More Female Enemies

[omegaxis1]

5 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

First, there is a dedicated topic for this, just so we don't deride this one.

Second, Falchion and the Book of Naga I don't think he is saying are equally powerful in lore. What he is saying is they serve the same role in gameplay- killing the final boss easily.

Third, yeah, Kaga is the founder of the Adamantly Adoring Arvis Absolutely Association, and the real father of Arvis himself of course. You could put him to the stake for that, although I'm sure he likes fire. I gotta admit Arvis being threatened with persecution makes little sense, people in the upper crust can get away with stigmas lower classes can not. Jerusalem during the Crusades had a Christian King who had leprosy- which was societal anathema to all but the saintly.

Fourth, I think he wants to leave some things closed, like Claud and Silvia's relation to each other, what Arvis is in the narrative (as much as you may, not without reason, disagree with him), but leave other things open, like Forseti-Lewyn. Some definitive narrative answers, some things remain for fan speculation and creativity. Not a bad idea I think.

Thank you. Didn't know about this thread. Will respond to your thing there. 

[Stroud]

3 hours ago, Hawkwing said:

As for bosses, I'm okay with fighting female leaders. It could be a good "show, don't tell" of how the societies of the world treat gender. As long as they don't contradict themselves in worldbuilding (such as having an extremely patriarchal nation have more than a few female generals), it should be an easy yet substantial change.

The Empire Edelgard hails from being a matriarchy, do they have the guts? (Don't know if its already out of question). But why not. And I mean with Edelgard being the future Emperor. Woman tend to have a strong positioning there. 

I also do not mind more female generals, I am also all in for depiction of strong woman. There is a reason why I like characters like Minerva, Sheena and Rinkah. Also depends on how they are included.

Edited February 19, 2019 by Stroud

[Emperor Hardin]

9 hours ago, Jingle Jangle said:

Not all the time, there are enemy valkyries, and maids. I was referring to the modern games

Maids and Strategists were designed as female first, so keep that in mind. Its part of the female only class deal.

Whats also interesting is Awakening had artwork for generic classes of both genders, outside of gender exclusive classes, yet only the male ones  got used in most cases.

14 hours ago, toxic1 said:

Is something amazing supposed to happen if there were generic more female mooks?

 

You're also missing the indifference choice.

I feel it adds more personality and flavor to the enemy, personally.

I'm noting your post here.

[Shadow Mir]

9 hours ago, Jingle Jangle said:

I mean in the sense after drawing another 25+ portraits then the designers have to put them common as enemies units. Sure the Awakening Swordmaster has a class portrait for both genders but how many times you remember the female one appearing in a map?

Only once (chapter 22). Well, if you include DLC, that'd be twice.

[Hanes]

11 hours ago, TheWill said:

But why not ugly-looking bandit women? I don't really see an issue with portraying a barbaric, ugly chick who slaughters others for a living.

Hmm I'm not sure why I said that tbh but like I suppose the leader of a bandit group would also be a hot chick, since you know brigands aren't the most equality loving freaks I believe they wouldn't like putting a woman on a position of power so they would probably only put a hot chick as a leader (Who was strong too obvs). Basically like someone else mentioned, in medieval times women didn't really go that far unless men promoted them, and they usually got promotions in society if they were a hot chick. For example imagine being the wife of a man that participates in something like "The royal council", that would by itself get you far.

I mean maybe some ugly chick gets too banditry power if they are an exception to the genetical rule of "Male, trained muscles > Female, trained muscles" and she really is super strong but there's no reason why she shouldn't strive to be beautiful either. To be atleast more respected?

Edited February 20, 2019 by Critical Sniper

[Jotari]

Thinking on this sone more, I'm actually okay with their being little to no female generics. I mean if you think about it, these are generics. The whole point of them is that they don't have an identity. When I look at them I should be able to imagine they're any kind of individual. It'd be like saying we need more blond hair generics. I'm not under the impression the enemy is fielding an army of clones that look identical. 5-10% of them could well be female. I think the best route to go would be to make the generics more generic looking like in the old days as someone pointed out. Or just have like a helmet covering their face. Either that or go crazy and give a unique artwork to every enemy in the game. Wouldn't actually be impossible if it used a similar method to making the avatar and just randomised features.

Edited February 20, 2019 by Jotari

[Tetragrammaton]

18 hours ago, Jotari said:

Thinking on this sone more, I'm actually okay with their being little to no female generics. I mean if you think about it, these are generics. The whole point of them is that they don't have an identity. When I look at them I should be able to imagine they're any kind of individual. It'd be like saying we need more blond hair generics. I'm not under the impression the enemy is fielding an army of clones that look identical. 5-10% of them could well be female. I think the best route to go would be to make the generics more generic looking like in the old days as someone pointed out. Or just have like a helmet covering their face. Either that or go crazy and give a unique artwork to every enemy in the game. Wouldn't actually be impossible if it used a similar method to making the avatar and just randomised features.

Should we also need more black generics since black people also demands more representatives in game?

[Interdimensional Observer]

17 hours ago, hanhnn said:

Should we also need more black generics since black people also demands more representatives in game?

All you'd have to do is edit a skin tone, easier even than making female generics.

[Emperor Hardin]

On 2/19/2019 at 8:52 PM, Jotari said:

Thinking on this sone more, I'm actually okay with their being little to no female generics. I mean if you think about it, these are generics. The whole point of them is that they don't have an identity. When I look at them I should be able to imagine they're any kind of individual. It'd be like saying we need more blond hair generics. I'm not under the impression the enemy is fielding an army of clones that look identical. 5-10% of them could well be female. I think the best route to go would be to make the generics more generic looking like in the old days as someone pointed out. Or just have like a helmet covering their face. Either that or go crazy and give a unique artwork to every enemy in the game. Wouldn't actually be impossible if it used a similar method to making the avatar and just randomised features.

Gonna to disagree there, even in full uniform there are obvious differences between male and female soldiers in FE.

Spoiler

See the female soldier artwork here, they drew female generics they just didn't use them.

[omegaxis1]

2 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Gonna to disagree there, even in full uniform there are obvious differences between male and female soldiers in FE.

  Hide contents

See the female soldier artwork here, they drew female generics they just didn't use them.

For that ONE scene in Awakening. XD

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Gonna to disagree there, even in full uniform there are obvious differences between male and female soldiers in FE.

  Hide contents

See the female soldier artwork here, they drew female generics they just didn't use them.

There can be if you choose to draw them that way. But making faceless gender ambiguous soldiers is more than possible too.

[Emperor Hardin]

11 minutes ago, Jotari said:

There can be if you choose to draw them that way. But making faceless gender ambiguous soldiers is more than possible too.

They don't do that though.

And again, while it makes some sense for some classes like Knight to be genderly ambiguous(real armor isn't made to distinguish between gender), others like myrmidon and mage should make the unit's appearance clear.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Emperor Hardin said:

They don't do that though.

They don't have a tonne of female enemies either though. Isn't that precisely what were talking about? What we think they should do?

1 hour ago, Emperor Hardin said:

And again, while it makes some sense for some classes like Knight to be genderly ambiguous(real armor isn't made to distinguish between gender), others like myrmidon and mage should make the unit's appearance clear.

Myrmidon I can agree with since they're designed to be light armour units. But Mages, not really. Look at the FE1 mage sprite.

[Emperor Hardin]

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

They don't have a tonne of female enemies either though. Isn't that precisely what were talking about? What we think they should do?

Myrmidon I can agree with since they're designed to be light armour units. But Mages, not really. Look at the FE1 mage sprite.

They don't design male and female armor the same in the series, most of the time, the female uniform is drastically different from the uniform worn by male members of the same class.

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

Myrmidon I can agree with since they're designed to be light armour units. But Mages, not really. Look at the FE1 mage sprite.

I have, its a pretty light outfit as you can see here.

[Jotari]

53 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

They don't design male and female armor the same in the series, most of the time, the female uniform is drastically different from the uniform worn by male members of the same class.

I have, its a pretty light outfit as you can see here.

Yeah, I'm saying they should just make ambiguous designs for the faceless characters.

It's a pretty light outfit, but do you think it looks inherently feminine or masculine? Would you be surprised if that unit was revealed to be female? I know Linde gets her own sprite (as player and boss characters should), but a cloaked figure wearing robes and a hood could be any gender.

[Emperor Hardin]

16 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Yeah, I'm saying they should just make ambiguous designs for the faceless characters.

It's a pretty light outfit, but do you think it looks inherently feminine or masculine? Would you be surprised if that unit was revealed to be female? I know Linde gets her own sprite (as player and boss characters should), but a cloaked figure wearing robes and a hood could be any gender.

They could, but they haven't done so and for many lightly armored classes it wouldn't be easy.

You can see much of the body in that outfit, only the head is covered with a pointy hat.

[Jotari]

20 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

They could, but they haven't done so and for many lightly armored classes it wouldn't be easy.

You can see much of the body in that outfit, only the head is covered with a pointy hat.

I did specify the NES game you cheater. But yeah, my point is that ambiguous designs are more than possible for most classes and I think that's the way they should go unless they want to personalize all generics.

[Emperor Hardin]

3 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I did specify the NES game you cheater. But yeah, my point is that ambiguous designs are more than possible for most classes and I think that's the way they should go unless they want to personalize all generics.

The NES sprite for male mages is the same, just less colorful. A toga covered by a cape and pointy hat.

[Jotari]

46 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

The NES sprite for male mages is the same, just less colorful. A toga covered by a cape and pointy hat.

Same design, but lower graphic resolution means the body is more obscured.

[Djing]

The poll answers seem loaded to me. I want to say yes, but the yes responses say that we NEED to have female enemies in Fire Emblem, which we really don't.

[Emperor Hardin]

1 hour ago, Djing said:

The poll answers seem loaded to me. I want to say yes, but the yes responses say that we NEED to have female enemies in Fire Emblem, which we really don't.

True, I feel I could've spent more time on the poll choice descriptions, but I was focusing more on the opening post.

I was also thinking of adding another poll question asking why do you think female enemies are rare, though the roundtable interview answered my question.

[Dandy Druid]

This is a bit of a weird question- although I'm all for equality in games, you can argue both sides for this answer. 

Yes because women should be represented more as antagonist; it's a fantasy world and it doesn't necessarily have to follow our knowledge of real life. Women are evil in real life, FE can give them a more active role in that process (via characters like Lamia)

However, you can also argue no because having female enemies does portray violence against women, which I assume all of us on this board is against.

It's a weird conundrum where we must decide how "real" we want FE.

On 2/18/2019 at 5:39 PM, Interdimensional Observer said:

The part about these things called Kogals is questionable. The endnote and the linked Wikipedia page, which has a warning on top about its quality, say it is risque clothing and questionable morality on the part of young adult girls. But also say that the trend might have been an attempt to break with a misogynist fetish in Japan for the pure and innocent girl in a school uniform.

Did Kaga oppose only the attire of the Kogals- he doesn't like erotic garb (Maybe that is why he made Dancers slaves so often? Associating skimpy outfits with bad things happening to girls?)- or did he also oppose whatever you'd call their possible social/cultural statement? The Silvia sounds like he was against their behavior, which isn't exactly the best of things for him to say (and I'm not sure what he means about Silvia changing).

This sort of gives a reason why Lene didn't get much in-game attention after her recruitment. Lene looked like a "Kogal" and she hardly gets any attention. Out of all the Gen 2 girls, she's the only one that doesn't have any sort of Lovers Events or conversations. They could have forgot about her, but judging by Kaga's attitude towards characters that look flashy makes me think that they were approaching a deadline, didn't have time for everyone and cut out Lene + some of the other Gen 2 boys out of getting more conversations and development.

I may be reaching with my assumption. It's probably complete bull since it was originally about Silvia. I still don't get by what he meant by changed though, since Silvia's character arc is a bit... flat imo.

On 2/19/2019 at 4:25 PM, Critical Sniper said:

Hmm I'm not sure why I said that tbh but like I suppose the leader of a bandit group would also be a hot chick, since you know brigands aren't the most equality loving freaks I believe they wouldn't like putting a woman on a position of power so they would probably only put a hot chick as a leader (Who was strong too obvs). Basically like someone else mentioned, in medieval times women didn't really go that far unless men promoted them, and they usually got promotions in society if they were a hot chick. For example imagine being the wife of a man that participates in something like "The royal council", that would by itself get you far.

I mean maybe some ugly chick gets too banditry power if they are an exception to the genetical rule of "Male, trained muscles > Female, trained muscles" and she really is super strong but there's no reason why she shouldn't strive to be beautiful either. To be atleast more respected?

Wait what? By "promotions in society" are you referring to a change of class? Because if so, I would agree depending on the situation you're referring to. A poor, but pretty girl probably would've been sold/picked up by a lord to be a mistress or some other thing. Being a concubine was better than being a commoner, but they usually didn't have too much influence/sway due to a lack of courtly connections.

I thought the women with the most power were the ones who had a powerful man by their side. Either their father or husband had passed and they were the only one capable of inheriting whatever they did. A rare occurrence, but these are the only instances where you would see a woman get a "promotion" in things like royal councils. This was due to family connections, not by her outward appearance IIRC.

I mean, there are also ugly chicks IRL, just as there are ugly men. A bandit leader doesn't necessarily have to be ugly though, but she should be intimidating in some way. She is a gang boss after all. 

[Hanes]

15 minutes ago, Dandy Druid said:

Wait what? By "promotions in society" are you referring to a change of class? Because if so, I would agree depending on the situation you're referring to. A poor, but pretty girl probably would've been sold/picked up by a lord to be a mistress or some other thing. Being a concubine was better than being a commoner, but they usually didn't have too much influence/sway due to a lack of courtly connections.

I thought the women with the most power were the ones who had a powerful man by their side. Either their father or husband had passed and they were the only one capable of inheriting whatever they did. A rare occurrence, but these are the only instances where you would see a woman get a "promotion" in things like royal councils. This was due to family connections, not by her outward appearance IIRC.

I mean, there are also ugly chicks IRL, just as there are ugly men. A bandit leader doesn't necessarily have to be ugly though, but she should be intimidating in some way. She is a gang boss after all. 

Yeah from Peasant to Soldier. Yeah being a concubine is better but if you were really REALLY hot, how about getting to be THE wife of a lord, I mean it wasn't common (Especially with how poor people are ususally ugly but due to a lack of being able to not be dirty) but possible.

I think I mentioned this too? So I won't argue here.

Can't say no to that especially with all my classmates barring like 3 and they are obnoxious . I agree with a leader not necessarily having to look ugly, in fact it's mostly just FE's easiest way of telling us "This guy has a portrait but you can kill him". Yeah I guess she is a gang boss after all but I would suppose yelling and her sheer might would do alone. And there is no reason why she shouldn't pursue for beauty, I don't think a woman  would ever be happy about being ugly but I do know some take pride in beauty. Some general things are obviously to comb your hair for example. Also being strong makes you skinny so that helps. FInally I would assume being a woman that is stronger than men would want to make you take pride in that so shaving (The legs, the armpits etc.) to not look, and be mistaken, as a man could be another thing I think a female bandit leader would like. Plus she has got all the wealth from pillaging, aside from impracticality in battle, what is stopping her from buying a dress? Obviously the 2 last things are well, the face. You can't fix an ugly face and cup size.

Edited February 25, 2019 by Critical Sniper

[Jotari]

39 minutes ago, Dandy Druid said:

However, you can also argue no because having female enemies does portray violence against women, which I assume all of us on this board is against.

I should hope we're all generally against violence towards all humans, not just women.

Edited February 25, 2019 by Jotari

[Hanes]

2 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I should hope we're all generally against violence towards humans in general, not just women.

True. It's kinda dumb how we have words like homicide and femicide when the word should just be murder. What's the difference between killing a man and killing a woman anyway? They're both bad and horrible.