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Who are the canonical explorers of Thabes?


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Obviously Alm and Celica weren't taking their whole army around the world for the post game. They were many different people who had many different goals and reasons for fighting. But taking character endings and character personalities, who among the cast do you think we're most and least likely to be involved in the Thabes event? There's 10 spots open, I think we need to give one to Alm as he had the Falchion needed to defeat the Experiment.

Edited by Jotari
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Well, if Thabes was canonically explored in the first place, I'd have to say the only ones who'd have even a remote reason to go there would be the Archaneans and the royals.  Maybe some of the nobles as well.  The Archaneans because they obviously would need to go back to their homeland at some point, the royals of Valentia (Alm and Celica) because they might want to establish trade with the other continent, and nobles because maybe possibly they want to have a holiday (pretty horrible time for a holiday in Archanea, as it's only barely finished cleaning up the mess from the previous war and about to get engulfed in another war, but it isn't like there's any way the Valentians would know anything about that unless they trade regularly with Archanea).

So that'd be six spots taken up by Alm, Celica, the Whitewings, and Zeke, and I suppose the other ones (the nobles on holiday) would be Clair, Clive, Mathilda, and Conrad.  But that's just assuming based on the notion that they'd even go to Archanea in the first place.  Honestly the only people who have any real reason to go there are the Archaneans.  Everyone else just doesn't have any motivation besides altruism to go with the foreign trader to Archanea, and Alm and Celica in particular are needed in Valentia.  And that's kind of a paradox because the only way to defeat the Experiment is through either Falchion or Nosferatu, and none of the Archaneans in SoV are able to wield either weapon, and that in combination with some other things leads me to believe that it simply wasn't canonically explored.

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2 hours ago, Ertrick36 said:

Well, if Thabes was canonically explored in the first place, I'd have to say the only ones who'd have even a remote reason to go there would be the Archaneans and the royals.  Maybe some of the nobles as well.  The Archaneans because they obviously would need to go back to their homeland at some point, the royals of Valentia (Alm and Celica) because they might want to establish trade with the other continent, and nobles because maybe possibly they want to have a holiday (pretty horrible time for a holiday in Archanea, as it's only barely finished cleaning up the mess from the previous war and about to get engulfed in another war, but it isn't like there's any way the Valentians would know anything about that unless they trade regularly with Archanea).

So that'd be six spots taken up by Alm, Celica, the Whitewings, and Zeke, and I suppose the other ones (the nobles on holiday) would be Clair, Clive, Mathilda, and Conrad.  But that's just assuming based on the notion that they'd even go to Archanea in the first place.  Honestly the only people who have any real reason to go there are the Archaneans.  Everyone else just doesn't have any motivation besides altruism to go with the foreign trader to Archanea, and Alm and Celica in particular are needed in Valentia.  And that's kind of a paradox because the only way to defeat the Experiment is through either Falchion or Nosferatu, and none of the Archaneans in SoV are able to wield either weapon, and that in combination with some other things leads me to believe that it simply wasn't canonically explored.

That relies on the assumption that the Thabes expedition happened immediately after the end of the game (which the months in game do suggest, although you can spend literally years in game finishing the main story and that's obviously not accurate). It's quite possible the adventure happened a number of years later after both continents had stabilized. Additionally, it's not required that both Alm and Celica go. Alm could go with out her to establish a link with Archanea while Celica remains home to rule the kingdom. If it does happen a few years later then that would actually push the Archaneans out of the picture as they wouldn't be active associates of Alm at that point (well Zeke probably still would have been, but I doubt he would have returned to Archanea after leaving Nyna a final time).

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8 minutes ago, Jotari said:

(well Zeke probably still would have been, but I doubt he would have returned to Archanea after leaving Nyna a final time).

To be fair, it's not like the area of Archanea they go to is that well connected to the rest. He could still go, it's not like they're going anywhere near any of the mainly populated parts of the continent. In the character endings it was stated Zeke would leave and return at times, so another trip to Archanea could still be possible for him. Just, far away from the southeastern part (not knowing Nyna left to who knows where and is no longer there).

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4 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

To be fair, it's not like the area of Archanea they go to is that well connected to the rest. He could still go, it's not like they're going anywhere near any of the mainly populated parts of the continent. In the character endings it was stated Zeke would leave and return at times, so another trip to Archanea could still be possible for him. Just, far away from the southeastern part (not knowing Nyna left to who knows where and is no longer there).

Well I'm working under the assumption that Alm had a purpose to go to Archanea beyond exploring it's north western tip.

Zeke's character ending doesn't suggest he left and come back multiple times. If Tatiana is alive, it just says he remembered his past but kept it hidden from her, while if she's dead he simply never returns to Valentia at all.

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3 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Well I'm working under the assumption that Alm had a purpose to go to Archanea beyond exploring it's north western tip.

Zeke's character ending doesn't suggest he left and come back multiple times. If Tatiana is alive, it just says he remembered his past but kept it hidden from her, while if she's dead he simply never returns to Valentia at all.

It's possible. Depending on how much traffic is between the two continents, I would've expected at least Marth and Alm meeting up. Still, the trip to Archanea in SoV sounds more it's for the player to learn of Grima's origins than something the characters actually do in-game. Who knows.

Tatiana's has this line:

Quote

Though they were parted at times, Zeke always returned to Tatiana's side in the end.

That sounds Zeke would go to who knows where. Perhaps still within Valentia, but outside the continent can't exactly be ruled out. Regardless, I'd still think he had to be near Archanea at least once, assuming news from the east aren't that common. He had to have learned about the continent's current affairs to make him go search for Grust's royal children. That's the reason he went there in the first place, then getting tangled in the War of Heroes.

Maybe it's just me, but looking at the map, the Archanean Seaway passes close to Grust. I think that's when he could've heard it, and decided to make a side-trip to Archanea.

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9 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

It's possible. Depending on how much traffic is between the two continents, I would've expected at least Marth and Alm meeting up. Still, the trip to Archanea in SoV sounds more it's for the player to learn of Grima's origins than something the characters actually do in-game. Who knows.

Tatiana's has this line:

That sounds Zeke would go to who knows where. Perhaps still within Valentia, but outside the continent can't exactly be ruled out. Regardless, I'd still think he had to be near Archanea at least once, assuming news from the east aren't that common. He had to have learned about the continent's current affairs to make him go search for Grust's royal children. That's the reason he went there in the first place, then getting tangled in the War of Heroes.

Maybe it's just me, but looking at the map, the Archanean Seaway passes close to Grust. I think that's when he could've heard it, and decided to make a side-trip to Archanea.

We do know that Camus definitely returned to Archanea at least once to take part in Mystery of the Emblem, but after that I can't really see it being part of his character arc to return, as he needs to cut ties with Archanea in order to stay loyal to Tatiana (unless he's just expertly pulling the whole two families in two different cites gambit that many a man have somehow ended up trying). That's the way I interpret his character at any rate. You know, the classic love triangle between a man, a woman and an entire continent.

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2 minutes ago, Jotari said:

We do know that Camus definitely returned to Archanea at least once to take part in Mystery of the Emblem, but after that I can't really see it being part of his character arc to return, as he needs to cut ties with Archanea in order to stay loyal to Tatiana (unless he's just expertly pulling the whole two families in two different cites gambit that many a man have somehow ended up trying). That's the way I interpret his character at any rate. You know, the classic love triangle between a man, a woman and an entire continent.

I don't see him trying to pull that. His appearance in Mystery was clearly a "tie up his unfinished business from his previous life before finally moving on" vibe to it. Besides, it wouldn't happen anyway since Nyna disappears to who knows where (though imagine if she ever travels to Valentia and finds him). Anyway, I still wouldn't rule out him participating in the Trip to Thabes bit, since again, it's a remote part of Archanea. Then again, it would have to matter when that trip would take place, assuming it did took place.

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Looking at each character individually:

Alm - The wielder of Falchion, so he obviously has to go.

Celica -  She's proven she can more than handle herself in a fight, and I don't see Alm as the "stay somewhere safe to keep you from harm" kind of guy, so she would probably join him. She might not go if she rules the kingdom while Alm is away, but that's a can of worms about if the exhibition is canon at all.

Alms Side:

Grey -  He's a friend of Alm's and became a member of the One Kingdoms order of knights. He would probably join if asked.

Tobin - Another friend of Alm, and like Grey also became a knight (and eventually a lord, but that seems to be later in life). Again, he would probably go if asked.

Kliff - He vanishes a short time after the game ends. It's possible that he'd join the exhibition before he bids Alm farewell, but he's on the less likely side of canonical explorers.

Faye - She returned to Ram village after the war, although it's not really specified when. While it's likely she would jump on at the chance to go on a trip with Alm, there's not really much implying that she's an amazing fighter storywise. I'd say whether or not she went depends on if more characters traveled there than what are allowed into dungeons.

Lukas - Another knight. Since they're under orders form the king, they would join Alm if he asked any of them to come.

Silque - She traveled the continent helping the wounded after the war. It's possible, but unlikely, that she went.

Clair - Yet another knight. Notice a pattern yet?

Clive - The captain of the Brotherhood of Knights. Because of that title, he may have gone with Alm, but he may also have stayed behind to guard the kingdom.

Forsyth - Another knight. Should probably bring up that if Alm doesn't ask them to join, the reason would probably be to protect the land while he's away.

Python - He formed a militia after the game. It's possible that Python would join if Alm asked, but it's also likely that he stayed at home to defend villages and towns from bandits.

Mathilda - While she retired from fighting after marrying Clive, she also rarely appeared in public as well. Depending on the time frame, she may have joined the Thabes exhibition as a regular soldier, or in secret  after marrying Clive. She's a formidable warrior, so I could see why Alm would like for her to join, but he might also respect her wishes to retire from that way of life and support Clive in a different fashion. How canonical she is is an either or situation.

Luthier - He did travel to Archenea to further his magical ability. Getting there via the Thabes exhibition is a possibility, so he may be an explorer.

Delthea - She decided to give up magic at the end of the game. As powerful of a mage as she is, Delthea probably didn't go.

Zeke - Depends on if he's using Thabes as an excuse to get to Archenea again, or if he's already participating in Mystery. Considering he's a knight and legendary warrior, Alm may hae also asked him to come regardless of having the next game in mind. Again, the unknown timing of Thabes affects his status as a canon explorer.

Tatiana -  Because Zeke left a few times to handle situations elsewhere, it's not surprising if she stayed home if Zeke went to Thabes.

Mycen -  Alm's right hand man when he became king, so it's likely Mycen went on the exhibition. It's also a possibility that he stayed behind to handle running the kingdom while Alm was away.

Celica's Side:

Boey - He returned to Novis to live a peaceful life there. He might join if Celica asked, but it's not likely he went.

Mae - Same as Boey.

Genny - Her ending just states that she got married. It's possible she went, she's not high on the list of possible canonical explorers.

Saber - He helped with the formation of the mercenary kingdom. If paid, he would have probably joined.

Valbar - Yet another knight. Because he seemed to work as a trainer for new recruits, it's possible he may has stayed home to continue that duty.

Leon - Depends on the timing. He was a knight until an injury ended his career as a soldier. Thus, he may of traveled to Thabes, but he also may have been retired by then.

Kamui - Same scenario as Saber.

The Whitewings -  It's unlikely they went on the exhibition, simply because they're involved in Mystery. Still, depending on the timing, they may have joined the explorers when heading home.

Atlus - His ending says that he'd rush to Celica's side if she was in need. Depends on whether or not Thabes counts.

Jesse - Founder of the mercenary kingdom. Like Saber and Kamui, he may have joined if there was money involved.

Sonya - Focused upon finding a cure for witches after the war. It's unlikely she went, unless she got word that Thabes had the answers Sonya wanted.

Deen - Has a "left without a trace" ending.

Nomah - Was probably more focused upon uniting the religions of Duma and Mila. It's not impossible that he joined the exhibition, but it is unlikely.

Condrad - Hung up his lance to become a civil servant, but it's possible he would have joined Celica for one last battle if she asked.

 

TL;DR any of the characters that became knights in their endings where the most likely to join the exhibition. The mercenaries are also likely if they were paid to do so. As for everyone else, it's not impossible that they went, but it's too dependent on timing or it being a side journey. 

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1 hour ago, Hawkwing said:

Leon - Depends on the timing. He was a knight until an injury ended his career as a soldier. Thus, he may of traveled to Thabes, but he also may have been retired by then.

Could have been in Thabes where he gets that very injury.

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You know, even Alm doesn't have to be there. Putting aside whether or not there was a trip to Thabes in the first place, nothing says they had to reach the bottom and fight proto-Grima. Maybe they respect there's a seal blocking the way half-way through for a reason, and so leave instead of unlocking it and head further in. So Alm wouldn't have to be there to strike down an enemy they didn't had to fight in the first place. I still don't see Alm and/or Celica putting aside their royal duties to personally go escort a random merchant. Give him an escort, maybe, but not outright going with him.

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  • 2 months later...
On 2/23/2019 at 4:12 AM, Acacia Sgt said:

You know, even Alm doesn't have to be there. Putting aside whether or not there was a trip to Thabes in the first place, nothing says they had to reach the bottom and fight proto-Grima. Maybe they respect there's a seal blocking the way half-way through for a reason, and so leave instead of unlocking it and head further in. So Alm wouldn't have to be there to strike down an enemy they didn't had to fight in the first place. I still don't see Alm and/or Celica putting aside their royal duties to personally go escort a random merchant. Give him an escort, maybe, but not outright going with him.

Adding on to this, even if they did go all the way to the bottom, Alm doesn't have to be the one to finish Grima. I didn't touch him with anybody but Python.

Even so, I place Alm and Celica both in my canonical list of explorers, because people like Mycen and Massena are still in Valentia to run the country in their absence.

As for other characters, my opinion on a canonical team:

Alm: Even as the ruler of Valentia, he and Celica both would probably help the foreign trader out, both because altruism and because at least it allows them to make connections to Archanea. Plus, he's busted, and even if he isn't needed to beat the Creation, I still have a hard time imagining beating Thabes without him. Seriously, he's a godsend.

Celica: Exactly the same reasons as Alm

Gray/Tobin/Lukas/Clair: They all became knights, and I'm fairly certain they would have joined if Alm asked them. The only issue I see depends on timeframe, if the expedition happens too soon (which I see as unlikely based on Alm and Celica both going), as they'd all be fairly integral members of the new order of knights founded to protect Valentia, just based on their seniority alone. If enough time has passed, I assume the order would have grown enough on its own accord that they could leave the continent on an expedition if their king asked them to.

Saber: Swore fealty to Celica after she revealed her identity at the end of Act 3, and his ending stated that he served the One Kingdom on many occasions. This could have been one of them.

Genny: Saber's ending also stated that his "stunning bride" was by his side during these times, so if the prevailing theory is correct and if Saber did explore Thabes, then Genny is another prominent candidate. As a plus, she would have wanted to help out Celica, it might have been interesting material for a novel of hers, and the Thabes team really needs a healer.

Kamui: He's the most merc-y of the mercs, if he heard that there was money involved with this escort job, he would have jumped aboard. A trip to another continent would also be an exciting way for him to scratch his self-confessed wanderlust itch. The only problem with this is that I'm not sure how necessary his presence is for the functioning of the merc kingdom; if he was just some official, I can see him as going along.

Atlas: His ending stated that he aided Celica whenever she was in need, and if Celica asked, he would most likely have jumped at the opportunity.

Those are the only ones I'm certain of, though there are a few more possibilities:

Conrad: Similar to Atlas, if Celica asked, he'd probably go along, but considering he allegedly hung up his lance, he's less likely to have joined.

Luthier: Considering he went on an expedition of his own to improve his own magic, and it's implied he ended up in Archanea, what better way to train is there than to go into Thabes? Granted, the timeframe of his leaving is a little spotty, he might have left the continent before the unification process was complete.

 

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I think both Alm and Celica go. But that kinda eliminates Mycen and maybe Conrad and Clive as well as somebody has to watch over the kingdom. So, with 8 spots remaining:

Kliff: I don't think they even need to ask Kliff, his personal travels brought him there and they enter together.

Faye: I feel like if Faye so much as hears a rumor that Alm is doing something potentially dangerous that she'd show up and Naga help anyone that tries to stop her.

Saber: It's smart to hire help when traveling in unknown lands and Saber proved himself time and time again already that his presence is practically guaranteed.

 Luthier: If Luthier knows anything about Thabes' history, I can see his personal travels leading him to the labrynth as well.

 Atlas: Pretty much same as Faye but for Celica, and to a slightly lesser degree.

Forsyth/Mathilda: If Clive can't go himself, he'd probs wanna send one of his best. Mathilda has no commitments like Clive does but did retire. Forsyth could go but it's sad to imagine him going without Python.

Tobin: I can see him wanting to take care of his family holding him back but I can also see him feeling indebted enough to Alm to go anyway. 

Zeke: I think this is similar to Kliff and Luthier. His memory of Archanea leads him to Thabes and journeys in with Alm and co out of convenience.

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