Supports in Three Houses

[Florete]

If Fates allowed us to marry our family, including our blood cousin, I see no reason Three Houses won't allow us to marry students.

As for LGBT...Please, IS, listen to the feedback we gave you after Fates. I give that somewhat of a pass because it was their first foray, but there are no excuses now. You can do better. My hope is to get at least three LGBT members for each gender, with one on each side being strictly gay and therefore only romanceable by the same gender, be it the avatar or another bi character.

[Ertrick36]

16 hours ago, carefreejules said:

there's a difference between representation and GOOD representation.

Finally, a statement on the issue (or really, any issue of representation of disenfranchised people) that I can agree with.  Just jamming such characters into your game just for the sake of "checking off a list" results in complete trite at best (basically a lot of EA's non-sports games nowadays) or something outright offensive at worst.

 

Anyway, just jumping in without reading a whole lot of opinions because I already know there's some argument going on, I feel more inclined to have Byleth romance other professors.  I'm just more into older women - not elders, but I'm not much a fan of girls under 20 tbh (I know, crazy, right? a 23, almost 24 year old man who isn't into 12 year-olds? absolute madness).  I might opt to have him/her romance students if I like those characters and their relationships enough (if they boil down to "b-but your my teacher/student" then hell no), but honestly unless they make the romance mechanic mean more than just a mere stat boost (e.g. Fates' Partner Sealing), I'm probably just gonna be more interested in the platonic relationships and whatever gay relationships are there.

6 hours ago, NegativeExponents- said:

As for LGBT+ representation, well, first off, I hope it’s included and explicitly stated that said character is LGBT+ instead of having it heavily hinted but at the end still being ambiguous like FE, and countless other games, have done so many times before.

Secondly, I want more than just a token LGBT+ character. There’s three reasons for this: 1. Gives LGBT+ players more than one option instead treating them like an afterthought. 2. Giving the LGBT+ characters a romance life outside of the Avatar. 3. More positive representation is never a bad thing as it’ll allow the game to appeal to a wider audience.

Lastly, I don’t want none of that “I’m only gay/lesbian if it’s with you” bullshit that writers love to use (screw Rhajat) and similarly, don’t throw that fricking homophobic “girls only date other girls to prepare themselves for real relationships” stereotype that Soleil pretty much had. Basically, don’t do anything to dismiss the characters sexuality in an attempt to... well I don’t even know what possesses a writer to do that. In an attempt to make them likable to bigots? Idk but just don’t do it.

Yes to all of this.  Particularly the last one.

One thing I actually appreciated that the localization did was they made it so Soleil actually is as close to gay as they could've made her with how limited the original game was with her romance options.  It wasn't ideal, but it was significantly better than that absolute trite that was in the original.  Homosexuality isn't a goddamn one-time fling, it's not a game, and it's not a choice.  If it was, nobody would be gay because no one wants to be bullied and treated like shit their entire lives.  You can't control if you're into boys, girls, or anyone in between, just like how you can't control if you're into girls with blonde hair or brown hair or both.

And I've never liked that "I'm only gay for you" crap.  I'm... lukewarm-okay with Rhajat's original lesbian support where she wishes she was a man but Corrin tells her they can love one another anyway - partly because it was their first time including an openly gay relationship in a FE game - but I'd rather just have the characters be okay with each other being the same gender in the first place.  No "but we're girls/guys", no "if only I was a boy/girl", just plain old love between two people.  But they seem to always gotta treat it like a taboo...

It's why UnassumingVenusaur (person who made the Gay Awakening and Gay Fates hacks) is one of the few hackers I can recall by name.  Her gay FE hacks are all good, genuine gay love, and I'd even venture to say her romance writing is better than IS's.  I mean hell, she managed to make a relationship between Camilla and Oboro, of all pairs, work better than some of the actual pairs that are possible in the original game.  That says a lot.  And for most of them, the characters aren't even guffawing about how they're the same gender, they're just like "oh wow, we're into each other now, wild".  And it'd just be really neat if IS could just write all their romance like she does, or just outright hire her as one of their writers.

Edited February 16, 2019 by Ertrick36

[Decerd]

It still amazes me that some folks think that, after all of the dough Awakening and Fates raked in, marriage isn't going to be in/will not have as much as a presence in Three Houses.

Guys, come on. Weather you like it or not, Three House is going to have marriage.  As far as the whole student-teacher thing goes, ever single character in Three Houses so far looks to be of legal age, so I don't see the issue here. 

[YingofDarkness]

Marriage is going to be in. The students are going to be marriagable by anyone that wants to do so, and I've accepted that this is going to be the case. I still don't like it, but there is no way they are going to cut off such a large cast from the Avatar. Especially not with all the special attention they are giving Edelgard, Dmitri, and Claude.

As for LGBT characters, there will definitely be at least two of them in there. Whether they are in any of the houses or separate characters you can recruit regardless of route will be the actual issue. It would be nice if we actually get both. One in each house is either gay/lesbian or just bi, and then there are two others that you will get regardless of route.

[Lewyn]

People don't see the issue here, really?  Well many of us have been to or are in college right?  College students are legal age right?  So is it not an issue for professors to be banging and marrying their students?  

As for representation.  If doing gay characters, can they have ones that don't scream 'gay stereotype' all the time?  Leon acting like a lovestruck schoolgirl obsessed with Valdibar, his whole character amounts to Valdibar is the ideal man I love him...and that is it.  Sexuality shouldn't define the character, just cause a character is gay doesn't mean that is all there is to him or her.  That just makes for terrible writing, and also reeks of just checking off a box and throwing in a token this or that.

 

[Sentinel07]

13 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

People don't see the issue here, really?  Well many of us have been to or are in college right?  College students are legal age right?  So is it not an issue for professors to be banging and marrying their students?  

I think for many people, the idea is still weird as a teacher likely has a significant age difference compared to most students, even in college.

Also, I think it carries a more negative stigma with a lot of people as the idea of a teacher getting it on with a student might give off signs of favoritism. 

[Kiran_]

Also, it's the same way for anyone who has a job. Your supervisor/manager should not be banging their subordinates. Why do you think office hookups are such a landmine when it involves a direct report.

Be it good or bad, American society puts a lot of emphasis on power imbalances. Teacher > Student. Boss > Employee. I don't know why people are acting as if it's NOT a weird thing. People gossip about it all the time because it's mildly looked down upon. Whether this is right or wrong is a whole different story, but people who are complaining of power imbalances are correct.

I'm just happy everyone DOES look of age at the least. I could never marry off Sakura or Elise in Fates because they were LITTLE GIRLS. No matter what offhand comment Leo says. Same with Lissa in Awakening, but that one was a little more stomach-able because the kid was from the future and I just imagined Owain was sorta the youngest among them, so Lissa clearly would get married in the future and her "husband" was just that future.

I'd be happy for LGBT+ representation as well that isn't a stalker (Rhajat) or a sadisitc killer (Niles). But honestly Fates was full of gross, weird characters imo, so I'm not really upset about that representation because there weren't that many GOOD characters. I figure though we'll just get the token one for each gender, though I'd prefer 2 for each gender, with one of those options being bi.

I'd also be happy for some more diverse color representation, but based on the cast we've seen, the LGBT+ is more what I can hope for.

[Aiddon]

Considering one of FE's biggest draws has been the Support system, there will DEFINITELY be romancing. The whole main character being a teacher...yeah, that's gonna be an issue. If they go through with it that's all sorts of problematic. Maybe they'll do something with how you can't S-Rank students or how they can't be S-Ranked unless they graduate or whatever. Furthermore, can we please get some other instructors in there? And put some other LGBT characters in there. I was fine with Niles and Rhajat (it especially made sense for the latter), but the more the merrier.

Also, for the love of Naga, let's NEVER have the Soleil thing again. Liked her character, but that support was...YOWZA

Edited February 16, 2019 by Aiddon

[Ertrick36]

3 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Sexuality shouldn't define the character, just cause a character is gay doesn't mean that is all there is to him or her.  That just makes for terrible writing, and also reeks of just checking off a box and throwing in a token this or that.

You pretty much just described EA's LGBTQ inclusion method: just make the main aspect of these characters be their homosexuality.

That isn't really inclusion, what they're doing is called flanderization, and it's looked upon very poorly in writing circles, especially with pieces that are supposed to be serious.  All they're doing is giving the naysayers a punching bag and a laughing stock, and making abominations which clueless people will judge the LGBT community off of, thus exacerbating the pervasive stereotypes that plague them and resulting in further stigmatization.

4 minutes ago, Aiddon said:

Also, for the love of Naga, let's NEVER have the Soleil thing again. Liked her character, but that support was...YOWZA

There were a number of "Soleil things", but no matter which one you're actually referring to, I wholeheartedly agree 

I'm just glad she wasn't localized as the shitty "pretend" lesbian she was originally in the Japanese version.  I riff on a lot of anime tropes, but that is undoubtedly one of the absolute worst tropes to come out of Japanese media.

8 minutes ago, Aiddon said:

Maybe they'll do something with how you can't S-Rank students or how they can't be S-Ranked unless they graduate or whatever.

Yeah, that sounds good to me.

It'd also serve as a way to throttle relationship building until lategame so that you can't grind early on for early game marriages.  One thing I liked about Echoes was how you couldn't achieve certain support ranks until you got to certain points in the story, such as Gray and Clair's A-support not being available until Act 4.  Makes the pace of the relationship building feel more natural.

[Lewyn]

4 minutes ago, Ertrick36 said:

You pretty much just described EA's LGBTQ inclusion method: just make the main aspect of these characters be their homosexuality.

That isn't really inclusion, what they're doing is called flanderization, and it's looked upon very poorly in writing circles, especially with pieces that are supposed to be serious.  All they're doing is giving the naysayers a punching bag and a laughing stock, and making abominations which clueless people will judge the LGBT community off of, thus exacerbating the pervasive stereotypes that plague them and resulting in further stigmatization.

 

Yes this, it is actually much better to have zero representation than have representation that just reinforces gay stereotypes.  So build a character, personality, interests (not sexual), hobbies, past history, and then if they want to make him/her gay fine.  FE hasn't done a good job for the most part

[Shrimpica]

1 hour ago, Lewyn said:

So is it not an issue for professors to be banging and marrying their students?  

Professors in real life are 30+ year older then their students. Creepy. That doesn't seem to be the case here. They seem to be the same age range

And while i didn't see a Professor x Student, i saw a Tutor/Professor-assistant x Student (and said Tutors or Professor assistant grade homeworks/exams). And Nobody had a problem with it (Usually also because said people can be checked by other Tutors/Assistants or Professor in case a power abuse is suspected).

I mean, what if i was a Tutor and suddenly found my GF in my class? should i just give up my work? Or do i need to kick her out? 

Then again, i am not murcian.

48 minutes ago, Kiran_ said:

power imbalances

Last i checked, Nobles hold much much more Power over a Mercenary then a Teacher over his Students. They could get him beheaded any second.

 

49 minutes ago, Kiran_ said:

American society puts a lot of emphasis on power imbalances

I am slowly starting to think America is more weird the japan tbh.

 

Honestly, People need to learn to seperate Reality and Fiction.

[Lewyn]

1 minute ago, Shrimperor said:

Professors in real life are 30+ year older then their students. Creepy. That doesn't seem to be the case here. They seem to be the same age range

And while i didn't see a Professor x Student, i saw a Tutor/Professor-assistant x Student (and said Tutors or Professor assistant grade homeworks/exams). And Nobody had a problem with it (Usually also because said people can be checked by other Tutors/Assistants or Professor in case a power abuse is suspected).

I mean, what if i was a Tutor and suddenly found my GF in my class? should i just give up my work? Or do i need to kick her out? 

Then again, i am not murcian.

Last i checked, Nobles hold much much more Power over a Mercenary then a Teacher over his Students. They could get him beheaded any second.

 

I am slowly starting to think America is more weird the japan tbh.

 

Honestly, People need to learn to seperate Reality and Fiction.

30+ years older? Hardly there are young professors who teach right after they receive their PhDs.  Also the point and why it is looked down so poorly is the position of power.  Also yeah if you want to bang your student regardless of how attractive she is, you shouldn't follow up on that cause it would horribly wrong.  

America is definitely weird, but not in its viewpoint on this.  Clue me in on Japan though, do professors date their students there, is that the norm?

[Shrimpica]

4 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

  Also the point and why it is looked down so poorly is the position of power.

again, in the case of FE16, the nobles hold much more Power over a mercenary teacher then he over them

 

4 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Also yeah if you want to bang your student regardless of how attractive she is, you shouldn't follow up on that cause it would horribly wrong.  

What i said was ''What if she was my GF and then became my student?'' not ''I wanna bang my student''

4 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

America is definitely weird, but not in its viewpoint on this.  Clue me in on Japan though, do professors date their students there, is that the norm?

Dunno, i am not an expert on japan either (although i doubt that's the norm), but atleast they don't seem to be afraid of every small bit of skin shown while glorifying violence everywhere

Edited February 17, 2019 by Shrimperor

[Othin]

I'd consider "mid-story graduation and you can only S-rank the students afterward" to be a good enough compromise. Still raises some questions, but at that point it's minor enough compared to what Fates pulled that whatever. I don't know how they'd make a mid-story graduation work with the mechanics, but it seems workable enough and would probably make for a better story than having them still be in school as you go off to fight a world-destroying dragon/god/demon/whatever. As much as I'm sick of it, the "you can marry any playable ally regardless of reasons not to" mechanic doesn't seem to be going anywhere.

(Or more accurately, it's "regardless of reasons not to, as long as you're not the same gender as them". Maybe if they removed gender restrictions on marriage for ALL characters, it'd at least feel more consistent.)

[GreyJedi]

Right, newbie here jumping right into controversy. Great.

 

If I remember correctly, we got homosexual characters in Fates because of fan outcry. If that’s the case, then IS/Nintendo DEFINITELY heard the outcry about Soleil. So, I’m guessing that we’ll both get marriage supports and 2-4 bisexual characters that will won’t quite be as unfortunate as Soleil.

43 minutes ago, Ertrick36 said:

You pretty much just described EA's LGBTQ inclusion method: just make the main aspect of these characters be their homosexuality

 

The problem is, most characters in FE tend to have one gimmick which comes up in almost every support conversation (Robin has their tactics and studying; Cordelia has her feelings for Chrom and how perfect she is; Kellam, how he’s invisible; Felicia, how clumsy she is; and so on). So, when we get a character that’s LGBT? That becomes their ‘thing,’ which gets brought up every time.

 

On the whole teacher dating student controversy:

The principal at the high school I graduated from used to be a teacher at the same high school first. The thing is, his wife used to be a student. I believe they started dating her senior year, while he was teaching. But they did it completely legitimately, as right as they could. They even got a written and signed document between themselves, her parents, and the district before they started dating. At some point, they eventually got married, and some twenty years later, their son just graduated from the same high school. And that son as me. jk. He was a freshman while I was a senior. But the principal was good; never did anything weird or wrong that I heard of.

I think most people are having a normal knee jerk reaction to something that they’ve never seen before, and therefore, they find weird. When most people think about a teacher dating a student, their mind immediately jumps to every news report they’ve ever heard about a teacher sexually abusing their students. But that isn’t the case here, and that’s not what this game is going for.

On power imbalances: No doubt, there’s been too many cases where someone in power (stereotypically a man, but not always) uses they power to force their subordinate into a relationship with them. That’s morally despicable. But it’s a jump to then claim that every relationship between two people of differing social/financial/whatever status happened because the person with less power was forced into the relationship. I highly doubt the game is going to have Byleth black mailing their students about grades to force people into having relationships with them.

That being said, I DO like you guy's idea about marrying after the students graduate. But judging from the trailer, I'm thinking the school is basally going to replace the 'My Castle' feature, and will last the whole game.

[EJ107]

I really hope that romantic S-supports return to some degree, and that they expand on the same-sex options. I feel like it's reached the point now where there are so many characters and potential relationships in the series that LGBT characters and relationships are massively underrepresented, even if you're ignoring that it's a fantasy setting and looking solely at "real life" demographics. 

The whole idea of being able to marry almost every unit of the opposite sex and produce time travelling babies is already so ridiculous that they may as well just remove gender restrictions completely if they are going to keep doing it. If they are going to go full fanservice again like in fates, why not go all the way? It's already done to a lesser degree in Heroes, where a lot of units flirt with the summoner, whose gender is ambiguous, to some extent. 

My main desire though, is to see at least one same sex pairing that doesn't include Byleth. Is it really too much to ask to have two characters in the roster who happen to be gay or bi and like each other? There are plenty of same-sex pairings in Fates and Awakening that would have made a lot more sense and been a lot more compatible than many of the forced S-supports between the male and female units. 

Edited February 17, 2019 by EJ107

[SimplyUnknown]

Personally, I would like to see S-supports in the game, but not ones that immediately end in marriage. I'd prefer that the S-supports end with a confession of love, with the couple being referred to as boyfriend/girlfriend or bf/bf or gf/gf while playing the game. Any marriage could occur in the epilogues, similar to how it was in the GBA games. Seconding the options for a same sex pairing outside of Byleth.

As for how to handle Byleth and a romantic relationship with one of his/her students, I'd like the idea of any support with them to end on a promise to try a relationship after the student graduates. I'm not sure how this is going to be handled, but that would be my preference.

[Adrestian Scum]

Well S supports could work in Three Houses

[Kiran_]

2 hours ago, Shrimperor said:

Last i checked, Nobles hold much much more Power over a Mercenary then a Teacher over his Students. They could get him beheaded any second.

 

I am slowly starting to think America is more weird the japan tbh.

 

Honestly, People need to learn to seperate Reality and Fiction.

Uhhh ... I didn't say I agreed. I was just noting it's a part of society. Why cherry-pick literal lines? There is a power imbalance. I didn't say it was good or bad, just that it exists in a very basic context.

America is VERY weird. And yes, we should totally always separate reality and fiction. That's why it's totally okay to have incest and pedophilia because it's fiction. /sarcasm

In this context yes, I don't see an issue with a teacher being able to marry their students, because they're all around the same age, and he's a mercenary instructor and they're nobles. But in a general context, teachers > students and boss > workers is a power imbalance. Or as you're trying to say, nobles > mercenaries. So still a power imbalance. Clearly there are things that can change this dynamic, but in a generalized sense, that's a power imbalance. Just because something exists doesn't inherently make it right or wrong.

Edited February 17, 2019 by Kiran_

[Jave]

2 hours ago, EJ107 said:

I really hope that romantic S-supports return to some degree, and that they expand on the same-sex options. I feel like it's reached the point now where there are so many characters and potential relationships in the series that LGBT characters and relationships are massively underrepresented, even if you're ignoring that it's a fantasy setting and looking solely at "real life" demographics. 

The whole idea of being able to marry almost every unit of the opposite sex and produce time travelling babies is already so ridiculous that they may as well just remove gender restrictions completely if they are going to keep doing it. If they are going to go full fanservice again like in fates, why not go all the way? It's already done to a lesser degree in Heroes, where a lot of units flirt with the summoner, whose gender is ambiguous, to some extent. 

My main desire though, is to see at least one same sex pairing that doesn't include Byleth. Is it really too much to ask to have two characters in the roster who happen to be gay or bi and like each other? There are plenty of same-sex pairings in Fates and Awakening that would have made a lot more sense and been a lot more compatible than many of the forced S-supports between the male and female units. 

I've said this before elsewhere, but if a super popular indie game named Stardew Valley can have 10 potential love interests, five guys and five girls, and make of all them bisexual, I don't see why Fire Emblem can't do something similar. If they're keeping the matchmaking aspect, might as well expand the options as much as they can.

And yeah, having some same-gender pairings that don't involve the avatar would be nice. The closest we got before was Ike with Soren/Ranulf (and I liked how it was left open for interpretation), but not really much after that.

[MagicCanonBalls]

10 minutes ago, Jave said:

I've said this before elsewhere, but if a super popular indie game named Stardew Valley can have 10 potential love interests, five guys and five girls, and make of all them bisexual, I don't see why Fire Emblem can't do something similar. If they're keeping the matchmaking aspect, might as well expand the options as much as they can.

And yeah, having some same-gender pairings that don't involve the avatar would be nice. The closest we got before was Ike with Soren/Ranulf (and I liked how it was left open for interpretation), but not really much after that.

The problem with non-indie game is the other portion of fans who are slight homophobic. Look at Dragon Age 2, they made most of your companion bi and it was a meme/criticism of the game. The comments get really ugly and I hope that doesn't happens to FE community.

[Othin]

22 minutes ago, MagicCanonBalls said:

The problem with non-indie game is the other portion of fans who are slight homophobic. Look at Dragon Age 2, they made most of your companion bi and it was a meme/criticism of the game. The comments get really ugly and I hope that doesn't happens to FE community.

That's those fans' own problem, it's not a reason to include fewer queer characters. Better to have some homophobes throwing tantrums than to avoid making queer characters just to pander to homophobes.

At least, it's not a good reason. Unfortunately, lots of companies think otherwise.

[kratoscar2008]

I kinda read the thread on a rush so i will just say a few points.

-I dont think you people realize that the LGBT aspects of Fates were largely done in order to appeal a certain fanbase in japan, namely the otomoe and fujoshi fanbase. If i remember well Niel's VA is a rather popular VA in such fanbases and Rahtja well her expy lend itself well for the test. So expecting them to properly portray them is kind of naive, their characterization will be meant to appeal to such fanbases (For instance many boy love or otome VNs usually have rather sadistic overtones that seems to appeal to such fanbases hence another reason Why Niles was made especifically for them). The fact that the artist is a rather well known one for that fanbase is quite telling.

-While i understand the whole power difference that an student/teacher relationship entails i dont think it will be an issue because in Japan its a rather popular anime/VN trope, not to mention im sure they wont really ever give you say a choice to use your position for your benefit, at most there will likely be a character or 2 trying to get into a relationship with Byleth for their benefit (Basically another Charlotte). In Japan is not so serious and i doubt they really will let western values get in the way for them to appeal to their japanese fanbase. But the best scenario would probably find a way to appeal to both demographics.

-Why do people say that Soleil was a lesbian? I mean she doesnt S support with any female and her avatar support is her getting comfortable (Not that she feels bad around them, just that she gets flustered around them) being around cute girls not about changing her (Allegedly) lesbian preference. Its more of her finding girls cute rather than feeling sexual atraction towards them. Kind of remind me people thinking that Naoto from Persona 4 was trans rather than just she wanting to challenge gender stereopypes.

-I doubt, a  lot, that they will either limit the avatars support in any way or that only students will support with each other. Also they will never have exclusively lesbian or gay characters, just imagine the complains of the japanese fanbase knowing they cant have an heterosexual relationship with any of those characters, sure its good to want inclusion but not at the expense of the majority of the fanbase (In this case forcing heterosexual players to engage in same sex relationships) because you never know what character could get a huge following (Like say Tharja or Cordelia whose popularity kind of came out of nowhere) and that could blow on their face. So bisexual and avatar romanceable is still the optimal choice.

-I like the children mechanic but i can live witouth them, but in the case of they returning and lgbt relationships being a thing i disagree with having children exclusive characters from the same sex relationship, again forcing heterosexual players to play homosexual would be troublesome.

In all its a tricky way to do this but its kind of naive to think the avatar will in any way be limited in any way given how the series operates now.

[Florete]

8 minutes ago, kratoscar2008 said:

-I dont think you people realize that the LGBT aspects of Fates were largely done in order to appeal a certain fanbase in japan, namely the otomoe and fujoshi fanbase. If i remember well Niel's VA is a rather popular VA in such fanbases and Rahtja well her expy lend itself well for the test. So expecting them to properly portray them is kind of naive, their characterization will be meant to appeal to such fanbases (For instance many boy love or otome VNs usually have rather sadistic overtones that seems to appeal to such fanbases hence another reason Why Niles was made especifically for them). The fact that the artist is a rather well known one for that fanbase is quite telling.

The solution here is just to have multiple, varied options. A character like Niles isn't necessarily bad representation, the bigger problem is that he was the only representation for LGBT men in Fates. Men like him certainly exist, and representing them isn't inherently a problem, but when he's the only one it just reinforces stereotypes. Have a Niles and have a couple others who are different and things look a lot better.

11 minutes ago, kratoscar2008 said:

-I doubt, a  lot, that they will either limit the avatars support in any way or that only students will support with each other. Also they will never have exclusively lesbian or gay characters, just imagine the complains of the japanese fanbase knowing they cant have an heterosexual relationship with any of those characters, sure its good to want inclusion but not at the expense of the majority of the fanbase (In this case forcing heterosexual players to engage in same sex relationships) because you never know what character could get a huge following (Like say Tharja or Cordelia whose popularity kind of came out of nowhere) and that could blow on their face. So bisexual and avatar romanceable is still the optimal choice.

Unfortunately, I could see this being their reason for such a decision, even though I think it's ridiculous to believe that fans would react in such a way to a degree that it would actually have negative financial results.

However, one gay character wouldn't force any heterosexual players to do same sex marriage.

[kratoscar2008]

13 minutes ago, Florete said:

The solution here is just to have multiple, varied options. A character like Niles isn't necessarily bad representation, the bigger problem is that he was the only representation for LGBT men in Fates. Men like him certainly exist, and representing them isn't inherently a problem, but when he's the only one it just reinforces stereotypes. Have a Niles and have a couple others who are different and things look a lot better.

Unfortunately, I could see this being their reason for such a decision, even though I think it's ridiculous to believe that fans would react in such a way to a degree that it would actually have negative financial results.

However, one gay character wouldn't force any heterosexual players to do same sex marriage.

Problem is that those will also be stereotypes popular of such userbase, sure they could surprise us with well written ones but its good to keep in mind to who those characters are aimed towards and adjust expectations.

Well i was meaning more in the sense of having a gay character who cant support with avatar and even then maybe female otome players could complain why they cant romance say gay character.  And i dont know much about the fanbase but otakus (A good portion of such fanbase most likely) are known to be quite vicious. Didnt the fanbase trow a tamtrum when IS forced canon pairings in Genealogy? I remember reading about that in GFs.