March/April 2019 Special Heroes Arrive! Regal Rabbits!

[Othin]

Bruno is unlike the other "seasonal-first" units in that he has a regular version in the game, it just isn't playable yet.

[TheWildestCat]

5 hours ago, mcsilas said:

Panne would lose her transformation after being next to Nino though?

Even if both are the same colour horses they still have different roles, Silas is bulkier while Panne is a speedier anti-cav.

Sucks about the S support thing but that can easily be grinded again.

Simliar thing with the Nino vs Veronica thing, if you like using Desperation mages, (or prefer Spd to Atk) Nino would probably function better as Veronica's weapon prefers higher health. Either way, having two similar units can still be useful for things like Blessed Gardens or AA

You have a point, but I don't play competitively. At the most I probably do one arena battle or aether raids a day. I just like trying to beat the books on all difficulties and I believe that Veronica might be a better asset to the team. Then again why do I try going for certain characters as a free to play.

[Lemmy]

Do seasonal units generally get released in legendary banners about 6 months after original release?

[Ice Dragon]

14 minutes ago, Lemmy said:

Do seasonal units generally get released in legendary banners about 6 months after original release?

Approximately half a year, yes. A single seasonal banner is usually spread across two or three Legendary Hero banners, so it might be a bit earlier or later than 6 months.

[Othin]

12 minutes ago, Lemmy said:

Do seasonal units generally get released in legendary banners about 6 months after original release?

There's a lot of variation. Current pattern is three seasonals per legendary banner, which suggests the units from this banner will probably show up around September.

[Lemmy]

That’s good, used up my overtime money this banner, but I’m still interested in fishing for a +Spd Veronica. It will be very similar to hoarding for her CYL version.

[daisy jane]

6 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

If I could afford to whale, I could afford to buy a gaming PC with like an Nth Metal professor and half the games worth playing in existence.

I hate that I’m so attached to this game.

why?

it's a good game. :) 

[Alastor15243]

7 minutes ago, daisy jane said:

why?

it's a good game. :) 

Yes, but it's an abusive relationship where I constantly have to deal with this game messing with me, emotionally manipulating me, and gating off entire play modes in order to try and trick me into spending amounts of money so flabbergasting that even if every single full 5 hero summon from paid orbs had one guaranteed 5 star in it, I would still consider it to be an unconscionable waste of my money.

Edited March 20, 2019 by Alastor15243

[daisy jane]

1 minute ago, Alastor15243 said:

Yes, but it's an abusive relationship where I constantly have to deal with this game messing with me, emotionally manipulating me, and gating off entire play modes in order to try and trick me into spending amounts of money so flabbergasting that even if every single full 5 hero summon from paid orbs had one guaranteed 5 star in it, it would still be an unconscionable waste of my money.

what playmode is gated off to spend money? i know a lot of people who do extremely well - without spending a dime.
honestly - I don't mind putting money into the game - because i actually like the game and I want it to last for a very long time. i do think they (were) generous enough with F2P orbs, that I don't mind getting the monthly pack (or a few extra packs) to get 5* units (or even fodder sometimes) to make the game keep ticking. i only have to stop really because i'm losing my job in the next four weeks, thus having it makes no sense for me to do it (OBVIOUSLY), so i put my game money towards console games ie: FE: 3H, or Link's Awakening or Yoshi, (as well as stuff for like the "important" stuff, like food LOL) 

 

but really. if you play the game a lot, you'd like the units to help you play the game more, I personally don't think it's a waste of money. but i also understand it's an each their own thing.  when i have money i try to stick to a budget, (sometimes i go over, and that's poop)but it's like the above. i really love/enjoy this game. 

[Alastor15243]

1 minute ago, daisy jane said:

what playmode is gated off to spend money? i know a lot of people who do extremely well - without spending a dime.

Arena. I used to think Arena was this fun mode where you get to pit your best teams and your best strategies against the best teams from people all over the world. But about 2/3 the way up it changes completely into this nonsense where only people with the units from the latest banner (or the resources to make really good builds for the revolving OC bonus units) can even score high enough because it's more of a competition to work out how to cheese battle formations while only letting one unit fight. Only whales can actually afford to field full teams of bonus units every week, and even then they have to all be ludicrously well-kitted to hit the top percentiles of the Arena. Arena is just flat-out a playground for whales.

[eclipse]

12 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Yes, but it's an abusive relationship where I constantly have to deal with this game messing with me, emotionally manipulating me, and gating off entire play modes in order to try and trick me into spending amounts of money so flabbergasting that even if every single full 5 hero summon from paid orbs had one guaranteed 5 star in it, I would still consider it to be an unconscionable waste of my money.

Messing with you?  Uhh. . .

The game owes you nothing.  You're not entitled to a given character, no matter how much money you throw at the game.  And in the end?  Those characters are nice to have.  Your game will still work, even if you don't summon your favorite character.  I'm still sad that I haven't gotten a good Legault, or I can't summon enough Leons to +10 mine, but I won't get mad because the game isn't fulfilling my wants.

Just stop spending money.  Or do what I did, and don't spend any to begin with.

[daisy jane]

3 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Arena. I used to think Arena was this fun mode where you get to pit your best teams and your best strategies against the best teams from people all over the world. But about 2/3 the way up it changes completely into this nonsense where only people with the units from the latest banner (or the resources to make really good builds for the revolving OC bonus units) can even score high enough because it's more of a competition to work out how to cheese battle formations while only letting one unit fight. Only whales can actually afford to field full teams of bonus units every week, and even then they have to all be ludicrously well-kitted to hit the top percentiles of the Arena. Arena is just flat-out a playground for whales.

.... 
arena isn't P2P though. again. I know people who do extremely well without spending money. I'm doing really well  (and I actually upgraded/invested (a bit, with whinging) into my Askr Trio, only using F2P resources (and GHB units), and my arena core are units I WANT to use. the Bonus units are always - 1-2 legendaries, several f2P units, the newest units from a banner, and Askr 3+ Fjorm. 

I haven't has a banner unit  this year except for Nailah/Leanne - because I summoned for Nailah and Leanne. everyone else was either a Legendary Hero (that I happened to have, thanks, Ike), or using the Askr 3 + Fjorm. and I am firmly, 18 through (now 20, as i've hit that). and I am doing really well in 20. my friends don't whale, and have full bonus teams either. it just takes a little effort. (or doing what you need to do for 1 run, which takes a bit of work) - then do whatever you want after, once you lock in a good score). 

2 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Messing with you?  Uhh. . .

The game owes you nothing.  You're not entitled to a given character, no matter how much money you throw at the game.  And in the end?  Those characters are nice to have.  Your game will still work, even if you don't summon your favorite character.  I'm still sad that I haven't gotten a good Legault, or I can't summon enough Leons to +10 mine, but I won't get mad because the game isn't fulfilling my wants.

Just stop spending money.  Or do what I did, and don't spend any to begin with.

and this is where i wish trading was a thing - because I'd give you my legault(s). i don't use him. at all. (and my leons, though. I LIKE Leon. he's just rare, and i need ignis a lot). 

[Alastor15243]

10 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Messing with you?  Uhh. . .

The game owes you nothing.  You're not entitled to a given character, no matter how much money you throw at the game.  And in the end?  Those characters are nice to have.  Your game will still work, even if you don't summon your favorite character.  I'm still sad that I haven't gotten a good Legault, or I can't summon enough Leons to +10 mine, but I won't get mad because the game isn't fulfilling my wants.

Just stop spending money.  Or do what I did, and don't spend any to begin with.

I don't spend money on this game, apart from that one time I snapped and then re-assessed my priorities. I'd love to spend money on it, but I can't because they don't sell anything worth the cash. That's what's so messed up. It's either be a freeloader or pay the cost of a complete Fates trilogy or even a copy of PoR to get like four more characters, if you're lucky. I don't see how that's not worth criticizing. Like I said, the orbs are priced such that they wouldn't be worth my money even if premium orbs guaranted a 5 star was in every set of five summons. I wouldn't pay $13 for a single playable character in any mainline Fire Emblem game. Why would it be worth it here? And again, the reality is several orders of magnitude worse than that.

That's why I said I wish I wasn't so attached to this game. Its pricing model is so messed up and I wish I could bring myself to wash my hands of it. I'm not entitled and expecting to be given stuff for free. I'm happy to pay money for a good product. But this game refuses to sell a good product, and yet I can't tear myself away from the affair.

4 minutes ago, daisy jane said:

.... 
arena isn't P2P though. again. I know people who do extremely well without spending money. I'm doing really well  (and I actually upgraded/invested (a bit, with whinging) into my Askr Trio, only using F2P resources (and GHB units), and my arena core are units I WANT to use. the Bonus units are always - 1-2 legendaries, several f2P units, the newest units from a banner, and Askr 3+ Fjorm.

I know it isn't P2P, sorry if my phrasing was vague. My point is that the mode would be a hell of a lot more fun, for everyone, including the whales, if it weren't for all of the things they added to specifically favor whales.

Edited March 20, 2019 by Alastor15243

[eclipse]

9 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

I don't spend money on this game, apart from that one time I snapped and then re-assessed my priorities. I'd love to spend money on it, but I can't because they don't sell anything worth the cash. That's what's so messed up. It's either be a freeloader or pay the cost of a complete Fates trilogy or even a copy of PoR to get like four more characters, if you're lucky. I don't see how that's not worth criticizing. Like I said, the orbs are priced such that they wouldn't be worth my money even if premium orbs guaranted a 5 star was in every set of five summons. I wouldn't pay $13 for a single playable character in any mainline Fire Emblem game. Why would it be worth it here? And again, the reality is several orders of magnitude worse than that.

That's why I said I wish I wasn't so attached to this game. Its pricing model is so messed up and I wish I could bring myself to wash my hands of it. I'm not entitled and expecting to be given stuff for free. I'm happy to pay money for a good product. But this game refuses to sell a good product, and yet I can't tear myself away from the affair.

I know it isn't P2P, sorry if my phrasing was vague. My point is that the mode would be a hell of a lot more fun, for everyone, including the whales, if it weren't for all of the things they added to specifically favor whales.

laughs in DFFOO

You're complaining about gacha in general, and doing so in a rather dramatic fashion.  No one's forcing you to play this game.  I will gladly freeload because I can.  If I had to pay to continue, I probably wouldn't.

[Othin]

38 minutes ago, daisy jane said:

why?

it's a good game. :) 

It's a fun game, but spending money on it doesn't increase the fun by more than you could get by spending that money other ways.

Honestly, I'm skeptical of the idea that spending money on Heroes even increases enjoyment of it at all, for most people who do it. Overall, players I've seen here and elsewhere who spend money don't seem to be getting more fun or satisfaction out of it.

[Alastor15243]

4 minutes ago, eclipse said:

laughs in DFFOO

You're complaining about gacha in general, and doing so in a rather dramatic fashion.  No one's forcing you to play this game.  I will gladly freeload because I can.  If I had to pay to continue, I probably wouldn't.

I don't know whether to envy or pity your ability to brush those prices off. Fine. This is getting off topic anyway.

[Ice Dragon]

20 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Only whales can actually afford to field full teams of bonus units every week, and even then they have to all be ludicrously well-kitted to hit the top percentiles of the Arena.

Whales don't bother with full teams of bonus units because they usually suck at scoring. The threshold for staying in Tier 21 is also just not all that high compared to what our barracks are actually capable of.

It's possible to stay in Tier 21 with a +0 bonus unit as long as your core scores high enough and they are good enough at babysitting. And your core doesn't even need to be completely optimized for score. Mine still runs Reposition in the Assist slot for every member instead of bothering to shell out for Rally+.

[daisy jane]

31 minutes ago, Othin said:

It's a fun game, but spending money on it doesn't increase the fun by more than you could get by spending that money other ways.

Honestly, I'm skeptical of the idea that spending money on Heroes even increases enjoyment of it at all, for most people who do it. Overall, players I've seen here and elsewhere who spend money don't seem to be getting more fun or satisfaction out of it.

true - but i never said spending money made it fun. the "it's a fun game" was in response to the comment that he was making about the relationship that he had with it (but to be fair I could/should have been more specific so i can see how you could think i meant that). like i said. for me - I don't mind giving some money into the game because (until the last few months) they've been generous, and I'd like to do my small part to ensure the game doesn't die (and i usually sent feed back in saying why i bought a pack, so it was a given - I am buying a pack BECAUSE).... 

 

it was slightly tongue in cheek.  - my wish to have money to whale. 

 

42 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

I don't spend money on this game, apart from that one time I snapped and then re-assessed my priorities. I'd love to spend money on it, but I can't because they don't sell anything worth the cash. That's what's so messed up. It's either be a freeloader or pay the cost of a complete Fates trilogy or even a copy of PoR to get like four more characters, if you're lucky. I don't see how that's not worth criticizing. Like I said, the orbs are priced such that they wouldn't be worth my money even if premium orbs guaranted a 5 star was in every set of five summons. I wouldn't pay $13 for a single playable character in any mainline Fire Emblem game. Why would it be worth it here? And again, the reality is several orders of magnitude worse than that.

That's why I said I wish I wasn't so attached to this game. Its pricing model is so messed up and I wish I could bring myself to wash my hands of it. I'm not entitled and expecting to be given stuff for free. I'm happy to pay money for a good product. But this game refuses to sell a good product, and yet I can't tear myself away from the affair.

I know it isn't P2P, sorry if my phrasing was vague. My point is that the mode would be a hell of a lot more fun, for everyone, including the whales, if it weren't for all of the things they added to specifically favor whales.

... but. again it isn't? again your argument is like it's catered to whales. but I know people who are tier 21 all the time who spend nothing, and have the units they want to use and do very well. (and they are helping me do the same thing). yah. does this mean i have to invest in Askr 3/Fjorm sometimes - sure, (and sometimes i just go, whatever, I'll just demote, because i can't be bothered). I personally like GC/TT better. myself. and I was one of the rare ducks who really liked rally defense. 

I do have to say you are really confusing me. 
if you don't like it - and you don't think the product is good at all and there's nothing for for you, I don't know why you just don't stop playing. that's what I did (several times) before  roughly around last september, and i haven't missed it because i met some people (here) who were willing to help, and I slowly got really good. and i lucked out on some free pulls (or mad at the time pit breaks) but worked out in my favour. again for me. I think the product (overall) is decent for what it is and I'd like intSys (both here and whomever decides who put out FE Games) that this is a good thing , and allows us to get older FE games in the west. if i didn't like it - i wouldn't play. i just think while money can be wasted - you can always get  some more, time is something once it's gone it's gone, and if you're not enjoying yourself playing , then just uninstall it. 

Edited March 20, 2019 by daisy jane

[Ottservia]

2 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

I don't spend money on this game, apart from that one time I snapped and then re-assessed my priorities. I'd love to spend money on it, but I can't because they don't sell anything worth the cash. That's what's so messed up. It's either be a freeloader or pay the cost of a complete Fates trilogy or even a copy of PoR to get like four more characters, if you're lucky. I don't see how that's not worth criticizing. Like I said, the orbs are priced such that they wouldn't be worth my money even if premium orbs guaranted a 5 star was in every set of five summons. I wouldn't pay $13 for a single playable character in any mainline Fire Emblem game. Why would it be worth it here? And again, the reality is several orders of magnitude worse than that.

That's why I said I wish I wasn't so attached to this game. Its pricing model is so messed up and I wish I could bring myself to wash my hands of it. I'm not entitled and expecting to be given stuff for free. I'm happy to pay money for a good product. But this game refuses to sell a good product, and yet I can't tear myself away from the affair.

I know it isn't P2P, sorry if my phrasing was vague. My point is that the mode would be a hell of a lot more fun, for everyone, including the whales, if it weren't for all of the things they added to specifically favor whales.

I mean like eclipse says that's just how gachas are. I mean there's definitely a conversation to be had about this kind of monetization model cause essentially it's a loot box system and preys on the very same psychological principals as slot machines in casinos. As far as feh is concerned I wouldn't say it's overly scummy at least not yet anyway(it's starting to lean that way) as f2p players still have a lot of options and the game doesn't necessarily "force" you to spend money on anything and grinding materials isn't too bad. Then again feh is the only gacha I've played but from what I hear it's one of the better ones as far as f2p is concerned. 

[Alastor15243]

10 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

I mean like eclipse says that's just how gachas are. I mean there's definitely a conversation to be had about this kind of monetization model cause essentially it's a loot box system and preys on the very same psychological principals as slot machines in casinos. As far as feh is concerned I wouldn't say it's overly scummy at least not yet anyway(it's starting to lean that way) as f2p players still have a lot of options and the game doesn't necessarily "force" you to spend money on anything and grinding materials isn't too bad. Then again feh is the only gacha I've played but from what I hear it's one of the better ones as far as f2p is concerned. 

I just don't get why it isn't more reasonably priced. Giving a decent supply of f2p orbs is all well and good, but it doesn't change the fact that the only way you can financially support the company through this game is by voluntarily choosing to get ripped off. They might as well just have a donate button on their website for all the value they're offering back in return. If they sold more things like the BK value meal or even just sold orbs for cheaper, I might actually spend more on this. It's kind of disturbing that they believe this is a more lucrative business model, selling only to the truly spendthrifty and ignoring everyone else. And I don't know whether that assumption being correct or wrong would be more disturbing. Either they're correct and there are enough people willing to pay literally anything for these voice acted jpegs that they render the entire rest of the playerbase meaningless, or they're wrong and intelligent systems is out of their minds.

Edited March 21, 2019 by Alastor15243

[Anacybele]

I would actually like more bundles like the BK one too. Disney Magic Kingdoms is gacha-ish (I say that because its treasure chest system functions like a gacha, but there's much more to the game than just that) and is generous enough to throw out lots of bundles.

Granted, the game has its own issues (like the devs most recently screwing Windows players such as myself out of a chunk of the recent Princess and the Frog event due to a bug causing it to end way too early. They said they would address it and compensate players, but this never happened. I've quit the game due to this), but none have to do with the gacha elements.

[Lewyn]

This topic has infiltrated many threads, I think it would be great to have an open discussion about the monetization system used in Heroes, the gacha system as a whole, etc.  Cause it seems to be something brought up many times.  Same with fanservice, male/female ratio, etc.  Why not have a thread where we can really go in depth on these issues.

1 hour ago, Alastor15243 said:

I just don't get why it isn't more reasonably priced. Giving a decent supply of f2p orbs is all well and good, but it doesn't change the fact that the only way you can financially support the company through this game is by voluntarily choosing to get ripped off. They might as well just have a donate button on their website for all the value they're offering back in return. If they sold more things like the BK value meal or even just sold orbs for cheaper, I might actually spend more on this. It's kind of disturbing that they believe this is a more lucrative business model, selling only to the truly spendthrifty and ignoring everyone else. And I don't know whether that assumption being correct or wrong would be more disturbing. Either they're correct and there are enough people willing to pay literally anything for these voice acted jpegs that they render the entire rest of the playerbase meaningless, or they're wrong and intelligent systems is out of their minds.

On this I can comment, from what I've heard and read something like 95% of the income of gacha games comes from whales.  You see the giant amounts of money brought in, like Fire Emblem Heroes has brought in more money than the rest of the series combined.  The gacha model is the ultimate for making profit.  As predatory a model as it is, completely FTP players can enjoy most of the game.  Obviously PVP will favor more resources, and thus whales, but one can get to tier 21 arena or AR FTP if they are really dedicated to that.  Many have.  Probably can't rank top 50 or whatever which I assume in arena would be all 180 BST units +10 with the highest SP skills, but really what is one missing out on then?  An exclusive character?  A costume?  No some feathers, for arena assault some more refine stones, sacred coins.  

If you want competitive PVP (this isn't even true PVP cause enemy is AI controlled) this isn't the game anyways and no PVE content is really blocked/gated from FTP players much of it can even be completed by free units that everyone has.  

[Troykv]

1 hour ago, Alastor15243 said:

I just don't get why it isn't more reasonably priced. Giving a decent supply of f2p orbs is all well and good, but it doesn't change the fact that the only way you can financially support the company through this game is by voluntarily choosing to get ripped off. They might as well just have a donate button on their website for all the value they're offering back in return. If they sold more things like the BK value meal or even just sold orbs for cheaper, I might actually spend more on this. It's kind of disturbing that they believe this is a more lucrative business model, selling only to the truly spendthrifty and ignoring everyone else. 

I think that is the reason we have the monthy offers.

[Eltosian Kadath]

1 hour ago, Lewyn said:

no PVE content is really blocked/gated from FTP players much of it can even be completed by free units that everyone has.  

I will disagree slightly here, with the acquisition of blessings being inconsistent (outside of summoning many Legendary Heroes) FTP players can be locked out of some of the Blessed Garden maps due to lack of blessings (especially those that require multiple teams of Blessed units)

[Vince777]

I recall people praising FE Heroes for being pretty generous with it's summoning currency, when compared to other gacha games.

I'm pretty sure they give more orbs now than they did at launch so I wonder what happened that makes some people say the opposite now.