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Heroic Ordeals: A Speculation on a Missed Opportunity


Kurrin
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Is it just me or does IS's approach to player complaints anymore to add something new and hope it distracts?

Bitch about the 5* pool; here's a bunch of refinements to justify them being there.

Bitch about arena; here's Aether Raids.

Bitch about lack of dew; here's grails.

Bitch about lack of grails; here's flowers.

Bitch about alts on NHBs; here's more seasonals.

Some of these I can understand, but it really feels like it'd benefit them to prioritize cleaning up some existing gripes a bit more.

But yeah, going to echo sentiments on this. The maps are tedious, and the rewards are just awful. At least I can rest easy knowing we'll continue to get a unit or two a month to actually have some viable income. Thank God for GHBs and TTs.

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One thing I noticed is that the difficulty varies by book. Book 3 enemies are level 40, Book 2 enemies are level 35, and Book 1 enemies are level 30. This means that collecting the two flowers from the old heroes is fairly easy, just takes time.

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2 minutes ago, Tree said:

One thing I noticed is that the difficulty varies by book. Book 3 enemies are level 40, Book 2 enemies are level 35, and Book 1 enemies are level 30. This means that collecting the two flowers from the old heroes is fairly easy, just takes time.

Yeah, with some of my older heroes having been level 1, I used some exp shards to get them to level 20, and with the help of another unit (usually a dancer, healer, or all-purpose tank) I was able to beat them. It sometimes takes a few tries, but you end up with something like a middling challenge Tactics Drill. I only wish they put Retry in there. For the ones that are leveled though, even at 4* with their default skills it's pretty quick to get through most.

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6 minutes ago, Johann said:

Yeah, with some of my older heroes having been level 1, I used some exp shards to get them to level 20, and with the help of another unit (usually a dancer, healer, or all-purpose tank) I was able to beat them. It sometimes takes a few tries, but you end up with something like a middling challenge Tactics Drill. I only wish they put Retry in there. For the ones that are leveled though, even at 4* with their default skills it's pretty quick to get through most.

The lack of Retry is really odd. Hopefully they fix that in March.

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32 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

Is it just me or does IS's approach to player complaints anymore to add something new and hope it distracts?

Bitch about the 5* pool; here's a bunch of refinements to justify them being there.

Bitch about arena; here's Aether Raids.

Bitch about lack of dew; here's grails.

Bitch about lack of grails; here's flowers.

Bitch about alts on NHBs; here's more seasonals.

Some of these I can understand, but it really feels like it'd benefit them to prioritize cleaning up some existing gripes a bit more.

But yeah, going to echo sentiments on this. The maps are tedious, and the rewards are just awful. At least I can rest easy knowing we'll continue to get a unit or two a month to actually have some viable income. Thank God for GHBs and TTs.

I wouldn't say so? Refines actually legitimately fix lot of balance issues and we did plenty of demotes. Not being able get merges on free units was "bitched" plenty about and with grails (and it's not like they are that hard to come) so that's solved too. Arena got really nice revamp (3k feather just for winning once is more then generous)

Dew need some more gimping as generic weapons getting outnumbered by prf recently and Ordeals are just terrible, but I certainly could see some effort across the board address issues game has.

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@Tenzen12 Probably should've specified by anymore I meant within the last 6 or so months.

Oh and don't even get me started on the outrageous number of prfs. They've made plenty of interesting inheritable weapons, but they're all either stuck on seasonals or they never followup with them.

INB4 someone says it takes them that long to respond to things.

Edited by bottlegnomes
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Wow this mode needs a lot of improvement:

  • 2 flowers is too little.
  • +1 to most stats doesn't really fix older units.
  • I understand the flowers are a one a month thing, but the current rate to collect is too slow.
  • Maps aren't particularly interesting or well designed.
  • Designed to encourage rolling for new units more often.
  • Punishes me for rolling for older units I like.
  • Anyone can use them regardless of bst 
  • The heroes who need this most contribute the least amount of currency

Eventually I'll get my favs more stat points, but it will take a long while.

Edited by Jingle Jangle
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Tried with animation on as recommended. It truly is a mode which makes more use of it.
Have to fight through with some units who are only lv 1. I wanted to save up my crystals and now this mode is eating them away.

Also do not like how slow they can be gathered, but I am glad that Infantry only needs 160 to +1 each stat.
My first step is +5 to all infantry units I mostly use. Deirdre is at 4 and Athena at 3. I also found it useful to give Aversa just one so her HP increases by 1. She cannot have enough there.

Sadly Camus and Ursula, 2 Cavalries I want them to fix the most will take their time. They are the only Cavalry I consider merge projects in future. Thanks to Tharja's refine I consider Titania as another one for later though, because they have a good sync. 
 

Edited by Stroud
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After doing all ordeals, the total amount of obtained flowers is kinda... pitiful. I also don't like how the system promotes partial buffing due to the increased cost per step. Even if a unit doesn't care for the last two points (let's say Firelance Cordelia, who doesn't care about those Def/Res points) it will lead to me feeling like something is missing, I like to complete things, but the game kinda keeps me from it by punishing wasteful behaviour very harshly. The rate of gaining further flowers is also painful, I can already tell. Yeah, not too big a fan and don't know yet when I'll start using them... and on whom.

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@Tenzen12 I'd pretty strongly disagree about the rate of grail acquisition. Were a player to hypothetically miss a unit and want to merge them to +10, it'd take 37 weeks (9 months) just to do so at the maximum possible rate of acquisition. For comparison, getting the necessary feathers would take 19 weeks at the max possible arena and arena assault rewards (ignoring all other sources). As for merging limited units, they had a ton of ways to go about that and they chose the most restrictive.

For dew, all it does is limit player freedom in a negative way. If they actually wanted to make the decision of personal vs inheritable weapons matter, they should've actually put some effort into releasing desirable and obtainable inheritable weapons. As is, it's really not much different from the restrictiveness of budget- friendly SI, except even whales have it only minimally better. I'll refer to @Ice Dragon for numbers if he's up for it.

As for arena, I was referring to scoring. I didn't think anyone had any issues with the rewards even before the revamp? I mean, I think people like it better now, but I don't recall anyone complaining much before.

Edited by bottlegnomes
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Well, if you miss unit it's sort of your fault, but even if it's the case there are Re-runs. As for grail acquisition It sound pretty bad if you really sum it that way, but it's not like natural merging is  much faster. In those two years I was able make two +10 and two +8 so I think it's adds up more on less.

 

I would obviously take more grails if there were opportunity, though

 

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What a bad mode:

  • Rewards are tiny for old units.  2 is basically IS going: "Oh you like this old unit? here's a penny lol."   The release date based rewards are honestly scum in general.  If anything about this mode should change, it's this.  Because this is dumb.
  • No dialogue or story to help us get to know the characters in more depth.  The only other gachas I play are Magia Record and Fate/Grand Order, but both Puella Magi stories in the former, and Interludes in the latter are unit specific battles with actual plot.  One of Heroes biggest issues is how little characterization everyone gets, and it's a shame they didn't take character specific battles as an opportunity to add more.
  • It's not a fix for BST problems of old units, sigh.  
  • The stat boosts are honestly really small as a whole.  +1 to one stat per upgrade... doesn't do much.
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1 hour ago, Tenzen12 said:

but it's not like natural merging is  much faster. In those two years I was able make two +10 and two +8 so I think it's adds up more on less.

One amendment, I messed up the math, so it'd be ~7 months, not 9. That said, the big thing is that that's an an absolute floor. There's no way to do it faster and very easy to be slower. By comparison, I can do about 2 5*s a month for ~5 months without killing myself (tier 19.5, ~10,000 AA, ~5,000 TT, no HM grinding to speak of). Regarding your barracks, how many units have you 5*ed that weren't merge projects? I have 43 I counted plus whatever fodder is gone. Summoning is another issue, but that can be bypassed as the central point of the game (which can also accelerate feathers). The issue with both grails and dew (coins and rocks to a lesser extent) is that there's literally no way to even approach being able to use them for all the options, especially since they continue to add new options faster than the resources can be obtained. They're basically in the same position feathers were at launch, except even then you could spend to summon and send home all the crud you didn't care about.

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7 hours ago, Glaceon Mage said:

What a bad mode:

  • Rewards are tiny for old units.  2 is basically IS going: "Oh you like this old unit? here's a penny lol."   The release date based rewards are honestly scum in general.  If anything about this mode should change, it's this.  Because this is dumb.
  • No dialogue or story to help us get to know the characters in more depth.  The only other gachas I play are Magia Record and Fate/Grand Order, but both Puella Magi stories in the former, and Interludes in the latter are unit specific battles with actual plot.  One of Heroes biggest issues is how little characterization everyone gets, and it's a shame they didn't take character specific battles as an opportunity to add more.
  • It's not a fix for BST problems of old units, sigh.  
  • The stat boosts are honestly really small as a whole.  +1 to one stat per upgrade... doesn't do much.

Not a bad assessment. As much as I try to stay positive and appreciate what's given to us, the amount of reward per battle compared to how much it actually costs to raise a stat is horribly skewed, and not only makes this tedious, but almost not worth putting the effort in. I planned to fully flower my M!Kana, and had to scrounge to find units I'd built up who could give me the flowers I needed. Used M!Kana, Leavateinn and L!Ike. M!Kana got +1 to his HP for the trouble. I appreciate the thematic "boss music" and it's kind of cool how it feels like you're on the other side of the table (like, controlling enemy units in story mode or something since boss music tuned to the main flower-earning unit plays when your flower-earner is in combat) but script and character-delving would've been sweet add-ons. I understand that it may not be very practical to ask the writers to come up with a plot and script for each character in Heroes, but... Well, it's a great idea as far as consumer enjoyment is concerned. As stated, though, my main complaint is the uneven effort vs reward balance.

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Been powering through a little bit at a time with Brave Veronica as the Ally unit. Most of these characters can solo the fight with a bit of healer support, and if they are hard countered like Jagen vs Hector, she can nuke them. I guess in that regard I am benefiting from having 5 starred nearly every unit in my collection. Had to get a little creative on my few Gen 3 units though. I'm proud of how I handled New Year Laevatein's map since I was too lazy to pick a more sensible ally.

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On 8.2.2019 at 2:31 AM, Jingle Jangle said:

Wow this mode needs a lot of improvement:

  • 2 flowers is too little.
  • +1 to most stats doesn't really fix older units.
  • I understand the flowers are a one a month thing, but the current rate to collect is too slow.
  • Maps aren't particularly interesting or well designed.
  • Designed to encourage rolling for new units more often.
  • Punishes me for rolling for older units I like.
  • Anyone can use them regardless of bst 
  • The heroes who need this most contribute the least amount of currency

Eventually I'll get my favs more stat points, but it will take a long while.

I dont think this was intended to fix or improve the BST of older units. Its more a way for them to add additional grow methods for your units after +10ing them. The only other option would be to introduce 6 Star

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1 hour ago, Hilda said:

I dont think this was intended to fix or improve the BST of older units. Its more a way for them to add additional grow methods for your units after +10ing them. The only other option would be to introduce 6 Star

I can see it that ways if +10 a unit is to reach the max potential. Flowers are a way to give an addition boost to the favorites. Still don't like how it is implemented. 

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22 hours ago, Vaximillian said:

About a week ago. Since three Ishtars on her BHB banner, and now Titania.

How did a seasonal alt of all things convince you to come back to the game? I thought you disliked seasonal alts especially since they are too numerous. 

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