March 2019 Legendary Banner Expectations

[Interdimensional Observer]

38 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Mila is waifu material though so I think it is possible we get her now.  Forseti should be a breath user (maybe breath effect like Lewyn's tome) if he arrives.  

But Mythic Breath sounds like it'd be too commonplace, a tome would make him more unique. Rebrand it Soul of Forseti if it must be (since Gen 2 in Thracia 776 canon Lewyn lacks the actual tome Forseti).

However, I'd propose doing something which I think @Jotari suggested as an upgrade for Julius- letting Forseti-Lewyn benefit from any and all -Dragon buffs, at the price of gaining the weakness to Falchions and Nagas and their ilk (which Julius already has of course). It'd add a little diversity to Breath teams having Range 2 units to play with (and maybe for the heck of it this effect would also apply to Summer 13 Tiki and Halloween Nowi).

-Although then FEH should add a Blue Tome unit with the Dragon buff access feature, since Julius and Lewyn would cover Red and Green. Maybe Two-Seconds-Possessed Julia packing an Aura variant (I'd prefer Nosferatu- I'm discovering she isn't a bad Nostank in Gen 2 right now- but FEH don't do Nos)? Can't think of anyone else canonical for this role. But an OC or Seasonal could always fly.

[Jotari]

29 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Although then FEH should add a Blue Tome unit with the Dragon buff access feature, since Julius and Lewyn would cover Red and Green. Maybe Two-Seconds-Possessed Julia packing an Aura variant (I'd prefer Nosferatu- I'm discovering she isn't a bad Nostank in Gen 2 right now- but FEH don't do Nos)? Can't think of anyone else canonical for this role. But an OC or Seasonal could always fly.

Gotoh  would make the most sense to me. He comes with Thoron and he literally is a dragon.

Edited March 15, 2019 by Jotari

[Lewyn]

18 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

But Mythic Breath sounds like it'd be too commonplace, a tome would make him more unique. Rebrand it Soul of Forseti if it must be (since Gen 2 in Thracia 776 canon Lewyn lacks the actual tome Forseti).

However, I'd propose doing something which I think @Jotari suggested as an upgrade for Julius- letting Forseti-Lewyn benefit from any and all -Dragon buffs, at the price of gaining the weakness to Falchions and Nagas and their ilk (which Julius already has of course). It'd add a little diversity to Breath teams having Range 2 units to play with (and maybe for the heck of it this effect would also apply to Summer 13 Tiki and Halloween Nowi).

-Although then FEH should add a Blue Tome unit with the Dragon buff access feature, since Julius and Lewyn would cover Red and Green. Maybe Two-Seconds-Possessed Julia packing an Aura variant (I'd prefer Nosferatu- I'm discovering she isn't a bad Nostank in Gen 2 right now- but FEH don't do Nos)? Can't think of anyone else canonical for this role. But an OC or Seasonal could always fly.

Forseti is a dragon though, but yeah tome users that can qualify as mythics are few.  What I worry about is Forseti Lewyn getting the Legendary Ike treatment, which is pretty much being just a better version of regular Lewyn and making him obsolete.  Not only is that boring it also feels bad for original Lewyn.  I would prefer if Forseti Lewyn is a tome user to have a different color.  They did it with Micaiah.

I think Julius refine getting benefit from dragon buffs and halving damage from first attack from bows, daggers, magic and staves would make him pretty awesome and worthwhile to use.  More fitting for a final boss unit.  

 

[Troykv]

39 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Forseti is a dragon though, but yeah tome users that can qualify as mythics are few.  What I worry about is Forseti Lewyn getting the Legendary Ike treatment, which is pretty much being just a better version of regular Lewyn and making him obsolete.  Not only is that boring it also feels bad for original Lewyn.  I would prefer if Forseti Lewyn is a tome user to have a different color.  They did it with Micaiah.

I think Julius refine getting benefit from dragon buffs and halving damage from first attack from bows, daggers, magic and staves would make him pretty awesome and worthwhile to use.  More fitting for a final boss unit.  

 

If Julius would be considered a Dragonstone user for weapon buff it would also use Dark Aura's effect; and would be the only character that can use both Auras effect.

Which of course it's quite fitting of a final boss to have special treatment.

Edited March 15, 2019 by Troykv

[Lewyn]

1 hour ago, Troykv said:

If Julius would be considered a Dragonstone user for weapon buff it would also use Dark Aura's effect; and would be the only character that can use both Auras effect.

Which of course it's quite fitting of a final boss to have special treatment.

That is true and it would make Julius a little special.  Anything that effects breath wouldn't matter for Julius, unlike any other dragon while anything that effects tomes would.  Yeah and the whole dragons finally getting a ranged attacker would be cool, especially since they've heavily beefed counter options.  We got mystic boost (of which everyone has one Eir who obliterates dragons), legendary Marth, Alm refinement, the refinements of Julia and Deirdre, etc.  

It does sadden me that the final boss of my favorite Fire Emblem game is so lacklaster (never mind what was done with Jamke).

[bottlegnomes]

3 hours ago, Lewyn said:

They did it with Micaiah.

I agree with your overall sentiment, but it'd be pretty freaking weird for a wind tome to be not green. I guess I could see them going with that he's "holy" and making him blue, but even that seems like a bit of a stretch.

 

1 hour ago, Lewyn said:

(never mind what was done with Jamke).

To be fair, Jamke is actually pretty accurate. He was a bow user with good stats focused mostly in attack and slightly less so speed that came with a killer bow. That's pretty much exactly what he is in Heroes. It just doesn't really carry over in the day and age of min-maxed out the ass units, special weapons, and insta-specials. That said, yeah, I really do wish he'd been better.

[Ice Dragon]

1 hour ago, Lewyn said:

It does sadden me that the final boss of my favorite Fire Emblem game is so lacklaster (never mind what was done with Jamke).

4 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

To be fair, Jamke is actually pretty accurate. He was a bow user with good stats focused mostly in attack and slightly less so speed that came with a killer bow. That's pretty much exactly what he is in Heroes. It just doesn't really carry over in the day and age of min-maxed out the ass units, special weapons, and insta-specials. That said, yeah, I really do wish he'd been better.

If you ignore the fact that colorless infantry bows are kind of lackluster as a class, Jamke is the second best colorless infantry Brave Bow in the game right now with only Cordelia as his better in the role.

Jamke has the same Atk as Leon, but 3 more Spd. Against Innes, Jamke has 1 more Atk, but 1 less Spd. Jeorge, Nina, and Noire are all 2 Atk short of Jamke, though Nina and Noire have a 4- and 3-point advantage in Spd, respectively.

[bottlegnomes]

6 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

If you ignore the fact that colorless infantry bows are kind of lackluster as a class, Jamke is the second best colorless infantry Brave Bow in the game right now with only Cordelia as his better in the role.

Jamke has the same Atk as Leon, but 3 more Spd. Against Innes, Jamke has 1 more Atk, but 1 less Spd. Jeorge, Nina, and Noire are all 2 Atk short of Jamke, though Nina and Noire have a 4- and 3-point advantage in Spd, respectively.

I'd imagine Klein has a case if he counts (granted it's a personal weapon not technically brave, but same general MO), but actually forgot that Jamke's speed lead was that big over Leon. Also, just out of curiosity, I'm assuming you went attack boon for all of them?

[Troykv]

11 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

If you ignore the fact that colorless infantry bows are kind of lackluster as a class, Jamke is the second best colorless infantry Brave Bow in the game right now with only Cordelia as his better in the role.

Jamke has the same Atk as Leon, but 3 more Spd. Against Innes, Jamke has 1 more Atk, but 1 less Spd. Jeorge, Nina, and Noire are all 2 Atk short of Jamke, though Nina and Noire have a 4- and 3-point advantage in Spd, respectively.

Around so many Armor Units "powercreeping" the game, it's hard to remember that the only Archer that actually surpass Jamke in Atk are +Atk Bride Cordelia +Atk Valetine!Roy and +Atk H!Jakob (An Armor)... yeah, the only character that comes close is Leon, and as you said, he needs to sacrifice Spd to have the same Atk.

[Ice Dragon]

8 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

I'd imagine Klein has a case if he counts (granted it's a personal weapon not technically brave, but same general MO), but actually forgot that Jamke's speed lead was that big over Leon. Also, just out of curiosity, I'm assuming you went attack boon for all of them?

Yeah, I'm using an Atk asset for all of them in the comparison because Jamke otherwise blows them all out of the water with his 37 effective base Atk. Also counting Jamke's +1 to HP, Atk, and Spd from his first merge since he's neutral.

[Interdimensional Observer]

10 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

To be fair, Jamke is actually pretty accurate. He was a bow user with good stats focused mostly in attack and slightly less so speed that came with a killer bow. That's pretty much exactly what he is in Heroes. It just doesn't really carry over in the day and age of min-maxed out the ass units, special weapons, and insta-specials. That said, yeah, I really do wish he'd been better.

Agreed on the accuracy.

His FE4 self- a breakdown:

HP 90%- second highest value in Gen 1 (highest is 110), tied with several. Str 50%- highest value, tied with Sigurd, Quan, Arden, Lachesis. Skl 10%- the lowest value, tied with Arden and Silvia. Spd 30%- average, had by many. Lck 40%- average-ish, with quite a few higher. Def 30%- average. Res 5%- the usual for a physical unit. 255 in total growths is right in the middle of the FE4 Gen 1 pack.

His base Spd is good, thanks to the Archer class's stats. The Killer Bow's 100 Hit is +30 over every non-Brave Bow, which with his 14 base Skl fixes his accuracy issues. 11 base Str is not so high though, something his growth has to counteract. His base HP is good.

Pursuit from the Archer class (although shouldn't it now be translated as Followup?) allows him to double. Adept gives him with the KB (so light at only 3 Wt, the same effectively as Yewfelle and 5 less than every other bow) a 31% chance of dealing an extra hit. The KB itself provides Critical at a 14% (his base Skl) activation rate. 

Compared to Midir, Jamke has much better bases, with better HP, Str, and Luck growths. Midir has better Skl and Spd growths, but significantly lower bases, nor Adept. In growths, Brigid has as much HP, Spd, Def, and Res, more Lck, slightly more Skl, and less Str, and no non-Pursuit skills. Of course, she comes much later, prepromoted with +20 Str/Skl/Spd, and gets Yewfelle for a minimum of 60 Atk.

 

And then you have Charge/Confront/Accost (translate it as you wish). FEH has yet to add anything like this- a skill that prolongs the duration of a round of combat, for better or worse. I doubt they ever would.

[Ice Dragon]

2 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

And then you have Charge/Confront/Accost (translate it as you wish). FEH has yet to add anything like this- a skill that prolongs the duration of a round of combat, for better or worse. I doubt they ever would.

Always a good day when Beowulf gets attacked by a ballista 5 times in one round of combat.

[Sentinel07]

On 3/13/2019 at 5:56 AM, Yexin said:

i don't expect characters who are legends in their game (anri, crusaders, elibe's legends and so on) to even just be plausible to be considered as mythic heroes, simply because they are not gods, but legend

since legendary heroes are either Book 2 OCs or upgraded alts of regular fire emblem main characters, i don't expect them to be summonable at all, except for some focus banners, such as "tellius legends" or "crusaders' reunion" or something like that

the only mythic heroes i expect are actual gods, such as medeus, mila, jugdral's divine dragons (don't know how they could represent them though, even though i think possessed levin has a little more chances), formotiis (fallen lyon?), ashera, yune (maybe even ashunera), fe13 naga (grima isn't technically a god, according to echoes) and anankos

I'm not so sure about that. To give one example, Elibe's 8 Legends are believed to be extremely powerful. Their weapons especially were practically god-like, essentially bringing the world into imbalance with world-altering consequences. 

I mean, to be totally specific, Duma isn't even an actual god, just a really powerful dragon hailed as a god.

Edited March 16, 2019 by Sentinel07

[Yexin]

3 hours ago, Sentinel07 said:

I'm not so sure about that. To give one example, Elibe's 8 Legends are believed to be extremely powerful. Their weapons especially were practically god-like, essentially bringing the world into imbalance with world-altering consequences. 

I mean, to be totally specific, Duma isn't even an actual god, just a really powerful dragon hailed as a god.

well, being as powerful as a god doesn't make you a god: when ike defeats ashera, he's using yune's divine powers, but he's not a god, and neither eirika and ephraim are, when facing formotiis

also, duma not being a god is false, since manaketes in akaneia are the gods of that world

furthermore, they refer to duma as the "fell god" and the "god of strength"

the word "god" is not there because they felt like it sounded good

[Hilda]

1 hour ago, Yexin said:

well, being as powerful as a god doesn't make you a god: when ike defeats ashera, he's using yune's divine powers, but he's not a god, and neither eirika and ephraim are, when facing formotiis

also, duma not being a god is false, since manaketes in akaneia are the gods of that world

furthermore, they refer to duma as the "fell god" and the "god of strength"

the word "god" is not there because they felt like it sounded good

IS stated themself Mythic heroes would be godlike heroes. Doesnt mean they have to be gods! So Elibes 8 Legends might very well happen.

[Othin]

As cool as characters like the 8 Legends would be, the fact that they still weren't on CYL3 (except Athos) suggests to me that IS isn't currently considering adding them.

[Florete]

2 hours ago, Othin said:

As cool as characters like the 8 Legends would be, the fact that they still weren't on CYL3 (except Athos) suggests to me that IS isn't currently considering adding them.

If we're limited to characters we could vote on in CYL, the pool of Mythics will be incredibly small unless "godlike" can really refer to just anyone. Even Bramimond can't be voted for, and he actually shows up in Blazing Blade.

[Lewyn]

19 hours ago, bottlegnomes said:

I agree with your overall sentiment, but it'd be pretty freaking weird for a wind tome to be not green. I guess I could see them going with that he's "holy" and making him blue, but even that seems like a bit of a stretch.

 

To be fair, Jamke is actually pretty accurate. He was a bow user with good stats focused mostly in attack and slightly less so speed that came with a killer bow. That's pretty much exactly what he is in Heroes. It just doesn't really carry over in the day and age of min-maxed out the ass units, special weapons, and insta-specials. That said, yeah, I really do wish he'd been better.

If they kept Forseti Lewyn a green tome then they should make the effect entirely different.  Kind of like how LA Hector and Legendary Hector with their weapons.  

In FE4 critical was a skill, the Killer Bow gave that to Jamke.  Of course one could sell and buy it with other character, the ridiculously high price means that you were stuck with Jamke having it.  The other thing is he had pursuit and adept both, along with the charge skill.  So with killer bow he had pursuit (Doubles), adept (attack twice in a row dependent), chance to have multiple rounds of combat (which was super broken since it worked on melee units too), and each attack had a chance to critical.  So the stat spread they gave him is alright as far as representing his stats in FE4, however the other stuff that made him special and a very powerful unit in his own game doesn't register here.  There should have been a special skill or he should have got a PRF to help reflect the other things.  

 

[bottlegnomes]

2 hours ago, Lewyn said:

If they kept Forseti Lewyn a green tome then they should make the effect entirely different.  Kind of like how LA Hector and Legendary Hector with their weapons.  

In FE4 critical was a skill, the Killer Bow gave that to Jamke.  Of course one could sell and buy it with other character, the ridiculously high price means that you were stuck with Jamke having it.  The other thing is he had pursuit and adept both, along with the charge skill.  So with killer bow he had pursuit (Doubles), adept (attack twice in a row dependent), chance to have multiple rounds of combat (which was super broken since it worked on melee units too), and each attack had a chance to critical.  So the stat spread they gave him is alright as far as representing his stats in FE4, however the other stuff that made him special and a very powerful unit in his own game doesn't register here.  There should have been a special skill or he should have got a PRF to help reflect the other things. 

@Bold: That's a pretty extreme exaggeration. Yeah, it's a bit pricey, but it's not exactly holy weapon costly. It's actually quite common for people to give it to Midir since he has better move and Jamke does perfectly fine with a lesser bow while Midir gets a massive boost in strength with the killer bow.

As for the rest, none of those exist in Heroes. Nothing even close to any of them exist and to introduce them would be either stupidly OP or ruin the whole RNGless system the game has setup. The closest are extremely loose equivalent in Desperation to Adept and Brash Assault to Pursuit. What they did do was give him a powerful special and a kit that basically guarantees he activates it against any enemy that can counter-attack if he doubles, which isn't too unreasonable with 35 effective speed with a speed refinement and merge.

Maybe an adept equivalent could be created as a special, but that'd just be inferior to Astra since it would just effectively increase damage by 100% versus Astra's 150% unless they did something like making the second attack work to recharge the special which seems a bit strange since it'd be effectively an inferior version of just reducing the cooldown by 1. Actually, thinking about it, Astra in addition to proving Jamke x Ayra is cannon does the closest to mimicking the combination of adept and charge that he has since it's essentially a free 1.5 attacks.

I get that Jamke was disappointing, and I even agree, but in the context of FE4, he really wasn't anything overly special. He had Sigurd, Lewyn, Ayra, Quan, Hero Axe Lex, Brave Lance Finn, Killer Bow Midir, Holyn or whatever his name is now, and Briggid who were all arguably as good or better due to stats, weapon selection, and movement. Heck, even stat scrubs like Alec and Noish could be solid once they promoted thanks to brave weapons. As is, in it, he's one of the more impressive non-Holy Blood combat units. In FEH, he's a very solid bow infantry unit. It's just that in both cases, he's at the top of a rather unimpressive pool: Non-HB, non-mounted units in FE4 and bow infantry in FEH. Actually, saying all of this, and some other stuff I won't right now, has just convinced me more that while I wish he'd been great since I have a soft spot for him, his Heroes representation is actually pretty damn accurate.

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 hour ago, bottlegnomes said:

Holyn or whatever his name is now

Chulainn, as in Cu Chulainn- the "Dog of Chulainn", the ferocious warrior-hero of Celtic mythology who wielded the Gae Bolg. Chulainn is actually pronounced something like "hul-in" if Bravely Second's VAs were being accurate. How fans thus came to "Holyn" makes some sense then, I guess the Katakana used for his name (it is Katakana, right?) gets sorta close to the pronunciation, which isn't how you actually spell the mythological name in English. Mispronouncing it "coo-lain" or "chew-lain" I'd expected to be highly commonplace, which is why FE4 Remake needs to happen tomorrow and with full Voice Acting, so people will actually get his name right.

Why Quan isn't named Chulainn when the Gae Bolg was his, nobody knows. Though to be fair, Travant isn't named Odin yet wields the Gungnir. Instead, he is named after a fine Soviet automobile, whose reputation for reliability was so bad, people joked you could drive a golf ball further than a Trabant before it broke down. Maybe it's an allusion to the dearth of southern Thracia compared to the capitalist Manster District?

[bottlegnomes]

55 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Chulainn, as in Cu Chulainn- the "Dog of Chulainn", the ferocious warrior-hero of Celtic mythology who wielded the Gae Bolg. Chulainn is actually pronounced something like "hul-in" if Bravely Second's VAs were being accurate. How fans thus came to "Holyn" makes some sense then, I guess the Katakana used for his name (it is Katakana, right?) gets sorta close to the pronunciation, which isn't how you actually spell the mythological name in English. Mispronouncing it "coo-lain" or "chew-lain" I'd expected to be highly commonplace, which is why FE4 Remake needs to happen tomorrow and with full Voice Acting, so people will actually get his name right.

Ah, that's what it was. Thanks! I certainly would've been mispronouncing it if I'd just read it. Also, I really need to finish Bravely Second, and get my 3DS back from my friend

 

55 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Why Quan isn't named Chulainn when the Gae Bolg was his, nobody knows. Though to be fair, Travant isn't named Odin yet wields the Gungnir. Instead, he is named after a fine Soviet automobile, whose reputation for reliability was so bad, people joked you could drive a golf ball further than a Trabant before it broke down. Maybe it's an allusion to the dearth of southern Thracia compared to the capitalist Manster District?

Eh, like you said Travant, and why does Camus, a French cavalier, wield the Gladius which is now suddenly a proper name and a lance? Inspirations are pretty commonly just a name that sounded cool. Though the Trabant/scarcity thing is a rather interesting connection even if I doubt it was intentional.

Edited March 17, 2019 by bottlegnomes

[Sentinel07]

22 hours ago, Yexin said:

well, being as powerful as a god doesn't make you a god: when ike defeats ashera, he's using yune's divine powers, but he's not a god, and neither eirika and ephraim are, when facing formotiis

also, duma not being a god is false, since manaketes in akaneia are the gods of that world

furthermore, they refer to duma as the "fell god" and the "god of strength"

the word "god" is not there because they felt like it sounded good

He's referred to as that because that's what the humans called him.  Humans have a tendency to refer to anything that is absurdly powerful as a "god".

Manaketes are not gods. That is entirely false. Even Naga in Awakening basically says this. Humans call her a god but she does not consider herself as such.

So, in this case, "god" is entirely there because they felt it sounded good.

[Diovani Bressan]

I believe we can say that, since Adrift Camilla isn't in the Bond Skills banner, she is 100% guaranteed for the Mythic Hero Banner.

[Othin]

36 minutes ago, Diovani Bressan said:

I believe we can say that, since Adrift Camilla isn't in the Bond Skills banner, she is 100% guaranteed for the Mythic Hero Banner.

I wouldn't call it a 100% guarantee. I can see a case that she probably would have been on the Bond banner if not on the mythic banner, but it's not certain.

Adrift Camila is still very likely, though.

[Zangetsu]

Mystic Heroes means "no alt no salt"

 

It's Jahn if they're going for some reason still keep the Binding Blade theme. Even better if it were the 8 heroes or just Athos but I really don't care at the end of the day