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What do you figure "E+" weapon rank is?


Cysx
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For reference, here's a regular E and a D:

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These E+ seem to appear on weapon skills the character has a blue arrow pointing up on, which is referred to as a "strength" by the game and gives an exp boost; but either it's unrelated, or I don't see the advantage in getting an exp boost if your special rank requires more exp too. And if it's unrelated, well, I'm just not quite sure what they're about.

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As far as I can tell, it corresponds to the user being able to physically wield E rank weapons. A standard E rank is just a potential and you can't equip weapons from that category yet.

This is probably why D+ doesn't exist. If you have a weapon rank of D, it's obvious that you can wield weapons from that category.

Edited by VincentASM
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I think the E+ and so on are meant to extend the weapon mastery progress. In the trailer, we can see that units now require more than 100 exp to level up, so they most likely wanted to extend weapon mastery too. Though if that's the case, why not just increase the amount of exp needed for each weapon rank? I think it might be that more weapons unlock at different ranks. Or maybe you can only use a forged E rank weapon and so on when you reach E+ or something.

I kinda doubt that the E+ signifies that a student has trouble learning something, as in the trailer at about 3:48, you can see that Dorothea has an E+ in swords, which also has a strength icon next to it.

Edited by Calico
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2 hours ago, VincentASM said:

As far as I can tell, it corresponds to the user being able to physically wield E rank weapons. A standard E rank is just a potential and you can't equip weapons from that category yet.

This is probably why D+ doesn't exist. If you have a weapon rank of D, it's obvious that you can wield weapons from that category.

That's an interesting take on it, and would definitely make the earlygame considerably less overwhelming than if everyone could use everything. To be fair, if the strengths and the ranks are unrelated we're left with nothing to prove that D+ doesn't exist afaik... but outside of that I can definitely get behind this explanation. It's a bit of a roundabout way of communicating things, though.
 

35 minutes ago, Calico said:

I think the E+ and so on are meant to extend the weapon mastery progress. In the trailer, we can see that units now require more than 100 exp to level up, so they most likely wanted to extend weapon mastery to. Though if that's the case, why not just increase the amount of exp needed for each weapon rank? I think it might be that more weapons unlock at different ranks. Or maybe you can only use a forged E rank weapon and so on when you reach E+ or something.

Yes, my main problem with that is... will there really be enough weapons to justify having in-between ranks to the 5 or 6 we already are bound to get? Sounds both overcomplicated and a bit unrealistic. The ability to use forges definitely looks like a possible explanation. But, another reason I'm not sure about intermediate ranks is that Petra's kill only gave her 3 weapon exp in swords, and that might be with a 1.5x bonus if it's one of her strengths, which seems likely as she apparently starts at D. Similarly, Dorothea needed a focus and a strength to go from 4 exp to 9 in reason magic, which is still not that much. In a context where you'd need to go through E and E+ to reach D, those gains seem very low to me.

Edited by Cysx
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21 minutes ago, Cysx said:

Yes, my main problem with that is... will there really be enough weapons to justify having in-between ranks to the 5 or 6 we already are bound to get? Sounds both overcomplicated and a bit unrealistic. 

If each weapon rank (Including S) has a + rank, we'd have 12 weapon ranks total. Using Fates:Birthright as an example, there are 19 Katana, 17 Naginata, 16 Clubs, and 16 Yumi. (And this is excluding character-exclusive or enemy exclusive weapons like Raijinto). That's enough for each rank to have at least one weapon unlocked by reaching it. The number of weapons will probably be greater than that, since Conquest weapons pretty much double the number of available weapons, and even Awakening had 29 non-character locked swords. I don't think the number of weapons will be a problem. Though I still think the forging explanation is more likely.

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3 minutes ago, Calico said:

If each weapon rank (Including S) has a + rank, we'd have 12 weapon ranks total. Using Fates:Birthright as an example, there are 19 Katana, 17 Naginata, 16 Clubs, and 16 Yumi. (And this is excluding character-exclusive or enemy exclusive weapons like Raijinto). That's enough for each rank to have at least one weapon unlocked by reaching it. The number of weapons will probably be greater than that, since Conquest weapons pretty much double the number of available weapons, and even Awakening had 29 non-character locked swords. I don't think the number of weapons will be a problem. Though I still think the forging explanation is more likely.

I'm not really disputing that 12+ weapons is potentially happening(though a lot of the ones you are citing weren't readily available to the player and would have cluttered the shops if they were; and there's little reason to believe legendary weapons will require anything less than max rank), it's more like... that'd make everything way more complicated for basically no reason. I really doubt that they went for that.

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After some thought, I do agree E+ is just an extra weapon rank and there's probably stuff like D+ too.

That said, there isn't a direct correlation between having an E+ and a Strength. What's probably happening is that characters start with increased weapon ranks for those they have a strength in.

In the Japanese trailer, Dorothea has E+ in Authority without a Strength:

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Looks like it's own rank. Nice screenshot. Progression seems to go from 40 xp to 60 xp required to rank up. D has 80, which follows the idea each rank (including "+" ranks) adds 20 xp. Perhaps it adds +hit or +dmg when using those weapons. A separation of unlocking and gaining rank bonuses for a weapon of a certain rank?

 

Edit: Could combat arts be unlocked at certain "+" ranks? This would make a unit with "curved shot" for bows make sense. They unlocked "E+" bows, which would enable "curves shot" use when a bow is equipped.

Edited by Centh
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Maybe Weapon Rank Bonuses return but instead this time Base Ranks only allow you to use a weapon type, while Rank+ provides you with the bonuses. Something like:

Rank E: Can use E Rank weapons

Rank E+: Can use E Rank weapons & receive Attack +1

Or maybe Rank+ allows you to use weapons from the rank above but with a penalty.

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2 minutes ago, Enduin said:

Maybe Weapon Rank Bonuses return but instead this time Base Ranks only allow you to use a weapon type, while Rank+ provides you with the bonuses. Something like:

Rank E: Can use E Rank weapons

Rank E+: Can use E Rank weapons & receive Attack +1

Or maybe Rank+ allows you to use weapons from the rank above but with a penalty.

Exactly what I'm thinking. Something about a bonus with "+". Possibly to add investment cost to reclassing? Take Echoes weapon skill learning and push it into weapon ranks instead.

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2 minutes ago, Centh said:

Exactly what I'm thinking. Something about a bonus with "+". Possibly to add investment cost to reclassing? Take Echoes weapon skill learning and push it into weapon ranks instead.

I didn't think of Weapon Arts, maybe instead of having to use an item X number of times to unlock the weapon skill all you need to do is achieve + Rank to use it.

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2 hours ago, VincentASM said:

That said, there isn't a direct correlation between having an E+ and a Strength. What's probably happening is that characters start with increased weapon ranks for those they have a strength in.

In the Japanese trailer, Dorothea has E+ in Authority without a Strength:

I had just noticed that too, actually. After several people pointed out differences in the japanese trailer I took a look, and that's one of them. I'm definitely not sold on + ranks being additional intermediary ones though, but eh, we'll see.

But now I'm curious about what the kanji besides the hand translates to... save me, internet!

1 hour ago, Centh said:

Could combat arts be unlocked at certain "+" ranks? This would make a unit with "curved shot" for bows make sense. They unlocked "E+" bows, which would enable "curves shot" use when a bow is equipped.

1 hour ago, Enduin said:

Maybe Weapon Rank Bonuses return but instead this time Base Ranks only allow you to use a weapon type, while Rank+ provides you with the bonuses. Something like:

Rank E: Can use E Rank weapons

Rank E+: Can use E Rank weapons & receive Attack +1

Or maybe Rank+ allows you to use weapons from the rank above but with a penalty.

Both of those seem possible, though the slow progression problem remains. I guess the values could change with time/levels, but as it stands, going through four full weapon ranks to get to C for example, sounds... lengthy. To me anyway.

Edit:

One could be use experience and one could be the "teacher points" or whatever they are, but that sounds a bit confusing for the same progress bar.

Yeah, not too sure about that one.

Edited by Cysx
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23 minutes ago, Cysx said:

I had just noticed that too, actually. After several people pointed out differences in the japanese trailer I took a look, and that's one of them. I'm definitely not sold on + ranks being additional intermediary ones though, but eh, we'll see.

But now I'm curious about what the kanji besides the hand translates to... save me, internet!

That was something I pointed out (cough) in my initial analysis ^^

It says "Teacher/Staff Bonus". If I had to guess, it seems to be Byleth's bonus. Perhaps it depends on Byleth's current class? Sword makes sense since he always uses swords in the trailers. Authority also seems logical. Axes though... hmm, that's interesting.

Edited by VincentASM
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xvFGjAZ.jpg

教員補正

Looks correct. Translates as "teacher correction"...

Not that helpful, but it seems like it's tied to Byleth in some way... maybe we'll get to pick stats Byleth will be especially good at teaching? Or maybe it's tied to his or her current class?

Edit: Oh, whoops, apologies... I did read most of your analysis... guess I missed that part somehow. At least we think alikeXD
Thanks for the precision.

Edited by Cysx
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23 minutes ago, VincentASM said:

That was something I pointed out (cough) in my initial analysis ^^

It says "Teacher/Staff Bonus". If I had to guess, it seems to be Byleth's bonus. Perhaps it depends on Byleth's current class? Sword makes sense since he always uses swords in the trailers. Authority also seems logical. Axes though... hmm, that's interesting.

Maybe rather than the avatar current class i would hope it takes from their talent/whatever is named here, so you can already start the game a little customized since you starting best subjects won't be always Swords.

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I think Grinva has it right. It probably means that you have enough WEXP for a higher rank but your class prevents it from actually ranking up. 

This way you can continue to earn WEXP in categories that can’t be improved based on your class, so that whatever training or activity is done isn’t wasted by not being in the proper class. 

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