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Supports in Three Houses


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3 hours ago, kratoscar2008 said:

Well i was meaning more in the sense of having a gay character who cant support with avatar and even then maybe female otome players could complain why they cant romance say gay character.  And i dont know much about the fanbase but otakus (A good portion of such fanbase most likely) are known to be quite vicious. Didnt the fanbase trow a tamtrum when IS forced canon pairings in Genealogy? I remember reading about that in GFs.

Oh, those fans definitely exist and will complain. There are always people who complain when things don't go exactly their way, I'm just saying it won't be any worse than what literally any other aspect of the game could get. Those will be the fans who get made fun of by the rest of the fanbase for complaining about something so inconsequential.

Edited by Florete
Ugh dumb typos
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7 hours ago, Shrimperor said:

Professors in real life are 30+ year older then their students.

Haha, what? Have you been to college? Half of my professors were only a few years older than me, and the other half was still in his twenties or thirties. Only like two or three were like sixty. And there's also the fact that there were students that were in their thirties or fourties. But even in highschool the teachers are not commonly so old in comparison to the students. The difference in age tends to be 15-20 years.

5 hours ago, SimplyUnknown said:

Seconding the options for a same sex pairing outside of Byleth.

This! this! this, please! :lol:

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6 hours ago, kratoscar2008 said:

I kinda read the thread on a rush so i will just say a few points.

-I dont think you people realize that the LGBT aspects of Fates were largely done in order to appeal a certain fanbase in japan, namely the otomoe and fujoshi fanbase. If i remember well Niel's VA is a rather popular VA in such fanbases and Rahtja well her expy lend itself well for the test. So expecting them to properly portray them is kind of naive, their characterization will be meant to appeal to such fanbases (For instance many boy love or otome VNs usually have rather sadistic overtones that seems to appeal to such fanbases hence another reason Why Niles was made especifically for them). The fact that the artist is a rather well known one for that fanbase is quite telling.

The issue here is assuming that they can't please both crowds at once, or that Japan is incapable of making good LGBT characters, which just isn't true. I've seen plenty of anime, manga and games from Japan that had good, relateable LGBT characters and relationships, even some that were at least partially aimed at fans of that genre. And even if they want to appeal specifically to that group of fans, there's nothing stopping them just adding two same sex couples or options and catering to both groups. 

6 hours ago, kratoscar2008 said:

-I like the children mechanic but i can live witouth them, but in the case of they returning and lgbt relationships being a thing i disagree with having children exclusive characters from the same sex relationship, again forcing heterosexual players to play homosexual would be troublesome.

I don't see how it would be any different to forcing people to pick a straight pairing for their MU if they want all the child units in Conquest. And that's something they already did. Besides, it wouldn't be forcing anyone to "play homosexual" if you could get the children through pairing up two other units, which is already the majority of the matchmaking mechanic.

7 hours ago, MagicCanonBalls said:

The problem with non-indie game is the other portion of fans who are slight homophobic. Look at Dragon Age 2, they made most of your companion bi and it was a meme/criticism of the game. The comments get really ugly and I hope that doesn't happens to FE community.

But Fire Emblem is already a series that panders to very niche minority groups despite community backlash. Are the memes/criticisms about the paedophilic undertones of Nowi and Elise, the teacher-student relationships that may be happening in three houses or the incest in fates really better than memes or augments about a large number of the characters being bisexual? And incest/paedophilia/teacher-student relationships are a lot more off-putting to people in general than same sex relationships nowadays. 

The big kicker is that there are a lot more people playing fire emblem who either enjoy same sex relationships in media or are LGBT themselves than people who are into loli's or some of the other small groups the game already panders to. So why not try to appeal to that larger group as well? 

 

image.gif

Edited by EJ107
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3 hours ago, Chopper... said:

Haha, what? Have you been to college? Half of my professors were only a few years older than me, and the other half was still in his twenties or thirties.

I am an university student myself. Most of the Professors are pretty much 20-30 years olders then me or my fellow students. The ones who are only a few years olders then me are usually Professor-assistants and/or those wanting to get PhD. They are not institute leaders themselves.

Edited by Shrimperor
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2 hours ago, EJ107 said:

But Fire Emblem is already a series that panders to very niche minority groups despite community backlash. Are the memes/criticisms about the paedophilic undertones of Nowi and Elise, the teacher-student relationships that may be happening in three houses or the incest in fates really better than memes or augments about a large number of the characters being bisexual? And incest/paedophilia/teacher-student relationships are a lot more off-putting to people in general than same sex relationships nowadays. 

The big kicker is that there are a lot more people playing fire emblem who either enjoy same sex relationships in media or are LGBT themselves than people who are into loli's or some of the other small groups the game already panders to. So why not try to appeal to that larger group as well? 

I want IS to have more same sex support as well.I am just not optimistic about what would happen if they did. I just don't think that a Japanese company like Nintendo would make game where maybe 50% of characters in your house are bi or gay without receiving some unwanted attention from non-fe fans that just wanna bash LGBT in games. As for the pedophile/incest criticism, those are legitimate ones that needed to be said so that it doesn't happens again. However one big backlash against big cast of LGBT characters might scare them and other big time game developers from doing something like that again. As for teacher-student relationship, I don't think that's so bad, especially based on the latest trailer where Byleth seems to be same age as most of the students. I never get the power imbalance argument from the comments here, because that is probably not gonna come up in a game like FE. At most it's gonna be like : C-support: teach a student who comes to Byleth about a subject he/she is weak at. B-support: She keeps failing and Byleth found a unique way of teaching to make her success. A-support: She did very well in the most recent test and becomes thankful to Byleth. S-Support: The student confess and Byleth was reluctant but eventually confess to have the same feeling as well. End scene.

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3 hours ago, Shrimperor said:

I am an university student myself. Most of the Professors are pretty much 20-30 years olders then me or my fellow students. The ones who are only a few years olders then me are usually Professor-assistants and/or those wanting to get PhD. They are not institute leaders themselves.

Then, I guess it's a matter of radically different experiences.

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8 hours ago, EJ107 said:

The issue here is assuming that they can't please both crowds at once, or that Japan is incapable of making good LGBT characters, which just isn't true. I've seen plenty of anime, manga and games from Japan that had good, relateable LGBT characters and relationships, even some that were at least partially aimed at fans of that genre. And even if they want to appeal specifically to that group of fans, there's nothing stopping them just adding two same sex couples or options and catering to both groups. 

I don't see how it would be any different to forcing people to pick a straight pairing for their MU if they want all the child units in Conquest. And that's something they already did. Besides, it wouldn't be forcing anyone to "play homosexual" if you could get the children through pairing up two other units, which is already the majority of the matchmaking mechanic.

But Fire Emblem is already a series that panders to very niche minority groups despite community backlash. Are the memes/criticisms about the paedophilic undertones of Nowi and Elise, the teacher-student relationships that may be happening in three houses or the incest in fates really better than memes or augments about a large number of the characters being bisexual? And incest/paedophilia/teacher-student relationships are a lot more off-putting to people in general than same sex relationships nowadays. 

The big kicker is that there are a lot more people playing fire emblem who either enjoy same sex relationships in media or are LGBT themselves than people who are into loli's or some of the other small groups the game already panders to. So why not try to appeal to that larger group as well? 

 

image.gif

I did say that they could be well written, im just saying that the way IS writing works and given they would put only one or two they are likely to default to archetypes that market likes. Also a gay character done right varies with people, just see in this thread how some used Leon as a good example while others used him as a prime example of bad representation so i dont think there is any objective metric of how to do them well.

Also wether you like it or not straight people makes up the majority of the fanbase so trying to force them to do same sex relationships to get in this case an specific character could easily lead to some kind of backlash which could deter Nintendo from adding such options. Much of the animosity of people to let such options in games is the lgbt comunity wanting to force it, sure many would say "Thats their problem" but you know that these companies would rather side with the side that generates the most revenue and the fact that the japanese arent really in any rush to push for gender equality so its better to celebrate the small victories that have been earned.

 

5 hours ago, RexBolt said:

@kratoscar2008 when people talk about Soleil's support's like that it's about the japanese ones. The translators tried to damage control her character a lot but there's still awful supports with her where she sexually harasses people.

I mean the japanese one, i remember reading about it and it never specifically implied Soleil has an actual sexual inclination towards girls but rather she finding them cute. After all still she is only able to S support with males.

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Wait...a lot of stuff here revealed.  How would same sex relationship be needed for a specific character?  They can't have children.  If this game has child units that probably makes it harder to have gay representation, though bi is okay, cause people wouldn't want to be prevented from passing on certain skills/etc.  

It all makes sense now why the gay characters seem such poor representations of gay people.  It is catering to the yaoi fanbase, which is vast majority straight women.  I assume the lesbian characters are catering to straight men who find girl/girl hot.   So these 'gay' characters are actually catering to heterosexual people. 

In terms of amount of characters, homosexuals are 3% of the population so that would mean 1 or 2 characters per game which they seem to have done recently (or more).  So they aren't really under representing just the representatives given are poor.  

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51 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Wait...a lot of stuff here revealed.  How would same sex relationship be needed for a specific character?  They can't have children.  If this game has child units that probably makes it harder to have gay representation, though bi is okay, cause people wouldn't want to be prevented from passing on certain skills/etc.  

It all makes sense now why the gay characters seem such poor representations of gay people.  It is catering to the yaoi fanbase, which is vast majority straight women.  I assume the lesbian characters are catering to straight men who find girl/girl hot.   So these 'gay' characters are actually catering to heterosexual people. 

In terms of amount of characters, homosexuals are 3% of the population so that would mean 1 or 2 characters per game which they seem to have done recently (or more).  So they aren't really under representing just the representatives given are poor.  

I'm assuming when you say population you mean the entire world. According to Google, there are 7.53 billion people on the planet. 3% of that is 225,900,000. That means 225.9 million people are homosexual. That's a lot of people. "But this a fantasy world! Real life things don't apply here!" You're right. So, in this fantasy world, the population of homosexuals could be 10x the number of homosexuals we have today. I'm not asking for things to be realistic in this game, I just want at least one character that is like me in this game. I don't care if they're fantastic or if there writing is as bad as Fates, I just someone like me.

15 hours ago, kratoscar2008 said:

-I doubt, a  lot, that they will either limit the avatars support in any way or that only students will support with each other. Also they will never have exclusively lesbian or gay characters, just imagine the complains of the japanese fanbase knowing they cant have an heterosexual relationship with any of those characters, sure its good to want inclusion but not at the expense of the majority of the fanbase (In this case forcing heterosexual players to engage in same sex relationships) because you never know what character could get a huge following (Like say Tharja or Cordelia whose popularity kind of came out of nowhere) and that could blow on their face. So bisexual and avatar romanceable is still the optimal choice.

-I like the children mechanic but i can live witouth them, but in the case of they returning and lgbt relationships being a thing i disagree with having children exclusive characters from the same sex relationship, again forcing heterosexual players to play homosexual would be troublesome.

In all its a tricky way to do this but its kind of naive to think the avatar will in any way be limited in any way given how the series operates now.

So, according to this, me, a homosexual player "play straight" if there are no LGBT+ characters and that is okay? But it's not okay to make heterosexual players "play gay" due to having LGBT+ characters? Not to sound like more of an asshole than I already am but that seems unfair. Neither of us are being forced to "play straight" or "play gay", we're not forced to do anything. No one is going to be holding a gun to your head and say "I'll pull the trigger unless you marry Niles in Conquest", just how no one forced me to marry Chrom with Maribelle in Awakening for my first play-through. No one is forcing anyone to "play gay" here. All I see are people who want them/friends/family/loved ones to be represented in this game in some way, shape, or form. I'm not trying to diss on you or anything but I just want you to understand that nobody here is forcing anyone here to "play gay". Having a LGBT+ character in a game does not mean you are forced to like or even use said character. All I ask is that I get a character is at least a little bit like me in the sense that they are homosexual.

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1 hour ago, Lewyn said:

They can't have children.

Why do people like to act like adopting or surrogates aren’t a real thing?

No one should have to explain why comparing real world statistics (whose results are unreliable btw) is a good reason to exclude a group of people in a fictional world but here we are anyways.

2 hours ago, kratoscar2008 said:

I mean the japanese one, i remember reading about it and it never specifically implied Soleil has an actual sexual inclination towards girls but rather she finding them cute. After all still she is only able to S support with males.

Quote
  1. FOLEO: Soleil...
  2.  
  3. SOLEIL: What's wrong, Foleo? You, like, never come looking for me like this.
  4.  
  5. FOLEO: ... Um, er... Soleil, you do like girls, is that right?
  6.  
  7. SOLEIL: Ahaha. Do you really need to ask after all this time? Of course I do! I love cute girls!
  8.  
  9. FOLEO: Then are boys unacceptable? As, um... romantic partners...?
  10.  
  11. SOLEIL: I wouldn't say unacceptable, but girls are preferable by far. I mean, like, boys don't have any beauty, right? Looking at them doesn't get me all fired up.

Foleo’s and Soleil’s S support explicitly states she is attracted to girls so please do some research before spreading misinformation as truth.

2 hours ago, kratoscar2008 said:

Also a gay character done right varies with people, just see in this thread how some used Leon as a good example while others used him as a prime example of bad representation so i dont think there is any objective metric of how to do them well.

It’s true that there is no objectively good way of making a good gay character but the answer is not to get rid of them altogether.

That’s why multiple varied gay characters should exist in the series instead of just one that makes it seem like gay people only act a certain way. Campy gay people like Leon do exist. So do people like Niles. LGBT+ people come in all shapes and sizes to put it simply. Having them represented isn’t bad it’s just when they’re the only representation that it gets questionable. So basically everything that @Florete already told you last page.

Edited by NegativeExponents-
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9 minutes ago, NegativeExponents- said:

Why do people like to act like adopting or surrogates aren’t a real thing?

No one should have to explain why comparing real world statistics (whose results are unreliable btw) is a good reason to exclude a group of people in a fictional world but here we are anyways.

 

Sure, but the way these marry and have kids are, the parents pass on their genes (stats, skills, physical traits).  Two males can't pass on their genes to one child, nor can two females.  I just used real world stats to show they aren't underrepresented.  That doesn't mean they can't have more representation than that, but I think much more important is having good representation.  The other part of my comment is the gay characters in Fire Emblem have not been created for homosexuals but for straight people which is why they are so badly designed.

 

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2 hours ago, Lewyn said:

In terms of amount of characters, homosexuals are 3% of the population so that would mean 1 or 2 characters per game which they seem to have done recently (or more).  So they aren't really under representing just the representatives given are poor.  

I'm skeptical of that statistic. I've heard all sorts of numbers of gay or otherwise queer people (who says "homosexuals" anymore, anyway?), most of them much higher than 3%. Bear in mind that it tends to be considerably underreported.

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2 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Sure, but the way these marry and have kids are, the parents pass on their genes (stats, skills, physical traits).  Two males can't pass on their genes to one child, nor can two females.

Surrogate/Donor solution covers the genetic aspect. It would just have to change a bit to be the genes of one of the partners and whoever the surrogate/donor is.

Adoption is still possible though. All of that could simply be explained as this being a case of nurture over nature. None of that necessarily needs to be genetically passed down it could just be learned. The only thing that can’t be learned is physical traits but that part went out the window since it’s introduction considering kids always look the same regardless of who the variable parent is.

11 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

That doesn't mean they can't have more representation than that, but I think much more important is having good representation.

The problem with that is that there never will be a unanimous agreement on what is good representation. What some consider good others will consider bad. It’s unrealistic to expect one character be a one-size-fits-all solution because it is straight up impossible.

14 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

The other part of my comment is the gay characters in Fire Emblem have not been created for homosexuals but for straight people which is why they are so badly designed.

Don’t state it like it’s fact unless you got prove. Regardless I do sometimes feel like that is indeed the case.

I can’t really argue with this one and anything I got to say kinda overlaps with the “some think it’s good, others don’t” argument but there’s no reason you can’t cater to both.

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6 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Sure, but the way these marry and have kids are, the parents pass on their genes (stats, skills, physical traits).  Two males can't pass on their genes to one child, nor can two females.  I just used real world stats to show they aren't underrepresented.  That doesn't mean they can't have more representation than that, but I think much more important is having good representation.  The other part of my comment is the gay characters in Fire Emblem have not been created for homosexuals but for straight people which is why they are so badly designed.

 

Fire Emblem is not, and has never been, an accurate representation of genetics. If I'm really good at stabbing people with a sword and have kids, my kids aren't going to automatically inherit that skill from me. Stats and skills don't exist in real life. If a children mechanic exists in some future fire emblem game, there's no reason why gay characters couldn't adopt a kid together and pass down their skills to their kid via training them.  

And more representation generally means better representation, because gay people have a variety of personalities and lived experiences, just like everyone else. Having more gay characters would prevent them from inadvertently pigeonholing us into one personality type.

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29 minutes ago, NegativeExponents- said:

Why do people like to act like adopting or surrogates aren’t a real thing?

No one should have to explain why comparing real world statistics (whose results are unreliable btw) is a good reason to exclude a group of people in a fictional world but here we are anyways.

I think a good way to implement this would be that if two characters of the same gender marry, instead of getting the child they would get through birth, they adopt a child that's somewhat similar gameplay wise to the birth child, but different enough to be their own character. Sort of like the FE4 Gen 2 characters you get if you fail to marry the Gen 1 parents. The adopted child could still get the parents' skills, except story wise it's explained that it's done through teachings rather than genes.

Heck, they could even do stuff like support convos between the parent and the child where the child asks why can't they learn their parents' skills, followed by the parent revealing that they are adopted. THAT would be an interesting way to do supports.

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13 minutes ago, Jave said:

I think a good way to implement this would be that if two characters of the same gender marry, instead of getting the child they would get through birth, they adopt a child that's somewhat similar gameplay wise to the birth child, but different enough to be their own character. Sort of like the FE4 Gen 2 characters you get if you fail to marry the Gen 1 parents. The adopted child could still get the parents' skills, except story wise it's explained that it's done through teachings rather than genes.

Heck, they could even do stuff like support convos between the parent and the child where the child asks why can't they learn their parents' skills, followed by the parent revealing that they are adopted. THAT would be an interesting way to do supports.

You mean the substitute children? Yeah I’ve always preferred that idea honestly and don’t know why IS didn’t implement them in Fates where something like that was very much needed. Oh well, if children ever come back then I hope they fix that.

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At the end of the day Fire Emblem is a series with magic. If they can have kids time travel or age up in an alternate dimension they can let same sex couples have a magical baby. Even if they are only going the adoption route, its pretty easy to justify them inheriting their parents stat growths as something they learnt from their parents.

I'd rather Three Houses just doesn't have children characters though, since I'm not fond of how they were handled in fates and it opens up more options for how characters relationships, romantic or, can pan out. 

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27 minutes ago, EJ107 said:

At the end of the day Fire Emblem is a series with magic. If they can have kids time travel or age up in an alternate dimension they can let same sex couples have a magical baby. Even if they are only going the adoption route, its pretty easy to justify them inheriting their parents stat growths as something they learnt from their parents.

I'd rather Three Houses just doesn't have children characters though, since I'm not fond of how they were handled in fates and it opens up more options for how characters relationships, romantic or, can pan out. 

Well said on both counts.

"Every M/F pair has a line of supports where they chat three times about one thing and then abruptly get married at S rank" got grating as early as Awakening. I'm down with paired endings, but we don't need more mid-story marriage.

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1 hour ago, Othin said:

I'm skeptical of that statistic. I've heard all sorts of numbers of gay or otherwise queer people (who says "homosexuals" anymore, anyway?), most of them much higher than 3%. Bear in mind that it tends to be considerably underreported.

I  understand, but since IS is accused of underrepresenting gays that is the only reason I put that stat.  Along with someone who was suggesting 50% of the cast should be gay/bi.  

I think if they do children, and I am firmly in the camp that they don't do it unless it is like Genealogy where the story takes place over multiple generation, then adoption/training is another system they would have to add just for children of a gay parent which I can't see them doing.  In FE4 they did it, cause if you don't pair these units up and you don't get substitutes well you would have very few characters to use.  Again if they go the FE4 route then I can see them doing substitute characters, but Awakening/Fates style don't see them putting in the work for that.

Also not all S ranks have to be fall in love, some could be become lifelong friends.

36 minutes ago, EJ107 said:

At the end of the day Fire Emblem is a series with magic. If they can have kids time travel or age up in an alternate dimension they can let same sex couples have a magical baby. Even if they are only going the adoption route, its pretty easy to justify them inheriting their parents stat growths as something they learnt from their parents.

I'd rather Three Houses just doesn't have children characters though, since I'm not fond of how they were handled in fates and it opens up more options for how characters relationships, romantic or, can pan out. 

In this world of magic, why is it that there is very little racial diversity?  This is something that is hardly ever mentioned however 99% of characters are caucasian or East asian (Oriental) so what about African, Native American, Arabic, South Asian, etc?  If looking at the world population they are horribly underrepresented.  Also would it be that offensive to have a few characters from these other races?

1 hour ago, NegativeExponents- said:

 

Don’t state it like it’s fact unless you got prove. Regardless I do sometimes feel like that is indeed the case.

I can’t really argue with this one and anything I got to say kinda overlaps with the “some think it’s good, others don’t” argument but there’s no reason you can’t cater to both.

I am saying that from the one person who said that the gay characters fit yaoi stereotypes and provided example with Niles being a common trope 'sadistic' character.  I mean all the gay characters are very effeminate pretty boys with flowing hair, that seems to be much more fitting of what girls into yaoi like than what homosexual males like (though some like that too). The artist chosen for Three Houses is a yaoi artist, and look at the sample art given in the thread devoted to her. 

Meaning it seems the target audience seems to be getting what I figure must be a pretty large group of heterosexual women who are yaoi fans rather than providing representation for homosexuals.  Like why not have a character that doesn't look like it comes straight from one of those yaoi comics and looks like a stereotype, why not have just what seems to be a character like any other happen to be gay or bi or whatever.  Honestly those gay stereotypes do way more harm than good.  They are more offputting to people uncomfortable with it, and they also put an image hey this is how gays are...they are all like this and stand out from everyone else.  

 

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36 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

In this world of magic, why is it that there is very little racial diversity?  This is something that is hardly ever mentioned however 99% of characters are caucasian or East asian (Oriental) so what about African, Native American, Arabic, South Asian, etc?  If looking at the world population they are horribly underrepresented.  Also would it be that offensive to have a few characters from these other races?

Your assumption. We know as a fact that japanese and whites are drawn whit the exact same features, wich does not really reflect how they are in the real world (unless i missed all those blue haired white guys). If eastern asians and whites looks the same, why you are assuming that any other etnicity would look different. If it's safe to assume that the people that live in castles and use longswords are intended to be europeans, then it's also safe to assume that nomad horse archers are intended to be scytians for example.

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3 hours ago, Lewyn said:

In this world of magic, why is it that there is very little racial diversity?  This is something that is hardly ever mentioned however 99% of characters are caucasian or East asian (Oriental) so what about African, Native American, Arabic, South Asian, etc?  If looking at the world population they are horribly underrepresented.  Also would it be that offensive to have a few characters from these other races?

No one has said anything against having racial diversity so I don’t know where you get this idea that we find it offensive or don’t care about that!

Don’t change the argument. We didn’t talk race because this was never about race to begin with. It is unfortunate that there is little racial diversity and it’s true that FE needs to do better in that department too but don’t do a “these people have it worse so you’re concerns and worries aren’t worth addressing” crap.

3 hours ago, Lewyn said:

I am saying that from the one person who said that the gay characters fit yaoi stereotypes and provided example with Niles being a common trope 'sadistic' character.  I mean all the gay characters are very effeminate pretty boys with flowing hair, that seems to be much more fitting of what girls into yaoi like than what homosexual males like (though some like that too). The artist chosen for Three Houses is a yaoi artist, and look at the sample art given in the thread devoted to her. 

Ok first off, this may be news to you but gay people don’t all share the same taste and there’s lots of diversity in our likes and dislikes. Yes, I know what Kurahana is. I started that thread devoted to her. And what you may notice is that not everyone she drew despite being a yaoi artist had long hair or were effeminate pretty boys. You can even tell in her 3 Houses design that not everyone is like that. It’s almost like even among yaoi fans they share different tastes too.

You are just generalizing people and assuming what it is they like and don’t like without even having a goddam clue yourself.

As for stereotypes, this isn’t exclusive to Niles or Leon. Just about anyone in Fates could be gay stereotype if they were, well, gay. All the anime tropes have been done to death in yaoi. Make Takumi gay? Ah, the common hot-headed tsundere gay stereotype. Benny? Ah, the scary big guy who is actually quite gentle and gay stereotype. Owain/Odin? Ah, the crazy charismatic ridiculous clown gay. Inigo? The lecherous gay that just won’t stop flirting with every guy. Jakob? The butler gay who is more than just devoted to their master. Silas? The childhood best friend gay that has secretly always loved the MC.

The argument doesn’t hold when stereotypes are everywhere regardless of whether they are gay or not. It’s too broad of a requirement to fulfill. If you can think of it, it’s probably been done before. EDIT 2: (This felt a bit unfinished) What matters is not whether the character is a stereotype or not but how the character is portrayed and treated in the story. Is it negative? Positive? Neutral? Was it off putting and offensive? Or maybe it the qualities felt tacked on like “they only act this way because they are gay” ? Or was it natural and treated as “they act this way because that’s who they not because of their sexuality” ? One reason I like Niles and Leon is because not once was their personality traits or appearance ever treated as just being there because that’s how gay people are which is a very common thing across media.

EDIT: What I’m trying to say is that it all comes back to if they weren’t the only ones in the game, it wouldn’t push this view point that gay people (or any other non straight-person for that matter) only act and behave a certain way.

Edited by NegativeExponents-
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4 hours ago, EJ107 said:

At the end of the day Fire Emblem is a series with magic. If they can have kids time travel or age up in an alternate dimension they can let same sex couples have a magical baby. Even if they are only going the adoption route, its pretty easy to justify them inheriting their parents stat growths as something they learnt from their parents.

I'd rather Three Houses just doesn't have children characters though, since I'm not fond of how they were handled in fates and it opens up more options for how characters relationships, romantic or, can pan out. 

This. Honestly, Fates' method of having kids was already more bonkers than magic babies would be. They'll make up a reason for a child to be born and grow to adult hood instantaneously, but kids between same-sex couples? Well, that just doesn't make sense!

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3 hours ago, Flere210 said:

Your assumption. We know as a fact that japanese and whites are drawn whit the exact same features, wich does not really reflect how they are in the real world (unless i missed all those blue haired white guys). If eastern asians and whites looks the same, why you are assuming that any other etnicity would look different. If it's safe to assume that the people that live in castles and use longswords are intended to be europeans, then it's also safe to assume that nomad horse archers are intended to be scytians for example.

I'm sorry, it's not an assumption. If there were other races they WOULD look different. Magic world or not, there's such thing as different SHADES of humans. So asking for diversity means literally just varying shades of characters and not everyone being the same color as a stark white wall. They should look different it's just a fact. FE does need racial diversity, it doesn't have to be "this character is clearly black" but just having varying shades of darker colors would be nice.

9 hours ago, Lewyn said:

In terms of amount of characters, homosexuals are 3% of the population so that would mean 1 or 2 characters per game which they seem to have done recently (or more).  So they aren't really under representing just the representatives given are poor.  

This is so false it hurts. Among later studies, when you interview people ages 30+ they represent around 3-4% of the population. But when you study the younger generation (who grew up extremely more open to it) the number jumps to around 6-7%, meaning the number is probably even higher when you account for homophobia and the fact that not everyone feels comfortable being outed on a survey. So no, they could stand to have 3-4 characters at least. They are underrepresented.

7 hours ago, Lewyn said:

Sure, but the way these marry and have kids are, the parents pass on their genes (stats, skills, physical traits).  Two males can't pass on their genes to one child, nor can two females.

I'm sorry, people can shoot fireballs out of their hands. To echo several other people here, two people of the same sex passing on their genes is the LEAST of your worries. Not to mention there are so many scientific advances allowing for gene combining of 3 people and the viability of two males or two females is something that is very theoretically possible and definitely experimented on in mice. I get that maybe you don't follow science like that as closely as I do (someone who it actually effects), but if you can suspend disbelief for time travel, magic and shapeshifting dragons, I would think maybe you'd be able to suspend disbelief for something that science is actually working on being able to do.

@NegativeExponents-, Thanks for everything you said, it's been amazing! =)

I think for the support system though, it would just be nice to have both MORE representation, because LGBT+ is underrepresented (but incest/pedophilia is most certainly not) and BETTER representation. And I don't think that's a crazy thing to ask for. The reason people suggest more of the cast being just bi, is simply because the best written LGBT+ characters is when they're just written as characters and not as a token. It harms you guys 0 to have a few (or more) bi options, and so we can get accurate, human depictions of people and relationships.

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2 hours ago, Kiran_ said:

I'm sorry, it's not an assumption. If there were other races they WOULD look different. Magic world or not, there's such thing as different SHADES of humans. So asking for diversity means literally just varying shades of characters and not everyone being the same color as a stark white wall. They should look different it's just a fact. FE does need racial diversity, it doesn't have to be "this character is clearly black" but just having varying shades of darker colors would be nice.

We've had precisely that though. The Feroxians were clearly mostly swarthy-skinned, and Plegians tended to have tanned skin as well. White's and Asians tend to look quite similar in a manga/anime format, unless you exaggerate features like the eyes and chin to a ridiculous degree. That said even earlier games make a decent attempt at making distinct cultures and racial features, like the Saceans.

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