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How to do Lyn mode for HHM?


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I am trying to start playing HHM and beat it but it's pretty damn hard and I've been thinking that Lyn mode could help me with training some units to make the earlygame of FE7 easier.

With that in mind, I want to ask advice on which units I should focus on to help me and so these are the units I am thinking of:

Dorcas: Earliest Lyn unit that joins in HHM so I suppose making him better would minimally help. Posssible angelic robe user.
Erk: Earliest joining magic user in HHM and Lyn mode. Possible angelic robe user.
Nils: For the gaiden chapter.
Kent: Faster than Sain and slightly bulkier. Possible energy ring for that extra punch he needs. Possible Knight Crest user
Sain: Stronger than Kent and has more HP. Possible angelic robe user. Possible Knight Crest user.
EDIT; Matthew: Will get to 14 speed. then won't do much with him.

And that's all really, I focus on those that will join the earliest and Sain and Kent aren't exactly mega-early joining but they are pretty good, any reccomendations and could anyone shed some light on where to use the statboosters? Also I am trying to not grind so making Kent or Sain level 10 seems pretty hard actually.

EDIT: I have finished Lyn's mode now and I had more fun than I thought I would, IDK why :P As for the units here they are, I included Serra's staff rank and the rankings I got.

Spoiler

gumE8RP.png "Hey what if I go and get Speed screwed?" Okay it's only by 2 and I'm not using her but *sigh*

pYoT4Pv.png "Please don't tell me women really value speed" He was being too slow and thus I benched him.

GlA5And.png "I tripped, again. Excuse me for this, Lady Lyndis" His luck never grew lol and his def didn't grow either. I gave him the energy ring.

Q5R6U1o.png "Good bases? Never heard of them" FFlorina's bases suck aaaaaaaasssss but her flying was useful in her joining chapter and Chapter 8.

kC9PCXu.png "I am an archer!" The most memorable thing I did with him was get a HP, STR, SKL, SPD level on him but then I had to reset. He actually got to 1RKO

WUjnWf0.png "I hope this is enough for Natalie" Dorcas was actually pretty useful, he didn't get speed but I didn't expect him to in 3 levels only, useful SKL though.

ZkXESEr.pngZm2YrTF.png
"I was invaluable wasn't I? of course I was!" I had her almost break 2 staves which got her that B rank and I am atleast happy her Mag didn't suck like it always has for me.

kaNvtkJ.png "Lucius go fuck yourself" I'm pretty happy with this actually, it means I have a really good mage for when I get to Chapter 14. I gave him the Angelic Robe.

JmFdReb.png "I'm not sure if joining Lyn was such a good idea" Never used, never touched. All he helped was some rescue drop in joining chapter.

eGu4dlA.png "Hi!" I can't belive that in 4 levels with 70% speed I didn't get 14 speed but meh it's easily fixed up for.

fVS18I6.png "I have your tactics ranking!" Mostly made Serra run around and ugh he really messed my turn count. Don't worry for that HP, Serra did heal it up.

weVW1oq.png "Erk go to hell" Lucius is pretty good and a glass canon however his later join time over Erk made me prioritize Erk.

CUShpvU.png "Come break your weapons against me!" That 28 EXP came from defending a northern part that spawned 4 soldiers, killing them gave 7 EXP each.

9tFFWid.png
I'm glad I did better than before but ugh I didn't think Nils getting to level 7 would hurt that much, so OK I gave him a level in Chapter 7, another level in 7x, another one in 8 and in 9 and 10 I gave him 1.5 levels, I don't think there's another way to do it better? *sigh*.

That's it! Comment on what you think I did wrong or best and if you think I should have spent stuff diffently. See ya!

Edited by This boi uses Nino
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I tried to spread levels in Lyn Mode to see how far some units could get. By focusing Lyn, Sain, Kent, Florina, and Lucius. They ended up in the level 7-9 range, which is a nice boost from their starting levels of 3-4 in Hector Mode when you decide to skip Lyn Mode. Didn't stop Lyn and Florina from getting strength screwed though. I should have been resetting for better level ups since a lot of those chapters are just a few turns long. I am very curious about that first knights crest and how high a level you can get one of the cavs before promoting them in chapter 10. The idea of having a second Marcus sounds very appealing, but they pretty much need to be level 15-20 in order to match his bases. Sain and Kent both end up surpassing Marcus in speed, and that cuts into how I use Marcus, which is having him rescue a unit I don't want to use (Dorcas, Rebecca, etc) so that his speed is cut and he'll leave enemies alive at low HP with an iron axe. But having a good Sain and Kent promoted or not at chapter 16 can be clutch if you're mad at Lowen's progress up to that point.

I can't think of a scenario in which Dorcas is worth your time though. His bases rock, but his 20% speed growth is very punishing and will get him doubled by most enemies by the end of Hard Mode. It's true his availability is great, but his growth potential is very one dimensional. I often end up getting suckered into recruiting as many units as I can, so Bartre is who I often end up giving some levels in his place to recruit Karla who is also worthless in Hard Mode. Dart and Hector are much better axe units to raise (though Hector's later promotion in Hector Mode cuts into the amount of levels he can obtain after promotion). Hawkeye joins your team as an optimized axe wielder, and if you end up getting the chapter with Geitz, he is also far and away better than Dorcas or Bartre can end up, as well as being the best user of premium bows if you don't care for the other archers in the game (I don't).

Erk also appreciates the levels if you're interested in him. His starting level is level 1 regardless of if you skip Lyn Mode so he can't get worse. He'll never be as good as Pent, but that shouldn't deter you since anima magic has the best stats of the three magic types and a few extra levels can get him going in Hector Mode. If you do Lyn Mode, be warned that Rath becomes even worse at a lower starting level and bow rank. Not that I care for his viability in the first place, but without Lyn Mode he's a mounted brave bow wielder and joins almost ready to use your orion's bolt, so you'll miss out on that by choosing to play Lyn Mode.

As for the Seraph's Robe, Lyn should be getting it, she's absurdly frail and that will not change with levels. Unless you're giving up prematurely on her being good, or if you're interested in a ranked run since having her come with a white gem instead of blue gem really helps with your funds rank and I don't think you can reach the 20,000G funds requirement in her story without saving that seraph's robe. Then again, avoiding using that Knight's Crest may be all you need to do as well since that's worth even more. Eh, don't do ranked runs, they get you playing the game in very unorthodox ways. Like raising bad units since you badly need to work on your EXP rank each chapter.

Edited by Glennstavos
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30 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

No Matthew? Because your first chapter in HHM only gives you Matthew and Hector to work with.

Oh right I felt I forgot someone but he isn't too good and can't do as much damage as atleast Dorcas can. I can give matthew some levels in HHM too in chapter 11, barely.

I'll only use him for the 14 speed necessary to steal the silver card and the Guiding ring.

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Do you want a somewhat fun playthrough, a playthrough that requires some shenanigans, or something else entirely.  Your options are:

Fun - Promote one of Sain/Kent. Get a few levels into Matthew so he doesn't immediately die in Chapters 11-15.  Throw a level into Serra (easy enough).  Throw a couple of levels into Erk and Lucius.  Get Nils up to speed, but that should be pretty easy.

Shenanigans - Promote one of Sain/Kent.  Shove every last level into Florina, and give her all the stat boosters.  Maybe get a level into Serra/Matthew.

Something else - EVERYTHING TO RATH, WHO CARES ABOUT EFFICIENCY/USEFULNESS! :P:

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11 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Do you want a somewhat fun playthrough, a playthrough that requires some shenanigans, or something else entirely.  Your options are:

Fun - Promote one of Sain/Kent. Get a few levels into Matthew so he doesn't immediately die in Chapters 11-15.  Throw a level into Serra (easy enough).  Throw a couple of levels into Erk and Lucius.  Get Nils up to speed, but that should be pretty easy.

Shenanigans - Promote one of Sain/Kent.  Shove every last level into Florina, and give her all the stat boosters.  Maybe get a level into Serra/Matthew.

Something else - EVERYTHING TO RATH, WHO CARES ABOUT EFFICIENCY/USEFULNESS! :P:

I want to not get shit rankings but I am not S ranking it either. 

I don't think promoting Sain or Kent would fall under fun, since getting them to level 10 sounds like a pain.

Definitely not this, fug Florina's bases.

THAT'S SO SMART I'VE NEVER THOUGH ABOUT THTA!!!!!

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Getting one of Sain/Kent to level 10 will kinda suck, but trust me when I tell you that it'll make life easier in the long run. Chapter 16 is one of my least-favorite Hector Mode chapters.

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2 hours ago, eclipse said:

Getting one of Sain/Kent to level 10 will kinda suck, but trust me when I tell you that it'll make life easier in the long run. Chapter 16 is one of my least-favorite Hector Mode chapters.

Oh  I know but I meant that I dunno how to do it since Lyn mode gives little exp.

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3 minutes ago, This boi uses Nino said:

Oh  I know but I meant that I dunno how to do it since Lyn mode gives little exp.

They should be able to get to level 4-5ish easily enough.  After that, feed them boss kills.  Should be doable in a reasonable amount of time!

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1 minute ago, eclipse said:

They should be able to get to level 4-5ish easily enough.  After that, feed them boss kills.  Should be doable in a reasonable amount of time!

I dunno... I'll see what I can do. Im also trying to S rank lyn mode so I dunno... nah hhm is more important.

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If you wanted to level up Sain or Kent to at least level 15-20 I can't imagine being able to do it even if you fed every single kill to them. Just not enough enemies, and the experience is best spread out to a handful of units. Like I said earlier, I got five units to levels 7-9 not counting Serra and Nils and I think that's a good benchmark to aim for. For Sain and Kent though I would probably boss abuse on Lundgren's map. No javelins on his map's stores, you'd have to stock up on chapter 5. Lundgren and the boss of chapter 9 are the only promoted enemies you face in Lyn Mode, chipping damage on him should be good exp for any unpromoted unit. I've never tried this myself, but that's how I'd do it if promoting Sain and Kent were that important to me.

Edited by Glennstavos
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8 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

Lundgren and the boss of chapter 9 are the only promoted enemies you face in Lyn Mode, chipping damage on him should be good exp for any unpromoted unit. I've never tried this myself, but that's how I'd do it if promoting Sain and Kent were that important to me.

As a child, I did Lundgren abuse Lyn to like 15 or 20, it's possible.

Getting Florina, Sain, Kent and Lyn to 10 is just about possible in Lyn Mode sans grinding, beyond 10 is wherein EXP thins.

If you don't care for Florina, generally considered the best user of the Robe and Ring, then toss them to whoever you want.

I generally don't feed Dorcas much EXP, he might come early, but unless you get some lucky Spd procs, it won't make a big difference in his performance.

 

To copy what I posted in an older topic:

"EXP in Lyn Mode slows to a crawl at like level 10. Even if you're only using three units, I doubt they're getting much beyond this. And how much is 1-3 extra levels at most going to help? Compared to distributing the same amongst everyone else, which could equate to multiple levels each?

I'd say at least Lyn deserves some leveling, particularly if you want to go Four Fanged Offense Linus version, since I don't find leveling her that easy or fun in Eliwood/Hector Mode.

For the rest, well Dorcas rarely gets much EXP on Lyn Mode for me, nor Wil, neither is really useful. But if I'm doing a Hector Mode run, I'll give Matthew a few levels for their first fight together. Rath comes too high a level to get much EXP, but being the best unpromoted Bow user, I'll see if I can sneak one or two in. Erk and Lucius definitely have great potential, and Lucius in particular has that C Staffs on promotion, so I might as well see get a slight idea of how they will pan out in advance. Wallace deserves nothing obviously. Serra and Nils take from no one. Giving EXP to units is no challenge when LM enemies are so weak and the maps just as easy- it's a giant tutorial for crying out loud, not Cog of Destiny Hector Hard Mode!

Sticking to Kent-Sain-Florina sounds super optimal, too much so for most. And it sounds a little tedious when using everyone else lets me get LM done a bit faster so I can get past this tutorial, while still not neglecting KSF on a standard LM run. And what is the point to feeding Florina a third of everything, when it takes until New Resolve for her to finally promote to Falcoknight? She has plenty of time before the first Elysian Whip to hit 20."

 

For HHM, I played with all ranks in mind sans EXP, that one is devilish in tandem with the rest. Forsake Tactics, and EXP becomes easier. It's these two ranks, with Funds in a third seat and Combat warning against boss abuse, which define the struggle of Ranked Runs I think.

And if you plan to S Rank Lyn Mode, well you probably shouldn't use the Knight Crest then, or the stat boosters, to S rank Funds. Also, if you plan to go to A Glimpse in Time, you'll have to rush early on to have the time for leveling Nils. 

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5 hours ago, This boi uses Nino said:

Oh right I felt I forgot someone but he isn't too good and can't do as much damage as atleast Dorcas can. I can give matthew some levels in HHM too in chapter 11, barely.

I'll only use him for the 14 speed necessary to steal the silver card and the Guiding ring.

And yet you're thinking of investing in Dorcas, who's even worse off outside of the earlygame...

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4 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

And yet you're thinking of investing in Dorcas, who's even worse off outside of the earlygame...

I knew when I read your comment that it was mainly a bash against Dorcas, considering how you loathe Fates' Arthur but I am obviously combining Combat with joining time, for example I will not give everything to Rath because he joins late even though his combat is ok or giving everything to Matthew because he is the first to join. I say obviously because I don't think anyone who has had almost 2 years of FE experience, this being me, would be that idiotic but I suppose I must have made myself clearer.

Anyway as for Dorcas I would say he is actually pretty good once trained since warriors, although gaining no speed, get a heck ton of Strength and Defense from promotion bonuses so arguably Dorcas' worst point, as with Bartre, is the earlygame and not "outside of the earlygame"; especially with not much weapon triangle advantage due to the earlygame having a higher concentration of axe users and sword users than those you will find through the rest of the game.

I'm not saying Dorcas is good but I think a few levels on him for extra strength and skill is better than base Dorcas, just maybe not even a candidate for the angelic robe as I though at first.

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9 hours ago, This boi uses Nino said:

Good bases? Never heard of them" FFlorina's bases suck aaaaaaaasssss

Beyond the Con, her's are still better than Eliwood's, and Wil's, and Rebecca's. Admittedly, these aren't the best people to be compared with, they're all relatively bad. Any issues at base I do find largely irrelevant though with Lyn Mode play, since the mode is so easy and its stat boosters vanish once the mode is over, so barring a play for Funds, it's best to use them on someone.

If you said Shanna (or HHM sans LM) I'd be more likely to agree, since she is in a much harder game without the luxury of easy battles to outgrow her initial problems.

-Although I probably shouldn't try to argue with you, since it sounds like you're beyond the pale of persuasion, and therefore, it's a waste of time and effort to type any of this. But alas, I felt compelled to do it at least once. Never again however on this point.

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4 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Beyond the Con, her's are still better than Eliwood's, and Wil's, and Rebecca's. Admittedly, these aren't the best people to be compared with, they're all relatively bad. Any issues at base I do find largely irrelevant though with Lyn Mode play, since the mode is so easy and its stat boosters vanish once the mode is over, so barring a play for Funds, it's best to use them on someone.

If you said Shanna (or HHM sans LM) I'd be more likely to agree, since she is in a much harder game without the luxury of easy battles to outgrow her initial problems.

-Although I probably shouldn't try to argue with you, since it sounds like you're beyond the pale of persuasion, and therefore, it's a waste of time and effort to type any of this. But alas, I felt compelled to do it at least once. Never again however on this point.

I mean 9 speed... come on, why couldn't she be exactly like Shanna I would have liked that.

I mean Shanna is pretty good since she flies and not 1RKO-ing enemies is common in FE6, only gods can kill easily.

H- how so? I don't remember arguing with you before, oh this is embarrasing.

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Just now, This boi uses Nino said:

I mean 9 speed... come on, why couldn't she be exactly like Shanna I would have liked that.

I mean Shanna is pretty good since she flies and not 1RKO-ing enemies is common in FE6, only gods can kill easily.

H- how so? I don't remember arguing with you before, oh this is embarrasing.

Maybe I overthought your choice of language. My bad. And you might right on Binding Blade on second thought (and I've only played Normal on that so far).

That last bit is more me restating a motto of mine, for my own sake, ...certain... SFers led me to assume that position.

 

I'm sorry!:>_<:

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1 minute ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Maybe I overthought your choice of language. My bad. And you might right on Binding Blade on second thought (and I've only played Normal on that so far).

That last bit is more me restating a motto of mine, for my own sake, ...certain... SFers led me to assume that position.

 

I'm sorry!:>_<:

It's possible I didn't make myself clear either but to say one quick thing atleast Rebecca can attack at range and not be too Oof with her def as Florina and do some chip but I won't argue Rebecca > Florina because that would be pointless.

Oh... well ok.

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1 minute ago, This boi uses Nino said:

It's possible I didn't make myself clear either but to say one quick thing atleast Rebecca can attack at range and not be too Oof with her def as Florina and do some chip but I won't argue Rebecca > Florina because that would be pointless.

Oh... well ok.

Admittedly, I'll admit Florina isn't quite a one woman air force on HHM. I found Wyverns had a 50-50 hit chance on her, not exactly good.

 

As for your characters, shame Sain got screwed. Well, Lowen is still usable for a long-term Cav (and I'm guessing you'll make him work). Erk I don't think is too bad a choice for the Robe, since dodgetanking does become possible for the speed stoic scholar. And Lyn is lucky enemy AS is so low in FE7, and that the few times she is forced beyond LM, it isn't hard at all to keep her well out of danger.

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4 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Admittedly, I'll admit Florina isn't quite a one woman air force on HHM. I found Wyverns had a 50-50 hit chance on her, not exactly good.

 

As for your characters, shame Sain got screwed. Well, Lowen is still usable for a long-term Cav (and I'm guessing you'll make him work). Erk I don't think is too bad a choice for the Robe, since dodgetanking does become possible for the speed stoic scholar. And Lyn is lucky enemy AS is so low in FE7, and that the few times she is forced beyond LM, it isn't hard at all to keep her well out of danger.

Yeah Florina like please just make her Shanna 2.0 or Vanessa 2.0

Yeah Sain got screwed it sucks. Lowen is one of my fav cavs but I hate his earlygame, it's so annoying to see him not have enough damage to 2 shot something or enough speed to double it's like Beta Forde but atleast his bases are existant. Erk just got so good and I'm happy about it. Lyn is meh, she almost doesn't double the ambush spawn cavaliers in the last LM chapter which have 6 AS.

Edited by This boi uses Nino
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Here are a few thoughts:

Not using Lyn is a wise choice, but honestly even if she is speed screwed by a few points she will still have overkill speed if trained (except with the final useless Katti)

I usually prefer Sain over Kent, but Kent is still good and can easily replace an under-performing Sain.

As someone who once had a Florina never once gain strength all the way up to level 12 on HHM I would like to confirm that her bases SUCK, but flying is VERY useful (plus she is needed to recruit your second possible flier)

Honestly Erk, and Lucius (plus Canas too) end up with very similar damage potentials on average (and in my experience as I once had a run where I trained all three just to get a feel for their differences) Lucius ends up squishier and with better looking magic and speed (in part due to low caps making them glow green), but Light magic sucks enough that it doesn't result in much more damage (although the extra staff rank on Lucius's promotion can be kinda nice). Erk ended up looking like a worse Pent for a good 5-6 above him (but even Diet Pent is still good, and boy was his availability nice) Question: @This boi uses Ninois this Boi going to use Nino?

I rarely bother training Serra due to Priscilla: the staff on a horse, but B rank staff already is kinda impressive

As for Dorcas you should be able to find uses for him in HHM despite Shadow Mir's misgivings (FE7 isn't hard even on HHM). I always have Bartre on my main team for Karla recruitment reasons, and I doubt Dorcas would play all that differently in the long run.

Poor Rath, he needs serious training to makeup for the extra bow rank he gets if you do not play Lyn mode.

As for your final rank I wouldn't worry too much about it, I once tried to get S rank on a LHM I planned to do before HHM, and I got to the end within the Tactics rank turn limit, but decided I wanted 19xx, and with the turns required to dancer grind I ended up dropping my tactics rank down to 3 stars (and to 5 star funds rank I think you need to save either the stat boosters or the knights crest).

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5 hours ago, This boi uses Nino said:

I knew when I read your comment that it was mainly a bash against Dorcas, considering how you loathe Fates' Arthur but I am obviously combining Combat with joining time, for example I will not give everything to Rath because he joins late even though his combat is ok or giving everything to Matthew because he is the first to join. I say obviously because I don't think anyone who has had almost 2 years of FE experience, this being me, would be that idiotic but I suppose I must have made myself clearer.

Anyway as for Dorcas I would say he is actually pretty good once trained since warriors, although gaining no speed, get a heck ton of Strength and Defense from promotion bonuses so arguably Dorcas' worst point, as with Bartre, is the earlygame and not "outside of the earlygame"; especially with not much weapon triangle advantage due to the earlygame having a higher concentration of axe users and sword users than those you will find through the rest of the game.

I'm not saying Dorcas is good but I think a few levels on him for extra strength and skill is better than base Dorcas, just maybe not even a candidate for the angelic robe as I though at first.

Well you're obviously not doing a very good job of it - Dorcas has good availability, but his combat leaves much to be desired. You probably won't find much use for him after the earlygame...

And I would disagree because his lack of speed gimps his offense, which is one of the only two good things about him. Also, most of the more dangerous enemy types don't use lances, which doesn't help (Cog of Destiny Valkyries will put him down quicker than a Shedinja that entered into Stealth Rock).

Edited by Shadow Mir
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11 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

is this Boi going to use Nino?

If I don't struggle to much with it.

 

9 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

And I would disagree because his lack of speed gimps his offense, which is one of the only two good things about him. Also, most of the more dangerous enemy types don't use lances, which doesn't help (Cog of Destiny Valkyries will put him down quicker than a Shedinja that entered into Stealth Rock).

Bartre is even worse off, because he can get doubled in his joining chapter. Dorcas is slow but he will not get doubled by anything that doesn't put him at a disadvantage. But those Cog of Destiny valkyries you mention aren't like a problem for and only for Dorcas. Everyone struggles with them so what is your point even?

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