Find and Vote Heroes - A Brand New Minigame and ANOTHER Guarenteed 5* : RESULTS ARE IN!

[Ice Dragon]

41 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Yes, probably why she is on every Aether defense team and a ton of arena defense teams.  If everyone has her though at least everyone will have that big advantage when they build their defense squads.  

No, there is no "big advantage" to anyone for having a strong defense team because only one defense result counts per day.

Everyone having a strong defense team with Azura in it is a huge disadvantage to most players because the gains they get from having Azura in their offense and defense team are much smaller than the losses they get from all of their opponents having Azura in their defense teams.

All players having access to Azura is a net loss to all players, with the players that are less prepared seeing a greater loss.

[Troykv]

6 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

No, there is no "big advantage" to anyone for having a strong defense team because only one defense result counts per day.

Everyone having a strong defense team with Azura in it is a huge disadvantage to most players because the gains they get from having Azura in their offense and defense team are much smaller than the losses they get from all of their opponents having Azura in their defense teams.

All players having access to Azura is a net loss to all players, with the players that are less prepared seeing a greater loss.

So... In the end everyone is losing because of greed?

[Othin]

Maybe sometime we can get an Anti-Dancer Ploy effect.

[Ice Dragon]

3 minutes ago, Troykv said:

So... In the end everyone is losing because of greed?

Nerfs happen. This time, it's just players that got nerfed instead of characters.

EDIT: Also, players that get an Azura lose less than players that don't get an Azura (on average), so it's still in your interest to get an Azura.

Edited February 15, 2019 by Ice Dragon

[Troykv]

1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said:

Nerfs happen. This time, it's just players that got nerfed instead of characters.

I wonder if a character will be actually nerfed and not just powercreeped to hell like what happened with Takumi.

[Lewyn]

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

No, there is no "big advantage" to anyone for having a strong defense team because only one defense result counts per day.

Everyone having a strong defense team with Azura in it is a huge disadvantage to most players because the gains they get from having Azura in their offense and defense team are much smaller than the losses they get from all of their opponents having Azura in their defense teams.

All players having access to Azura is a net loss to all players, with the players that are less prepared seeing a greater loss.

No one defense result doesn't count per day, one defense loss result counts per day.  You can get a victory and then loss and the loss will count.  What having Legendary Azura means is more likely to get partial losses so -20 or -40 rather than -80.  

It is a HUGE disadvantage to have to build a defense team without her, cause it greatly reduces your chances to not take -80 everyday.  Also I'm only in tier 20, and EVERY defense team has one or two legendary Azura.  So the people that don't are flat out handicapped.  Yeah sure the few people without Legendary Azura in the higher tiers can be much easier offense wins for others but that is hardly fair rather just a minority of people are getting screwed hard.  Maybe in lower tiers (surely not higher which I'm sure is even more whale heavy) more Azuras would appear.  

One of the big things about gacha games is pay for advantage, that is the nature of it.  Everyone having L! Azura would reduce the effect of that slightly (substantially in raids).  

Anyways this is what happens when you release flat out broken crap design characters like L! Azura and Surtr.  There are no nerfs in this game, so it becomes do you have him/her?  No, well good luck you'll need it. 

Edited February 15, 2019 by Lewyn

[XRay]

27 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Anyways this is what happens when you release flat out broken crap design characters like L! Azura and Surtr.  There are no nerfs in this game, so it becomes do you have him/her?  No, well good luck you'll need it. 

I actually do not have a problem with VS!Azura when I am running Distant Counter Sharena during her bonus season. The buffs simply do not matter due to Fensalir ignoring it.

As for Surtr, he is a problem when I am running Distant Counter Sharena to try to climb to a higher tier, but when I am running my regular Player Phase team, Surtr is pretty pathetic since he is so slow movement wise so he cannot threaten me.

[Ice Dragon]

18 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

You can get a victory and then loss and the loss will count.

No, that just means that too much time passed between the loss that counted and the previous match that counted.

If you get a victory that counts, then any losses you incur for the next 20 hours aren't counted, just like if you get a loss that counts.

(I don't actually have a source for the 20 hours number, but that's what I've seen floating around.)

 

23 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

It is a HUGE disadvantage to have to build a defense team without her, cause it greatly reduces your chances to not take -80 everyday.

The 7-8 possible defense results are much less important than the 13-16 (plus a max of 3 more with ladder) offense results you get per week.

Additionally, while Azura is very good in the AI's hands, so is every other dancer in the game. Switching out an existing dancer with Azura won't make that big of a difference to the performance of your team compared to adding a dancer to a team without one.

 

36 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Anyways this is what happens when you release flat out broken crap design characters like L! Azura and Surtr.  There are no nerfs in this game, so it becomes do you have him/her?  No, well good luck you'll need it. 

I notice that you really like to exaggerate how big of a difference Azura and Surtr made to the game's meta. They're not game-breaking. Actually, the only thing that makes Surtr stand out at all is the fact that he's the game's best babysitter and the fact that he comes with a fully-built kit (half of the game's other green armors can run the exact same kit just as well as he can, if not better).

And I've been getting along fine while barely using Azura or Surtr.

[NekoKnight]

3 hours ago, Lewyn said:

Ah I forgot that Legendary Azura will appear on March banner along with Legendary Lucina, both units I want and don't have.  I guess I won't pull for Azura here if she isn't my freebie.  Hope for H! Myrrh or Duma then....even though they need Distant counter so it will be quite a long time likely before they can reach their potential. 

I wanted to roll on the March banner for Lucina/Azura too so I was a little concerned about 'wasting' orbs on Azura now, but considering how low the rates are for individual units in Legendary banners, if you really want her, you'll have a better chance now than later.

I'm glad they did a Hector banner not long ago as I knew the Voting Banner units would want DC. I still need more fodder than I have though. Ares, Ayra, H!Myrrh... I should stop showing favoritism to red units.

[Lewyn]

50 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

No, that just means that too much time passed between the loss that counted and the previous match that counted.

If you get a victory that counts, then any losses you incur for the next 20 hours aren't counted, just like if you get a loss that counts.

(I don't actually have a source for the 20 hours number, but that's what I've seen floating around.)

 

The 7-8 possible defense results are much less important than the 13-16 (plus a max of 3 more with ladder) offense results you get per week.

Additionally, while Azura is very good in the AI's hands, so is every other dancer in the game. Switching out an existing dancer with Azura won't make that big of a difference to the performance of your team compared to adding a dancer to a team without one.

 

I notice that you really like to exaggerate how big of a difference Azura and Surtr made to the game's meta. They're not game-breaking. Actually, the only thing that makes Surtr stand out at all is the fact that he's the game's best babysitter and the fact that he comes with a fully-built kit (half of the game's other green armors can run the exact same kit just as well as he can, if not better).

And I've been getting along fine while barely using Azura or Surtr.

Are you sure about that and is there a source?  In terms of what defense victory gets you?  Cause after getting a loss, I am immune for several attempts usually.  However after getting a victory the next loss loses me lift.

Well Legendary Azura is great on offense too.  So why not have everyone have her?  Also every dancer is good in AI's hand, but only Azura buffs all 4 stats and allows flyer and infantry nukes to move 3 spaces which is a massive advantage over all the others.  

Sure...Azura isn't game breaking she just happens to be on every defense team and most offense teams (any nuke dancer one certainly).  She was an awful mistake.  Surtr's weapon is something that can't be inherited, nor his C skill.  They are both really garbage design and the most problematic units released in the game's history.  Also if they are so ho hum forgettable, then NP if everyone has them right?  I also recall you used Surtr and H! Myrrh a lot initially in Aether raids with their bonus weeks.  Do you also not have Azura on your defense team and why?  Or do you just not use dancers?  If I exaggerate you greatly understate.  

@XRay Wow you went all out for her.  Yeah but nulling buffs can help a lot, but is Sharena's res enough?

@NekoKnight I really want Azura but I also want Lucina.  Thing with this vote banner is it likely will have regular rates, and off focus pity breakers are pretty bad and the average orb count to get her is very high.  If March had no other blues I wanted, then I would go all out on this banner, but I could wait a month and hope.  

Edited February 16, 2019 by Lewyn

[Usana]

@Ice Dragon@Lewyn The source is the help. Go to your defense wins and open up the help. It is the forth section and it reads:

Quote

Lift Decrease Limit:
If you're attacked once, for the next 20 hours your Lift will not decrease even if your defense fails.

It would be really nice if they would timestamp our wins/losses.

 

[XRay]

23 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

 Wow you went all out for her.  Yeah but nulling buffs can help a lot, but is Sharena's res enough?

Outside of Distant Counter and 200 Dew for Refinement, I actually did not give her that much. I gave her Guard from a pity breaker 5* Titania and she runs Quick Riposte or Distant Def as a Sacred Seal depending on my mood. She normally runs Renewal for Arena, but since Eir is on the team, I decided to switch it out.

I gave Sharena a Light Blessing, so Sharena's Res gets buffed during Light Season, and since I run 2 Eirs, it gets her Res to 36 (22 + 5Eir + 5Eir + 4bonus) before buffs from M!Corrins, which pushes it to 48 (4M!Corrin + 4M!Corrin + 3Drive Res + 1Ally Support).

The team set up is not perfect though. It worked against most defense teams, but Surtr and Ophelia often times toss my team out the window.

[Ice Dragon]

21 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Are you sure about that and is there a source?

My own experience. It was really easy to tell back before the most recent update when the broken maps were still broken and pretty much all of your challenges occurred within the first few hours after the reset.

There's also the Aether Raids thread where you can very easily get answers to your questions about mechanics by simply listening to people complain about the mechanics or celebrate their victories.

 

24 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Well Legendary Azura is great on offense too.  So why not have everyone have her?  Also every dancer is good in AI's hand, but only Azura buffs all 4 stats and allows flyer and infantry nukes to move 3 spaces which is a massive advantage over all the others.  

I have nothing against letting everyone have Azura. I'm just here to argue that letting everyone have Azura means having to deal with AI-controlled Azuras more often and that AI-controlled Azura is stronger than player-controlled Azura due to the two teams' different objectives.

This means that due to the power difference between AI-controlled Azura and player-controlled Azura, the number of opponents with Azura affects game difficulty more than whether or not you have Azura.

 

34 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Surtr's weapon is something that can't be inherited, nor his C skill.

If Surtr doesn't have March or Boots, he's a sitting duck for ranged attacks because both skills do absolutely nothing. If Surtr does have March or Boots, he's a sitting duck for baiting because both skills do absolutely nothing. If Surtr is running Distant Counter instead of Steady Stance 4, he becomes vulnerable to being nuked by Special skills.

Oh, and Axebreaker laughs at him.

 

1 minute ago, Usana said:

The source is the help. Go to your defense wins and open up the help. It is the forth section and it reads:

Oh my god, that screen has a separate set of Help text?

... Oh my god. Why the fuck is the help text on every single screen different (I just went to other screens to check)? Why the fuck is it not just all in one place? Who the fuck designed this game's UI?

 

The "intuitive UI design" part of my job description seems to have been triggered.

 

3 minutes ago, Usana said:

It would be really nice if they would timestamp our wins/losses.

Yes. Yes it would.

[Lewyn]

1 hour ago, Usana said:

@Ice Dragon@Lewyn The source is the help. Go to your defense wins and open up the help. It is the forth section and it reads:

It would be really nice if they would timestamp our wins/losses.

 

Oh thanks for clearing that up!  I had no idea the info was right there.  I agree it timestamp would be great to know.  Okay I see I was attacked.....got a loss, then got a victory, however the loss cost me 80 but I don't know if the 20 hours passed before the victory.  If it hasn't the victory doesn't mean anything, however since the lift just says -0 regardless one can't tell.

 

[Othin]

1 minute ago, Lewyn said:

Oh thanks for clearing that up!  I had no idea the info was right there.  I agree it timestamp would be great to know.  Okay I see I was attacked.....got a loss, then got a victory, however the loss cost me 80 but I don't know if the 20 hours passed before the victory.  If it hasn't the victory doesn't mean anything, however since the lift just says -0 regardless one can't tell.

 

Yeah, that's part of the issue with the current implementation.

[Baldrick]

1 hour ago, Lewyn said:

Well Legendary Azura is great on offense too.  So why not have everyone have her?  Also every dancer is good in AI's hand, but only Azura buffs all 4 stats and allows flyer and infantry nukes to move 3 spaces which is a massive advantage over all the others.  

It honestly doesn't make much difference. In Aether Raids, you can control how you can engage the enemy because they won't move until you provoke them. Player phase teams won't be affected, and enemy phase teams will be able to anticipate and prepare for the extra boost. Any nuke more dangerous than Lyn/Reinhardt/Veronica is a threat regardless of how much move they have.

The real problem with free L!Azura is her reputation/prestige. Olivia automatically makes any defence team that much harder to deal with, but I see a lot more teams without any dancers at all than teams with her, presumably because she isn't fancy enough.

[mewyeon]

I'm surprised Myrrh won for the red units...didn't realize she was popular.

At any rate, I'm not exactly mad about this: the winners are all units I don't have.  I'll be hoping for Duma, but I won't be upset if I get any of the others.

[Diovani Bressan]

1 hour ago, mewyeon said:

At any rate, I'm not exactly mad about this: the winners are all units I don't have.  I'll be hoping for Duma, but I won't be upset if I get any of the others.

That's great! Any of the four heroes will be a great free unit.

I don't have Myrrh and Azura, so I hope to get one of them. 

[Lewyn]

Uh...I want Halloween Myrrh.  She is the unit I'm likely to never get, she might be red next month however probably won't be other reds I want.  Then the repeat halloween banner, and I rarely pull on repeats don't have the orbs to do so...and especially how terrible the first run was not going through it again.  

Azura is the must own unit, but I hate her design, I just feel forced to have and use her.  She will be on next month though with Lucina and maybe even another blue hero as well as future legend/mythic banners.  Same thing with Duma.  

 

[Flying Shogi]

Don't have anyone on banner so in terms of the Hero Catalog, it's the same to me. I'm gonna be pulling on the March legendary banner so I won't be too disheartened if I don't get LH!Azura as the free summon here. 

If I had the choice though, I rather not get Duma since he isn't interesting to me.  

[Rezzy]

So, I suppose I'd prefer to get either LAzuras or Duma, if I had a choice.  Duma will be good for Aether Raids once the Astra Mythic Hero gets added.  LAzuras is just OP in General.  Lyn and Myrrh aren't bad, but wouldn't even crack my top 10 for Red or Green units to pick for a freebie.

I wonder if this is going to be an 8% banner or just a regular 3% one.

[Roflolxp54]

This could be huge:

Essentially, no new orb select sound effect was found from the most recent datamine so it may be possible to get around not being able to see the color by being able to differentiate the orbs via the orbs' sound effects as each color orb (red, blue, green, colorless) has a different sound effect. The Reddit post includes a link to a YouTube video that has the sounds effects for all 4 color orbs.

[Etrurian emperor]

17 minutes ago, Roflolxp54 said:

This could be huge:

Essentially, no new orb select sound effect was found from the most recent datamine so it may be possible to get around not being able to see the color by being able to differentiate the orbs via the orbs' sound effects as each color orb (red, blue, green, colorless) has a different sound effect. The Reddit post includes a link to a YouTube video that has the sounds effects for all 4 color orbs.

That could be useful. I checked and red and colorless sound pretty similar. That could be problematic since I want Duma but really don't want Myr. 

[Usana]

@Roflolxp54 Here's hoping. Though even then I would have to make up my mind on Myrrh or Azura. That and I am terrible at distinguishing sounds, but still better than nothing.

 

[Othin]

Hmm. I can think of one workaround they might use: have the unit you'll get randomly determined before you enter the session, then have all four orbs play the sound for that color. That'd suck.

For anyone worried about difficulty distinguishing sounds, try turning off the background music if you haven't already. If it works, it may be necessary to do that before entering the session, if it doesn't let you back out.