The influence of fan criticism/desires on a creator's work

[Ottservia]

So I just got done reading the freshly translated Kaga interview on genealogy of the holy war and one line in particular sort of stuck out to me.

Quote

*I want to shape this game according to my desires, instead of trying to appeal to the fanbase
Kaga’s comment: I’ve always liked niche game genres like tabletop simulators. That said, I also like to watch some popular anime series, such as ‘Gundam’ and ‘Legend of the Galactic Heroes’, which feature complicated human relationships.
Even so, as the game’s creator, I tried my best not to push my own trivial interests onto the player too much; while they’re still present, I tried to keep them to a minimum (laughs).

I find this interesting because it brings up the question. Should a creator bend to fan criticism/feedback or just create the thing they want to create without conforming to fans desires at all. I mean there have been many stories of a series giving in to fan desire and it ending horribly. Anyone familiar with Shadow The Hedgehog may know what I'm talking about because that game was in response to fans asking if Sonic could hold a gun in one of his games. However at the same time Fans can have legitimately helpful feedback and criticism that can really help a series grow and improve to reach its full potential. Breath of The Wild is a fantastic example of that being the case. So what are you guys' thoughts on the matter.

I recall also reading up on an interview with Kishimoto in which he stated he wanted to give Sakura more character development but thought it was pointless because of the huge amount of dislike for her character among the fans.

Edited February 19, 2019 by Ottservia

[Von Ithipathachai]

I believe creators should account for fan feedback, but only for the execution of the content rather than the content itself.

You should be able to tell the story you want and choose what happens.  Say you plan to pair Character A with Character B, but the fans have other ideas for who these two should be paired with.  I think it would be more admirable for you to stick to your guns and go through with your pairing rather than give the fans what they want and end up with something you don't find as fulfilling.

However, the execution of your story (i.e. gameplay, writing) is just as important, and it is here that I think audience feedback actually matters.  If the way you convey your content could be done better (like characters becoming lovers out of nowhere with no buildup or foreshadowing), then you have an obligation as a creator to fix it up as best you can.

[Jingle Jangle]

There should be a fine line of creators making their own story and catering to fans. Too much of either and the result is something like Metal Gear Solid 4.

[Hanes]

I agre with Von Ithipathachai, listening to fans is important but do it too much and you just get a fanfiction only with a "Canon" label.

[Rapier]

34 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

I find this interesting because it brings up the question. Should a creator bend to fan criticism/feedback or just create the thing they want to create without conforming to fans desires at all. I mean there have been many stories of a series giving in to fan desire and it ending horribly. Anyone familiar with Shadow The Hedgehog may know what I'm talking about because that game was in response to fans asking if Sonic could hold a gun in one of his games. However at the same time Fans can have legitimately helpful feedback and criticism that can really help a series grow and improve to reach its full potential. Breath of The Wild is a fantastic example of that being the case. So what are you guys' thoughts on the matter.

Do take into account that writing a prompt for SF's Write Your Butt Off and writing professionally for the US fantasy novel market are two completely different things (well, duh). A person who's trying to sell their product needs to constantly have into their mind what their audience wants, what they tend to like, what maximizes the chances they're going to buy your stuff etc., and pander to that audience adequately. This also applies to any other media (including, of course, video games).

Of course, if you just repeat the same easy formula, your work will just be seen as generic and join the pile of mediocre fantasy/horror/whatever genre books there are. Authors have some leeway about what they want to write, but to even pass proofreading phase and be accepted by someone who'll print your books and make a deal with you, you'll need to comply with many market imposed practices. This is particularly worse to new authors - people like GRR Martin and Brandon Sanderson, already established authors on the market whose names carry enough of a weight to allow them some leeway, have much more freedom than a person who is struggling to find someone willing to publish their book.

Edited February 20, 2019 by Rapier

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Taking into account fan criticism is a must but you must never forget that you can't please everyone. Not doing that turns you into EA/Activision/Ubisoft where your PR has to defend loot boxes when the person that has to write the statement probably doesn't even believe what they're writing or you see a disturbing decrease in profits like FEH did during months of egregious inclusion of alts and the 2-character banner that sets a precedent nobody wants.

There's nothing stopping you from just continuing as you are and try what you want but the bottom line is that decisions come with corresponding consequences and benefits and it's always up to the decision maker to weigh those. How do you make a safer decision? You listen to those who are already your fans.

[Ertrick36]

Depends, does the criticism come from GameFAQs, YouTube, or 4Chan?

In all seriousness, you have to understand one vital thing, which is that not everyone will like what you put out.  So you have to decide what you want out of your creation and what you ultimately want to do with it.  You can never allow yourself to become a slave to the will of the fandom, but at the same time you can't ignore them entirely.  You must exercise your freedom of creativity carefully.

At the end of the day, what is important is that your heart is in the right place.  As a creative myself, the only goal I have is to lighten people's moods and entertain.  If that's really, truly the main thing you want to do, then you are less inclined to dig yourself deeper into a rabbit hole of bad behaviors and more inclined to be introspective to get to the bottom of the issues when you're starting to feel the heat.

50 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

I recall also reading up on an interview with Kishimoto in which he stated he wanted to give Sakura more character development but thought it was pointless because of the huge amount of dislike for her character among the fans.

What the hell?  This is Fates' Sakura, right?

I thought she was one of the better Fates royals.

[Ottservia]

2 minutes ago, Ertrick36 said:

What the hell?  This is Fates' Sakura, right?

I thought she was one of the better Fates royals.

No I’m referring to Sakura Haruno from the naruto franchise. A character who is infamous among the naruto community for lacking in development and usefulness. It’s a shame too cause had she been given more development she could’ve possibly been one of the most human characters in the series but alas that is not the case.

[NinjaMonkey]

I'm fine with creators bending to fan demand. After all, I've been vocal in my desire for King K.Rool to be in Smash ever since Melee.

[Ertrick36]

42 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

No I’m referring to Sakura Haruno from the naruto franchise. A character who is infamous among the naruto community for lacking in development and usefulness. It’s a shame too cause had she been given more development she could’ve possibly been one of the most human characters in the series but alas that is not the case.

Yeah, I don't know anything about Naruto.

And apparently I know nothing about IS and its writing staff, either.

[Dragoncat]

Idk if this counts, but I am very happy with how Toys For Bob handled Spyro Reignited, after making Skylanders, which many Spyro fans (including myself) feel would have been better as its own thing and basically is just with Spyro plastered on it. They interacted with the fans, listened to them, talked to the original devs from Insomniac, composer Stewart Copeland and voice actor Tom Kenny, and did an excellent job making Reignited do just that to the childhood memories of many people. They even did this for one Spyro fan.

But yeah, if a new thing is being made, instead of a remake, creators have to realize they're not going to please everybody and if they try, the thing will probably be crap. I knew Shadow's game was a gritty edgy attempt at Sonic, but didn't know that extent. Wow.

 

Edited February 20, 2019 by Dragoncat

[smgrinus]

The influence should be dependent on if said criticism is valid.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

5 hours ago, Ertrick36 said:

Yeah, I don't know anything about Naruto.

And apparently I know nothing about IS and its writing staff, either.

 

IS writing staff before Awakening/Fates era never really did much of note and relatively straightforward(i mostly said Awakening/Fates as a distinction here because i specifically didnt know much about them).

 

One glaring stuff in that time otoh is..... basically all about Finn - in particular Finn Lachesis is for all intent and purpose a canon pair in FE5, is hilariously more popular than other possible pairing, and there was some stuff going on when they implied Beowulf got with Lach or something

[Dandy Druid]

I would like to bring up it depends on the series/platform a particular work is on. For example, a series like Smash Bros should take fan criticism/desires more than something like Game of Thrones. The whole idea of Smash is to appeal to many fans of Nintendo as possible while having fun gameplay. Although there has been a lot of small changes since Melee, Ultimate's core gameplay/concept is still pretty similar. People don't play Smash for the story usually, they play for fun battles and for the cast of characters. If there's huge demand for a certain character, Sakurai should take that into consideration.

Meanwhile a series like Game of Thrones should stick to the source material it was inspired from (the novels) instead of listen to fan demand/criticism. They should take account some constructive criticism if they felt a certain character arc was executed poorly or a certain scene was missing something. Other than that, they should stick to what has already been planned. Giving unnecessary attention to a fan favorite and giving them special perks would only devalue them in this particular case, imo.

[Etrurian emperor]

9 hours ago, Ottservia said:

Anyone familiar with Shadow The Hedgehog may know what I'm talking about because that game was in response to fans asking if Sonic could hold a gun in one of his games.

I can't imagine Sonic fans actually asking for that. As I recall the concept was widely mocked when it was revealed. 

[dragonlordsd]

This touches on a bizarre but harsh truth that there is a huge difference between what people SAY they want and what they ACTUALLY pay for.

Heck, just look at Fire Emblem. 

Fire emblem awakening/fates is the best selling game in the series. Shadows of Valentia is the worst selling game since Thracia, selling even less than the Japan-only ds game. I mean... wow. People may complain, may say what they want, but at the end of the day, money talks, and companies have to listen if they don't want to go broke.

[Dragoncat]

21 minutes ago, dragonlordsd said:

This touches on a bizarre but harsh truth that there is a huge difference between what people SAY they want and what they ACTUALLY pay for.

Heck, just look at Fire Emblem. 

Fire emblem awakening/fates is the best selling game in the series. Shadows of Valentia is the worst selling game since Thracia, selling even less than the Japan-only ds game. I mean... wow. People may complain, may say what they want, but at the end of the day, money talks, and companies have to listen if they don't want to go broke.

But what percentage of Fateswakening's sales is FE fans, and what percentage is randos? Fateswakening also got a lot of marketing compared to SoV.

[The Roger The Paladin]

3 minutes ago, Dragoncat said:

But what percentage of Fateswakening's sales is FE fans, and what percentage is randos? Fateswakening also got a lot of marketing compared to SoV.

Also what percentage of the drop-off could be contributed to backlash/distrust from some of Fates choices?

[Hawkwing]

It depends on the kind of criticism. If it's a consistent compliant among several fans and critics, then I would say that the creators should look into fixing the issue. Even if said mechanic or plot point or whatever was intentional on the developers/writers part, they should still listen to what consumers had to say to gather information about what people liked or didn't like, and use that for future reference.

However, there are some cases where the creators should take what the fans say with a grain of salt. Shipping might be the most obvious example, but it could be about a game mechanic or story moment. For instance, the writers should listen to the complaints that a romance was poorly handled or rushed, but not that it was bad because "X pairing is better than Y pairing" or stuff like that. Similarly, complaints about a game being hard, when high difficulty was the entire point, should probably be ignored while criticisms about an imbalance should be listened to.

I can see the difficulties if man opinion is mixed, however. Taking Fire Emblem as an example, if you asked several what they change or improve in a remake of Binding Blade, you would get a pretty consistent list. However, if you asked the same question with Geneology of the Holy War, you would get more contradictory results, such as whether or not the maps should remain intact or be smaller, if certain mechanics should be kept or altered, and so on. In cases like that, I can see why the creators would have a difficult time making a final decision, and might just end up going with whatever they think is the best path to continue.