More Female Enemies

[Jotari]

14 minutes ago, Critical Sniper said:

True. It's kinda dumb how we have words like homicide and femicide when the word should just be murder. What's the difference between killing a man and killing a woman anyway? They're both bad and horrible.

I've never heard the term femicide. I though homicide meant killing a homosapian. And was used because it can cover murder (which is premeditated), self-defense and crimes of passion. Homo means one or the same. Off the top of my head I can't think of any situation where it's used to mean male.

Edited February 25, 2019 by Jotari

[Hanes]

1 minute ago, Jotari said:

I've never heard the term femicide. I though homicide meant killing a homosapian. And was used because it can cover both murder, selfdefense and crimes of passion.

Uh? Well I probably got it messed up then because in spanish we have "Femicidio" which is for special use of when a woman dies, but yeah I should have cleared it up better since homicide is general but when a woman dies I don't know why it becomes such a bigger fuss than murdering a man. It's kind off... concerning to know that if I get murdered people won't care too much about it. That being said, the news does tend to cover up more news about places everywhere so it could also just be why we see more deaths and also why it kinda starts mattering less the more you get.

[Jotari]

2 minutes ago, Critical Sniper said:

Uh? Well I probably got it messed up then because in spanish we have "Femicidio" which is for special use of when a woman dies, but yeah I should have cleared it up better since homicide is general but when a woman dies I don't know why it becomes such a bigger fuss than murdering a man. It's kind off... concerning to know that if I get murdered people won't care too much about it. That being said, the news does tend to cover up more news about places everywhere so it could also just be why we see more deaths and also why it kinda starts mattering less the more you get.

Oh, well that'd be a translation issue then. I don't think it's the case for English. Theoretically laws governing crime are equal, but in practice men receive harsher prison sentences than women and crimes against women receive harsher sentences too. As I said on the Kaga interview page, I think there is a biological reason we think this way, women are more valuable to a tribal community than men are due to the way reproduction works. But we have to acknowledge the differences between our biological instinct and philosophical opinion. And when it comes to a video game, only our philosophical opinion should matter, as we presumably are all intelligent enough to know that video game characters aren't real.

[Hanes]

2 minutes ago, Jotari said:

women are more valuable to a tribal community than men are due to the way reproduction works.

Thank you for bringing this up because I was JUST thinking of this a bit ago.

So here it is, WTF? If all men die wouldn't it also be impossible for women to reproduce? Aren't they both important? (I have heard that there's a higher chance of a boy being born than a woman do but I don't know if it's true) so like what gives? I have always heard of "If all women die then the world will be doomed" but I've never heard the opposite... why?

Also on the rest of your post I was alzy to quote, yeah violence against men seems more "Just like nature" so maybe we just naturally care less about it?

@Dandy Druid Hey it's getting pretty late here, hurry up with that response so I can go to sleep  

[Dandy Druid]

43 minutes ago, Critical Sniper said:

Yeah from Peasant to Soldier. Yeah being a concubine is better but if you were really REALLY hot, how about getting to be THE wife of a lord, I mean it wasn't common (Especially with how poor people are ususally ugly but due to a lack of being able to not be dirty) but possible.

I think I mentioned this too? So I won't argue here.

Can't say no to that especially with all my classmates barring like 3 and they are obnoxious . I agree with a leader not necessarily having to look ugly, in fact it's mostly just FE's easiest way of telling us "This guy has a portrait but you can kill him". Yeah I guess she is a gang boss after all but I would suppose yelling and her sheer might would do alone. And there is no reason why she shouldn't pursue for beauty, I don't think a woman  would ever be happy about being ugly but I do know some take pride in beauty. Some general things are obviously to comb your hair for example. Also being strong makes you skinny so that helps. FInally I would assume being a woman that is stronger than men would want to make you take pride in that so shaving (The legs, the armpits etc.) to not look, and be mistaken, as a man could be another thing I think a female bandit leader would like. Plus she has got all the wealth from pillaging, aside from impracticality in battle, what is stopping her from buying a dress? Obviously the 2 last things are well, the face. You can't fix an ugly face and cup size.

Getting to be THE wife is a whole other process. Working your way to be #1 wife is limited to those that come from good families, most of the time. Although there are some girls that had more humbler origins and became queen because their husbands loved them so much.

In general, FE uses "ugliness" to state that the character is unrecruitable. However, I never thought Lamia was recruitable because she didn't have an ugly portrait. Maybe a female bandit leader can be modeled after Lamia- conventionally attractive, but can still send a chill down your spine with what she says and how she scowls.

21 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I should hope we're all generally against violence towards humans in general, not just women.

...That's something I can get behind.

[Hanes]

1 minute ago, Dandy Druid said:

Getting to be THE wife is a whole other process. Working your way to be #1 wife is limited to those that come from good families, most of the time. Although there are some girls that had more humbler origins and became queen because their husbands loved them so much.

In general, FE uses "ugliness" to state that the character is unrecruitable. However, I never thought Lamia was recruitable because she didn't have an ugly portrait. Maybe a female bandit leader can be modeled after Lamia- conventionally attractive, but can still send a chill down your spine with what she says and how she scowls.

I agree with all this, bye!

[bethany81707]

4 hours ago, This boi uses Nino said:

So here it is, WTF? If all men die wouldn't it also be impossible for women to reproduce? Aren't they both important? (I have heard that there's a higher chance of a boy being born than a woman do but I don't know if it's true) so like what gives? I have always heard of "If all women die then the world will be doomed" but I've never heard the opposite... why?

Obviously, if all the men died, that population would be in big trouble, but considering human women can only produce one litter every nine months and men can produce as many litters as he can find women to mate with in that same time period, a society with two women to a man can produce more children faster than a society with two men to a woman. I imagine this applies to all mammals whose gestation period is longer than ten minutes.

[Jotari]

7 hours ago, This boi uses Nino said:

Thank you for bringing this up because I was JUST thinking of this a bit ago.

So here it is, WTF? If all men die wouldn't it also be impossible for women to reproduce? Aren't they both important? (I have heard that there's a higher chance of a boy being born than a woman do but I don't know if it's true) so like what gives? I have always heard of "If all women die then the world will be doomed" but I've never heard the opposite... why?

Also on the rest of your post I was alzy to quote, yeah violence against men seems more "Just like nature" so maybe we just naturally care less about it?

@Dandy Druid Hey it's getting pretty late here, hurry up with that response so I can go to sleep  

Well the logic is that if you have one man and a hundred women, then you can make a hundred babies in one year. But if you have a hundred men and one woman, you can only make one baby in that same time frame. In other words, how quickly a community can reproduce is capped at how many women it has, not how many men. Of course given the fact that there's nine billion of us out there and our tribes (ie countries) number in the millions now, this largely isn't a concern for us any longer. The unconscious parts of our brain might not have realized that though.

Edited February 25, 2019 by Jotari

[Emperor Hardin]

15 hours ago, Dandy Druid said:

This is a bit of a weird question- although I'm all for equality in games, you can argue both sides for this answer. 

Yes because women should be represented more as antagonist; it's a fantasy world and it doesn't necessarily have to follow our knowledge of real life. Women are evil in real life, FE can give them a more active role in that process (via characters like Lamia)

However, you can also argue no because having female enemies does portray violence against women, which I assume all of us on this board is against.

It's a weird conundrum where we must decide how "real" we want FE.

Fire Emblem handles violence very gracefully. Dead units simply kneel to the ground and fade. And you aren't killing them for being female, you are killing them because they are part of the enemy army, same reason you are killing the enemy male units.

9 hours ago, bethany81707 said:

Obviously, if all the men died, that population would be in big trouble, but considering human women can only produce one litter every nine months and men can produce as many litters as he can find women to mate with in that same time period, a society with two women to a man can produce more children faster than a society with two men to a woman. I imagine this applies to all mammals whose gestation period is longer than ten minutes.

Females are slightly more valuable then males when it comes to population in human, but only slightly. In other words, much less so then fiction would have you believe.

There is a reason, nature produces an equal amount of male and female humans basically.

[Dandy Druid]

1 hour ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Fire Emblem handles violence very gracefully. Dead units simply kneel to the ground and fade. And you aren't killing them for being female, you are killing them because they are part of the enemy army, same reason you are killing the enemy male units.

Good point there. Plus I tend to not really view the enemies "as human" as much as I do with the ones I control anyway. It probably wouldn't bother me while I'm playing the game. There is only a handful of times where killing an enemy made me feel bad, and that's usually with the Camus and a select few (Ishtore + Liza, for starters). This is probably due to how little the antagonists are developed in FE.

[Hanes]

9 hours ago, Jotari said:

Well the logic is that if you have one man and a hundred women, then you can make a hundred babies in one year. But if you have a hundred men and one woman, you can only make one baby in that same time frame. In other words, how quickly a community can reproduce is capped at how many women it has, not how many men. Of course given the fact that there's nine billion of us out there and our tribes (ie countries) number in the millions now, this largely isn't a concern for us any longer. The unconscious parts of our brain might not have realized that though.

OH that makes sense.

2 hours ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Dead units simply kneel to the ground and fade.

Don't 3DS enemies make this whole dramatic jump before ding though? I actually felt that FE9's and 10's way of killing enemies was dumb, like a falling to the ground would be better but instead they take their sweet time to kneel, do their prayers and then dissappear, making the animations even longer

[NinjaMonkey]

On ‎19‎/‎02‎/‎2019 at 2:18 AM, Emperor Hardin said:

She's only one single exception in a female only class and there are no other minor female bosses within the game. Similar deal with that FalcoKnight boss in FE6.

So? She still counts, as she has no plot importance whatsoever, which matches your criterion.

[Emperor Hardin]

3 hours ago, NinjaMonkey said:

So? She still counts, as she has no plot importance whatsoever, which matches your criterion.

No it doesn't as she is in a female only and is the only female boss in the game outside of Ashera.

Its not the same as the common female bosses of FE4.

[Jotari]

8 hours ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Fire Emblem handles violence very gracefully. Dead units simply kneel to the ground and fade. And you aren't killing them for being female, you are killing them because they are part of the enemy army, same reason you are killing the enemy male units.

Females are slightly more valuable then males when it comes to population in human, but only slightly. In other words, much less so then fiction would have you believe.

There is a reason, nature produces an equal amount of male and female humans basically.

Actually there's slightly more males born than females, generally speaking. But overall there's more women than men because males have a higher chance of dying before reaching old age.

[NinjaMonkey]

22 hours ago, Emperor Hardin said:

No it doesn't as she is in a female only and is the only female boss in the game outside of Ashera.

You said that (and I quote)

Quote

its noticeable minor enemy bosses like Batta and Gromell are always male.

Catalena's existence disproves this statement, seeing as she's in a female-only class.

So yeah, your statement is a load of BS. You should probably have said that they are "mostly" male instead of "always".

[Jotari]

13 minutes ago, NinjaMonkey said:

You said that (and I quote)

Catalena's existence disproves this statement, seeing as she's in a female-only class.

So yeah, your statement is a load of BS. You should probably have said that they are "mostly" male instead of "always".

A large number of the female bosses in Genealogy of the Holy War (that is to say four) were Pegasus Knights too, with the rest being Mages. So they were playing to a class type in that game too. It's not like it gave us female cavalier or myrmidon bosses.

[Emperor Hardin]

5 hours ago, NinjaMonkey said:

Catalena's existence disproves this statement, seeing as she's in a female-only class.

So yeah, your statement is a load of BS. You should probably have said that they are "mostly" male instead of "always".

Not at all disproven, rather you are relentlessly cherrypicking words just for the sake of causing an argument.

Catalena was a boss near the end of the game in female only class and was the sole female enemy in the game outside of Ashera. 

5 hours ago, Jotari said:

A large number of the female bosses in Genealogy of the Holy War (that is to say four) were Pegasus Knights too, with the rest being Mages. So they were playing to a class type in that game too. It's not like it gave us female cavalier or myrmidon bosses.

Lamia was a Swordmaster and cavaliers can't be female in FE4.

Mages are unisex in FE4.

[Jotari]

8 hours ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Lamia was a Swordmaster and cavaliers can't be female in FE4.

Mages are unisex in FE4.

Oh, Lamia was a Swordmaster? Guess I was just assuming she was a mage due to being a Hilda look a like. There are female paladins though.

8 hours ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Not at all disproven, rather you are relentlessly cherrypicking words just for the sake of causing an argument.

Catalena was a boss near the end of the game in female only class and was the sole female enemy in the game outside of Ashera. 

He's really not though. Catalena is absolutely a throw away boss. The only disqualifier is that she's in a female only class, which was never really part of the discussion.

[Emperor Hardin]

4 hours ago, Jotari said:

Oh, Lamia was a Swordmaster? Guess I was just assuming she was a mage due to being a Hilda look a like. There are female paladins though.

Lamia's squad also has female Bow Fighters, which aren't playable.

The female Paladins are really Valkyries, they promote from Troubadour.

4 hours ago, Jotari said:

He's really not though. Catalena is absolutely a throw away boss. The only disqualifier is that she's in a female only class, which was never really part of the discussion.

My point is, Genealogy is the only game with multiple throwaway female bosses. Radiant Dawn having one in female only class in a gigantic sea of minor male bosses is nothing special.

Even Catalena's portrait is friendly in appearance, compared to the evil look of the other minor boss in the Disciples of Order.

[Jotari]

5 hours ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Lamia's squad also has female Bow Fighters, which aren't playable.

The female Paladins are really Valkyries, they promote from Troubadour.

My point is, Genealogy is the only game with multiple throwaway female bosses. Radiant Dawn having one in female only class in a gigantic sea of minor male bosses is nothing special.

Even Catalena's portrait is friendly in appearance, compared to the evil look of the other minor boss in the Disciples of Order.

Or you could say the Troubadours are just female cavaliers since they use Swords from base. It's not a case where cavaliers were a traditionally male class, we had female cavaliers before that in earlier games. I'd say the Troubadour line was born from an intention to gender segregate the cavalier class like with curates and sisters.

Genealogy might be the only game with throw away female bosses but Radiant Dawn does have a single throw away female boss in anyway you can measure the term. She personally commits nothing to the plot, isn't seen before work after and only exists to be something to kill for exp (hell I'm sure many players don't even fight her given she's in a fog of war survival map). Her class or portrait have nothing to do with her one minority status as a boss (and if I recall she has some of the most psychotically devoted dialogue among the decipals of order and is one of the only characters to share Ashera's pure neutral biorhythm).

[Jotari]

And because I can't edit my comment, I'll just throw out that Fates has two throwaway female bosses too, so Genealogy isn't the only game with that distinction (though it undeniably does have more than other games). I also think Shadow Dragon has quite a number of female clerics as enemies, which is strange as male curates do exist in that game.

[Emperor Hardin]

59 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Or you could say the Troubadours are just female cavaliers since they use Swords from base. It's not a case where cavaliers were a traditionally male class, we had female cavaliers before that in earlier games. I'd say the Troubadour line was born from an intention to gender segregate the cavalier class like with curates and sisters.

Not really, troubadours are too different, they're main focus is healing, not combat. Hence all the troubadour and female Paladin/Valkyrie enemies with no weapons and only staves.

59 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Genealogy might be the only game with throw away female bosses but Radiant Dawn does have a single throw away female boss in anyway you can measure the term.

Yes, Radiant Dawn has a single throwaway female boss, but its a single case in a female only class. Its not the game making an effort to treat male and female enemies reasonably equally like in Genealogy of the Holy war.

Thats my whole point.

59 minutes ago, Jotari said:

And because I can't edit my comment, I'll just throw out that Fates has two throwaway female bosses too, so Genealogy isn't the only game with that distinction (though it undeniably does have more than other games).

Same reason, most of the Fates bosses are more attractive such as Senno. Those bosses are capturable and can be recruited to the player's cause, hence they didn't go out of their way to make most of them unappealing.

59 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I also think Shadow Dragon has quite a number of female clerics as enemies, which is strange as male curates do exist in that game.

Both Shadow Dragon and New Mystery only have the male Curates as enemies.

New Mystery of the Emblem even punishes you for killing female clerics and claims they were forced to fight by Khadein in the only chapter they appear, unlike the original Mystery of the Emblem.

Edited February 28, 2019 by Emperor Hardin

[Interdimensional Observer]

58 minutes ago, Jotari said:

(hell I'm sure many players don't even fight her given she's in a fog of war survival map)

Actually, it's a Rout, so you have to kill her. It looks like a Defend, but nope, it's a Rout.

Catalena might have been better off actually had she and Yuma, the boss of Micaiah's first Part 4, battle swapped places. Since Catalena being a Falcoknight would've had to have been in the Holy Guard, and therefore Sanaki would have been acquainted with her personally. Tanith and Sigrun too of course. It'd make for some good pre-battle chatter and boss convos. Although Ike's deadpan response when fighting her with him is kinda funny as is.

[Emperor Hardin]

Anyhow Catalena and to a lesser extent Sigune are minor female bosses, but my main point was that they are still token minor efforts and both games still avoid female enemies in general.

[Jotari]

30 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Not really, troubadours are too different, they're main focus is healing, not combat. Hence all the troubadour and female Paladin/Valkyrie enemies with no weapons and only staves.

Yes, Radiant Dawn has a single throwaway female boss, but its a single case in a female only class. Its not the game making an effort to treat male and female enemies reasonably equally like in Genealogy of the Holy war.

Thats my whole point.

Not arguing that point at all, but I would argue that Catalina or someone like her should be dismissed as a minor boss based on the gender or class. They are undeniably a minor boss.

Same reason, most of the Fates bosses are more attractive such as Senno. Those bosses are capturable and can be recruited to the player's cause, hence they didn't go out of their way to make most of them unappealing.

Both Shadow Dragon and New Mystery only have the male Curates as enemies.

Huh, really? I guess Wyrs has just made me associate Curates with being bald 

New Mystery of the Emblem even punishes you for killing female clerics and claims they were forced to fight by Khadein in the only chapter they appear, unlike the original Mystery of the Emblem.

I do recall that (and it actually makes a certain degree of sense considering Khaden as a country is more like a university), I just thought that type of unit appeared elsewhere in the games too like when you recapture Archanea in Shadow Dragon. If I'm wrong I'm wrong though (that's why I always preface my comments with I think).

 

27 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Actually, it's a Rout, so you have to kill her. It looks like a Defend, but nope, it's a Rout.

Well now I'm just being wrong all over the place.

Catalena might have been better off actually had she and Yuma, the boss of Micaiah's first Part 4, battle swapped places. Since Catalena being a Falcoknight would've had to have been in the Holy Guard, and therefore Sanaki would have been acquainted with her personally. Tanith and Sigrun too of course. It'd make for some good pre-battle chatter and boss convos. Although Ike's deadpan response when fighting her with him is kinda funny as is.

And now she sounds like a major missed opportunity.