Tempest Trial+: To Defy the Gods (DATAMINE)

[Ice Dragon]

32 minutes ago, Tree said:

I've seen a player spell out I$ in Aether Raids structures which is a terrible design choice for defense. I really doubt IS ever got that message either.

What makes you think that message was directed towards IS? When people gripe on internet forums and chat rooms, they aren't doing it hoping IS is listening in on them, and this is no different.

[Baldrick]

I'll say this every TT - using any team you like as team 1, surrendering when there's one enemy left on the last map, then completing it with the 4* freebie on team 2 is the best way to avoid using the freebie for whatever reason. You lose less than 100 points per match, and you're at full strength.

[Tree]

44 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

What makes you think that message was directed towards IS? When people gripe on internet forums and chat rooms, they aren't doing it hoping IS is listening in on them, and this is no different.

I saw that example as a passive comment to IS even though I'm sure they know IS will never see it. I guess it could be interpreted differently. I also never considered 0 HM as a real way to communicate with IS. Sure, it's a way, "to let them know," but I also understand that they aren't really going to check it or realistically take it into consideration. Maybe I didn't word it well.

14 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

I'll say this every TT - using any team you like as team 1, surrendering when there's one enemy left on the last map, then completing it with the 4* freebie on team 2 is the best way to avoid using the freebie for whatever reason. You lose less than 100 points per match, and you're at full strength.

That's what I've often done previously, since that last map often finishes my team off. The fresh team gets full HM for each member, rather than just the survivor or two of the previous team.

@Baldrick

[edit] Wait, I didn't understand you at first. That makes much more sense than my poor suggestion of sacrificing the unit on the first round. Especially since the final match often clears out my current team anyway.

Edited March 19, 2019 by Tree

[silverserpent]

Huh...guess it's a good thing I got Bunny Alfonse during the anniversary freebies. Only bonus unit I'll have outside of Loki.

[Diovani Bressan]

6 hours ago, silverserpent said:

Huh...guess it's a good thing I got Bunny Alfonse during the anniversary freebies. Only bonus unit I'll have outside of Loki.

He is a great Axe Cavalry unit. I would say he is one of the better axe cavalry units. And he will be way better with the TT bonus stats. I was planning to use him, but I got Spring Veronica in the banner, and I don't want to use 2 green units. Maybe refine his weapon with a Spd refine to increase his Spd from 33 base to 36, or a Def refine so he can reach 34 base Def.

[Azuni]

I also got a Bulgefonse from the second free seasonal banner. Unfortunately he's +res -spd so it's hard to want to work with him even as a AA budget unit. Guess I am overflowing with Faes so I could afford to give him renewal for autoing TT.

[silverserpent]

10 hours ago, Diovani Bressan said:

He is a great Axe Cavalry unit. I would say he is one of the better axe cavalry units. And he will be way better with the TT bonus stats. I was planning to use him, but I got Spring Veronica in the banner, and I don't want to use 2 green units. Maybe refine his weapon with a Spd refine to increase his Spd from 33 base to 36, or a Def refine so he can reach 34 base Def.

if anything, I'd give him the Def refine since he's +Spd/-Def. As I don't have one to merge, that'd fix up his bane.

[Diovani Bressan]

I updated the topic:

• The TT+ name was officially revealed as "To Defy the Gods";
• The bonus units were revealed, being the 4 new Spring Heroes, Spring Loki, Spring Catria, Spring Alfonse and Spring Sharena;
•  2 of the 3 Sacred Seals were revealed: Warding Stance 1 and Spd/Res Bond 1. We still don't know what are the score required for each one.
• The Blessing of this TT+ is a Fire Blessing.

Of course the players who saw the datamine already knew about this information.

[Javi Blizz]

I’ve been trying some teams doing the Training Tower Stratum 10 for Catria and Sharena and neither of them seems good enough. I think I’ll switch to Loki as soon as I get her

[EricaofRenais]

Well I think I will use some of the TT orbs to try for Alphonse since I need more green cavs.  Hopefully he comes home on Saturday.  Anyway I am looking forward to TT.

[Vince777]

1 hour ago, Javi Blizz said:

I’ve been trying some teams doing the Training Tower Stratum 10 for Catria and Sharena and neither of them seems good enough. I think I’ll switch to Loki as soon as I get her

Don't forget the stat boost they're going to get for the Tempest Trials that you didn't get for the Training Tower.

[Javi Blizz]

2 hours ago, Vince777 said:

Don't forget the stat boost they're going to get for the Tempest Trials that you didn't get for the Training Tower.

Sure, but even then, Catria for example is requiring me to run Bladetome in her and horses with Hone/Fortify. Having all my Fortify Horses in blue units except Titania doesn’t help. And Sharena seems to doubt if she wanna be an enemy phase unit with that A skill and Res, or a Player Phase with that speed, making her fail even as a Mixed Phase Unit. Not having fodder atm to improve her kit doesn’t help either. 

 

On the other hand, I have a Klein waiting to finish Loki’s skillset asap (BB+, DB3 and her default skills, she even comes with Luna)

[Kiran_]

On 3/19/2019 at 4:24 PM, Baldrick said:

I'll say this every TT - using any team you like as team 1, surrendering when there's one enemy left on the last map, then completing it with the 4* freebie on team 2 is the best way to avoid using the freebie for whatever reason. You lose less than 100 points per match, and you're at full strength.

Or you could just optimize the first 3 and just never move the freebie (except maybe to bait an enemy and die), and don't use a Team 2.

[Othin]

On 3/19/2019 at 2:01 PM, XRay said:

She is a nuke, so she should either run Brave Bow or Firesweep Bow. Like Clarisse and FH!Takumi, her offensive stat distribution is not that great since her Atk is low and she does not have access to Assets and Flaws, but being a flier helps relieves it somewhat since she has access to Hone Fliers buff. While her Atk is a bit low, her biggest asset is her mobility, so I would still rank her as the third best archer in the game after ASS!Takumi and WOF!Hinoka.

Brave Bow is better for PvE content where Distant Counter is not very common.
Brave Bow
Reposition
Luna
(Any A that boosts Atk/Spd)
Desperation
(Any C)
Atk/Spd — Darting Blow — (Any Sacred Seal that boosts Atk/Spd)

Firesweep Bow is better for Arena and Arena Assault to shut down Distant Counter.
Firesweep Bow
Reposition
(Any Special)
Life and Death
Poison Strike — (Any B)
(Any C)
Poison Strike — (Any Sacred Seal)

For building a Player Phase flier team, it is no different from building a regular Player Phase team: you want 1-2 Brave or Firesweep archers, 1-2 Blade mages, and 1-2 Dancers/Singers.

Better than Brave Lyn? There's also Halloween Jakob as a different sort of competition, although idk how well he holds up nowadays.

[XRay]

53 minutes ago, Othin said:

Better than Brave Lyn? There's also Halloween Jakob as a different sort of competition, although idk how well he holds up nowadays.

Yes. Flier mobility is better in my opinion than cavalry mobility due to better consistency. Cavalry suffers the most in terms of being cockblocked by obstacles and that negatively impacts how effective their 3 movement is.

While RR!Loki's combat performance is a lot lower than BH!Lyn's, her better mobility more than makes up for it in my opinion.

Due to TOD!Jakob's access to Firesweep Bow, Bold Fighter, and Armor Boots, I would also rate him a little higher than BH!Lyn. Firesweep-Armor Boots give TOD!Jakob very consistent mobility and Bold Fighter gives him unrivaled combat performance.

[Tenzen12]

That doesn't feel right. 

Even now three squares moves is better then two squares of flight imho, but real difference is still stats. 

As for Jakob, I don't see Loki beating even half of units he can. 

[Ice Dragon]

8 minutes ago, Tenzen12 said:

That doesn't feel right. 

Even now three squares moves is better then two squares of flight imho, but real difference is still stats. 

As for Jakob, I don't see Loki beating even half of units he can. 

Cavalry mobility is hindered by trenches and forests, whereas flying mobility is not. Flying mobility can also move over terrain that no other movement type can move over, which is incredibly useful in maps with those types of terrain.

Fliers are also able to receive the March buff from Gray Waves, giving them 3 movement range after their first action.

Jakob has superior combat performance (and more versatility, but that doesn't affect individual builds), but inferior mobility (same mobility over all land types, but cannot move over water-like terrain). It's really just a matter of what you value more.

[Roflolxp54]

For bonus units that aren't already at max HM, there's Spring Catria (who's now +1 thanks to getting her in the first session of the banner rerun so yay!), Spring Palla, Spring Bruno, and then Spring Loki for me. Definitely going to upgrade Warding Stance and Spd/Res Bond seals.

As for Loki, I'm indifferent about her artwork. Sure, it's raunchy but to my eyes, it pales in comparison to Winter Cecilia or Valentines Titania. What I'm more woke about is the fodder she provides - Flier Formation 3 at 4*? Ooh!

As a unit, Loki has little reason to be used outside of Assault modes if the player already has built Bow Hinoka and/or Summer Takumi. And in the context of AR, Bath Cam, despite having lower BST than Loki, is better thanks to having the superior stat allocation (more Atk (especially with dagger debuffs active) and better magic bulk - better Spd is just icing on the cake). Her 31 base Atk is also nothing to write home about, either, as it pales in comparison to +Atk Leon's 37. She's a good and unique unit (as she is the only colorless bow flier that can be obtained without having to go through a summoning event) but better options exist depending on what the player already has and prioritizes.

[Tenzen12]

50 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Cavalry mobility is hindered by trenches and forests, whereas flying mobility is not. Flying mobility can also move over terrain that no other movement type can move over, which is incredibly useful in maps with those types of terrain.

Fliers are also able to receive the March buff from Gray Waves, giving them 3 movement range after their first action.

Jakob has superior combat performance (and more versatility, but that doesn't affect individual builds), but inferior mobility (same mobility over all land types, but cannot move over water-like terrain). It's really just a matter of what you value more.

mageThat is all true, but three squares of movement still beat it. It's much easier kill ranged flier  with ranged  cavalry  then vice versa. Plus with inferior stats Loki will have much harder to sweep, can't deal with DC (even Kinoka with her bow can't consistently kill armors) and get one-shot by any enemy bow. Having to avoid few threes is pretty easy trade. Same goes for Jakob, superior mobility means nothing if you can't kill enemy and armor having ridiculous enemy phase make problem of mobility irelevant.

To be honest only time when 'I find flying bow useful is difficult map with enemy flier emblem on it otherwise even with my own Flie emblem using magic is practicaly always better anyway.

Edited March 21, 2019 by Tenzen12

[Interdimensional Observer]

14 hours ago, Diovani Bressan said:

The TT+ name was officially revealed as "To Defy the Gods";

Weird name for a TT of silly rabbits. Something like an Ike/Alm/Somebody/Someone would be suited for that. How exactly do bunnies defy gods?

Angry God: "No having fun! You're supposed to be struggling through the netherworld right now!"

Brunny: "No! Funtime-Buntime!" *Flops bunny ears furiously in Angry God's face.*

Angry God: "-S-s-stop! The ears! Oh myself! The ears! So floppy! Too flop...py! Quit dangling them in front of me!"

Velvetinica: "Now comes the cottontail!"

Angry God: "I CAN'T TAKE ANYMORE! Aw shucks. I hereby demand to be worshipped by hippity hop hopping around a carrot maypole! May I bless all who shall."

[Ice Dragon]

4 hours ago, Tenzen12 said:

but three squares of movement still beat it.

No amount of cavalry movement lets you attack an enemy while standing on a water square.

 

5 hours ago, Tenzen12 said:

It's much easier kill ranged flier  with ranged  cavalry  then vice versa.

Irrelevant.

One, we're talking about ranged fliers under the player's control and ranged cavalry under the player's control. Your own ranged fliers will never fight your own ranged cavalry. If they are fighting each other, then one of them is not under your control.

Two, a head-to-head comparison is also not relevant. You don't compare Merric against Est by having them face each other (Merric will win, but Est is the better unit); you compare them by having them face the same enemies. No different when comparing any other pair of units or unit classes.

 

5 hours ago, Tenzen12 said:

Plus with inferior stats Loki will have much harder to sweep,

You can't attack something you can't reach.

 

5 hours ago, Tenzen12 said:

can't deal with DC

Firesweep Bow exists and is one of the builds currently being considered.

 

5 hours ago, Tenzen12 said:

and get one-shot by any enemy bow.

Irrelevant when comparing units on player phase, which is what these classes are being judged on.

 

5 hours ago, Tenzen12 said:

Same goes for Jakob, superior mobility means nothing if you can't kill enemy and armor having ridiculous enemy phase make problem of mobility irelevant.

As long as you deal at least 1 damage and the opponent doesn't have Null C-Disrupt, you can kill anything with Firesweep + double Poison Strike if you have enough space to work with. A ridiculous enemy phase means nothing if they can't counterattack.

 

5 hours ago, Tenzen12 said:

otherwise even with my own Flie emblem using magic is practicaly always better anyway.

Flying tome users aren't being compared here. They are irrelevant to a comparison between bow fliers and bow cavalry.

[Tenzen12]

Of course everything above is relevant. player cavalry will almost always be able run circles around flyers, while Flyers will need special maps and/or long set up to not pressured by cavalry.

Cavalry vs Cavalry is irrelevant and so is Flier vs Flier and they both  perform comparably against armors (so only stats matter). That's why only Cavalry vs Fliers count. Cavalry (player) can always run circles around Fliers(enemy), but unless map is full obstacles Flyer (player) would need considerably more  control  to ambush Cavalry (enemy).

And of course magic matter. Because flier bow is relevant only in Flyer emblem, but in Flyer emblem magic is better, while cavalry and armor bows can be used regardless of team.

 

[mampfoid]

15 hours ago, Javi Blizz said:

I’ve been trying some teams doing the Training Tower Stratum 10 for Catria and Sharena and neither of them seems good enough. I think I’ll switch to Loki as soon as I get her

I'm actually looking forward to run Catria and Sharena together with Hrid, he will double all the time thanks to the debuff theme. Fourth member will be healer, if healing isn't needed I'll switch Loki in. 

If you don't have Hrid, you could run Gunnthrá instead of Sharena. 

[Javi Blizz]

1 hour ago, mampfoid said:

I'm actually looking forward to run Catria and Sharena together with Hrid, he will double all the time thanks to the debuff theme. Fourth member will be healer, if healing isn't needed I'll switch Loki in. 

If you don't have Hrid, you could run Gunnthrá instead of Sharena. 

I’ve been thinking about running them together too. With Def Tactics SS, Sharena can buff all of the 4 stats (Rally Atk/Spd), so she can be the buffbot for Catria, while having still 2 spots in the team for a red (preferibly melee) unit and a healer

[XRay]

3 hours ago, Tenzen12 said:

Of course everything above is relevant. player cavalry will almost always be able run circles around flyers, while Flyers will need special maps and/or long set up to not pressured by cavalry.

That same argument could be turned around and used against cavalry units. I would argue that most maps we have now are far more flier friendly than cavalry friendly, and maps that are cavalry friendly are more rare and therefore more special.

3 hours ago, Tenzen12 said:

Cavalry vs Cavalry is irrelevant and so is Flier vs Flier and they both  perform comparably against armors (so only stats matter). That's why only Cavalry vs Fliers count. Cavalry (player) can always run circles around Fliers(enemy), but unless map is full obstacles Flyer (player) would need considerably more  control  to ambush Cavalry (enemy).

Most maps have a lot of obstacles. If this was 2017 with no trenches and maps had more open terrain, then yes, cavalry movement is better. But with the existence of trenches and a lot of maps now have obstacles to slow cavalry down, cavalry movement is no longer as good as it used to be.