing my best to refer to Camilla's brand of fanservice as 'sexservice'.

But yes, this wouldn't be half bad. It depends on what they have to do to squeeze it in, but if it works, I'd love it.