Heroic Ordeals: A Speculation on a Missed Opportunity

[Kurrin]

Now obviously the Heroic Ordeals haven't been added yet, so any guesses about its features would be pure speculation at this point, but a couple of its features open an opportunity for something Heroes can do, but I'm not convinced it will:

One thing Heroes has missed is the chance to do is what I'm sure many people have wanted to get out of the game: getting to experience characters, both new and old, for vets and newbies alike. Unfortunately, it hasn't provided as much character building as (presumably) most people were hoping. All we have is a short blurb under their name and a small handful of voiced clips. That's it. Perhaps my problem is that I frequently find myself comparing Heroes to other games with a similar format (i.e. gacha), not too find superiority of any game over another, but as a point of reference for comments and criticisms. One feature that's often seen is a character story, unlocked when you own the character's unit, and typically requiring some kind of support bond or unit level to unlock. It doesn't always have to be a doorstopper; some nice little exposition on a character's backstory would suffice. Sadly, this is something Heroes is missing and it's something it could really benefit from.

Which is where Heroic Ordeals come in.

What we know so far:
1) Unlocking an Ordeal requires owning the related Hero
2) The battles in each Ordeal are specifically tailored toward the related Hero
3) They give out Dragon Flowers as rewards

Going by the previous statements, its features follow the pattern of typical character stories and would open up the opportunity to provide the character building the game has been lacking in.

The question is if we're going to be getting anything like that out of this new mode. The short explanation of it in the latest FEH Channel, along with the corresponding notification, doesn't seem to imply that there will be anything other than battle(s) involved, which seems like, well, a missed opportunity.

Thoughts?

[Othin]

Adding exposition for every character would be a big ask, and Heroes' writing isn't at a quality where I'm inclined to complain about not getting it.

Heroic Ordeals looks like a fun little bonus, and I'd rather appreciate it as it is rather than worrying about what else they could have done.

[Zeo]

The biggest missed opportunity of Heroic Ordeals is the lack of prf A-C skills for weaker characters given as special rewards. Kind of akin to the special ascensions given to certain units in F/GO. A simple +1 or +2 to all stats for a launch hero is great but it's not enough when you could give those +2 stats to a unit like Ayra or Karla. Special skills unlocking for certain units when you've maxed them would be much more rewarding and an incentive to beef up some of those older units who may or may not still be lacking even after their weapon refines came out.

Bias aside, you could max out Dragonstones on Raigh, but why do that when Celica has access to that same bonus? Or even Tharja. 

[Mackc2]

The real shame is the dragonflower reward split being 2/8/40 for year 1/2/3 units making this just another obvious money grab 

Edited February 3, 2019 by Mackc2

[indigoasis]

I'm still waiting for a mode that allows us to reliably, but very tediously, grind orbs.

On paper, it sounds cool. In practice, it's gonna be kinda lame, not to mention that we probably won't even get that many dragonflowers from it anyway. In the patchnotes, it says that we can get more dragonflowers the closer we are to a hero's release date when we clear their ordeal, which doesn't sound like a fun gimmick.

I can appreciate the efforts that IS is making to try and cater to the fans (sometimes), but it seems like they're trying to "solve" the issues in gimmicky ways. A free BST boost for older units who ended up becoming outclassed by other ones would've been nice, but this dragonflower thing that every unit can utilize just ain't it, chief. It's a fair system in concept, but when you take the powercreep this game has gotten into consideration, it clearly favors some units over others.

In short, I like it, but I don't.

I can't wait to see teams of +10 Surtrs with full dragonflower boosts.

[Rezzy]

I'm not sure why they include Gen 2 infantry units in the "gets +10 to all stats" and not just the Gen 1 ones, unless they're planning on another level of powercreep, which isn't something I'd like.

[Othin]

11 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

I'm not sure why they include Gen 2 infantry units in the "gets +10 to all stats" and not just the Gen 1 ones, unless they're planning on another level of powercreep, which isn't something I'd like.

My impression is that they're planning on increasing the BST of future infantry, but not other types of units. Which seems reasonable to me.

[SuperNova125]

6 hours ago, Othin said:

My impression is that they're planning on increasing the BST of future infantry, but not other types of units. Which seems reasonable to me.

Well they better do, infantry unlike many other movement types don't have specific buffs/skills, mobility (fliers and cavalries) or crazy stats (armors). The skills they can get can be used by other movement types much better and their exclusive skills (infantry pulse, flash, rush) are easily replaceable and quite rare. So they at least need better BST to have something unique. And those that came before will fall back if they don't get more stats out of dragon flowers. Now I could go into more depth on the matter but I will get out of topic.

As far as heroic ordeals go, I think they are fine. It would be very hard putting unique dialogues and expressions to every hero. What I am wondering is if at some point the number of flowers needed to use on infantries caps.

[Diovani Bressan]

11 hours ago, Mackc2 said:

The real shame is the dragonflower reward split being 2/8/40 for year 1/2/3 units making this just another obvious money grab 

The amount of dragonflowers earn screams money grab.

The difference between 2 and 8 isn't that bad, but 8 and 40 is ridiculous!

IntSys: Hey summoners, do you want to have a lot of Dragonflowers? Well, I have two options for you: Or you start to spend your orbs and money on new heroes that will be release this year, or you spend your orbs and money on the Legendary/Mythic Banner, because you will need to get a high score on Aether Raids for a higher amount of flowers.  But don't worry, I will give you 3 random free heroes this month, so this will make you happy and it will make you not complain about it, right? Also, here's Bride Camilla, and get ready for Brave Camilla and Winter Camilla in the future.

[Garlyle]

I like the chance to get easy dragonflowers with this mode, looks like a mode we can have a lot of plays in - maybe even cost stamina.

However I don't like the fact that you get less dragonflowers once the units are older. This is such an obvious strategy to push players to get more newer units if they want dragonflowers. This is too much of a whale food, and making the game less F2P. I don't say that the bonus stats will make that much of a difference, but this is just one in the many attempts from IS lately to get us invested in orb purchases.

[Fabulously Olivier]

All heroes should give the same amount of dragonflowers. Anything less is a greedy cash grab that should be met with backlash.

[Xenovia]

5 hours ago, Diovani Bressan said:

The amount of dragonflowers earn screams money grab.

The difference between 2 and 8 isn't that bad, but 8 and 40 is ridiculous!

IntSys: Hey summoners, do you want to have a lot of Dragonflowers? Well, I have two options for you: Or you start to spend your orbs and money on new heroes that will be release this year, or you spend your orbs and money on the Legendary/Mythic Banner, because you will need to get a high score on Aether Raids for a higher amount of flowers.  But don't worry, I will give you 3 random free heroes this month, so this will make you happy and it will make you not complain about it, right? Also, here's Bride Camilla, and get ready for Brave Camilla and Winter Camilla in the future.

Why am I still playing this game?  Aether Raids is playable only twice a day, roughly, right now, and every other mode is just a grindfest.  Yes, save all your feathers to boost the stats of some common character so you can have higher stats to score higher in Arena/AA to get MORE feathers to +10 your other units.  This is what the game has become to me.  Heroic Ordeals will be nice to boost my +10 Kagero and Camilla's stats, but it screams grindfest and whalebait.  Just like every other mode. AAAAAAAAA

[Tenzen12]

I don't have problem with older units giving less flowers (though 2 per battle is straight down pathetic, IS should give 5 at very least), but I am very bothered it's not repeatable. Do we know whether there will be any reset?

[Othin]

9 minutes ago, Tenzen12 said:

I don't have problem with older units giving less flowers (though 2 per battle is straight down pathetic, IS should give 5 at very least), but I am very bothered it's not repeatable. Do we know whether there will be any reset?

All maps that give rewards on completion only do it once and don't ask you to do them over to get more, like the orbs from story maps. I don't see a reason for this to be different.

[Garlyle]

I also feel like complaining about it. Doing a map for only 2 flowers is hardly worth it. I'm ok with 8, and 40 is very nice. - but when you need 600 for one unit, that'd mean 300 unit worth of grind, when we don't even have only 343 units in the game.

Book 2 units worth 4 times, new units worth 20 times - obvious moneygrab, asking us to spend for orbs to get more units starting now.

Sure Aether Raid offers 32 per week for you most likely, but does it come in the color you want?

Oh, did you guys said it's not repeatable? Does this mean I am a beggar collecting 2 flowers for 1 challenge map unless I offer spending for new units?

The more I think about it, the more disgusting this concept is. 

[Tenzen12]

Reason would be this mod simple doesn't give enough flowers to do anything with it. Not even upgrading fully single unit. Well maybe full blown whale who has all units in game could get fully upgraded mixed team, but I very doubt so.

Orbs and feathers in other hand can be earned infinitely.

[Usana]

Yeah this not being Grindable sounds like a royal cash grab. Particularly with how large the difference is.  And it is rather bland over all yet to boot. Though I suppose to be fair I never expected the 'full value' to be grindable. I just figured it would decrease each time you did it until it hit the min and then you would have to grind from the lowest value from then on out. But this 'hard' cap is rather distressing, particularly when you see how much it costs.

[Vince777]

Completed Heroic Ordeals with 236 units! Took a while.

I now have exactly enough flowers to fully upgrade.. 0 unit. Not even enough for one.

I think this was poorly planned on their part.

 

Edited February 7, 2019 by Vince777

[Garlyle]

I just sent a feedback complaining about the Heroic Grails and Dragonflower distribution and how the incremental cost is hurting these resources.It takes 6 months of hoarding Heroic Grails to +10 a single GHB unit, come on! Also the dragonflowers incremental cost doesn't make up in value that it gives to you - they need to realize that the system is not going to work this way.

Spoiler

88 grails per week, 4 weeks a month, potential 40 from random Forging Bond lead to 392 per month, while it takes 2200 grails to +10 a GHB unit. Not everyone can make this many grails though.

 

Edited February 7, 2019 by Garlyle

[Othin]

Wait, what's with all the complaining about them not being grindable? Non-random maps are never grindable, at least not for actual items. (Hero Merit is the closest thing, but there's still a cap on how many feathers you can get out of that. Incidentally, it already established the whole "get resources for each unique unit you have" thing.)

The rewards are a bit low, but they're fun, regardless.

As for Aether Raids, 32 seems to be the most common tier reward (tiers 16-20) but you can also get a bunch as rank rewards. Making top 10k gives another 38, which is manageable from tier 20.

I also think people are overestimating the value of maxing out a unit. For a non-infantry unit, going from +4 to +5 costs 200 flowers, for a single point in the unit's worst stat. In contrast, you can spend 240 flowers on a fresh unit for +1 to three stats: HP and the unit's two best stats. +2 or +3 seems like the sweet spot for non-infantry until you run out of units you care about buffing. (Either way, it's 120 flowers per point of non-HP stat.)

For infantry, it's even more extreme. Going from +9 to +10 is still 200 flowers for a point in their worst stat, but it only takes 160 to get all the way to +5 and even less for lower stats. +2 or +3 is still the sweet spot, at 30 flowers per non-HP stat point.

Edited February 7, 2019 by Othin

[Tree]

I think they will add grails and flowers to other modes eventually, just in smaller quantities. This will help people that don't like Aether Raids, and also give a few extra to those who do play the mode. Regular arena could replace the 100 arena medals with 10 grails. Flowers (20 or so of each color) would fit nicely into the four colors of Forging Bonds.

I think my disappointment was that I thought the Heroic Ordeals would actually be a significant source of flowers. (The map variety was underwhelming too.) But, when I think of those flowers as just a small starting amount (like the initial 200 grails), then it isn't so bad. I think flowers are supposed to only be applied to the most favorite units, rather than be an upgrade across the board. I certainly wouldn't mind getting more resources though.

[Othin]

I've been playing Heroic Ordeals with animations and special battle music on, and I recommend others try it too. You get battle music from the character's original game, and I think it's a situation where animations are at their best. (Because the maps are pretty fast and easy and then you switch characters, it avoids getting repetitive.)

[Ice Dragon]

2 hours ago, Othin said:

Wait, what's with all the complaining about them not being grindable?

On my end, my complaint is that almost nothing of real worth is grindable in this game except feathers (and there's still a limit on those). The only other resources you can grind for are badges and Arena medallions, both of which end up getting stockpiled to hell and back because there's nothing to spend them on without other more limited resources.

Meanwhile, we keep getting more and more new resources, and none of them can be farmed for by any method.

[Othin]

4 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

On my end, my complaint is that almost nothing of real worth is grindable in this game except feathers (and there's still a limit on those). The only other resources you can grind for are badges and Arena medallions, both of which end up getting stockpiled to hell and back because there's nothing to spend them on without other more limited resources.

Meanwhile, we keep getting more and more new resources, and none of them can be farmed for by any method.

True. It's an issue, and I hope they do something about it at some point. I just don't think grindable modes would look anything like this.

[Lewyn]

I just wish we got more flowers, I am fine with it being a one time thing.  In fact I prefer it, though I generally hate farming/grinding in any type of game and Heroes is great cause it has much less of that as opposed to many of these types of games.  

Like 2 flowers, seriously?  It would be nice if it was 40, 20, 10.  Anyways I think best characters to max are ones that player favors has merged uses a lot, and has a balanced stat spread.  A unit that can use all of the stats.  I already have settled on Legendary Tiki as the first one to get maxed for armors she has good stats all over and could use all of them.  Actually Young tiki (infantry) and Summer Young Tiki (flying) both are like that too.