Who are characters you dislike and DON'T want added to Heroes?

[Zangetsu]

Wha? A hate thread in the Heroes sub forum? I'm shock I say, SHOCK!

 

I don't see why I should be against anyone's inclusion.

I didn't do this with MVC, Jump Force, Fire Emblem Warriors, or Smash Brothers & I'm sure as hell not starting now

[Interdimensional Observer]

7 hours ago, bottlegnomes said:

It's been quite some time, but I never really got the sense that Petrine was particularly incompetent. She was a legitimately talented fighter, just the one time we saw her in combat she was up against Greil which is kind of unfair for any non-Laguz Royal not named RD Ike or the BK, and maybe Ashnard. As far as command ability, maybe more so there, but even then, she did pretty successfully track and nearly kill the GMs. It was mostly the Laguz showing up at a really convenient time that saved them. I think she might've also played a somewhat important role the invasion of Crimea, but my PoR is pretty hazy there. Her bravado always struck me as more of a self-defense mechanism because of all the abuse she received for being branded.

Actually, now that I think about it, Sonia isn't exactly incompetent either. If anything, she's even less so. She successfully infiltrated and manipulated the Black Fang and was a fairly competent mage in her own right. She was just a raging bitch.

It's not so much outright incompetency, as it is that they're the villains who get hammered with failures and feel anxiety from it.

Petrine was supposed to stop the flight of Elincia to Gallia, she failed, she was supposed to stop Ike and his army from getting through Daein (Ena was her servant), she failed. Sonia was responsible for sending whoever of Lloyd/Linus goes after HEL in Four Fanged Offense, defending the snow fort, and then assassinate Zephiel, she failed, and the Black Fang was annihilated as a result- the one thing she was good for. Narcian was responsible for the Lycia invasion, killing Cecilia's resistance, taking Arcadia, and stopping Roy from retaking Etruria, he failed.

Petrine was sincerely afraid of Ashnard's "You can be a general or you can be dinner. I don't really care which... But do try to show a little initiative, won't you?" quip. And Sonia if you don't go to Night of Farewells, is injured offscreen by Brendan, and then Nergal kills her as being defective, which she is aghast to. Narcian of course was so panicked by Murdock's warning he'd lose his Wyvern General title that he had to whip up Zeiss as a scapegoat.

[nirvanafan]

i am pretty much good with anyone, hope they do not touch generic characters or other franchise characters unless we somehow get all playable or major characters put in

[Jotari]

27 minutes ago, nirvanafan said:

i am pretty much good with anyone, hope they do not touch generic characters or other franchise characters unless we somehow get all playable or major characters put in

Captain Falcon is canon to the Fire Emblem verse from that one Smash Bros. trailer. Put Falcon in Heroes!

[Florete]

On 3/16/2019 at 10:56 AM, Rezzy said:

For my personal taste, most of my disliked characters are already in, but if I had to pick one to keep out, it would be Reina.  Why her blood thirst gets a pass while Peri and Hans's gets condemned, I have no idea.

Reina pretty much just gets a thrill out of fighting. She's not a heartless murderer of innocent people like Hans and Peri, at least as far as I remember.

[Ice Dragon]

On 3/16/2019 at 3:55 AM, Etrurian emperor said:

And she could end up blocking Shanan

The only way Lakche is blocking Shannan is if she steals Balmunc by killing off Shannan and buying it off the pawn shop, and I don't think Heroes is going to do that.

The player-usable crusader weapons are just such good excuses to give powerful effects to that I don't think they'd elect to pass them up completely.

[Party Moth]

Really, only Brigand Boss. I'd rather he be taken off the poll in exchange for characters such as Elbert, Lekain, and Eleanora who have actual names and relationships with other characters.

Other than that, I really only get on these days to post about how there are still over 350 playable characters not in the app yet, and we're in our third year. The alts tire me out, and I'm of the belief that after one alt a character should be passed up unless they have significant design changes or another incarnation. It's the only way to see all the characters I want get into the app at a reasonable rate (within the next four years). As it stands (alongside the waifu bias at IS), Bastian, Tauroneo, Lorenz, Renault and Mycen will never make it in.

[Jotari]

A lot of people given the Brigand Boss shit, but I honestly think he could be a legit interesting character, as he's an archetype of a very common feature of the series. Could be used as a vehicle to expand on the idea of bandits and give a bit more of a philosophy to them beyond ugly exp bags. Of course there's other characters that could do this too (like Gandolf). I'm just saying that being in because "lol da memes" doesn't mean something interesting still can't be derived (plus axe user, we always need more green units in the summoning pool).

[Baldrick]

Ideally, every character on the CYL poll and several notable omissions should be in Heroes. But since that isn't going to happen, there are some characters that "deserve" to be added more than others. Personally, I'd consider factors such as:

Representation - Every game should get a decent part of its cast in. I'll say no more on this.

Significance - Plot important or other prominent characters have more chances to have built a well-rounded characterisation, and plot threads to pique the interest of players unfamiliar with the character.

Popularity - Every character has their fans, but the more votes a character got, the more people are waiting for them, so they should have priority.

Power - Character with some unique weapon or ability can replicate it to more easily become an interesting unit, and non-combatants should be at the bottom of the list unless their support role is significant.

[GrandeRampel]

1 hour ago, Baldrick said:

Ideally, every character on the CYL poll and several notable omissions should be in Heroes. But since that isn't going to happen, there are some characters that "deserve" to be added more than others. Personally, I'd consider factors such as:

Representation - Every game should get a decent part of its cast in. I'll say no more on this.

Significance - Plot important or other prominent characters have more chances to have built a well-rounded characterisation, and plot threads to pique the interest of players unfamiliar with the character.

Popularity - Every character has their fans, but the more votes a character got, the more people are waiting for them, so they should have priority.

Power - Character with some unique weapon or ability can replicate it to more easily become an interesting unit, and non-combatants should be at the bottom of the list unless their support role is significant.

Can I say that I love the way you ordered them? How powerful the unit was should be at the bottom of the priority checklist.

Their personality and significance to the plot are way more important. And of course representation trumps everything else. Sadly, I think in IS' mind representation is the least important thing and popularity trumps everything else.

Edited March 18, 2019 by GrandeRampel

[Jotari]

22 minutes ago, GrandeRampel said:

Can I say that I love the way you ordered them? How powerful the unit was should be at the bottom of the priority checklist.

Their personality and significance to the plot are way more important. And of course representation trumps everything else. Sadly, I think in IS' mind representation is the least important thing and popularity trumps everything else.

Eh, I'd consider power one of the higher things that should get priority, as I rank more interesting gameplay as better than interesting personalities. That's why I want characters like Marla or Gotoh to get in despite having no real attachment to them as characters.

[GrandeRampel]

6 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Eh, I'd consider power one of the higher things that should get priority, as I rank more interesting gameplay as better than interesting personalities. That's why I want characters like Marla or Gotoh to get in despite having no real attachment to them as characters.

To be fair I draw a fine line between power meaning a unique ability, or something only they can do (like Old Arvis being a canon Armor Mage, or Shannan having a unique weapon) and power meaning simply stats, like Rutger or Haar. Name a weapon or special abilty unique to them. They should not get priority, except for popularity, and they have it so it's alright.

Edited March 18, 2019 by GrandeRampel

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, GrandeRampel said:

To be fair I draw a fine line between power meaning a unique ability, or something only they can do (like Old Arvis being a canon Armor Mage, or Shannan having a unique weapon) and power meaning simply stats, like Rutger or Haar. Name a weapon or special abilty unique to them. They should not get priority, except for popularity, and they have it so it's alright.

I meant power to mean unique abilities and traits, just like the person you quoted described it.

[Etrurian emperor]

5 hours ago, Jotari said:

A lot of people given the Brigand Boss shit, but I honestly think he could be a legit interesting character, as he's an archetype of a very common feature of the series. Could be used as a vehicle to expand on the idea of bandits and give a bit more of a philosophy to them beyond ugly exp bags. Of course there's other characters that could do this too (like Gandolf). I'm just saying that being in because "lol da memes" doesn't mean something interesting still can't be derived (plus axe user, we always need more green units in the summoning pool).

I think a Brigand boss representing the whole archetype could make for some amusing team compositions. 

You could have Brigand boss team up with Eliwood who's castle he tried to sack, Florina who he tried to enslave, Gordin who he gagged or Garcia who's village he tried looting. 

 

[Ice Dragon]

6 hours ago, Jotari said:

A lot of people given the Brigand Boss shit, but I honestly think he could be a legit interesting character, as he's an archetype of a very common feature of the series.

Brigand Boss is an actual character, not an archetype. He is the unnamed boss character in Act 1 of Echoes at the Thieves' Shrine.

[NoirCore]

On 3/15/2019 at 8:54 PM, Icelerate said:

I would be salty if a troll pick like Brigand Boss or Jorge made it into the game just because of CYL votes. I don't feel too strongly about characters I dislike so I'd be fine with them getting in Heroes. Though if someone with barely any characterization like Fiona, Lyre, Kyzha, etc. made it into the game over far more popular and compelling characters, I'd be upset. 

Can't say I agree with getting upset with characters lacking characterization getting in. If anything, Heroes is their best opportunity to GAIN characterization, especially if there's a Forging Bonds event. I'd love that for characters like Vika, who looks pretty and seems nice yet got ignored characterization-wise due to the lack of supports.

[Jotari]

12 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Brigand Boss is an actual character, not an archetype. He is the unnamed boss character in Act 1 of Echoes at the Thieves' Shrine.

Yes. I'm aware of that. It doesn't stop him from being an archetypical brigand boss though.

[Icelerate]

1 hour ago, NoirCore said:

Can't say I agree with getting upset with characters lacking characterization getting in. If anything, Heroes is their best opportunity to GAIN characterization, especially if there's a Forging Bonds event. I'd love that for characters like Vika, who looks pretty and seems nice yet got ignored characterization-wise due to the lack of supports.

Since Vika is one of the few options for bird laguz, that would be fine. 

But I don't agree with this logic because Heroes characterization isn't very good for non OC so it isn't going to improve any character substantially. 

Why not add characters who are already good and make them better in that case? Because going by your logic, none of the FE lords should be in over characters like Meg just because they already had their chance in being characterized. 

Quote

Representation - Every game should get a decent part of its cast in. I'll say no more on this.

Significance - Plot important or other prominent characters have more chances to have built a well-rounded characterisation, and plot threads to pique the interest of players unfamiliar with the character.

Popularity - Every character has their fans, but the more votes a character got, the more people are waiting for them, so they should have priority.

Power - Character with some unique weapon or ability can replicate it to more easily become an interesting unit, and non-combatants should be at the bottom of the list unless their support role is significant.

Define "decent part of its cast". Which games do you think are not properly represented? I think Thracia is the biggest offender but Tellius could use some improvement still.

I agree, but most FE games don't have many plot relevant characters. I think characters who are iconic for their ability and/or usefulness could also be considered in the category of significance. We do need characters like Pelleas, Skrimir and Guinivere, etc. who may not be very popular or even playable. 

I'd say any character that gets over 1k votes in any CYL is popular enough to get in. What about you?

Agreed. There aren't many beast, dragons, armours or axe cavalry so might as well add most of them in the game. On the other hand, they can ease off on the number of sword infantry and lance fliers which are a bloated category. 

[bottlegnomes]

On 3/17/2019 at 10:46 AM, Interdimensional Observer said:

It's not so much outright incompetency, as it is that they're the villains who get hammered with failures and feel anxiety from it.

Petrine was supposed to stop the flight of Elincia to Gallia, she failed, she was supposed to stop Ike and his army from getting through Daein (Ena was her servant), she failed. Sonia was responsible for sending whoever of Lloyd/Linus goes after HEL in Four Fanged Offense, defending the snow fort, and then assassinate Zephiel, she failed, and the Black Fang was annihilated as a result- the one thing she was good for. Narcian was responsible for the Lycia invasion, killing Cecilia's resistance, taking Arcadia, and stopping Roy from retaking Etruria, he failed.

Petrine was sincerely afraid of Ashnard's "You can be a general or you can be dinner. I don't really care which... But do try to show a little initiative, won't you?" quip. And Sonia if you don't go to Night of Farewells, is injured offscreen by Brendan, and then Nergal kills her as being defective, which she is aghast to. Narcian of course was so panicked by Murdock's warning he'd lose his Wyvern General title that he had to whip up Zeiss as a scapegoat.

Ah, I get what you mean. Yeah, Petrine and Sonia would fall into that group then. I would probably differentiate that they aren't so much made to look like buffoons like Kempf and Narcien as the subjects of streaks of bad luck due to being on the opposite side of the heroes. Kepmf and Narcien always came across as mediocre leaders and combatants who just got to their station by brown-nosing and stealing credit. Then again, it's also been a while since I played either of those and, well, they are fan translations, so maybe I'm not giving either of them enough credit.

As far as Ashnard's quote, to be fair, he was probably dead serious about feeding her to Rajaion. Maybe I'm reading a bit too much into it, but the fact that he even gave her a second chance seems like it means she had proved herself pretty invaluable in the past. When Ena failed, he was just like "Eh, kill 'er," which seems like it'd be a bit more in line with his general disposition.

I probably should replay PoR again and reread the story. I remember liking it quite a bit. Would be interesting to see how it holds up all these years later.

EDIT: Oh, I think I mistook the point of your last paragraph. In that case, you can ignore my second.

Edited March 18, 2019 by bottlegnomes

[Etrurian emperor]

4 hours ago, Icelerate said:

Define "decent part of its cast". Which games do you think are not properly represented? I think Thracia is the biggest offender but Tellius could use some improvement still.

I think that's a very interesting aspect to discuss. What gives a series a good amount of representation?

For me strong representation means allowing for the least amount of gaps in the roster. Its not just about having a lot of characters but about having main characters, minor characters and villains all be properly represented. 

Despite not having a lot of banners I think Archenea has very proper representation because practically everyone of importance is there. Marth and all his retainers are present, many supporting characters like the Macedon woman and the archetype starters are there and almost every prominent villains got included at an early stage. Archenea still has some gaps like Medeus or Nyna but you could say just about any group is already very strongly represented. 

Same with Fates which has all the royals(several versions of them even), all the royal retainers, its main villain and several second gens. There's certainly room for some additions like Forrest but everyone who's absolutely required was included ages ago. 

This is contrasted with Tellius which is pretty much defined by the enormous gaps in its roster. Aside from the Black Knight we don't really have any serious Tellius villain, until recently the Laguz were completely absent, a large amount of Greil mercenaries and Dawn brigade members are still missing and Tellius can boast of very few miscellaneous minor characters. Its not just the low number of characters that's noticeable but the amount of large gaps that still need to be filled. 

Blazing sword sits somewhere in the middle. It minor characters are pretty well represented with Serra, Matthew, Raven, Lucius and the like all being included but aside from the two Ostians no member Lyn's or Eliwood's inner circle is present at this moment and Blazing Sword still lacks a real villain. Even some very prominent characters like Nils are still missing in action. 

I think its all about finding a good balance between main characters, minor characters, lord's loved ones and villains. 

Edited March 18, 2019 by Etrurian emperor

[Baldrick]

10 hours ago, GrandeRampel said:

Can I say that I love the way you ordered them? How powerful the unit was should be at the bottom of the priority checklist.

 

9 hours ago, Jotari said:

Eh, I'd consider power one of the higher things that should get priority, as I rank more interesting gameplay as better than interesting personalities.

Well, there's nothing stopping IS from giving an important or popular character an interesting skillset, like with Duma or Velouria. But with all other factors being equal, working from something is better than starting from scratch.

 

5 hours ago, Icelerate said:

 

Define "decent part of its cast". Which games do you think are not properly represented? I think Thracia is the biggest offender but Tellius could use some improvement still.

 

1 hour ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I think that's a very interesting aspect to discuss. What gives a series a good amount of representation?

For me strong representation means allowing for the least amount of gaps in the roster. Its not just about having a lot of characters but about having main characters, minor characters and villains all be properly represented.

I'd judge good representation/decent part of the cast based on how long and in how much detail you could talk about the game without mentioning characters not in Heroes.

The best representation would draw from characters that have an effect on the plot, the leaders/generals of each country/group, characters that have a subplot, and members of the lord's posse or have a close relationship to the lord.

5 hours ago, Icelerate said:

I'd say any character that gets over 1k votes in any CYL is popular enough to get in. What about you?

It's fair to say every new banner should have at least one character that popular.

5 hours ago, Icelerate said:

Agreed. There aren't many beast, dragons, armours or axe cavalry so might as well add most of them in the game. On the other hand, they can ease off on the number of sword infantry and lance fliers which are a bloated category. 

Yes, their niche is another factor to consider. The less alternatives that already exist, the more appealing they'll be.

[Mercakete]

9 hours ago, NoirCore said:

Can't say I agree with getting upset with characters lacking characterization getting in. If anything, Heroes is their best opportunity to GAIN characterization, especially if there's a Forging Bonds event. I'd love that for characters like Vika, who looks pretty and seems nice yet got ignored characterization-wise due to the lack of supports.

Totally agree. Characters in Heroes get several quotes: base quotes, character page quotes, skill activation quotes, etc. It's a great opportunity to get to know someone who was underrepresented in his/her home game. This is also why I love seasonals to death: you get to see a side of a character that you didn't get to see in his/her home game, since basically every FE game takes place during wartime. Seasonals in Heroes give you the opportunity to experience peacetime world culture. Of particular note was the first Valentine's event, where the main cast wore more "courtly" clothes instead of armor, and we got a look at a holiday they celebrate during peacetime: the Day of Devotion.

[NoirCore]

@IcelerateWoah woah woah woah woah, back up. There's a lot of assuming on your part which I never implied. I just said that I'd like those characters to get in, not "they should get in over more popular folks who already have character". Of course I'd still want popular characters that have plenty of characterization to get in, and I don't mind the occasional alt.

[Jotari]

6 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Same with Fates which has all the royals(several versions of them even), all the royal retainers, its main villain and several second gens. There's certainly room for some additions like Forrest but everyone who's absolutely required was included ages ago. 

Anankos seems like a pretty major gap in the Fates roster. Sure no one likes him, but he is the actual main villain of the game. Iago and Hans are also relatively large characters that are absent. Not saying Fates is under represented (it's definitely not), but those characters in particular I think are more wanting than the likes of Forrest (or really any of the Fates child characters who might as well not exist. And also Reina should have been the debut bow flier instead of Hinoka). Fates only has two villains right now, the main bosses of Birthright and Conquest (and I think Garon sits in the spot of deserving an armoured axe alt more than most alts). Unless one wants to count Xander/Ryoma as villains. Sumiragi also has his own unique exploding sword that would do well to get in (and really him and Arete should have been on the Adrift banner over more alts).

Edited March 19, 2019 by Jotari

[Gregster101]

7 hours ago, Jotari said:

Anankos seems like a pretty major gap in the Fates roster. Sure no one likes him, but he is the actual main villain of the game. Iago and Hans are also relatively large characters that are absent. Not saying Fates is under represented (it's definitely not), but those characters in particular I think are more wanting than the likes of Forrest (or really any of the Fates child characters who might as well not exist. And also Reina should have been the debut bow flier instead of Hinoka). Fates only has two villains right now, the main bosses of Birthright and Conquest (and I think Garon sits in the spot of deserving an armoured axe alt more than most alts). Unless one wants to count Xander/Ryoma as villains. Sumiragi also has his own unique exploding sword that would do well to get in (and really him and Arete should have been on the Adrift banner over more alts).

Dude, think to yourself about this. Who the fuck actually likes and wants Iago and Hans in Heroes?